Author Topic: Help with transducer setup for 1198 and 959  (Read 5270 times)

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Offline bigfishcurt

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Help with transducer setup for 1198 and 959
« on: April 21, 2014, 11:32:17 AM »
Looking for suggestions. I have a 1198 and 959 on the console and a 999 at the bow. The 999 is hooked up to a HDSI mounted on a Terrova with I-link. All units connected to the new ethernet switch. I have a glassed in DB transducer. The Transom has a HDSI and the DB/DI ducers mounted up high out of the high speed flow. I have the old style TS2 2 ducers to one locator's switch. Also the Y cable. I moved from a 1197 to the 1198 because I like the bigger screen for the GPS mapping. I would of gotten the new 1199 but I just bought a weather sense and the 1199 doesn't support it. I'm thinking of using the 959 for mostly the locator functions plus I have alot of built in backup systems if I have equipment issues. Do I understand correctly the DB in the DB/DI transducer isn't as good as the standard DB transducer? I'm thinking of adding a third DB transducer to the step edge on the transom. This also will be out of the high speed water flow. So this brings me to how do I set this all up. It looks like my best option would be to connect the HDSI directly to the 1198. Move my Y cable to the 959 and connect the DB/DI transducer to the SI side of the Y cable. Then hook the thru-hull DB and the standard DB to the TS2 switch. This way I will have a clean high speed reading and then switch to a full power unrestricted 2D DB when off plane. Then with networking I can add the 2D ducer to the 1198 if I want to. There may be some situations that I will get some cross talk and will have to shutdown the sonar on one of the units. Can anyone think of a better way of setting up this system. I can always add another Y splitter cable. Thanks for your help.


Offline Humminbird_Greg

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Re: Help with transducer setup for 1198 and 959
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2014, 12:18:05 PM »
bigfishcurt,
“ Do I understand correctly the DB in the DB/DI transducer isn't as good as the standard DB transducer?”
I don’t know that I would say that it is better or worse than the standard DualBeam transducer.  The transom mounted DI model transducers use a different set of frequencies and beam widths versus the standard 200/83kHz (20/60 degree beam) transducers do.  One or the other may be better suited for your application, so that may make it better for you but not always for others.

You are thinking about adding another 200/83kHz DualBeam transducer to the transom, right?
How are you wanting to use all of these transducers and units and which at the same time?
If you correctly install an inside-the-hull transducer you will have minimal signal loss.  So you could buy one of the XTM-9-WIDE-DI-20-T transducers inside-the-hull and simply things a bit.  Although made for the trolling motor it can still be installed inside-the-hull (the water temperature shown by it will be the temperature of the hull though.
Greg Walters at Humminbird
gwalters@johnsonoutdoors.com

Offline bigfishcurt

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Re: Help with transducer setup for 1198 and 959
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2014, 01:01:16 PM »
Thanks for replying Greg. The thru hull seems to be working very well. I put it in and did the prep work myself. I saw a HB pro recently and he said the transom mount was better. I saw on another thread that you said the thru-hull DB could cross talk with the HDSI DB because HDSI DB is on all the time. Maybe I could just hook up the thru-hull DB just the one leg of the TS2 and use it as an off switch? If I hook the DB/DI to the Y cable SI side splits off the DB correct? Can I leave the DB side empty? That leaves me wit the DB thru-hull on a on-off switch. And the DB in the HDSI. And unless I use a different frequency the 959 DI will cross talk with the HDSI ducer. By shutting off the sonar on one unit or the thru-hull ducer thru the switch I should be be able to gat many different workable combinations. I think. See any issues?

Offline Humminbird_Greg

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Re: Help with transducer setup for 1198 and 959
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2014, 01:41:26 PM »
bigfishcurt,
I think that any loss of sensitivity in an inside-the-hull installation can be made up for by cranking up the Sensitivity menu a little bit.  Unless I was trying to jig some type of very small jig for crappie or something like that I think you would be okay.  Yes, a transom mounted DualBeam transducer would give you the maximum sensitivity but do you really need that for your fishing?

The 2D DualBeam portion of the HDSi transducer is on all the time that the unit is running sonar – if it is still connected to the unit.  when you install the AS-Si-DB-Y cable you disconnect this part of the HDSi transducer, so it is never transmitting/receiving, only the Si sonar and water temperature are connected to the unit. So an inside-the-hull 200/83kHz transducer would not have any cross-talk.

