Topic: My Transducer Installation - Lund 1700

[MTBob]

What I've heard from you'all is that there is no perfect first time installation for a SI transducer.  Apparently, the SI transducer needs to be adjusted to fit the boat conditions and it's a bit picky how it's set.  So, rather than guessing at hole placement and probable re-re-drilling, I decided to make an adjustable mount.  My objective in making this mount is to be able to move the head up & down, and rotate it to match the water line.
First, I had to deal with a water inlet screen that is mounted at the very bottom of the boat's transom.  After a bit of measuring and fiddling I decided to cut out the lower half of the inlet screen.  Actually what I did was use a die grinder cut off wheel to cut the screen on the lower half and wrap it back into itself.  I then placed a small piece of plastic over the lower half of the screen mounting, as these photos show.  It should have more than enough screen and pipe cross section to feed water to the live wells.




I used a 3 1/2" mounting board to mount the 2 transducers and used aluminum circular mounting plates to provide adjustability.  The mounting plate for the SI transducer fits into a milled recess in the plastic board.  I did this to get the transducer as close to the transom as possible, yet clear the inlet screen.  The back of the transducer is just below the line of sight with the lower half of the plastic plate on the inlet screen.  The other transducer is mounted similarly, but higher than the SI transducer.  But, the circular plate on this transducer is mounted on the face of the plastic board instead of in a recess.  In both assemblies the circular plates are held in place with aluminum compression strips screwed to the board.  Using this design I am able to not only move the transducers up & down, but also rotate them to match the water line. This is a temporary setting, I haven't put sealant on the board & screws, nor are the transducers initially set quite right.
One of the questions I have is whether I'll get the infamous rooster tail from this set up.  I'm thinking about placing a small deflection plate just in front of the SI transducer.  I may also install a transducer saver once they are available again.









Side view showing the clearance and positioning of the SI transducer.  I can adjust it up/down or rotate it to adjust for boat position when I get it in the water.


One of the questions I have is whether I'll get the infamous rooster tail.  I'm thinking about placing a small deflection plate just in front of the SI transducer.  I may also install a transducer saver once they are available again.

[RGecy]

Bob,

Very Nice!  That is nice work!

One of the questions I have is whether I'll get the infamous rooster tail.  I'm thinking about placing a small deflection plate just in front of the SI transducer.  I may also install a transducer saver once they are available again.

As for the roostertail, Probably so!  HB has a plug that fits in there now.  The deflector plate would work also, but the plug would be cleaner.  Call HB and see if they will send you one.

Robert

[newkid4si]

 MTBob
   That is the nicest install I've seen. Well thought out.
   Congratulations.

               Mike

[short grub]

 
 I have to agree with the rest here ......... that is the best install I too have ever seen

very nice job, I want to know how it works out ......... I might need to do the same thing to mine,  keep us updated please

[ITGEEK]

Very innovative install.
Nice work.

[MTBob]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the feedback.  Since I've never installed this system before, this is literally making it up as I go.
Like Short Grub said, let's see how this works out.  The aluminum rotation plates seem pretty solid - more solid than the two screws that hold the mounting board to the transom.  When I drilled the mounting holes I was expecting to hit a solid transom filler, probably plywood.  But, no - seems like it's just empty space behind the aluminum sheet at those two screw locations.  So, I may add a couple more screws.  Then, when I add sealant I'll add a bead around the screw holes, all along the perimeter of the board on the back side, and seal the edge joint.  I'm going to use Boat Life LifeSeal - recommendation of a local Lund dealer.  I suspect the sealant will have more holding power than the screws - hopefully.
Now on to my next challenge - figuring out how to mount the GPS in a place where it won't get whacked, but still has eye's in the sky.

[RGecy]

Try to keep the GPS as close to the transducer as possible.  It will give you more accurate waypoints when marking structure.

Robert

[MTBob]

Robert: Good tip, thanks.  I'm thinking about mounting the GPS like this -  I'd locate it on the gunwale near the transom.  I would prefer the starboard side, that is the side opposite from the transducer location.  So, the GPS would be about 4 feet +/- from the transducer.  If it needs to be on the port side, nearer the transducer, I will have to run the cable across the boat at the transom - something I'd like to avoid if possible.
I'm thinking of making a flat aluminum mounting plate for the bottom of the GPS.  Then, using velcro, I would attach it to the gunwale when I'm fishing.  All other times it would be removed and stored in a nearby compartment (leaving the cable connected). 
Also, as protection from getting stepped on, whacked, etc. I'm thinking of placing the GPS inside a piece of PVC pipe mounted to the aluminum plate.  The pipe section would be cut off about the same height as the GPS dome and act as a collar around the unit.  This way the GPS would be able to see "up". but have a surrounding wall to protect it.  I'm also curious whether I could cover the PVC with a thin piece of polycarbonate plastic (tough stuff) and still get good GPS signal strength.  That way the whole GPS unit would be protected in a hard shell.

