Topic: Volt reading on 1199

[graggy]

I have a 1199si hd and when I turn it on without the motor running the voltage reads 11.9-12 volts. When I put a meter on the battery at the same time the meter reads 12.9-13 volts. When I run the motor I’m reading 13.5 but it jumps around. My motor is a OptiMax 225 pro xs 2006. When I’m running around and hit my trim button the voltage reading goes down to 11.9-12 volts. The battery is brand new. I just replaced it because every time I start my motor the 1199 would turn off and I would have to turn it on again. It never did that before I could turn the motor on and off all day and the 1199 would never shut off. Can anyone tell me what I should look at to see whats going on? Thanks

[sonar112]

Could be corrosion or a loose connection somewhere. Check all of your wiring connections for signs of corrosion.  Start at the battery, and include ALL connections at busbars, terminal blocks, butt connectors, in-line fuses, etc.  Also look at the wire at each connector...sometimes corrosion can migrate up inside the insulation.  Don't just look at the 1199 wiring - also check the circuit to and from the engine.   

[fishreed]

I have a 1199si hd and when I turn it on without the motor running the voltage reads 11.9-12 volts. When I put a meter on the battery at the same time the meter reads 12.9-13 volts. When I run the motor I’m reading 13.5 but it jumps around. My motor is a OptiMax 225 pro xs 2006. When I’m running around and hit my trim button the voltage reading goes down to 11.9-12 volts. The battery is brand new. I just replaced it because every time I start my motor the 1199 would turn off and I would have to turn it on again. It never did that before I could turn the motor on and off all day and the 1199 would never shut off. Can anyone tell me what I should look at to see whats going on? Thanks

You need to get your sonars disconnected from your outboard's start battery and get them connected to a second battery. Connecting electronics to the crank battery causes all sorts of electrical surge and spike problems.

[graggy]

Then why do the sonar give battery voltage? It doesn’t seem right just to give you the voltage of a battery thats not being charged while using.

[N9Phil]

Modern day electronics is very sensitive to voltage fluctuations.  When a boat motor starts it draws a lot of current and this will cause the voltage of the starting battery voltage to to drop down.  This can cause real problems in sensitive electronics.  Not only does this cause the voltage to drop it can also cause voltage spikes and these can cause real problems at times.  The reason that your electronic equipment shows the voltage is so you can monitor the state of your battery.  The same reason not to have your electronics connected to your motor battery also applies to not connecting your electronics to your trolling motor batteries.

[graggy]

Here is what I came across today. With my boat just sitting on the trailer not running I’m reading 12.9 volts on my battery. On my 1199 it is saying 11.9 volts. I pulled the plug off the back of the sonar and read the voltage on the plug and got the same voltage as the battery 12.9. Plugged the power back on to my sonar and turned it on and it is still saying 11.9. Other than that the unit is working fine just don’t know why the voltage reading is different

[N9Phil]

There can be many reasons for the difference in voltage when you read it off the equipment.  The voltage reading on your 1199 might be off.  You could have a long run of wire from the battery going to the 1199 and this wire can be going thru several connections and or switches  or it could be undersized for the situation.  This is why the first thing that is suggested is to connect your electronics on a separate battery fused at the battery with the proper size wire used for your situation.  It is not worth the hassle to try and not start with the manufactures recommendations.  It doesn't matter if your setup has worked this way for years.  Connections and wires that are over stressed can go bad anytime.

[fishreed]

Then why do the sonar give battery voltage? It doesn’t seem right just to give you the voltage of a battery thats not being charged while using.

Who cares what the 1199 voltage box says, after all you are fishing right? If you want a precision voltage tester you might want to look into buying a high end FLUKE Multi tester. When that big motor  fires up it creates a electrical voltage surge and spikes  to the crank battery. Why don't you turn off the 1199's voltage display box OFF and then you won't have to look at the voltage and then get it hooked to a separate battery. They do have digital battery voltage gauges you can add at your boats' s instrument panel if voltage is important to you too. Hook your 1199SI unit to a  31 or 27 series separate battery and you will be fine as then you can fish all day long until you have to re-charge it and you effectively eliminate all "dirty" electrical sources. 

