Author Topic: 898c SI loading and shutting down automatically (Read 40472 times)

abuawaab · « **on:** June 01, 2012, 03:14:32 PM »

I bought my unit in April 2011 and it has been working reasonably well.
After upgrading the software to 6.180 the unit worked for 2 weeks.
I attempted to delete a way-point and the unit froze.
I pressed the power button to restart the unit and the problem started.
The unit loads, displays a message to press the exit button and then within a second or two it immediately shuts down only to power up again by itself.
The only way to stop the cycle is by disconnecting the power source.
I tried to reset it or revert to the older software but the unit will not give me an opportunity to select any option as it will shut down too fast.
HB suggested a power/connection problem. The 12v battery is on full charge, I ensured that the connections are not loose by bending the pins very slightly. I also cleaned all the buttons but the problem persists.

I read about bootstrapping from the PC but I'm not sure is that is possible with the 898c SI - I also don't have the RS232 cable.

I live in Muscat, Oman and shipping it to HB's service center in the USA or Canada is not a viable option for me.

Any expert advise will be welcomed.
Thanks.

sonar2000 · « **Reply #1 on:** June 01, 2012, 03:53:32 PM »

Bootstrap is not an option for the '98 linux processors. (Unfortunately..)
Have you anything else connected to the unit?
You might try disconnecting the transducer and the GPS cable and then from a power off with a previous level of update in the card slot power on the unit.

Make sure the card in the slot only has the previous level of code on it. Make sure there are not other cards in the unit. Make sure the update card does not have any waypoints or other data on it.
Lets see where we can go from there.

Chuck

abuawaab · « **Reply #2 on:** June 01, 2012, 09:25:33 PM »

Chuck,

Thanks for your reply.
I formatted an sdcard and loaded the previous software version and followed your instructions exactly.
I get the option to update the software and acting very quickly I answer yes, the dialog box goes red and before I can answer no the unit shuts down and automatically restarts. I try to anticipate the and act quickly but the unit is just too fast.

abuawaab.

abuawaab · « **Reply #3 on:** June 01, 2012, 10:31:17 PM »

Here is a video on youtube of the unit restarting itself.

http://youtu.be/fAdALL9zuo0

And another one attempting to update the firmware.

http://youtu.be/GcBj1ghhC0E

sonar2000 · « **Reply #4 on:** June 02, 2012, 04:41:32 PM »

OK, It was worth a try to try a downlevel.
Unless someone else has another idea it may be time to send back to get the factory to reset.
We do need a field level "bootstrap" for the new linux processors.

Chuck

abuawaab · « **Reply #5 on:** June 04, 2012, 09:43:32 PM »

Humminbird Service advised me that I need to pay $260 plus shipping charges to reset the unit just because it is over one year since I purchased the unit.

It seems rather unfair for customers to suffer the inconvenience and pay a large sum of money to get the unit reset just because the customer trusted Humminbird's new software which turns out to have at least one bug and a design flow that won't allow the user to reset the unit themselves.

What do you guys think?

Meanwhile, I would advise users to keep away from 6.180.

abuawaab.

ITGEEK · « **Reply #6 on:** June 05, 2012, 10:45:41 AM »

Quote

The 12v battery is on full charge

This only means that your battery is fully charged.
It doesn't mean your battery is any good.

It looks like maybe your battery doesn't have the juice to complete the
boot-up process.

Fully charge and load test your battery.
Is the fuse good and free of corrosion?
Double check the power connections.
You can even try a known good battery to test (maybe from your car).

If you have an SD card in the slot with an update, it should stop to
ask you if you want to update.
Try that after checking the above.

I don't think that any version of update would prevent you from
re-applying any update.

abuawaab · « **Reply #7 on:** June 05, 2012, 11:31:15 AM »

I have tried it on three other batteries including car batteries and also changed the fuse connector.
The video is meant to show the basic problem without the SDcard.

Here is another video attempting to update the firmware.

http://youtu.be/GcBj1ghhC0E

abuawaab.

ITGEEK · « **Reply #8 on:** June 05, 2012, 01:52:32 PM »

That looks pretty bad.
Maybe try, re-downloading the software update onto your SD card.
The download may be corrupted.
Make note of the file size now, and after you re-download it, and compare the two.
If they are differerent, then that may be good news.

Also, try putting the update card in the other slot.
If you have a map card in there, remove it.
And make damn sure the update is for your model unit.

Like Chuck said, make sure that there is only one .bin file on the SD card
before you try the update. The unit is recognizing that there is a software
update on the card, which is good.