Bob

[newkid4si]

 "All other times it would be removed and stored in a nearby compartment (leaving the cable connected)."

The antenna will still have power to it and will still be trying to locate the satellites.
This may cause an error message. 

[RGecy]

Bob,

That sounds like a lot of overkill to me.  I have a 23' Sea Pro that is rigged for scuba diving and going to the sand bar with the family.  I constantly have kids climbing and jumping off the boat and when diving we are always passing tanks and other heavy gear in and out.  I have never had an issue with the puck getting damaged.  They are pretty resilient.

I would recommend screwing it down tightly and just be mindful that its there.  I think you risk more damage by constantly moving it around and having the wires exposed for someone to trip on or pull loose.  If you cant get wires over to the port side, the starboard should be fine.

Robert

[MTBob]

Thanks Robert & NewKid4si - ya, I'm probably over thinking the GPS question.   

Bob

[reddog]

Im thinking you will get spray at the height you are at now.

What is the left ducer?  Is is a high speed 2D for the same unit?

Alot of the spray comes from the openings in the mounting bracket, and not a true "rooster tail" in the sense of the word.

Water jets thru the "H" opening, and hits the top side of the tranducer and launches it upwards..

I'm guessing here, but the HDSI seems to be a bit low overall.  You will have a nice picture to the left, and  some interference off the hull to the right. Not interference, per se, but air bubbles, turbulence off the keel etc. its kind of the nature of the beast, and the higher the deadrise angle, the worse it can get, but it should perform as designed.. Your right side may be slightly darker than the left, at any speed above idling.

Very ingenious mount you have there!

[MTBob]

Reddog: Thanks for the comments.  As I mentioned, placement of the transducers in the photos is temporary, just roughly setup to show the mounting.  But, I value your comments for reference when I complete the job.
Yes, the small transducer is for 2D, as suggested by HB Tech Support.  They said that it is very likely that the SI "puck" will drop its signal at high speeds - though each boat is different. 
I received a rubber plug to put in the "H" hole of the small transducer.  I did not get one for the "puck".  I'm going to call HB and see if there is a plug for it.  I may make a sheet metal piece to deflect the spray if is still a problem.
Bob

[EZM]

Is the bunk in any danger of colliding with your 2d transducer. My Lund has 2 wide bunks on each side and I'm going to need to mount my transducer plate off to either side to avoid and issues with contacting the bunk.

Here's the scenario I was concerned about - If you ever ride up your front guide yoke (final guide wheel) on the front of your trailer  (when re-loading you boat) the boat might tilt up and the transducer might contact with the bunk.

It's hard to tell how close you are in the pictures - that would be my only comment - other than that - I'm ding the same thing with 1800 Tyee.

[MTBob]

EZM - You are correct - the trailer bunk impact to the small transducer is a concern.  But, I think it will work OK, here's why.  First, the front bow stop keeps the boat from moving too far forward.  I have to really suck the winch up tight to get the bunks to hang aft more than 1/2 - 3/4" (the reason for the over hang is to make sure the bunks take the vertical load on the aft transom plate and not the bottom of the boat.  Otherwise the bunk will create an indent in the bottom of the boat just forward of the transom.).  With the small transducer mounted on a 3/4" plastic board, the transducer hangs back about 1 1/2" (need to recheck that dimension - but there is a good bit of clearance).  Further, when loading & unloading, the trailer drops away from the boat, so there shouldn't be any opportunity for the transducer to hit the bunk.  I've look at this quite a bit and it seems like it should work OK.
One thing I do need to recheck is whether the round mounting plate that I use in this design is sticking down below the bottom of the boat.  That plate needs to be above the bottom or the bunk could possibly hit it, and that would be a problem because the impact would be taken directly on the mounting board.
The other factors in mounting the small transducer where I did was driven by the rivet placement on the bottom of the boat (don't want to mount the transducer in line with the row of rivets) - and the fact that the small transducer must be mounted above the horizontal plane of the SI puck transducer.  So, if I didn't mount it were I have it, I would have had to extend the mounting board (or use 2), and move up (port direction) farther. 
Let us know how you mount your transducers on your 1800.
Bob

[EZM]

I will be using a 3/4" thick HDPE block (similar to starboard) cut to a 6"x12" (or any smaller size I choose to cut it down to) to mount my transducers similarly to what you have pictured there. The boat should be delivered in the next few weeks and i will post pictures.

