Topic: 899 SI - Depth not reading

[jworks]

I'm wondering if anyone has had issue with the 899 (or any side-imaging unit) not reading the depth once the boat is plane.  The readout works fine at slower speeds but at 15 mph or higher it goes to 0.  Is this characteristic of any unit with side-imaging?  A guy at HB customer service told me "the 899 is a SI unit.  If you want to read the depth at high speed you need to get the Y - splitter cable and put a another transducer shooting through the hull".  Its a Key West 17 1/2 center console boat transom mounted with a HD ducer.

[Humminbird_Greg]

Welcome to the Humminbird Side imaging Forums jworks.

Yes, we have heard of this.  You have the transducer mounted where air is getting underneath it when the boat gets on plane.  If you could move the Si transducer to a location that does not air underneath it at high boat speeds and will also allow for unblocked Si sonar to both sides and will not expose it to possibly getting knocked off… than you would not need the second transducer and Y-cable.  Many fiberglass boat owners who use Side Imaging units go the XP-9-20 transducer and AS-Si-DB-Y cable route so that they can better position the Si transducer for Si sonar or just to protect it from damage.

[jworks]

Greg, I have another older sonar still on this boat.  It's ducer is mounted to the right of the new HD SI transducer on the starboard side.  See 3 photos attached. The new HD SI transducer is lower than the old one by about two inches, so I'd think its not in the way of side-imaging.   The old unit reads fine at any speed yet its at a higher elevation.  Well, let me say this though.  At one time the older one was reading spasmodically too.  It went way up into the hundreds of ft. but the water was no more than 15 ft deep.  I'm trying to recall here...but maybe they both read way up.  Then the old one started reading correctly.  The newer HD SI went to 0 , as I previously stated.  It had never done that before.  I've been on the water only 2 times, been too cold.  First time I didn't notice the new 899 not reading a digital depth, but maybe I was so concentrated on the new side imaging.  Before I went to the water this 2nd trip I leveled out the new transducer from the way it was installed because I thought the rear side of it had too much of a tilt downward.  Maybe my "leveling it out some" was the problem.  I'm guessing here.  When I got home I moved the HD ducer back like it was by tilting the tail down just a tad more.  Maybe next time I'm out I should try it again before I mess around drilling more holes.  Or, just running the new HD SI by itself and leave the new one off....ya think ?? 

[jworks]

2nd view

[jworks]

3rd view

[Humminbird_Greg]

jworks,
Lowering the backend of a transducer is one adjustment that can help a sonar system read better at high boat speeds.  I would try running your boat as is now since you moved the angle of the transducer again.

[jworks]

That's what I'll do first, yes.

[sonar2000]

HB is known to have depth issues when over trolling speeds and using the "bigfoot" mounted transducer.  You can search this forum and find post concerning mounting related concerns with placement and speeds..Most use a shoot thru the hull for speed depths.  Another possibility is the skimmer transducer next to the hb transducer. This can cause bubbles at speed and interfere with the HB readings since sonar operates in water and not air... I would separate then a bit...chuck

[jworks]

Thanks Chuck.  This is my first time at side-imaging. I'm learning a lot I didn't know before I bought it.  For one thing I've been reading quite a few posts about having to tweak it for whatever you're doing.  Ex:  chart speed should match trolling speed, sensitivity settings can change from one time to another, using 455 or 800, and the beat goes on.  Sort of like comparing a space shuttle to a Cessna.  I'm not sure if I'd have bought this if I'd known all that has to be done to get the best results, which I'm sure it can be done once one is use to it.  Its a lot more to it than the standard sonars before HDSI came out.  Now, I learn that others are having an issue with a simple thing such as getting a bottom reading above 10 mph.  Frustrating stuff, that may have well been a deal-killer if known in the buying stage.  Not likely it will be a deal-killer though now that I have it.  Too late for that, and $1k down.
Besides, before side-imaging, I've never caught fish or watched the bottom for structure going fast anyway.  Likely, what I'll do is take the boat (and the allen wrench)to the lake soon and try it since I've tilted the ducer down.  If it works, fine.  If not, try another adjustment angle.  I would think after one day of that I'll know whether I want to move the old ducer over some as you suggest (or just take it off completely).  Hate to think about drilling yet more holes in the transom.  But, I might.  Not going to get hasty making decisions now.

The people on these forums are good.  Everybody wants to be of help if they can.  And that's a good thing.  It is much appreciated, especially new to SI as I am. 