!!!DO THIS AT YOUR OWN RISK AND DON'T BLAME ME IF YOU BREAK IT!!!
This is highly unorthodox, but if you have a rubber mallet, you could smack the back of the unit
while it is trying to boot up, and see what happens before paying $260 to get it fixed.
That's what I would do when I was positive I tried everything possible, but you are not me.
Don't smack it so hard that you break something.
If that didn't work, then I'd smack it on the side real good while it tries to boot up.

Of course, Humminbird would not approve of these type of diagnostics

, but WTF, sometimes
you've got to do, what you've got to do.

I hope you get it working.
If none of the above works, then it's probably time to send it in.

Good Luck.

abuawaab · « **Reply #9 on:** June 05, 2012, 02:08:49 PM »

I tried all other suggestions except for the smacking.

I must admit that I don't have the guts to smack the unit.
Anyway, what's your theory behind smacking the unit? How would that possibly help?

The problem originated two weeks after upgrading the firmware when attempting to delete a way point and that somehow corrupted the internals of the unit. Other people have complained of other problems when deleting way points after upgrading to 6.180.

Resetting the unit to factory defaults should reformat the internals. That is my theory.
The only problem is that the software will not get to a point where I could reset the unit and there is no hardware option (like a combination of buttons) to reset the unit either.

abuawaab.

ITGEEK · « **Reply #10 on:** June 05, 2012, 02:50:53 PM »

My theory on smacking the unit is that internally, something could be stuck.
The odds are that this won't fix anything, but as I said before, it's the last
resort, with nothing much to lose.

My guess is that a corrupted waypoint could have started all this mess.
I had a corrupted waypoint on my 1197, and it would not work.
But, it would let me install an older update.
I then deleted all NAV data on the unit, and brought the SD card waypoints
into HumminbirdPC.

Humminbird does not properly test these updates.
Unfortunately, as you can see, it causes a lot of grief.
And untold hours of trying out different things.
Maybe they'll get it right in the future.

I really don't know what else to tell you.

sonar2000 · « **Reply #11 on:** June 05, 2012, 03:52:50 PM »

I think we should not buy another HB until they have a field reset for the users, fix the bad code issue and start to support the customer when it is a product issue. To heck with a 1 year warrenty if the issue is a known problem...
This is a ridiculous problem and one that too many people are having to put up with..

Chuck

offroad · « **Reply #12 on:** June 05, 2012, 10:32:31 PM »

Strong words there..... And you know what l agree 100%. l don't have a problem with my two units 898/1197 and l hope l never do BUT l read this forum and other HB sites and there seems to be a growing trend .The last debacle with the updates is way past a joke, Com-on Mr Humminbird get your act together

ITGEEK · « **Reply #13 on:** June 06, 2012, 08:01:47 AM »

It is terrible that a user with a good working unit, applies an update,
the system gets screwed up, then has to send the unit back to
Humminbird and pay for the shipping, and to pay to have it fixed.

The safest thing to do, is if your unit is working OK, then
stay away from the updates.

This problem is an easy fix though. Humminbird just needs to put the highest
priority on testing the updates before releasing them. They need to thoroughly
test each block of code as it is developed. If I was Humminbird, I would halt all
further release of updates RIGHT NOW, until this problem is fixed.

The good news is that so many people are complaining about this issue
that Humminbird has to take note of it. This will improve things for the future.
If it doesn't improve, then customers will buy other brands of sonars, and
who could really blame them. This is an extremely important issue and I hope
that Humminbird makes some serious changes, soon. If they don't, then they
may not be around long.

I'm not at the point yet of switching brands, but I am at the point that with
my current 1197, that I will never update it again. You only have to get burned one good time
with these updates to fully understand the frustration and time involved to get
your unit working again.

I hope that Humminbird steps up and makes the right decisions.
I for one like Humminbird, and want to see them continue to offer us
good reliable sonars.

sonar2000 · « **Reply #14 on:** June 06, 2012, 09:01:12 AM »

I agree with ITG in that a working HB is a great unit. I also agree with those frustrated by units that are having issues. Most of the time it is code related. sometimnes it is hardware and then there are user problems.
HB has a challenge and if they want to continue in the sonar business a review of processes is in order.
We have three HB units and for our usage they do work pretty well. Of course we do not use the NAV or waypoint function and rely on another brand to do that.
Our biggest issue is the connectors which seem to not make good contact or lose contact at times..

The HB SI is good and has a place for us in SAR. There are times the big $$$$ units just are not the best for the area of search. Just as the HB has times when it is not the 1st choice.

I hope that Hb is able to rebound and make the products viable, afforadable and stable.

