Topic: Questions on rigging a fishfinder,transducer ETC. Triton 189 DCF

[dogridgekraus]

Hi,
Im really hopeing someone can help me.This has been more of a saga than I anticipated...Just wanna get this gem rigged right so PLEASE help if you can.Thanks!
My boat is a Triton 189 DCF(walleye)
 I have a hummingbird 798 ci SI hd GPS combo.
 I mounted the transducer for it on a piece of starboard that the previouse owner had installed & had his transducer bolted to.
 I mounted the tranducer from the hummingbird I mentioned above as an upgrade.
 Problem is,its a step hull.
 It interefiers with the outboards in the SI mode & is useless at any speed above idle.
 I guess that would explain why he had a shoot thru hull transducer on it to.

 Ive researched this a lot already & have ideas but thats about it.It seems to be an issue for a lot of people.I guess this is my luck...

 One was to glue a plastic or hard polyurethane board (Of a hard 95 durometer)to the bottom step to bolt the transducer on.
Or glue it horizontally adjacent to the vertical location suggested in the pic to screw the tranducer to.( I would use a tranducer shield saver if I was to go vertical.I don't know what would be best there? Though the SI transducer mounting bracket is for a vertical application I think? So that's why I suggested the transducer shield saver mount that's meant to be mounted on a trolling motor but I think I could modify it to work for a horizontal application.
Be nice to be able to find a way to make it adjustable for fine tuning.
Either way I don't think it would be good to make it extend down below the bottom of the hull line?
 Really don't want to drill,especially when I don't know what & where is right for this. I don't want to epoxy a board on the wrong place either.

 Ive read about cavitation issues a poorly mounted transducer can cause.I don't know if any of my ideas would cause such issues?? Worries me though...

 Problem with the bottom step is there is cuvature inwards towards the center till it meets the bildge area.
 Or possibly glue one horizontally adjacent to the step & mount the transducer to it there.
 Theres curvature horizontally to.

 I guess it could Shim the transducer so it runs true to the board(to accommodate curvature) I thought about epoxying to the hull.

 Another Idea was to mount it in front of the outboard provided I could possibly fashion a bracket to mount to the outboard & extend the mount just in front under the first step similar as guys do with jackplates.Though my boat has no jackplate.

 

-Another place I thought about mounting in fron of the lowest step was horizontally using a transducer shield mount,I don't have a pic of that idea but it would be just behind the one you see where im holding the DI tranducer vertically on the step.


 Sorrey if the pics aint the best in the link I attached below.The hull is black underneath making it difficult & just hard to show the angles of everything with the pics.I hope they can give you some idea to maybe give me a way to go...

 Note im holding a DI transducer jn some of the pics just to kinda show the general vicinity.
 I have a pic with the SI ducer where its mounted:

http://www.walleyecentral.com/forums...p?albumid=3610


 Heres a link to an istall a guy did on a ranger that gave me the ideas I mentioned:

http://www.walleyecentral.com/forums...d.php?t=178891

Ill try to find the link to one I seen mounted horizontally.Maybe someone knows what I mean there?


Question/advice if I go to a larger screen unit:


- a friend told me id be much happier with a larger screen unit.


The main reaon I went with the 798 at the time was I thought I had to get a smaller unit since its a bit cluttered at the helm.Ill try to send you a pic showing that to later & maybe you could give me some ideas if I could use a larger unit  there.


Heres a pics again its not the best but it where I have the 798 mounted on a smaller ram mount:


http://www.walleyecentral.com/forums/album.php?albumid=3226&pictureid=34010

-II talked with a guy on walleye central & told him about my 798.He said to use the shoot thru hull transducer that come with it? Mine didn't come with one though maybe hes wrong...IDK...If that's the case it may be too late for me to take that up with the ebay seller now.So did they come with one?Do I need one?

It has a shoot through hull transducer for a garmin 240 blue that was being used.Is there a way I could make that work?
I heard theres a manufacturer,Amier I think that makes universal transducers to work with a number of units.So that whay I thought that would be worth looking into if I could do that & save a lot of work/aggrevation & $.

I really hope you can help me figure this out or mind me sending you this discourse.
 
I appreciate it.Thanks;


Marty

[Humminbird_Greg]

Welcome to the Humminbird Side imaging Forums Marty.

Only the last picture you linked to was viewable by me.  So please take some pictures of the areas you are thinking about mounting the Si transducer.  I expect that the inside-the-hull 2D sonar transducer (XP-9-20) and AS-Si-DB-Y cable would work better for your boat.

The “shoot through hull” transducer did not come with the 798 units.

