Author Topic: Ehrler's use of XNT-9-DI-T transducer with 1198?  (Read 104697 times)

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Offline rnvinc

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Re: Ehrler's use of XNT-9-DI-T transducer with 1198?
« Reply #200 on: August 16, 2013, 08:56:14 AM »
For now I think I will just continue with this thread (as its tied to the experimental xducer setup started with Brent's setup)...

Ok...so I was finally able to get some time off from work to do some initial on the water testing of the new experimental LowBird setup...

I basically built a Y cable that splits the LSS 2 SideScan piezo elements from the DownScan piezo element and plugs directly into my HB TS3 switch...(basically a "plug and play" Y cable to run a LSS 2 on a HB)...

This setup allows me to select SideScan separately from DownScan (dedicated DI) from the LSS 2 with the HB TS3 switch running to my HB 1197c SI Combo...i

I will post some screenshots later when I get them put together in "forum ready fashion"...

But I wanted to give some initial thoughts of my findings so far running the LSS 2 on my HB....

1st (and most important to me) ...was comfirming that it is possible to identify and splice all the correct wires into the correct configuration to actually be able to make a "plug and play" Y cable that separates the LSS 2 SideScan elements from the single DownScan element.....and it operate correctly on a HB SI unit...

2nd...the SI image quality of the LowBird LSS 2 setup seems marginally better than the HDSI Side Imaging setup..but more importantly...the LowBird LSS 2 SideScan has better "Sensitivity" adjustability....meaning the LSS 2 can be ran at a lower sensitivity setting to get the same brightness level needed with the HDSI....(this is beneficial because there are times that the HDSI sensitivity had to be ran "maxed out" at 800kHz on a mud bottom to get enough brightness to suit me...the LowBird LSS 2 still had 5 clicks adjustability before max)....

3rd...the LowBird LSS 2 DownScan stills needs more experiments...there is definate improvement in target echo returns compared to the "DI from SI" of the HDSI ...but I'm still getting a DI "double echo" phenomenon that I have to figure out...(I'm not sure yet if it is caused by the HB unit image post processing or from the extra large sound wave sidelobes created by the longer array in the LSS 2 as mentioned previously by Rickard)....

What I find most interesting with the LowBird LSS 2 Y cable is the ease of experimenting with different xducer configurations with simple "plug and play" capability ...I now have several options of which xducer and which piezoes I want to run thru which feature of the HB SI unit...

Oh...and by the way...I also experimented with 1 HDSI xducer rotated 60░ clockwise linked with a 2nd HDSI xducer rotated 60░ counterclockwise on a AS SILR Y cable to see what the blended DI from SI would be from 2 separate HDSI piezo elements pointed straight down together....interesting results but that's a topic for later....

Right now I'm using LSS 2 SideScan on 1 leg of the HB TS3 switch and the HB XTM 9 WIDE DI 20 T dedicated DI xducer on the 2nd leg of the HB TS3 switch ....

LSS 2 SideScan and HB dedicated DI on my 1197c SI Combo....pretty cool...

I'll get some screenshots up soon...

Rickie
« Last Edit: August 16, 2013, 09:27:32 AM by rnvinc »


Offline Rickard

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Re: Ehrler's use of XNT-9-DI-T transducer with 1198?
« Reply #201 on: August 17, 2013, 06:10:58 AM »
Impressive work Rickie!
The double echo issue is puzzling. Is this unique to the DI array in the LSS-2, or does it appear also when an SI array is used in the DI channel?
If I would guess, I think the setup with DI from SI with two rotated SI arrays pointing in the same direction will result in very sharp main beam, but also strong sidelobes and therefore a visible triple image phenomenon. This should happen if the transducers are lined up one behind the other. If the transducers are mounted parallell with each other the along track resolution should be the same as with a single transducer, but there will appear stripes/ridges sideways.
I think....
Rickard

Offline rnvinc

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Re: Ehrler's use of XNT-9-DI-T transducer with 1198?
« Reply #202 on: August 19, 2013, 06:42:36 AM »
I'm still compiling forum worthy screenshots from the new LSS 2 setup on my 1197c SI Combo...
 
In the meantime...here are the diagrams for the new "LowBird Y cable" pinout and the "LSS 2 on 1197" setup configuration to get this all to work...
 

http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr134/rnvinc/LSS%202/LowBirdYcablepinountpng_zps3e41e240.png
 

http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr134/rnvinc/LSS%202/LSS2cablingdiagrampng_zps742dd058.png
 
It may be important to note here the parts I used to build the "LowBird Y cable".....
 