ITG is correct in that all code needs to halt until they can get a testing in place to ensure intergrity of code.

I am not unhappy or disgruntled but rather concerned that our unit may miss a target..

ABUAWAAB: We are getting a little off subject for your original post. Have you any more news on your problem? Are you going to have to send it back?
Chuck

ITGEEK · « **Reply #15 on:** June 06, 2012, 10:05:11 AM »

I am not unhappy or disgruntled either.
I love my 1197.
I'm just extremely concerned that Humminbird needs to get a handle on this software update problem. And, they need to do it quickly.

abuawaab · « **Reply #16 on:** June 06, 2012, 10:31:20 AM »

Thank you all for your support and I agree with your statements about HB.

I have spent a lot of money on the unit, and drilled holes on my boat specifically for the unit.
It would be a shame for me to throw it away. I have no choice now but to ship it back to HB Service Dept.

I have asked them to consider their charges and they want to look at the unit before they commit.
I must admit their email responses are too slow compared to other service providers.
They need my credit card details for the charges over the phone. I called them from Muscat, Oman (on a non toll free number - toll free don't work from overseas) and waited for 6 full minutes before I lost patience and hangup. I wrote to them about the issue and offered to pay by Paypal but no response yet. We have a time zone problem to make things worse.

HB commit by email, up to 90 days warranty after the repairs claiming that the problem should not happen again. That's a bit fishy for me!!!
I'm sorry to say but this unfortunate experience has/will cost me quite a bit of time, grief and money and I am very unhappy AND disgruntled. Apologies from HB is all that seems to be coming from them so far! I hope they will at least bear the full costs of the repairs.

Meanwhile, I have ordered another brand and will definitely not buy another HB unit again until they satisfy basic customer support satisfactorily.

I will appreciate more support from other members who read this forum.
I'm not sure if HB takes a keen interest on what their customers think and say.

Thanks again for your support and advice.

abuawaab.

ITGEEK · « **Reply #17 on:** June 06, 2012, 10:55:07 AM »

abuawaab:
I feel for you man, I really do. You've been through your own personal hell with your unit.
Sometimes in life, nothing seems to go right. And it usually happens in
sets of threes.

I had to return my 1197 twice to HB, both for screen issues.
The first time, the screen kept blinking off and on (under warranty).
The second time, the screen went so dark, that I could hardly see it (out of warranty).

Both times, the repairs did not cost me a dime.

You have to realize that now is an extremely busy fishing time, and I'm sure that
HB customer service is totally swamped with calls. They are going to have to at least look at your unit to try and make some kind of determination. So, you will have to be a little patient.
I think they are fair, and will do the right thing for you in the end.

Greg from Humminbird visits this site regularly, and has helped a lot of people here.
I truly believe this site would not function well without Greg. There are some questions here
that ONLY he can answer.

You had better believe that Humminbird knows what their users are talking about.
I'm sure that these software upgrade problems are at the very top of their
list right now.

Hang in there man. Things will eventually work out.

sock4438 · « **Reply #18 on:** June 06, 2012, 02:49:13 PM »

i to have had shutdown problems...but only when scrolling thru the the features...it then reboots and works fine for...GL
Sock

Gattlin · « **Reply #19 on:** June 06, 2012, 11:16:31 PM »

Hmmm I've stripped gpu's of all non imperative plastic and baked them in the oven at 500 for about 15 min and it makes the solder soft enough to reestablish contact:O Lolz I just had to throw that in there you know jus had to kinda thing.

kucai · « **Reply #20 on:** June 07, 2012, 02:08:22 AM »

eek.. that just woke me up from my dream to purchase an 898. Shipping a product across a continent or two for a reset/warranty issues is a big factor too.

Kimi · « **Reply #21 on:** June 14, 2012, 03:54:55 PM »

I got the same, "loadin-shutting down" problem on my unit (898) after I downloaded the latest software version in May.

I sent the unit back to the company that imports the Humminbirds to Finland, but haven't heard anything from them yet. The problem must be in the software. If I ewer get my unit back I newer going to update any software again.

I think Humminbird got a big problem here. Humminbird have to release software that can be updated safely, and that can be rebooted by the customer.

This sucks!

Kimi....

sonar2000 · « **Reply #22 on:** June 14, 2012, 08:41:41 PM »

Kimi....ITGeek has posted just this kind of concern in another thread. He is right. HB needs to get a handle on their code building, testing and release to the field.
We see too much problems with code from HB..

Chuck

abuawaab · « **Reply #23 on:** June 18, 2012, 09:56:34 AM »

Just to update you on progress to date.
I shipped the unit to Service Department in Eufaula.