[dogridgekraus]

Ok,ive tried to add the pics.I hope this works.
Maybe my last post was too long.Sorrey again,all...Just hard to describe & keep it simple since this is more complicated than I anticipated.
Sorrey if the pics are not the best,Kinda hard to get the right shot..please let me know if you need more & what I could do to make them better if needed.
Hope this gives a better idea for:
Transducer locations,remedys ETC.
-I have a garmin 240 blue shown in a couple of pics( about the size as a 798 that I have there now) Question is could I get a hummingbird 1199 to fit there some way? Would a ram mount with a long arm work?
Thanks again for anyone input!
Marty

[Humminbird_Greg]

Marty,
In the first and third pictures it looks like you are holding one of our DI transducers (XNT-9-DI-T), but your seventh picture looks like a Compact Side Imaging (CSi, XNT-9-Si-180-T) transducer.  This is for the 798 unit right?  If so, where does the DI transducer come into this?

Try backing off some on the pictures as we need to be able to see more of the surroundings.  Maybe take them outside in natural sunlight?

[dogridgekraus]

Im sorrey,
I know its a DI transducer...
I thought I noted (Initially) that it is a DI transducer that I was just using in the pics as an idea of where to put the SI transducer.
The SI transducer is bolted to the piece of starboard on the back of the transom.Didnt see the need to remove & basically pretending the DI transducer is the SI transducer.Understand now? Sorrey for the confusion again.
Ill try to get some better pics.I kinda thought after reviewing them that they may not be adequate.
It may be difficult to get better.It just seemed not matter what angle I took & what not I couldn't get the whole "picture" in one shot.
Ill try again but if you can give me any Ideas in the mean time id appreciate it.
Thanks again;
Marty

[Humminbird_Greg]

I'll wait for pictures of the overall transom area but it looks to me like you could install it below and next to the motor mount. Hard to tell if there is enough room or if it is flat in that location.  The XP-9-20 inside-the-hull transducer and AS-Si-DB-Y cable will be needed for that.

[dogridgekraus]

I have some more pics now...
I some of them im holding a lure box this time similar in size to a SI ducer.
-In one of the pics I have the lure box held in a location(on the first shallow step down maybe 2" deep) I was going to try & fadricate a mount that would bolt to the bottom of the motor mount & extend the transducer below the lower step.
The step goes back about 6" -7" in,so if I can make a bracket that would get it there I wouldn't have to worrey about the outboard hitting the ducer.
-I don't think this would cause any cavitation or prop slip issues since it the first step down & would be out of the water on plane anyway.It would be directly in front of the motor though,& down below the step a bit since the first step is only maybe 2" deep.Will this idea I have possibly cause any problems?
The good side of it is if it does cause problems it can always be undone.Unbolt the bracket that I would fabricate for it & start over.
I had thought about epoxying a board of plastic or polyurethane either horizontally or vertically lower.& fixing the transducer to that.But theres a lot of curvature that would make it hard to epoxy a board to.Thus being lower could put the transducer in harms way more maybe.I guess it would possibly read at higher speeds as some guys ive read who mount it down low like that do.
I surely hope the pics help more this time...
Thanks

[Humminbird_Greg]

That sounds like a plan Marty, though I would only put that transducer as low as I had to just to keep it out of the way of the motor and to not expose it any more than I had to.  That will also keep any cavitation down as well.

[dogridgekraus]

That sounds like a plan Marty, though I would only put that transducer as low as I had to just to keep it out of the way of the motor and to not expose it any more than I had to.  That will also keep any cavitation down as well.

Thanks Greg,
I hope the pics were better for you this time...Is there a way you can X the vicinity you thought was a good idea?
I was hopeing I had some of the right ideas...However im not sure what idea I had you was quoteing on when you said;
" that sounds like a plan" ??
The idea I had of fabricateing a mount to bolt to the holes where the anode is below the motor & extend it under the 1st step as much as possible?
Or epoxying a board down low on the second step or adjacent to it horizontally then bolting it to the (synthetic boad) somehow.?? The plus side to there is I would get better reading at higher speeds where as up on the 1st step im sure it would just lift it out.I guess the plus side being up is the ducer is out of harms way.
Again,Just want to be sure if I go there ill have it directly in front of the motor,so you agree its likely it wont cause cavitation issues then,there?
Any of these ways then? From what ive researched on similar step hull designs these are the ideas ive gotton from varicose resources.IDK
I really hope im NOT wearing you out here...
Im thinking on getting a 1198 for the console instead of using the 798 now,Q: is the transducer for the 1198 different than the 798's SI ducer? Just want to know if I get started on fashioning a bracket that would work?
Q: Is the 1198 as good as the 1199? I think the one I found is a older modle but its still new...

I wanted to network it with sonar at the bow( I thought a 859 ci HD for the US2 on trolling motor) to & eventually go with I pilot link.If you have any recommendations as to what I should get id appreciate it??
Don't want to waste more money or spend too much if you can help.
 I feel I may have wasted money for the 798 since I hear you cant network it like you can 800-1100 units?
I really don't understand all of the termanolgy,just ideas from friends/forums ETC.
Much appreciated!Thank You!
Marty

[Humminbird_Greg]

This is the plan I was meaning Marty: “The idea I had of fabricateing a mount to bolt to the holes where the anode is below the motor & extend it under the 1st step as much as possible?”
Even better would be to make that mount so that it would hold the transducer off to one side and not directly in front of the motor so to lessen any possible cavitation issues, because there is no way to know if you will have any until everything is mounted and you test it out.