[Bob B]

Once you start to see more of what you can find with SI .... You would never go back...... You just have to get past the learning and interpretation curve.

[jworks]

Bob, thanks.  I appreciate that a lot !  I needed that.  Sounds like the voice of experience talking there.  Straight, solid and to the point.  You must have a sales background .  That's meant as a compliment not an insult

[Bob B]

Thanks.......Actually, I have a Tech background....And keeping up to speed on Humminbird and a few forums has become kind of a hobby....Instead of watching some of the TV shows the wife likes and I hate. .....Glad the info helped.

[jworks]

I know what you mean about the tv shows.  My wife likes all those crime shows.  I can't stand them.  And then there's Murder She Wrote.  If I ever saw that old woman I'd run the other way.  Every where she goes somebody's dead. 

I've had only this one incident about the digital depth.  It may be just that I moved the angle of the ducer thinking I was doing right, and did wrong.  Then again, you all say its a common issue with the SI units.  I'm sure based on what I've read I'll get use to it and tweak it to my liking.  I've only been out twice and mostly fishing and didn't really concentrate on playing with it.  It'll all work out.

[jworks]

Greg, I went out today and it still read incorrectly.  So I tilted the rear end of the ducer down a little more.  It reads now even at top speed which is 40 for my boat.  Sometimes though, it still goes into a shallow mode reading 1 ft and changing up and down to , say, 8, 12, 20, 14....not reading the real depth.  This lake is very very deep.  200 ft.+.  I even stopped the boat in water over 100 ft deep and it would read 1 ft, then maybe 12, 40, 140, back to 12 and down to 1.  I got the impression the computer was confused so I waited to see if it would straighten itself out.  If in fact it was "confused" my guess would be air bubbles.  But even sitting dead still I wouldn't think it would have air bubbles on the ducer.  I eventually restored factory default settings, turned the unit off, then back on.  It read fine then.  It was about 140 ft.  As I accelerated it read fine for a while then back to that pattern.  If it was getting air bubbles I cant understand why it would read 1 ft sitting dead still in the water.  I have not yet tried taking the old ducer off the transom to see if somehow it was interfering with the water flow.  Its 2" higher and to the side than the HD ducer.  I'll try that next.  But at least now the digital read is working at faster speeds.....part of the time.  One other thing.  Maybe this will shed some light on the matter.  My old sonar started flashing the depth which I think indicates that it lost signal from the bottom.  Never seen that before.  When I turned it on, no matter where I went in the lake it would flash 186 ft and not change off of that.  That unit is an Eagle 350.

[Humminbird_Greg]

jworks,
Try running only one sonar unit at a time.  Some of what you may be seeing is sonar-to-sonar interference since I bet both units are using the same 200kHz frequency.

Try adjusting the Surface Clutter menu to help with the 899 locking up on the 1 foot readings.  Once they lose the bottom reading, they do not always automatically recover.  You may also want to try updating the software and/or switching the unit to the Saltwater Deep setting (Water Type menu) to help with near surface sonar reflections.

It may just be that your transducer installation is on the hairy edge and a little more tweaking will help it work better or you may have to change to the inside-the-hull transducer and Y-cable to get the performance you want on your boat.

[jworks]

Greg, there definitely was a lot of surface clutter that day, for sure.  There was a band of tiny dots all across the top of the DI screen that was quite thick.  I wouldn't know how to gauge what's considered thick, but it appeared thick to me.  I noticed that and tried changing the surface clutter settings but it didn't get rid of it or change it in any way.  I can understand your suggestion about both units being on 200 kHz -- sounds like a valid point.  I'll check that on the old unit.  I can see that that could be an issue, but I did try just the 899 by itself.  Same result.  I think what you said about tweaking to get what I'm expecting is probably right. 

"Once they lose the bottom reading, they do not always automatically recover".  Thanks for telling me that.  I guessed right on that, it looked to me like it was confused.
" try updating the software ".  I need to do that.  I think what I have now is 7.02.  I think the newest update is 7.46. 

[Humminbird_Greg]

jworks,
The Surface Clutter menu will not work for the Si/Di sonar, just the 2D sonar.  If you saw a lot of surface clutter in the Si/Di sonar, it was also there in the 2D sonar.

Correct on the 7.460 software for your 899 unit.

[jworks]

Ok.  Got it.  Thanks Greg.