My idea was to mount my SI on the inside (closest to middle) of the boat on the inside of the bunks very close to the centerline of the boat. The second transducer, on a seperate block will be positioned just outside of the bunks in a conventional location.

[MTBob]

EZM - Wow! - That's a mighty fine looking boat.  I'll bet drilling holes in your new boat will be a challenge
Just a thought - if I understand your planned placement of the SI transducer - I think HB recommends having it mounted about 15" away, starboard side, from the center line of the boat to minimize prop turbulence.  It looks like you have plenty of room for that.
I put mine on the port side since I wanted to move it way from the kicker motor.  You might want to think about that if you decide to add a kicker.
Do you have a water inlet screen at the bottom of the boat?  If so, you'll want to figure out how to let the SI puck "see" past it to get a horizontal view.
... Wow, nice boat!
Bob

[EZM]

Thanks - yes they are nice boats - this is a picture of the exact same boat (color, year, model) except mine has a Honda 150 - other than that they are identical.

Both transducers will be on the transducer plate mounted to the hull with two stainless crews and bedded in some 5200 sealer/adhesive. I'm also positioning the srews a little toward  the middle of the board, in a ways in from the edges, so i can run a bead of 5200 in a ring around the screws for a added seal. The screws will be recessed and a dab of 5200 will top them off. If that leaks I am going to be surprised.

The boards themselves, when I mount the transducers to them, of course will have 3 or 4 more holes in them but, these will not penetrate the hull. with a 3/4" thick HDPE plate - there will be plenty of structure for a small 5/8" stainless screw to bite into. I'm sure, if we need to move it up, down, left or right, the holes will only be on the board itself.

Enclosed is a picture with a push pin with the approximate location of where the holes might go. A pen is there to provide scale scale. These boards, of course, can be cut down to any size or shape on a table saw as the material is 3/4" plactic and easy to cut.

Regarding the location of the transducers - I thought the same thing about turbulance. Here are my thoughts;

1) Mount the high speed transducer from one of my 858's about 15" away from the centerline so there will be no turbulance from the prop at high speed high thrust. This is the transducer that will work when i'm cruising from spot to spot on the lake.

2) The SI transducer (off the 898) can be mounted pretty close to the centerline but will be only active and/or used at low speeds where the turbulance and thrust from the main motor is minimal. I see many guys mounting their Si ducer very close to the centerline to provide the best unobstructed view (and to avoid things likr the screens/overflow ports/plugs etc.)

Hopefully that should work - if not - it's not a big deal to move the transducers around a bit the bigger board in a matter of minutes with no new holes in the boat. This particular product can also be sealed up and sanded so you can pretty up the unsightly holes if you like.

[MTBob]

EZM: Sounds like a good plan.  One of my thoughts about placing the SI puck away from the centerline (up the deadrise) is to give it a little bit of clearance to the absolute bottom of the boat - such that the bottom of the boat would likely impact a lake bottom before the SI transducer does.  I'm not sure it's all that important, but it does give the SI puck some minimal clearance to the bottom.
Something you might want to investigate is use of 3M 5200.  Google it and check out what other boat forums say about it - it is nearly a permanent sealant and many (most?) folks shy away from it.  If fact, a number of boat shops absolutely will not use it because it is so tough to remove.  Using 5200, your plastic board will be permanently mounted to the boat.  I've used the stuff on an RV and it is, indeed, really really tough stuff.  I'm using Boat Life, LifeSeal at the recommendation of a Lund dealer.

[MTBob]

I called HB Tech and asked to get a rubber plug for the SI Transducer mount to block water spray (like the one that comes with the 2D smaller transducer).  They told me that they don't have one for the SI unit (puck).  They said that there shouldn't be that much spray if it is installed "properly", i.e. not too low in the water.
OK, I'll see how it works and then make something if needed.
On another minor note: I asked the Tech Rep why HB didn't send a fuse holder with the unit, since the installation instructions require that one be installed.  Answer: "they just don't include one".  That seems kinda cheezy considering the cost of the unit.  OK, I'll go to town and buy one.

[Humminbird_Greg]

MTBob,
The decision was made a long time ago to stop including in-line fuse holders.  I’m sure that cost cutting was a part of this decision but also was the fact that most boats started having fuse blocks already installed in them where they didn’t years before that (or did not have an open circuit if they had one).

Now days just about every boat comes from the factory with a fuse block.  Though the best electrical installation would be for the unit to be directly connected to the battery; most wire them to the available fuse block and experience no problems at all.

[EZM]

I purchased a dedicated fuse block (6 terminal marine) to wire a separate line right up from my battery using a 10 AWG dedicated wire. Each terminal will have it's own ATO fuse.

http://www.bluesea.com/products/5028/ST_Blade_Fuse_Block_-_6_Circuits_with_Cover

After doing some research here and on a few other sites - this seems the best way to avoid any issues. The total cost is about another $60 (wire and terminal fuse block).