The standard transducer for all of the 798 units was the XNT-9-Si-180-T Compact Side Imaging (CSi) transducer.  It is shorter and uses different mounting hardware than does the XHS-9-HDSi-180-T (HDSi) transducer that gets shipped with the 1198 and 1199 units.

“Q: Is the 1198 as good as the 1199?”
I like to think so but then the next model that replaces the 1199 should be “as good as” or better than the 1199.  Sonar wise there shouldn’t be any differences as long as both units are running about the same version of software.  When it comes to using the larger mapping cards and sharing data over an Ethernet network, the 1199 should be better.  If you install another unit that ends in a “9” (Example the 859ci HD you stated), it could be used to display the Si sonar from the 1199ci HD Si unit.

Your bow unit really depends on what size display you want up front, what sonar you want up front, what Ethernet connectivity and how deep your pockets are.

We can help you understand the terminology.

[dogridgekraus]

Thanks Greg,
Your really took time to answer all of my questions,so im sorrey if im kinda repeating myself(in advance)just want to be sure as possible before I pull the trigger on any idea.You were ver informative though.

Ok I know the location your referring to,to try now...You say off to the side,Problem is the flat area below is probably im guessing 10" wide that I could mount it as I stated.I don't think the bracket im thinking on would be as strong if I put it off to the side & it wouldn't be much since theres only like 10".
Down the next step theres the intakes for the livewells ETC & they are directly in front of the motor(& don't cause cavitation issues) so that's why I thought centering it up above on the first step probably wouldn't make much diff & would look right.
Sounds like you have a shadow of a doubt about that though??I know you know best...
 I think ive seen transducers placed in front of the outboard in similar fashion but was using a jackplate though.
Beings it would be down lower there would I get better readings above 5 mph? I don't have to have WOT readings with the SI ducer as some want(be nice though) I guess it would be protected better there though right?
I was worried since I based this Idea for the 798 ducer how much longer is the ducer for a 1199 I was thinking on going with over the 798 ducer.The space was tight when the motor was trimmed all the way in maybe 3" from the transom there.If its that much different I may have to "scrap" that idea we agreed on.Lets hope not...
Im still torn on the ideas I had on getting the ducer down lower as I was initially thinking since I hear people have been able to get higher speed readings that way.If I was to use a transducer shield saver mount it might help protect it better there.
I was still curiouse about my options down lower if you had any suggestions as to what ive told/showed you about going lower?
I do have more questions,but ill save them for later.Its great to finally feel im on a site where youll find someone who really cares!
Thanks again;
Marty

[Humminbird_Greg]

Not a problem with repeating yourself before doing this Marty.

I should have done this yesterday but below is the location and what I was thinking for the transducer mount.  You will need a second transducer installed inside of the hull for high speed 2D sonar readings (XP-9-20 transducer and AS-Si-DB-Y cable).  Off to the side like this will allow for the longer HDSi transducer and will help with any possible cavitation issues.  Mounting it here will also help keep it out of the way from hitting as many things in the water then if it were lower.

The 798’s CSi transducer sticks out about 4.5 inches when mounted to the transom while the HDSi transducer sticks out almost 6.5 inches.

[dogridgekraus]

Thanks Greg,
You are very helpful & informative!
Im glad to finally have a plan to go with! Looks like I need to get the 1199 or 1198 & ducer for it to base the fabrication for that SI unit.Hope I can do a nice job of that.

Q:Instead of the xp-9-20 ducer & cable Is there any chance I could get the garmin ducer(that is already epoxyed in) To
work instead? I recall the previose owner talking about how much fun it was to install.I could take a chance & butcher a hummingbird as-si-db-y cable & solder & shrink wrap if it has the same type/amount of wires going to it?
I didn't think it had to be that specific since theres a manufactures that make universal sonar that works for a number of brands.Thats why I thought it was worth giving it a shot & save time/aggrevation...Maybe not though depends on your opinion?
I think theres a manufacturer Aimar that makes a similar type of glass in hull ducer that would work with most brands to.
Or is the hummingbird units work the best with there sonar? I would assume yes however a shoot through hull ducer still don't compare in detail like a regular(in water dual beam skimmer) right? There pretty much for just depth reading right? Or are they sensitive enough to graph fish at high speeds? (that would be nice)
I wasn't real impressed with the garmin one but it did give a depth reading I know from what little I used it.
-Im also worried if I run into probs with the boat having a foam core.
-If I cant use the garmin ducer could I glass the next one next to where it was of would you remove the old one?
IDK if the previose owner properly installed it or not for sure.It sounds like a pain to try to test it first.From what ive read some of the methods for testing doesn't always work out rather than if it was really glassed in then worked right when the test didn't. One of the test was filling the bottom of the hull with water.
At worst if I had to do that id hope I could just remove the old one & reglass in the new one & it work,In a perfect world I guess...Its way down there & cant even see it,looks like another headach...