[October1]

Then why do the sonar give battery voltage? It doesn’t seem right just to give you the voltage of a battery thats not being charged while using.

Because when the voltage gets down to a certain point the unit will shut off.

[rnvinc]

Turn the back light down until the screen is barely visible and you will see the voltage readout much closer to your voltmeter reading  ...

The voltage showing in the unit readout box is with the load of the unit itself drawing on it - not the voltage coming into the head unit power socket  ...

To see actual voltage health of your battery you need a meter in the battery circuit before it reaches the head unit  ...either in the battery circuit before the head unit or attached directly to the battery  ...

Rickie

[October1]

Turn the back light down until the screen is barely visible and you will see the voltage readout much closer to your voltmeter reading  ...

The voltage showing in the unit readout box is with the load of the unit itself drawing on it - not the voltage coming into the head unit power socket  ...

To see actual voltage health of your battery you need a meter in the battery circuit before it reaches the head unit  ...either in the battery circuit before the head unit or attached directly to the battery  ...

Rickie

This is a disappointing thing to hear about. You would think they would measure the voltage coming in so you could have a precise voltage to go by regardless of settings when determining approximately how long you have left until the unit will turn itself off. I think most people would expect the voltage to be the battery voltage.

[N9Phil]

I have been dealing with electronic equipment going on 56 years and there are to many variables here to worry about.  Go with the equipment manufactures recommendations for wire size and separate battery  and you will be OK.  The equipment we have on our boats is not precision equipment that needs voltages with in less than 1%.  I just connected my Solix to a regulated power supply, with the power supply connected to 12.1 volts with the power cord that came with the unit I read 12.1 volts when the screen intensity is down below 50%.  When I turn the screen intensity to the maximum, the voltage on the Solix drops to 11.1 volts.   I realize that the Solix screen is larger than the 1199 however I am not running through any length of wire or switches that you will have on a boat. 

[fishreed]

I have been dealing with electronic equipment going on 56 years and there are to many variables here to worry about.  Go with the equipment manufactures recommendations for wire size and separate battery  and you will be OK.  The equipment we have on our boats is not precision equipment that needs voltages with in less than 1%.  I just connected my Solix to a regulated power supply, with the power supply connected to 12.1 volts with the power cord that came with the unit I read 12.1 volts when the screen intensity is down below 50%.  When I turn the screen intensity to the maximum, the voltage on the Solix drops to 11.1 volts.   I realize that the Solix screen is larger than the 1199 however I am not running through any length of wire or switches that you will have on a boat.

110% correct Phil.....a Humminbird 1199SI pulls about 1.5 amps DC.   Since Amps times volts = watts, that is about 18 watts. Any size 14  stranded copper is more than capable of doing that on any boat since the same wire  is rated for 15 amps at 115 volts AC which is 1725 watts....a #12 wire is rated for 20 amps @ 115 AC volts. This 12 volt DC stuff isn't dog diddle. I use #16 wire for my electronics and it is more than adequate for anything less than 5 amps DC unless you are hooking up a VHF 25 watt radio, then you need #14 wire  fused at 10 amps for the transmitting.   

[Bob B]

When you have that big a difference in the voltage reading on your unit than you do at the battery it is almost always a problem with the wiring.  There could be a bad connection or even a fuse that has a resistive connection.  If you pull the power wire from the unit and measure the voltage there, you are measuring the voltage without a current load.  With no current load there will be no voltage drop, so that is not a valid way to test.  If you remove the power wire from the cable collector and connect it directly to the unit you should be able to access the pins you can see on the side of the power connector.  Check your voltage there with a meter with the unit turned on the the brightness turned up.  Give us some more info about how your unit is wired.

I don't have an 1199, but do have an 1198 which will have very similar characteristics.  With my console 1198, I read about  to .2 volts less on the unit that at the battery.  I have a spade type fuse at the cranking battery and from there I have 10 gauge wire to a dedicated fuse block block for the electronics and the console unit is connected to that fuse block thru a 2nd fuse in the fuse block.  I suspect most of the voltage drop I am seeing on my unit is because I have 2 fuses inline with it.  The 10 Gauge wire will have very little loss.  I also used marine grade crimp connections crimped with a hydraulic crimper.