It was all quiet so I asked them for the status and today they informed me that:

"The unit has been serviced and shipped back to you on ...".

So I asked them to advise me on the following:

1. What is the tracking number for the shipment.
2. What exactly was found to be the cause of the problem?
3. What do I need to do to ensure that there is no relapse of the problem or similar problem?

I hope to share the responses on the last two questions when I get a reply.

abuawaab.

ITGEEK · « **Reply #24 on:** June 18, 2012, 10:01:48 AM »

I think that I can confidently answer #3.
Don't ever turn the unit on again.

abuawaab · « **Reply #25 on:** June 27, 2012, 07:54:51 AM »

The unit has finally arrived at the post but I have not yet picked it up.

HB responded saying "There was a problem with a couple components on the PCB that needed replacement."
They also asked me "Do you have the unit linked with another unit using interlink? "

I replied as follows:

"The unit is always connected to the transducer, External GPS and the Power supply via the standard cables.

However, in the past few days I have bought a Furuno FCV-585 and when I receive the serviced 898c SI, I plan to link the External GPS to the Furuno Fish finder via NMEA0183. Will that create a problem?

How did the PCB components become defective and is it related to the software upgrade?
I usually leave the 898c SI unit on my boat and the outside temperature goes as high as 115 Deg. F. What can cause electronic components become defective? Please reply."

That was a week ago and they have not replied.

abuawaab.

ITGEEK · « **Reply #26 on:** June 27, 2012, 08:25:16 AM »

115 degrees is really hot.
I don't know if the units were designed to take that kind of heat.

Greg would know for sure.

Humminbird_Greg · « **Reply #27 on:** June 27, 2012, 02:31:23 PM »

I think that they are still rated to 70C (158F), so 115 should not be too hot for the unit, humans may be a different story though.

Connecting the NMEA Output from a Humminbird unit to another device should not cause a problem with the Humminbird unit.

If you want a faster response you need to call. If this is not an option than you will have to wait until they get to your e-mail message. Keep in mind that we do have issues with receiving e-mail from some providers.

abuawaab · « **Reply #28 on:** June 27, 2012, 02:58:54 PM »

Greg,

Many thanks for your much appreciated response.
It's really difficult for me to phone from Muscat mainly because of the time zone (+4 GMT) and the cost of waiting on the line before someone attends to me.

Can you find out for me/us as to what can cause problems "with a couple components on the PCB that would need replacement".
Is it something a user can inadvertently cause to components to be problematic?
Also, is there any link to the software upgrade?

Some transparency from HB will really help to boost confidence in HB.
Kindly help to clarify.

Many thanks again,

abuawaab.

ITGEEK · « **Reply #29 on:** June 27, 2012, 03:11:01 PM »

This is the link to the software downloads on this site for the 898c:
http://forums.sideimagingsoft.com/index.php?action=downloads;cat=20

Humminbird_Greg · « **Reply #30 on:** June 27, 2012, 03:32:49 PM »

I would need to know your repair ID number from the ticket that came back with your unit abuawaab.

Software downloads are available from the Humminbird web site as well. You have to register your unit to get to these.

abuawaab · « **Reply #31 on:** June 27, 2012, 09:16:34 PM »

Quote from: Humminbird_Greg on June 27, 2012, 03:32:49 PM

I would need to know your repair ID number from the ticket that came back with your unit abuawaab.

Software downloads are available from the Humminbird web site as well. You have to register your unit to get to these.

I hope to collect the unit later today and I'll send you the repair ID number.

The "link" in my question was not a URL but what I meant was "Is there any relation between the problems with the PCB components and the software update?"

abuawaab

abuawaab · « **Reply #32 on:** June 28, 2012, 09:29:07 AM »

Finally I got my unit from the post and just tested it.

The good news is that the original problem was solved and the unit no longer loops in a power up and shut down cycle.

The rest is bad news. The result are very disappointing to say the least.

The first thing I noticed is a persistent display message that says "Burn-In ContourXD Complete".
This message just appears everywhere.

[ Specified attachment is not available ]

The second thing I noticed is that the Chart Views and Chart Display Options are no where to be seen.
I put in my Navionics chart card in bot SD slots - it makes no difference. No chart Views or Options.

[ Specified attachment is not available ]

The third thing I noticed is that the unit came back with 5.700.

I can't be bothered to find out more issues.

There is no repair ID number on the paper that came back with the unit. But there are are many numbers - here they are:

Date : 6/15/2012
Order No : 6034641 SR
Pick Slip No : 41652671
Branch/Pit. : ESV

On the address there is also a number 105338 before my name.