Q: You gave me a for instance about networking sonar"if it ends in 9 I can network it with an 1199-800 series I think I understood.So does that mean (for instance) if I had a 1198 I could link it with 700 series & up ending with an 8 ? I think I understand & may have learned something...
At least I think you may have saved me from making a possible mistake like say I buy the 1199 & didn't know better about networking & bought a 858 for the bow then I would have wated my money if my intentions were to network them?
Thanks again for steering me away from making the wrong purchase!
I feel I may have done that with the 798...Maybe if I bought a 1198 instead I could use it with that era?
-The one thing I don't like about the 1198(whitch may not be a big deal?) is the external puck.The internal on the newer modles seem simpler but IDK witch is better? I think ive read of probs with the pucks. But I guess that would be a way to maybe salvage the 798 in this setup & save money.
I think the 798 would work with the US2 on the TM?
-Is the detail on the graph with US2 good? I have a 597 & the detail is so good I can actually see my bait the whole time.Im really hopeing the US2 sonar is close to that?

 I have plans to do I pilot link to,later though I want to have it ready to go or add to get there though.
Q: With I pilot link do I have to buy a specific chip for it.I have one navgonics chip already but don't know if its I pilot link compatible.It looks like you have to have a chip for each unit if you want to be able to use both for I pilot controls even if I had them networked.I hope you can shed some light there to.

Thanks again! This would be much more difficult without your help!
Marty

[Humminbird_Greg]

Marty are you sure you want to deny yourself of all the fun of taking out one inside-the-hull transducer and replacing it with another? LOL!  I don’t know of any commercially available Garmin to Humminbird transducer adapter, so I think that you are stuck with installing the XP-9-20.  I also don’t know anything about the Garmin transducers as to the wiring or pinout of their connectors or even if their transducers have the same frequencies, beam angle or gain.  Those universal transducers are designed to work with multiple brands.  The one in your hull now probably was not.  I just think that it could end up being a lot more work for nothing or for a marginally performing transducer.  A properly installed inside-the-hull transducer will lose some sensitivity but most fishermen would never be able to see the difference on their sonar units.  Now, do a mediocre job and you will get mediocre results.  Depending on how good of a job is done during installation; you should be able to see some fish at higher boat speeds.  However, some of that will also depend on the fish and water conditions.

Inside-the-hull transducers do not work in boats with foam cores unless you use something to drill through the top layer, take out the foam and fill the whole thing up with the transducer and epoxy (I helped with one of these).

You do not have to remove the Garmin transducer as long as you can test and find a good location for the new transducer.

The ONLY test is to add enough water to the inside of the hull of the boat (to partially cover the transducer so that the sonar signal gets coupled to the hull) and test at various boats speeds – otherwise you are just making a guess!  Even two boats of the same boat make and model will have different locations for an inside-the-hull transducer.  Believe me, I helped rig 30 boats for a charity event and although the transducer was in about the same location in each one, each required a trip out on the water to get the best results.

You have to watch it on the 700 series units and Etherneting.  The units have to be 7XX HD type units or they will not have the Ethernet capability.
Any 800, 900 or 1100 series units that ends in an 8 or 9 can be Ethernet connected.  If both units have a model name ending in 9, they can share all sonar with each other.  Example: If an 1199ci HD Si and a 859ci HD DI model were Ethernet connected the 1199 could display the 2D and DI sonar of the 859c HD DI unit and the 859c HD DI unit could display the 2D and Si sonar of the 199 unit.  The 1198c Si model can share its sonar with other units but unless it is another Si model unit it will only be able to share the 2D sonar.

I like the external GPS Receivers because it allows me to position the GPS Receiver as close to over the transducer as I can get it.  This eliminates some of the installation induced error when marking and going back to waypoints.  For a bow mounted unit, the internal is okay in my book as it is pretty close to being over a trolling motor transducer.

The 798 can use the built-in US2 transducer but it will only have the 2D sonar capability – no Si/Di sonar.  I have not used a US2 but I have heard that the detail is as good as our standard 2D sonar which is what your 597 had.

If you are going to add iPilotLink to your setup, you will end up needing an AS-ETH-5PXG 5-Port Ethernet Switch to connect it to your two Ethernet connected units.  The iPilotLink only works with the Huimminbird-LakeMaster, AutoChart, and ChartSelect mapping cards.

[dogridgekraus]

I like how you put it & your sense of humor Greg,

Your right theres no sense in getting a nice sonar unit & then trying to cut corners & remove all doubt...

I really haven't had much luck yet with triton as of figuring out if my hull is foam core in the vacintiy of where id want to place the in hull ducer.Since my boat is a 2001 No dealer Ive contacted really seem to know or care...I guess I need to buy a $50.000 boat from them for them to act like they care...

Q:Since you've delt with this scenario-How do you figure out if it has a foam core or not  in the desired area?
I really don't want to hack it up or just start cutting to see yaknow.If it did have a foam core cutting through the first layer could be a risk breaking through not?
 Im really hopeing its not & this will be easyer them im fretting over...