The reason the voltage will vary on the unit as you turn the brightness up and down is that the brightness level causes a big change in the current flow to the unit and more voltage will be dropped across and bad connection or wire that is not of sufficient size as current increases.

A dedicated battery for the electronics is normally not necessary but is also not a bad idea.  I haven't had a need for the additional battery since I have a group 31 AGM battery for my cranking battery.  I would consider that solution if the problem were that you were loosing voltage as the day goes on....but with that big a voltage drop between the battery and your unit ... you have a problem in your wiring.

P.S.  I have an 1197 and an 1198 and have found the voltage reading on both units to be VERY close to the reading I get with a good digital voltmeter connected to the pins at the end of the power plug .... The power plug itself can be making a bad connection and comparing the voltage on the plug pins to the readout on the unit is a good way to determine that.

[fishreed]

When you have that big a difference in the voltage reading on your unit than you do at the battery it is almost always a problem with the wiring.  There could be a bad connection or even a fuse that has a resistive connection.  If you pull the power wire from the unit and measure the voltage there, you are measuring the voltage without a current load.  With no current load there will be no voltage drop, so that is not a valid way to test.  If you remove the power wire from the cable collector and connect it directly to the unit you should be able to access the pins you can see on the side of the power connector.  Check your voltage there with a meter with the unit turned on the the brightness turned up.  Give us some more info about how your unit is wired.

I don't have an 1199, but do have an 1198 which will have very similar characteristics.  With my console 1198, I read about  to .2 volts less on the unit that at the battery.  I have a spade type fuse at the cranking battery and from there I have 10 gauge wire to a dedicated fuse block block for the electronics and the console unit is connected to that fuse block thru a 2nd fuse in the fuse block.  I suspect most of the voltage drop I am seeing on my unit is because I have 2 fuses inline with it.  The 10 Gauge wire will have very little loss.  I also used marine grade crimp connections crimped with a hydraulic crimper.

The reason the voltage will vary on the unit as you turn the brightness up and down is that the brightness level causes a big change in the current flow to the unit and more voltage will be dropped across and bad connection or wire that is not of sufficient size as current increases.

A dedicated battery for the electronics is normally not necessary but is also not a bad idea.  I haven't had a need for the additional battery since I have a group 31 AGM battery for my cranking battery.  I would consider that solution if the problem were that you were loosing voltage as the day goes on....but with that big a voltage drop between the battery and your unit ... you have a problem in your wiring.

P.S.  I have an 1197 and an 1198 and have found the voltage reading on both units to be VERY close to the reading I get with a good digital voltmeter connected to the pins at the end of the power plug .... The power plug itself can be making a bad connection and comparing the voltage on the plug pins to the readout on the unit is a good way to determine that.

There is no way to check the voltage when the power plug wire is connected to the back of his 1199 unit without hacking  into the wiring harness  for a connection for  the voltage tester's test probes as I don't recommend that ........You folks are making this way too complicated. We are talking about 12 volt direct current (DC) and you are treating this like the 1199 sonar is drawing amps and watts like a toaster or 1500 watt AC electrical space heater. As a degreed electrical engineer, if you want  to see what the 1199 unit in drawing in terms of watts you need an inline watt meter between the fuse buss and the 1199 head unit....Humminbird specifications rate  the amp draw at 12 volts for the 1199Si @ 1.5 amps DC. A #12 or  #14 stranded copper wire is more than capable of carrying the load of 1.5 amps DC current of the 1199SI to the PC11 power cord regardless if the screen brightness is up high or low. If you really want to get technical, why don't your cut the factory cord off the 1199SI wiring harness (PC11) and spice  in the power  plug of the 1199 at one end.  In my right hand I have a factory 1199SI 6ft power cord (PC11) with an inline noise choke and I will challenge anyone to tell me the factory power cord heavier than #16 stranded copper.  What this means is you can run even a #8 copper wire to the 1199SI's  head unit's and spice it into  the 6 foot 1199 PC11 power cord and you still have only the power cord's wire size which I estimate is only 2 wires of #20/16 stranded  copper wire  in a 2 wire casing. Unless you have a extremely long run from the mounted location of the 1199SI head unit and the fuse buss, #14 stranded copper to the PC11 power cord is the best you can do.  If hummingbird was so concerned about wire size then they would have made the 6 foot  PC11 power cord out of alot more heavier wire than it is now of which DID NOT happen. 