You will effectively isolate your electronics from other existing boat electrical  loads and provide a convenient way to fish one wire up from the battery up and under the dash where you distribute or connect all devices into your fuse block under the dash.

Install is easier, fuses are easier to get at, the electrical is cleaner and it protects your investment.

[EZM]

sorry - wrong link - this fuse block is what I used ....

http://www.bluesea.com/products/5025/ST_Blade_Fuse_Block_-_6_Circuits_with_Negative_Bus_and_Cover

it has the negative bus on it

[MTBob]

EZM: Thanks, that sure looks like a clean way to go, I like the fuse block design. 
As Greg pointed out, most newer boats have a fuse block, mine included.  But, mine is really hard to get to the back side to make an electrical connection.  The fuse block I have has a multi-connector drop that hangs behind the dash, this drop connects to the fuse block.  I have connected 3 items to that drop - a marine radio, Troll Master kicker speed controller and the HB 998.  I have installed an additional in-line fuse to each of these devices.
It's unclear to me right now whether isolating the HB on a separate circuit is necessary.   From what I've read interference and electrical noise comes from connections to the electric trolling motor.  My Minkota electric motor is powered by a separate battery, not connected to any other electric circuit.   I think I'll wait to see what kind of interference I get before I install an additional fuse block.

[raypla]

Where did you get the aluminum channel/mounting plate that is going to allow you your adjustability?  Custom?  Where can a similar set up like that be sourced?

[MTBob]

Raypla
I machined the fixtures you see on the mounting board -  the aluminum hold down strips and circular plates.  I also milled the recess in the mounting board.  I have a small machine shop so it's pretty easy for me to do this kind of work.  I thought about not milling the hold down strips and just use two pieces of aluminum strips laid on each other. 

So, let me see if I can describe how someone without a lot of tools could do this.  All you'd need is a scroll saw or something that can cut a circle out of plastic.  Get a small sheet of 1/4" polycarbonate plastic.  Cut a circle about 3 1/2" in diameter - just big enough to give about 3/8 of an inch clearance on the transducer mounting fixture, corner to corner.  The circular plate doesn't have to be all that smooth.  Then cut the plastic sheet into strips about 1" wide.  Cut the strips to the height dimension of the mounting board. Set the circular plate on the mounting board, lay one strip next to it on each side, then lay the other strip over the circular plate with about 1/4"-5/18" overhang.  Now here's the trick - there has to be enough pressure on the hold down strips to put pressure on the circular plate so it won't move.  You could do that by adding a strip of Gorilla tape to the underside of the circular plate.  At this point you'd have to fiddle with the setup to get the pieces aligned.  Then just drill holes in the hold down strips - and you got it.  To make this even a stronger mount you could use 5/16" plastic for the circular plate and hold down strips,or use the same technique with aluminum plate.  I used #12 stainless sheet metal screws to hold the strips in place.  I hope this makes sense.
Bob

[MTBob]

Here are a few photos of my final installation that I thought you'all might like to see.

Here's the transducer mounting arrangement:
I used a 3/8" water hose to route the transducer cables up and over the transom.  I also used a similar arrangement to cover cables that run across the front of the transom.  This is a bit of over kill, but it adds great protection to the cables.  I split the hose with a razor, placed it over the cables and tie-wrapped the hose together. 


I really don't know if I have the transducers set right, but I'll give it a go and adjust as needed:


Then, even though it may not be necessary, here's how I decided to mount my GPS unit.

I made an aluminum plate for the bottom of the GPS and used velcro to mount the unit:

Then when I've got the cover on and traveling, I pull the GPS off the velcro mount and store it on the inside of the gunwale using another velcro strip:

Since I plan on not keeping the HB Control Head in the boat when stored, I want to be able to easily remove the cable bundle connector.  Unfortunately the thumb screw that comes with the unit is a real pain to use.  It is too small and hard to get a hold of.  So, I machined a small extension knob that allows for easy removal of the cable bundle.  I just slipped this new brass knob over the old one and epoxy'd it in place.

[newkid4si]

MTBob
   Once again, nice install.
   I see one area of possible concern. I notice that each transducer cable is secured with a clamp on the
   mounting board. Have you manually tripped each transducer to verify that the cable has the freedom to
   move without kinking? If you hit something, the transducers are coming up hard and fast. I originally
   had mine clamped like yours, but after watching the cable movement, I removed the clamp.

             Mike

[short grub]

MT that looks really clean and neat ....... very well done

on a sidenote its good we dont live close to each other I'd have you building all kinds of stuff in your machine shop lol

again very nice install sir