I really don't have any way of contacting the original owner who had the ducer used for the garmin  already installed & his knowledge/imput of what he know about the hull & how carefully installation was done right or not...

-I am tempted to assume he did it right & just remove his then install the new one.Its a one shot deal epoxying in a ducer though,id think ill have to destroy/damage the ducer to remove.
After reading what you said about the 30 boats you had worked on that were the same & differences Its not worth trying to save yourself the hassle.
Sounds complicated not sure if I will be able to make the right determination there??

-Ive never done this type of installation before so im not really sure how to do it other than what ive read.
Id guess id back my boat in the water with the plug out then pull it out quickly & plug it then just lay the ducer where down there? Wont it like move around? Maybe duct tape it down first...

 I really cant pay someoneelse to do this either but I am handy...
Just not sure what to expect sonar reading wise & being able to asscertain it & decide location appropriatelly...
 

Q:If your sonar has a internal GPS antenna could a puck still be used if desired?
I believe my 798 SI DI has a internal GPS anntenna but my friends 1198 SI DI does not?

 Im sorrey in advance again, if in a slow learner,I may be confused again...
-Im not sure I know what type of units  to network whats needed for what & get what I desire...
 I have to go through this again so I don't want to waste money on a undesirable sonar unit,accessories ETC.
-Lets say I have either the 1199 or 1198(both HD SI modles) at the console & was going to network it with a unit at the bow.
Will the sonar at the bow share the SI or DI readings with a unit (at the bow)that does not have SI or DI? Like lets say its a 859 ci HD? I thought it would simplify things if I was to just use the TM US2 & just networked.

I thought I understood you could share sonar readings from a SI DI to a non SI DI modle between 800-1100's? And they must both end in the same number to now, T or F?
So a 1199 wont network with a 858?
-The 798 I have Has SI & DI so I guess that means its a HD modle? Would I be able to network that with a 1198 SI?

-Ok you say I need a 5 port Ethernet AS-ETH-5PXG-Cost? Is that just for the I pilot link? Can it be used to network sonar?
Do I need any special wireing to network sonar.Does 5 port mean up to 5 units?
-I don't have I pilot yet,What do I need just for I pilot?What do I need to just network now? Or do you need to just get set up for it all right away if I have intentions in the future for I pilot link?

I guess that all I can think of for today...

Thanks for you help/support Greg,Your great!
Have a good one;
Marty

[Humminbird_Greg]

Marty,
The way I figure out if the boat has a foam cored hull (or something else undesirable within the hull where the transducer will be installed) is to test it on the water.  A foam cored hull or an internal runner will cause a severe loss of sensitivity which is noticeable on the 2D sonar.

Use something like a ziplock bag of gravel, dirt or sand to hold the transducer in place.  This lets you move it around to get the strongest readings.  Sometimes you get lucky and there is a bilge pump or baitwell hose that you can stuff the transducer under.  I would use a bottle or bucket to dip water and pour it into the hull.  You only need enough to cover partway up the side of the transducer.  Do a search of the forum here as I would bet someone has put together a good article or ‘how-to’ on this.  If not, send me a direct e-mail and I can send you a document I wrote in this.  Just be sure to test the location and not assume that just because there was a transducer already there that it will work.  I’ve heard from thousands of fishermen who had “professionals” install their inside-the-hull transducers only to find out later that they were not installed in a location that works.  One thing that almost never gets mentioned is the air temperature.  Epoxies are made to cure at certain temperatures, so if it’s still freezing up there you will want to do this in a garage or other enclosed area where you can maintain the temperature of everything as close to 77 degrees as possible.  The cure time for our epoxy that comes with the XP-9-20 and other inside-the-hull transducers, is 24 hours at 77 degrees (48 hours at 60 degrees).

To remove the Garmin transducer just whack it with a hammer or if you want to try and keep it a mallet or a piece of wood against the transducer and whack the other end with the hammer/mallet.  You want to direct the force of the blow across the direction of the hull and not down into it.  They typically will pop right out.  Be sure to remove all of the old epoxy and any coatings on the fiberglass.  You want to epoxy straight to naked fiberglass.

“Q:If your sonar has a internal GPS antenna could a puck still be used if desired?”
That depends on the model of the sonar-GPS unit.  The 798 and 1198 units can use an external GPS Receiver even if they have an internal one.

No problem with the networked unit questions as this is something that has changed with new unit models and software as well – it’s still confusing to me too.  It is best to take these parings one at a time:
- If you had an 1198c Si (there never was an “HD” model of the 1198, they were all the same) unit at the console and an 859ci HD unit at the bow; both units would be able to share only the 200/83kHz 2D sonar form each of their transducers.
- If you had an 1199ci HD Si unit at the console and an 859ci HD unit at the bow; the 1199ci HD Si unit would be able to share its 455/800kHz Si sonar and its 200/83kHz 2D sonar.  The unit model numbers that end with “9” can share more sonar information with another unit model number that also ends with a “9” than can other combinations.