As you can imagine I thoroughly frustrated and I hope I wont have to send it back again for repairs.
Greg, Please advise.

abuawaab.

sonar2000 · « **Reply #33 on:** June 28, 2012, 09:43:11 AM »

Call HB support and talk to them. They may have left some test code in your unit.
Or did not clear out their stuff.
I would think they would have shipped you the latest code also.

Call them. They should help you out. Be nice but persistent. Ask for a manager if you are not getting 1st level help.

You may have to go to your view screens and make sure some have not been left hidden..

Mostly it sounds like they (HB) did not restore your unit to consumer level.
Chuck

Humminbird_Greg · « **Reply #34 on:** June 28, 2012, 09:49:35 AM »

The Order Number is what I was needing abuawaab, but it does not look that will help your 898c Si unit. It looks like your unit has lost at least a part of its memory, though I am not sure why. You can try forcing the unit into the Normal opertaions mode:
- Power the unit on and while it is showing the Title Screen (says something like: “Humminbird 898c Si Combo”) press the MENU button and select “Normal” from the options it shows.
Short of using the unit like this, you will end up having to ship it back in.

abuawaab · « **Reply #35 on:** June 28, 2012, 10:03:25 AM »

Greg,

I use the unit for navigation as well and I can't do that now.
I send HB an email about all this and copied you with a scan copy of the pack slip.
is there anything you can do to help with the HB guys?
Can you send me the service manager's email? or can you forward my email to him/her?

Thanks,
abuawaab.

Humminbird_Greg · « **Reply #36 on:** June 28, 2012, 10:34:39 AM »

abuawaab, the Service Supervisor is the one who suggested trying to force the unit into the Normal mode. Did you try that and if so, did it work at all?
If it does not work at all than the only option is to return the unit to Humminbird as there is nothing that you can do from there to fix it.

abuawaab · « **Reply #37 on:** June 28, 2012, 10:48:47 AM »

Forcing the unit into normal mode as suggested removes the burn-in message but this is required every time the unit is powered up.
It is a bother but I suppose I could live with that.

However, the chart views and options are still missing. Any suggestions?

abuawaab.

Humminbird_Greg · « **Reply #38 on:** June 28, 2012, 11:46:09 AM »

The only thing that will fix it will be a trip back to the factory Service Center…

abuawaab · « **Reply #39 on:** June 28, 2012, 03:01:43 PM »

Some very good news guys.

Before sending it back, I wanted to try one thing.

The thing is, I have been doing the tests indoors - connecting the unit directly to an auxiliary battery - no other connections.
I've been doing this after the unit started the power up and down loop. It is peek summer and it's just too hot outside.

So, I decided to connect the unit to the boat's external GPS receiver and transducer and tested it again to see if the GPS and transducer connections would make a difference to the unit's logic.

Apparently it did and the results were very good.

1. The "burn-In" message did not appear at all.
2. The chart views and options became available.
3. The Navionics chart loaded correctly.

For me that's a very big relief.
I'm yet to test the unit out in the water. That will be some days later.
I hope there will be no more incidents like this.

I want to thank Greg, Sonar2000, ITGeek and everyone else who supported me on this terrible ordeal. Much appreciated.

Now that the Unit seems to be working normally, perhaps Greg can help me some more by following up on the causes of the initial problems.
I think some transparency will help all of us and instill the much needed confidence in HB's products and service.

Regards,
abuawaab.

Humminbird_Greg · « **Reply #40 on:** June 28, 2012, 03:31:03 PM »

According to the Tech code used the U603 was replaced. This is the programmed memory chip for the unit. It is what the software update files get wrote to when you update the unit. We do not know why the chip itself failed.

abuawaab · « **Reply #41 on:** October 19, 2012, 03:01:49 PM »

I've been using my unit happily for a while and three weeks ago I upgraded the software to 6.420.
Yesterday on my return from a fishing trip, I deleted some waypoints and turned the unit off.

The unit got stuck with a shutting down message on the screen.
After a very very long time I disconnected the power and switched the unit on again.

It would not start. After several attempts, I disconnected the unit and returned home feeling very frustrated.
At home, after cleaning the boat, I removed all sdcards and powered on the unit and it loaded successfully.
That was a big relief. I deleted all navigation data and reformatted the navigation files.

I guess that individual waypoint deletion has a bug in the software. My initial problem, a few months ago, was also caused by a waypoint deletion.
Also, I guess that 6.420 is able to recover from the corruption of the navigation files and the option to reformat them is nice - as long as the unit can boot up successfully.

abuawaab.

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