*1 Female end of Lowrance 9 pin EX-10BLK xducer extension cable part no...00099-006
http://www.amazon.com/Lowrance-10EX-BLK-Extension-Cable-Transducer/dp/B00DP0A92G/ref=sr_1_fkmr2_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1376919154&sr=8-3-fkmr2&keywords=lowrance+xt+10blk
 
*Male end of 2 separate HB AS T Y cables part no....720075-1
http://store.humminbird.com/products/465356/AS_T_Y
 
It's also important to note here that I chose the HB AS T Y cable because it had 2 completely separate bare wires for ground/drain....(both bare wire ground/drains tied to the same #7 center pin in the HB cable connector end...)
 
This allowed me to have a separate ground/drain wire for each leg of the "LowBird Y cable"...(1 each for the SI path sonar data and 1 each for the DI path sonar data)...
 
The benefit of this setup using the HB TS3 switch is to be able to completely isolate the LSS 2 SideScan element(2) operation from the LSS 2 DownScan element(1) operation...(Even a Lowrance unit cannot do this sonar isolation)...
 
Another point I want to bring up is the importance of keeping all the shielding foil intact to use in the construction of the "LowBird Y cable"...
 
The Lowrance XT 10BLK cable has foil shielding around pairs (except the Temp channel)...and a main foil shielding around all wires....
The HB AS T Y cables have foil shielding around all wires except the bare ground/drain...
 
After I had the Y cable constructed to the point of all the smaller foil shielding being re-applied...
*I used the bare wire of the Lowrance XT 10BLK to wrap around the completed wire bundle supplying the SI leg of the "LowBird Y cable"...
*I stripped the insulation from the black wire of the Lowrance XT 10BLK and wrapped the now bare wire around the completed wire bundle supplying the DI leg of the "LowBird Y cable...
 
*Then I used the main foil shielding of the Lowrance XT 10BLk to wrap the entire wire collection wire bundle up to the point where the "LowBird Y cable" split into separate legs for the SI and the DI....
 
I also used "double layer heat shrink" on most all connections.....
*The "1st layer" heat shrink tubing I used regular heat shrink tubing insulation over the soldered connections ...(Lowrance channel to HB channel soldered connections)
*Then I used a "2nd layer" heat shrink tubing (with EMI/RFI construction) over the "1st layer" heat shrink tubing....
http://www.mcmaster.com/#heat-shrink-tubing/=o4s5g4
 
It was a very interesting project...
 
Rickie

 
 
 
 
 
 
« Last Edit: August 19, 2013, 07:36:08 AM by rnvinc »

Offline Rickard

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Re: Ehrler's use of XNT-9-DI-T transducer with 1198?
« Reply #203 on: August 19, 2013, 11:56:45 AM »
Whew!
I think I can grasp the logic in this system.... for a second at a time!  :)  Really impressive. I have one question, do you really need two separate HB Dual beam transducers as indicated in the lower wiring diagram?
 
Rickard

Offline rnvinc

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Re: Ehrler's use of XNT-9-DI-T transducer with 1198?
« Reply #204 on: August 19, 2013, 06:16:07 PM »
Whew!
I think I can grasp the logic in this system.... for a second at a time!  :)  Really impressive. I have one question, do you really need two separate HB Dual beam transducers as indicated in the lower wiring diagram?
 
Rickard


Rickard...

My goal was to have a Y cable setup that completely separates (and isolates) the LSS 2 SideScan function from the DownScan function...and have the setup easily selectable (with the HB TS3 switch)..so that during fishing I wouldn't have to plug and unplug cables to select SideScan from DownScan...

The HB TS3 switch allows this selection/isolation with 1 toggle switch...

Right now I'm using 1 HDSI to supply 200/83 for 1 leg of the sonar path ...
And 1 XTM 9 WIDE DI 20 T to supply 200/83 for the other leg of the sonar path...

My LSS 2, HDSI, and XTM 9 WIDE DI 20 T are all mounted together anyway on my deployable bracket so the choice of xducer's is not unhandy at all...except that I don't want the inconvenience of plugging and unplugging while I'm fishing...

Do you see another cabling setup possibility that would accomplish my goals without the use of 2 separate 200/83 HB Dual Beam xducers...??



Rickie

Offline Rickard

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Re: Ehrler's use of XNT-9-DI-T transducer with 1198?
« Reply #205 on: August 20, 2013, 03:51:18 AM »
Quote
Do you see another cabling setup possibility that would accomplish my goals without the use of 2 separate 200/83 HB Dual Beam xducers...??
Yes, I think there are possibilities. The HB Dual beam wires in the AS SIDB Y cables could be joined and connected to the same Dual beam transducer. This means more cutting and soldering. Depending on the position of the TS 3 switch one cable leg will be a "loose end". This solution is not very attractive. Instead, you could plug the SI and DI paths in the Lowbird Y-cable directly to the TS 3 switch and add a AS SIDB Y cable between the TS 3 switch and the unit. Connect the TS 3 to SI/DI leg, and the HB Dual beam transducer to the other leg of this AS SIDB Y cable.
I may have missed something, though......
 