The only ways to know if your 798 unit is an “HD” or not is to either look at the connectors on the unit for the Ethernet connector or power it on and see whether it shows “798ci SI” or “798ci HD SI” on the start-up Title Screen.  If it is an “HD” model that only means that it has an LED backlit display (older models used a CCFL type backlight, LED is better) and it has Ethernet capability.  I know it’s confusing… If it is an HD version unit it can be networked with any other Ethernet capable unit.  Networked with the 1198c Si they would only be able to share the 455kHz Si sonar and 200/83kHz 2D sonar data.  None of the 798 units had the 800kHz sonar circuitry so it could not be added or shared with them.

The AS-ETH-5PXG 5-Port Ethernet Switch is used to share an Ethernet connection between more than two and up to five Ethernet capable devices (if you only had to connect two you could direct connect them).  Since you will have a bow and console mounted Ethernet units, you will need a third connection to connect them together with the iPilotLink and so need to connect everything to the 5-Port Ethernet Switch.

Sonar can be shared over an Ethernet connection, no extra or special cables for this.

You could just go with a direct Ethernet connection between your two sonar units for now if you wanted to and add the iPilotLink and 5-Port Ethernet Switch later of you wanted to.  If I knew that I was going to add something later and I had the money now for the 5-Port Ethernet Switch, I would go ahead and get it and have it installed ready to go.  Part of the reason for that is in the cables need to do either of these.  To direct connect two units you will need an Ethernet Connection Cable that will reach between them.  Say this is a 20-foot cable.  You get it and install it and everything is good, then you buy the iPilotLink or something else that needs an Ethernet connection.  Now you need to run that original 20-fot cable to the 5-Port Ethernet Switch and buy an additional cable to go from the second unit to the 5-Port Ethernet Switch.  Depending on where the 5-Port Ethernet Switch is located you may have quite a bit of that original 20-foot cable sitting there to coil up and hope that it does not end up acting like an RF antennae.  I would rather go ahead and install the 5-Port Ethernet Switch and buy the cables to each unit that I will end up needing.  That and I don’t like to re-rig anything!  I had enough of that working on company boats.

The iPilotLink will need that third connection to your Ethernet network, so you will end up needing the 5-Port Ethernet Switch.  The iPilotLink comes with its own 30-foot long Ethernet Connection Cable, so if you had the 5-Port Ethernet Switch already installed all you would have to do is install the connection cable, power it up (install new software if needed) and go!

[dogridgekraus]

 Greg,
Thanks for the helpful tips on installing the XP-9-20 transducer.
Im glad you told me NOT to assume the ducer that's there is in a prime location.Ill scrap that idea then!
I really hope its not a foam core hull since im guessing you would have to take a guess on placement if that's the case?
Since you wouldn't want to be cutting multiple holes inside the hull to just try...
Maybe ill try to find a friend who can help when I do the testing.
With what you told me I should be able to figure it out.Whenever I get around to that so no sense in asking anymore there.

Ive read your answers carefully & im sure I need to read them again since its a lot to take in. I can see how even an expert like yourself can get a little confused every now & then.

I have some randome questions some of what we coverd but different angles...

I know now that the transducer for the 1199 & 1198 SI modles is different than the compact version on the 798 SI,question is:Will the 798 run (alone) with a (XTM 9 Hd SI for 1199 &1198) ? I just thought for now till I find the deal I could buy & mount the ducer (XTM 9 Hd SI) since the mount I make for it will have to be made to fit,just thought it was something I could do do to save time...IDK...

You say the 1199 HD means LED back lighting & the 1198 don't have it? Are you sure later modle 1198's didn't I seen a 1198 on ebay a guy had titled as an HD version.I know people do misprint on there on quite a few occasions though?

Sorrey to go through this again here-If when I get(I was thinking an 1199SI) & networked it to the 798 what sonar would the 1199 be able to share with the 798 SI? Now would a 1198 be able to share more with the 798 since they both end in 8?

Maybe I just need to try to sell the 798 & get it out of the picture if it wont be as easy to network with other units...Its small to & a friend told me once I go with a bigger screen unit I probably wont go back...

As you know ive been looking on ebay & seen some modles that I haven't seen yet that I wanted to ask you about just to get it straight:
-I seen a 1199 Cxi HD SI? What the difference between that & a 1199 ci HD SI?
-I seen some modle end in GOS, what does that mean?

So you say you would just go ahead & have it set up for the I pilot link since I have the intentions: I do now but all of what im looking at now is a pocket book drainer...Though like you said I don't like to rerig twice.
-Do I have to buy a separate cable for each unit to run to the 5 port Ethernet? Are these cables different than the cables used if I just networked the two units together?Still not sure what im gonna do there...
IDK for sure yet where I would put the 5 port Ethernet,I was thinking under the console somewhere?