I just found 2 brand new 6 foot PC10 Humminbird factory power cords in my bag of sonar stuff  with raw tinned ends and I will bet my house they are SIZE #20 or maybe #18, but NEVER #16 or #14 !!!!!! The PC10 is a power cord WITHOUT the inline noise reduction choke. I took a picture with my dedicated  100mm Canon macro lens but the picture  is too big to post.  This size wire is  the size you would see on a set of headphones..let me try a different lens. There you go ...a good picture of the Mickey Mouse wire size Humminbird provides you in comparison with an American quarter.  Go ahead cut off the 6 foot cord and wire in a #14/#16 wire  and just use the plug to plug in  in the 1199SI if somebody is so concerned about the size of the wire.

[Bob B]

Using the voltage readout on the unit to determine what voltage loss is happening in the wiring to the unit is a very valuable troubleshooting tool.  The power plugs on my units have exposed pins on the side of the plug where it connects into the unit.  The voltage on those pins can be measured while the plug is connected to the unit if the plug is removed from the cable connector .... maybe yours is different.

On a short run of wire, the wire size is not that important but it becomes a lot more important as the length of the wire increases and is ONE of the possible causes of voltage drop.  The total length of the wire is double the length of the wire run since the current has to flow to the unit and back to the negative side of the battery.  There is no way I would ever use wire as small as 14 gauge and any other knowledgeable installer will tell you the same thing. ..... What needs to be determined here is why there is so much voltage drop from the battery to the unit.  It is more than likely bad connections somewhere in the system.

[fishreed]

Using the voltage readout on the unit to determine what voltage loss is happening in the wiring to the unit is a very valuable troubleshooting tool.  The power plugs on my units have exposed pins on the side of the plug where it connects into the unit.  The voltage on those pins can be measured while the plug is connected to the unit if the plug is removed from the cable connector .... maybe yours is different.

On a short run of wire, the wire size is not that important but it becomes a lot more important as the length of the wire increases and is ONE of the possible causes of voltage drop.  The total length of the wire is double the length of the wire run since the current has to flow to the unit and back to the negative side of the battery.  There is no way I would ever use wire as small as 14 gauge and any other knowledgeable installer will tell you the same thing. ..... What needs to be determined here is why there is so much voltage drop from the battery to the unit.  It is more than likely bad connections somewhere in the system.

Huh Bob? Are you kidding me?  We are  talking DC voltage,,,,, DC VOLTAGE!!!!!  for Pete's Sake...a #14 wire will carry 15 amps AC in your house on a 15 amp circuit...Why would you  hesitate not to use #14  running a puny 1.5 amps DC or 18 watts to run 10-12 feet ? How much wire on an average boat does one need when the PC11 cord is 6 feet? 10 feet maybe plus the length of the PC power cord. #14 is more than adequate to carry 5 amp DC load.   Those  "knowledgeable" installers were flunk outs in Electronics 101. Let's just wire everything in the boat with stranded #8 or #6 including the bilge pump and live well pump and use 2 inch plastic conduit. Those 2 little minuscule pins in the 1199S plug won't carry what the #14 wire will. 

I see the exposed pins on a PC10/11power cord but they can't be easily accessed by a voltage meter's probes when you plug them in the back of the unit. Hack/cut  into the power cord if you want and then buy another power cord for 20 bucks if you are concerned about voltage loss becausue it isn't the wire size causing the voltage drop.

[Whistler]

I'm with you fishreed.   I too have a bachelors degree in electronics and it drives me nuts to hear guys recommend running heavy gauge stranded wire for most sonar setups where the distance is 20 ft or less and the current is so low.  Not to mention the the fact that they then connect that heavy gauge wire to the PC-11 wiring provided by HB  .

But generally it isn't worth the argument.