Rickard

Offline rnvinc

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Re: Ehrler's use of XNT-9-DI-T transducer with 1198?
« Reply #206 on: August 20, 2013, 04:02:29 AM »
That is very interesting...

Although I'm definately not afraid of cutting wires for the 1st scenario...I think the second scenario is very doable....

I will experiment with this and post results...

I still need to get out anyway for more tests on the LowBird DownScan...

Thanks Rickard
« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 04:05:39 AM by rnvinc »

Offline rnvinc

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Re: Ehrler's use of XNT-9-DI-T transducer with 1198?
« Reply #207 on: August 20, 2013, 04:08:56 AM »
I forgot to mention during my tests on the water...I captured some short recordings of the LowBird DownScan...set at 200kHz, 200/83kHz, and 83kHz...

The DownScan double image phenomenon is in the Humviewer recording also....

I have some more ideas to try the next time out...

I still want to record the SideScan and then view the blended DI from SI in Humviewer ...

And I also may try rotating the LSS 2 60░ to use the right element for a DownScan trial....

Rickie
« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 04:13:02 AM by rnvinc »

Offline Trytoofish

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Re: Ehrler's use of XNT-9-DI-T transducer with 1198?
« Reply #208 on: November 03, 2014, 10:31:37 AM »
Ricki
Have you any more info on this. What did you choose as best DI. Any as good as the competition?
Thanks
Try Too Fish  Forced To Work

Offline rnvinc

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Re: Ehrler's use of XNT-9-DI-T transducer with 1198?
« Reply #209 on: November 03, 2014, 05:25:53 PM »
I have no new experiments other than the ones listed in this thread ...(Too busy designing a Deployable bracket for the bow 360)...

I will mention that the HDSI rotated at 60░ seems to obtain the best DI images of the experiments I conducted on my 1197 ...

Is this DI as good as a dedicated DI unit ... No ... (I feel this is because a dedicated DI unit has specific software and algorithms to render DI images ... My 1197 only has programming to render "DI from SI" )...

Are the DI images good enough to go to the trouble of multiple xducers and Y cables and such ... ??... Absolutely ...
 
My next experiment (when I get time) ... Will be building a custom Y cable to use the ONIX xducer on my 1197...

Rickie
« Last Edit: November 03, 2014, 05:28:40 PM by rnvinc »

Offline kosmo

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Re: Ehrler's use of XNT-9-DI-T transducer with 1198?
« Reply #210 on: November 03, 2014, 06:02:44 PM »
I have no new experiments other than the ones listed in this thread ...(Too busy designing a Deployable bracket for the bow 360)...

I will mention that the HDSI rotated at 60░ seems to obtain the best DI images of the experiments I conducted on my 1197 ...

Is this DI as good as a dedicated DI unit ... No ... (I feel this is because a dedicated DI unit has specific software and algorithms to render DI images ... My 1197 only has programming to render "DI from SI" )...

Are the DI images good enough to go to the trouble of multiple xducers and Y cables and such ... ??... Absolutely ...
 
My next experiment (when I get time) ... Will be building a custom Y cable to use the ONIX xducer on my 1197...

Rickie
Rickie, when you do your experimenting using an onix  transducer  on your 1197 I would like to offer the use of a 998 unit touse also just to compare the  algorithms between the two softwares.
  I think the results could be interesting

Offline rnvinc

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Re: Ehrler's use of XNT-9-DI-T transducer with 1198?
« Reply #211 on: November 03, 2014, 06:24:59 PM »
Rickie, when you do your experimenting using an onix  transducer  on your 1197 I would like to offer the use of a 998 unit touse also just to compare the  algorithms between the two softwares.
  I think the results could be interesting

I agree kosmo ...

I will contact you when I have the Y cable built ...

Rickie

Offline kosmo

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Re: Ehrler's use of XNT-9-DI-T transducer with 1198?
« Reply #212 on: November 03, 2014, 11:01:21 PM »
I agree kosmo ...

I will contact you when I have the Y cable built ...

Rickie
ok...     

Offline jimham82

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Re: Ehrler's use of XNT-9-DI-T transducer with 1198?
« Reply #213 on: January 06, 2015, 12:15:36 PM »
I have the DI transducer installed and have the transducer switch to go between the SI and DI transducers.   The DI images are much better than the ones using the SI transducer.   Yes, it works with 1198, 1197 and 899.   This picture of crappie in the tree was made with my 1197.


Offline rnvinc

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Re: Ehrler's use of XNT-9-DI-T transducer with 1198?
« Reply #214 on: January 06, 2015, 07:45:58 PM »
Very good image Jim ...

Which DI xducer did you use for your setup ...

Did you use an additional 200/83 xducer with the AS SIDB Y cable ...??

Rickie


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