I was looking at some of the ONIX units & what I discovered is that not all modles are touch screen.
I also read some where that the onix units only network with other onix units?
-Does ONIX have free mapping then? That would save $250-$500 in the cards required to purchase..If so can the free mapping be used with I pilot link? Just thought I may save money in other ways if I went that way...
-You have to get the humming bird cards for I pilot link right?
-What does Auto chart mean? Is it good for wherever you go? Is it exclusive with the ONIX?
-Are you better off to get the more expensive cards?
-I seen a feature called "Hot spots" on some of the mapping.Can you get a card that has that feature to work for the lowerend units other than the ONIX? Do some of the cheaper cards have that feature

I thought that with more research I would learn more but im getting more confused & feel like I jumped in a lake on all of this...
I gotta tell you again im really glad hummingbird has this forum & without your help id be LOST.
Thanks again Greg:
Marty

[Humminbird_Greg]

“Will the 798 run (alone) with a (XTM 9 Hd SI for 1199 &1198) ?”
Yes it will Marty.

“You say the 1199 HD means LED back lighting & the 1198 don't have it? Are you sure later modle 1198's didn't I seen a 1198 on ebay a guy had titled as an HD version.I know people do misprint on there on quite a few occasions though?”
The 1198 model units have always used the same display and LED backlighting.  There never was an “HD” version of the 1198 model units as they all already had LED backlighting and the 800kHz capability.

798ci HD Si and 1199ci HD Si units Ethernet connected can share 2D and 455kHz Si sonar data (the 798 model units are not capable of the 800kHz Si sonar and therefore cannot share it).  If you instead connected an 1198c Si model unit the sonar sharing would be the same as the restriction in both cases is the 798 unit.

“a friend told me once I go with a bigger screen unit I probably wont go back...”
This is probably true.

“I seen a 1199 Cxi HD SI? What the difference between that & a 1199 ci HD SI?”
The “X” indicates that this is an International version unit.  It has multiple languages and can display measurements using the metric system.  The maps that come preloaded in it will also be different as the domestic version (without the “X”) will have U.S.A. based ContourXD maps which the International (“X”) version will not.

“I seen some modle end in GOS, what does that mean?”
I think you had a typo there and meant “GPS”.  We haven’t used this much as we used to use “Combo” instead, so this may be a new naming trend for us, but it means that the unit comes with a GPS Receiver whether that be an internal one or an external one.   Examples: 1199ci HD SI Combo and HELIX 5 SI-GPS, both of these units come with an internal GPS, where the 1198c Si Combo came with an external GPS Receiver.

“Do I have to buy a separate cable for each unit to run to the 5 port Ethernet? Are these cables different than the cables used if I just networked the two units together?”
Yes you will need a separate cable for each unit that is run to the 5-Port Ethernet Switch.  Whether you are connecting only two units directly together or multiple units to a 5-Port Ethernet Switch, they all use the same Ethernet Connection Cables.  Even the Ethernet accessories like the 360 Imaging or iPilot Link use the same connection cables (they come with a 20 or 30-foot Ethernet Connection Cable).

“IDK for sure yet where I would put the 5 port Ethernet,I was thinking under the console somewhere?”
That would work.  The Installation Guide for the 5-Port Ethernet Switch says:
“INSTALLATION
1 | Determining the Mounting Location
The Ethernet Switch is designed to mount on any flat, level surface of your boat. Prior to installation, you must first determine where to mount the Ethernet Switch.”

“I was looking at some of the ONIX units & what I discovered is that not all modles are touch screen.”
Correct.  We came out with our “NT” non-touch models this year.  Not everyone likes or wants to touch the screen of their units.

“I also read some where that the onix units only network with other onix units?”
Correct.  ONIX units will only communicate with other ONIX units in an Ethernet network.

“Does ONIX have free mapping then? That would save $250-$500 in the cards required to purchase..If so can the free mapping be used with I pilot link? Just thought I may save money in other ways if I went that way...”
The ONIX units do come with preloaded maps but these are the same ContourXD maps that are in some of our other products like the 1199ci HD Si Combo unit.  If you want/need the additional detail that mapping cards like the LakeMaster maps have, you will either have to buy the mapping cards or make your own maps.

“You have to get the humming bird cards for I pilot link right?”
Yes, but this could mean the Humminbird-LakeMaster mapping cards, AutoChart/AutoChart Pro map cards, ChartSelect map cards or AutoChart Live maps (in the ONLIX units only).

“What does Auto chart mean? Is it good for wherever you go? Is it exclusive with the ONIX?”
AutoChart and AutoChart Pro are two versions of a computer based program that allows you to take Tracks and/or Sonar Recordings from your Humminbird unit and build your own custom maps that will work in and with your Humminbird unit (iPilot Link will work with the data from these maps).  The ONIX units can use these maps and can also make their own maps from the AutoChart Live feature that they have.

“Are you better off to get the more expensive cards?”
You will have to be more specific in what you are asking here.  Are you meaning mapping cards and if so that will depend on how you are going to use the data or whether you will use the additional data at all.