“Maybe I could just hook up the thru-hull DB just the one leg of the TS2 and use it as an off switch?”
If you did this than whatever unit it is connected to would either have the thru-hull DB transducer connected or there would be no transducer connected to it.  The switch does not work the way you think that it is.

“If I hook the DB/DI to the Y cable SI side splits off the DB correct?”
Correct.

“Can I leave the DB side empty?”
You can but I would not do so.  That would leave the 2D sonar part of the unit not connected to anything.  This can put greater stress on the electrical components of the transmitter and possibly cause a failure to more than just this circuit.

Yes, unless you use a different frequency the 959ci HD DI unit probably will have sonar cross-talk with the 999ci HD Si unit.  You just have to make sure that the DI unit is not using the 200kHz and whichever Imaging Frequency the 999c HD Si unit is suing and you should be fine.
Greg Walters at Humminbird
gwalters@johnsonoutdoors.com

Offline bigfishcurt

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Re: Help with transducer setup for 1198 and 959
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2014, 02:03:22 PM »
Ok Greg, how would you hook this up. 959 and a 1198. DB thru-hull, DB/DI and HDSI both mounted up out of the high speed water stream. Plan on using the 1198 for GPS mostly. Some SI.

Will the planed update allow the 959 pull the SI from the 1198 or will I have to run the transom SI thru the 999 first?

Offline Humminbird_Greg

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Re: Help with transducer setup for 1198 and 959
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2014, 07:52:28 AM »
GPS can be shared across all three units so, what sonar capability do you want on each unit bigfishcurt?

The planned update for the 959ci HD units will allow it to pull the Si sonar from an Si unit (either 1198 or 999 in your case) and use it just as if it were an Si model unit.
Greg Walters at Humminbird
gwalters@johnsonoutdoors.com

Offline bigfishcurt

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Re: Help with transducer setup for 1198 and 959
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2014, 09:50:42 AM »
Since I upgraded the 1197 to a 1198 I now plan on using the 1198 for GPS most of the time. The 1197 was way to slow for GPS but a great sonar unit. The 959 will be my main sonar unit. That said there are many combinations possable. In open water situations with minimal structure the 1198 will be used more for sonar/si duties and the 959 for GPS. You have already told me what not to do. I don't want to risk damage to the electronics. I think may first option would be to connect the HDSI directly to the 1198. Connect the DB thru-hull and DB/DI to the TS2 then the 959. Or instead of the TS2 use the Y cable. Either way it seems the sonar will have to be turned off on one of the units to eliminate the crosstalk. How has this been handled when you run a DI unit next to a SI unit? How do you do this thru the network to remove crosstalk? Does the DB/DI need to be shut off to get clean SI on the 959?

Offline Humminbird_Greg

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Re: Help with transducer setup for 1198 and 959
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2014, 12:56:33 PM »
You would just have to pick different frequencies to use between the 959ci DI unit and 1198c SI unit.  One example could be:
959ci HD DI uses the 455kHz frequency for both its 2D sonar and for the Di sonar.
1198c Si uses the 200kHz for its 2D sonar and 800kHz for its Si/Di sonar.

Once the 6.900/6.940 software is released for these two units you will have additional Ethernet sonar options.

Greg Walters at Humminbird
gwalters@johnsonoutdoors.com

Offline bigfishcurt

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Re: Help with transducer setup for 1198 and 959
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2014, 01:36:09 PM »
Greg thanks for the help. For now I plan to start with the TS2 switch. That way I can shut down the DB/DI ducer. I think that will give me more control when I want to play with the big unit. At least it's a place to start.  I can always reconfigure things as I learn on how things work together and what gives me the best information in different situations. The network selections may have options I haven't thought of yet.

Offline bigfishcurt

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Re: Help with transducer setup for 1198 and 959
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2014, 06:01:57 AM »
Greg a few more questions. I hooked up the units last night and made everything look nice. A few more questions, I see the 959 transducer is the 200/455Hz. On the other side of the TS2 switch I connected the 200/83Hz DB thats mounted thru-hull. That is my high speed sonar. Now when I switch between the two do I have to reset the transducer type in the menu? If I have the 200/455 set at 200Hz and flip the switch will it read the 200Hz side of the 200/85 DB without doing anything else? I see that you can change the transducer type, say to the Dual beam and the frequency choices change in the frequency selection menu to the 200, 200/85, or 85. How about picking up the sonar from another unit through the network thats of another type. Will it just read as is or do you need to match the recieving unit transducer type with that of the transducer on unit you are viewing through the network? In the network list if the 959 is connected to the 200/85 dualbeam it still lists it as a 959 200/455Hz. I'm guessing the network can't cant recognize transducers only head units? I hope this isn't too many questions at once.