[Bob B]

I have seen hundreds of threads concerning wire size and generally a person doesn't believe it makes a difference until they see first hand how sizing the wire too small can cause a multitude of intermittent problems.  The goal is to minimize the voltage drop from the battery to the unit as much as possible.  These units are very susceptible to low voltage ... it has nothing to do as to whether a certain wire size will HANDLE the current flow.  I have been trained and worked with electronics from before computers were using paper tape for data input so I have a thorough understanding of DC voltage principles .... but the bigger key is seeing all the posts where increasing wire size solved problems.  I'm not even recommending the original poster  increase his wire size ... we don't even know what wire he is using, all we know is that he has WAY too much voltage drop in his wiring system. 
I used to have a link to a post from a Humminbird customer service supervisor that showed how they recommended testing the voltage on the end of the unit cable .... but that post got lost a few years ago when that site server crashed.  Everyone who thinks small gauge wire is fine for wiring a boat ... or think it is fine to use the wiring installed by the boat manufacturer can continue thinking it is .... til they discover it isn't.

I think we better start another thread if we want to discuss this further since arguing about wire size isn't doing anything to help the original poster solve his problem.

[Whistler]

Bob - It certainly can't hurt to use a larger wire size.  The necessity is the real question.  I think in many cases, the issues are resolved more by running wire directly to the battery, and not through the boats factory wiring and power switching, that generally corrects most problems. 

Also, I thought I read from the OP that the voltage at the PC-11 connector was 12.9 volts.  Which was the same as the voltage at the battery.  If that is that case, then that eliminates any drop being caused by the wiring. 

[Bob B]

He was checking the voltage on the plug with it removed from the unit ..... with no load you will read a static voltage that will be the same as the battery voltage.  Any bad connections ....unless the wire is completely open .... will only show a voltage drop across them if there is current flow.
Since you work with electronics I'm sure you will be familiar with the formula ( E=IR).  (Voltage = Current x Resistance).  In this case the voltage would be the voltage dropped across the wiring circuit .... which will be multiplied as the current increases.  The resistance will be the sum total of connections, fuses, and wire resistance in the circuit.

As I stated in my other posts, I have seen virtually hundreds of threads discussing this subject and using bigger wire than you think you need is always the end result of the discussion.  It is just one more thing that can be done to maximize the voltage to the unit and minimize the resistance and voltage loss in the circuit.  Other important factors are the wire type, terminal connections, and running the wire such that the possibility of interference can be reduced.  In my boat I actually used twisted pair wire to reduce the possibility of interference.

There is no doubt that having a battery dedicated to the electronics is the ultimate solution .... especially if the battery could be placed closer to the electronics.   Not everybody wants to go to the extra expense of doing this and often has no place to easily put an extra battery.

But .... we really need to get back to trying to help the OP who has a VERY significant voltage loss in his wiring and needs assistance figuring out what is causing it....unless he has lost interest due to all the flak.

[Bob B]

Was just checking another site and there is a similar discussion about wire that just got started.  http://www.bbcboards.net/showthread.php?t=892829

If you visit several of these forums there will be a discussion of what size wire almost continually.... a search will show MANY.

[Bob B]

....and other boat wiring thread over there on the same day... http://www.bbcboards.net/showthread.php?t=893324&p=9244514#post9244514

[fishreed]

As I stated in my other posts, I have seen virtually hundreds of threads discussing this subject and using bigger wire than you think you need is always the end result of the discussion.  It is just one more thing that can be done to maximize the voltage to the unit and minimize the resistance and voltage loss in the circuit.  Other important factors are the wire type, terminal connections, and running the wire such that the possibility of interference can be reduced.  In my boat I actually used twisted pair wire to reduce the possibility of interference.

Hey Bob. LMAO....Why don't you wrap all your sonar wiring in a copper wire wrap shielding  to prevent RF interference?  You never know if the Russians might want hack into your sonar power cables and steal your voltage?  Just kidding.

Fishreed

[N9Phil]

It sure is good to see such a much covered subject on the site.  It goes to show you that everyone does not completely agree with each other.  In the end it gets down to whatever works for you go for it!  Remember that while your set up has been working for you now does not mean that it will continue working the way you expect in the future.  Plan for the future do the job right the first time with a set up that will allow you expansion down the way! Everyone have a great time on the water!

[graggy]

Ok so here’s what I did. I ran two new wires from my starting battery to a new power plug on the unit with a 3 amp fuse inline. Now the reading on the 1199 and the reading on the battery are within 1/10 of a volt. I also replaced my onboard 3 bank charger. Now the unit does not turn off when I start my motor just like it used to. I live in florida and talk to a lot of bass fishermen from amateurs to pros and even the pros are running their sonars of the starting battery and not just one of them a lot of pros run their units off their starting battery.

[Bob B]

Ok so here’s what I did. I ran two new wires from my starting battery to a new power plug on the unit with a 3 amp fuse inline. Now the reading on the 1199 and the reading on the battery are within 1/10 of a volt. I also replaced my onboard 3 bank charger. Now the unit does not turn off when I start my motor just like it used to. I live in florida and talk to a lot of bass fishermen from amateurs to pros and even the pros are running their sonars of the starting battery and not just one of them a lot of pros run their units off their starting battery.

Great to hear you resolved your issue ... You are correct that the majority of people run their electronics off the starting battery with no issues.  If there are 4 high current draw units on a boat like some people have there is a greater potential for problems.

I keep the voltage readout display on my bow unit all the time ...and the console unit sometimes....so I will notice if I have taxed the starting battery too much .... but have never had a problem.  Devising a method of jumping the starting battery from the trolling motor batteries is also a good idea ... the starting battery could fail regardless of the load on it.
If you are running anything else off the other circuit, you may want to troubleshoot to find where the bad connection is.

P.S.  Thanks for reporting back what you did to resolve the problem.  Others may be able to benefit from your experience.

[fishreed]

Ok so here’s what I did. I ran two new wires from my starting battery to a new power plug on the unit with a 3 amp fuse inline. Now the reading on the 1199 and the reading on the battery are within 1/10 of a volt. I also replaced my onboard 3 bank charger. Now the unit does not turn off when I start my motor just like it used to. I live in florida and talk to a lot of bass fishermen from amateurs to pros and even the pros are running their sonars of the starting battery and not just one of them a lot of pros run their units off their starting battery.

Good for you. But...just because A bass "pro" does something does not make it smart. 2 things are guaranteed in my boating electronic life. One is the sun will rise tomorrow. Two, is I will Never ..repeat... Never run my sonar electronics to the "dirty" electricity  engine start battery.  What does your on board 3 bank charger you plug into household AC wall plug current have to do with anything?  A three bank on board battery charger runs by AC current when you are hooked up to AC electricity and means nothing when you are on the water ...I assume you mean by a new "PLUG" on your 1199 you mean a new humminbird power cord of the PC 10/11 variety? Make sure you use di-electric compound or synthetic grease on the 1199's  2 plug post terminals to prevent corrosion of the posts.

[rnvinc]

The recommendation to power electronics from the starting battery is to avoid RFI potential from the TM circuit  ...

Very few boats have the space for a dedicated 4th battery exclusively for electronics  ...although I do highly recommend a 4th battery if the user has room  ...

Rickie

[graggy]

The reason I changed my 3 bank charger is because I suspected it of going bad as it was only charging to 12.6 volts and it was 12 years old and starting to make a humming noise like the laminations on a transformer getting loose. I replaced it with a dual pro 3 bank charger 10 amps per bank. No more problems

[fishreed]

The reason I changed my 3 bank charger is because I suspected it of going bad as it was only charging to 12.6 volts and it was 12 years old and starting to make a humming noise like the laminations on a transformer getting loose. I replaced it with a dual pro 3 bank charger 10 amps per bank. No more problems

Good job.....I did the same thing on my 2 bank Guest charger, but wasn't "humming" as I needed the 3rd bank.

[ezfishn]

There are mixed reasons for adding an additional battery just for the electronics.  Some do it to try and avoid interference issues and others do it because of added power needs or safety measure to ensure they make it back to the ramp.  Sometimes not possible to add an extra battery on some boats and suppose that is why some are switching to Lithium batteries...I'm not one of those...LOL  One thing for certain is across several forums, folks using existing boat harnesses, inadequate wiring or power sources are having problems with these units.  Good wiring and weak or faulty battery might give you same results as the reverse condition.

[Boots]

Don't worry about the Mule going Blind Just Load the Wagon If you want problems hook your Birds to a trolling motor battery Don't worry with voltage unless units not functioning correct or you boat won't start.  Do hunt things to worry about. Go fishing and enjoy.