Offline Humminbird_Greg

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Re: Help with transducer setup for 1198 and 959
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2014, 08:11:16 AM »
bigfishcurt,
The DI units use the DI sonar to read the water depth if you are using the default menu settings.  So with the default menu settings you will also have to change the Connected Transducer menu whenever you toggle the TS2-W Switch.

Now, if you were to change the Digital Depth Source menu to the “2D Element” setting, the unit should read the water depth when connected to either transducer (but only the 200kHz sonar, not the 83kHz sonar).  However, I would still recommend changing the Connected Transducer menu setting as the unit would be transmitting on the DI sonar connections without a load being there which could cause a failure.

Right, the network can’t recognize transducers, only units.
Greg Walters at Humminbird
gwalters@johnsonoutdoors.com

Offline bigfishcurt

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Re: Help with transducer setup for 1198 and 959
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2014, 09:42:43 AM »
Greg, how does the 959 DI unit handle things if I used the Y cable instead of the switch. I'm thinking it would turn of the 200/455Hz 2D stuff on the DI transducer and leave the 455/800Hz DI. But the 200/85Hz ducer would be on the 2D leg. Would I still have to change the connected transducer to get the DB out of the 200/85Hz transducer? Default settings would only allow the 200Hz 2D - correct?

 I don't think you answered my question about when you pull the sonar from other networked units. Do you have to change the connected transducer type on the receiving unit? Does the sonar have to be turned on in the receiving unit? In other words can I have the sonar off on the 959 and pull the sonar from the 1198 through the network? Or reversed?

Offline Humminbird_Greg

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Re: Help with transducer setup for 1198 and 959
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2014, 09:41:57 AM »
Sorry for the delay in replying here but I had to speak with an Engineer before replying on the network stuff.

If you used the AS-Si-DB-Y cable you would technically be making a DI transducer with 200/83kHz 2D sonar capability.  This is what the XTM-9-WIDE-DI-20-T transducer is (though it is meant for trolling motor mounting it can be epoxied inside-the-hull of a boat).

Yes, you would still need to make a Connected Transducer menu change if you set it up this way but only once when you originally set it up.

When you set up a different type of sonar on the network, the menus in the receiving unit will automatically change.  Example: (when the software is available) if you decide you want to view the Sonar from your 1198c Si unit on your 959ci HD DI unit, you set the Si sonar in the networking menu and the 959ci HD Di unit basically turns into a 959ci HD Si unit with all of the menus and Views of an Si model unit.

The sonar on the receiving unit can be turned off and still it will be able to receive sonar data from an Ethernet connected transducer.
Greg Walters at Humminbird
gwalters@johnsonoutdoors.com

Offline bigfishcurt

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Re: Help with transducer setup for 1198 and 959
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2014, 10:07:45 AM »
Thanks for the extra work there to answer my questions. At first pass being able to turn off the sonar on one unit and still view sonar off the network seems like a good thing. It would help eliminate cross talk and protect the electronics by not transmitting without a load. I don't know of the advantages of the higher frequency 2D sonar yet. New to me. Most of my experence is with the 200/85Hz setup for wider beam in the shallower waters. I think I will leave it setup on the TS2 switch and be mind full of resetting the tranducer type until I see if the higher fequency 2D has any value to me. If not I can just switch to the Y cable from the TS2 to always have the highspeed thru-hull connected and in play. I think I have gained enough knowledge to know how things work and what to look for. I just need to get on the water and figure out what works best for me. 8)

Offline Humminbird_Greg

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Re: Help with transducer setup for 1198 and 959
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2014, 11:10:31 AM »
"I just need to get on the water and figure out what works best for me"

You are exactly right!
Let us know what you final set-up is and why you chose it.  This may help others that come across this post.
Greg Walters at Humminbird
gwalters@johnsonoutdoors.com

Offline bigfishcurt

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Re: Help with transducer setup for 1198 and 959
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2014, 11:17:14 AM »
That made me think, what tranducer type would I set the 959 to if I used the Y cable? The 2D leg would have the 2D 200/85Hz. And the Si leg would have the DI. ::)

Offline Humminbird_Greg

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Re: Help with transducer setup for 1198 and 959
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2014, 11:31:50 AM »
There is a menu setting for a DI transducer with 200/83kHz 2D sonar called “DI 200/83”.
Greg Walters at Humminbird
gwalters@johnsonoutdoors.com


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