“I seen a feature called "Hot spots" on some of the mapping.Can you get a card that has that feature to work for the lowerend units other than the ONIX? Do some of the cheaper cards have that feature”
Can you be more specific on this is?

“I gotta tell you again im really glad hummingbird has this forum & without your help id be LOST.” 
Humminbird does not own or sponsor this forum.  I try and help out on here as long as I can get my normal job duties completed in a timely manner.  This is why I go missing for days or weeks at a time.  I’ll try and not get us both lost Marty. 

[dogridgekraus]

Hey Greg,

I read your last reply but I think im gonna have to take the time to read it a few more times before I think I have anything more to ask there.Besides I think I am overthinking this maybe & need to just (Try) to juggle a little less in my head for the time being...Besides I didn't know you was going above & beyond & just doing this just to be nice & help others in your spare time.Thanks again!

I was looking on ebay again for in hull transducer for the 1199.
I see some that say X P 9 20 & some say X P 9 20T,is there a difference there? Looks like they both say dual beam just don't want to be missing something...Its one of these I think you had mentioned...

Also I noticed a transducer that was a bit more expensive for in hull use (XP QB 90 T) will that work to? is it better?Recomended as well?
Its a quadra beam I think.Sounds better.lol...

Thanks:Marty

[Humminbird_Greg]

No problem with all the questions Marty, I can usually juggle my normal job duties to get them done and help out here as well.  If not, there are several guys on here that could step in and answer too.  Please take the time that you need to digest all of this as it can be quite complex and confusing at times…

The only difference between the XP-9-20 and the XP-9-20-T transducers is that the “T” means that there is a temperature sensor built into the transducer (or is on a 10-foot cable that comes out of the transducer as is the case with the XP-9-20-T).  The temperature for this transducer will not be connected to the unit due to the way that the AS-Si-DB-Y cable is made.  When using the AS-Si-DB-Y cable the temperature comes from the Si transducer.  So you can save a few dollars by going with the XP-9-20 version transducer.

The XP-QB-90-T is an inside-the-hull QuadraBeam transducer.  If you use the AS-Si-DB-Y cable the only electrical connection to this transducer will be the 200/83kHz 2D DualBeam portion of the transducer.  You will have spent more money on this transducer only to have it work just like the XP-9-20 200/83kHz 2D DualBeam transducer.  To be able to use the side beams of the QuadraBeam transducer you would have to use the TS3 Transducer Switch in place of the AS-Si-DB-Y cable and remember to physically toggle the switch each time you make a run on-plane and then back again when you want to see the Si sonar.  By the way I don’t think that we make these anymore as they are not on the Humminbird web site.

[dogridgekraus]

Hi Greg,
Do you know why hummingbird is not offering the XP-QB-90-T anymore?
I just thought it would be a better transducer to go with since it seemed better & was kinda like SI & kinda still have it.Its got me thinking...Or maybe I should just leave well enough alone...
Is there a special cable that could be used other than the AS-SI-DB-Y cable to make a XP-QB-90-T work without a switch?
Q:The SI on my 1199 is capable of dual beam as well right? Now How will I be able to tell what transducer im using if say,I was setting still & just using the dual beam?(Not sure how to ask that)
I just didn't think I would be spending much ( xp-qb-90-t) more to gain more .The XP-9-20 just seemed basic & I thought it might be more worthwhile to get something better.Maybe ist good enough & im over thinking...
Is there a better in hull transducer though??
 
Heres a link from ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/351372719005
It just looks like a DI transducer? I didn't know you could get though hull readings from a DI transducer? The images probably wouldn't be as good on an in hull as an external DI one.

I know hummingbird has a number of in hull transducers,I don't know all of them but if you have any other suggestions or different ideas? IDK I appreciate whatever you can tell.
Thanks!
Marty

[Humminbird_Greg]

Not certain on the XP-QB-90-T transducer Marty but I would hazard a guess that slow sales would be the reason.  I don’t think that the QuadraBeam transducers have been selling much since the introduction of the Side Imaging units.

The XP-9-QB-90-T would need a TS3 Transducer Switch or all that would get connected to the unit would be the standard 2D 200/83kHz DualBeam sonar when using the AS-Si-DB-Y cable.  There are no other connection cables that would be applicable for this.

The HDSi transducer that came with your 1199 unit has the same standard 2D 200/83kHz sonar in it that a DualBeam transducer, like the XP-9-20 or XNT-9-20-T, has.

Any Si unit that is connected to an AS-Si-DB-Y cable with an Si and DualBeam transducer attached will always get the 2D 200/83kHz DualBeam sonar from the transducer connected to the DualBeam side of the cable.  This is just a cable, there are no inner electronics or anything that would allow any connections to get switched during use.  The only way to have the 2D 200/83kHz DualBeam sonar change from one transducer to the other would be use of a Transducer Switch (TS3) or by manually unplugging one transducer from the unit and plugging the other one in.

“Is there a better in hull transducer though??”
That depends on what you mean by “better”.  Humminbird does not sell a transducer that is better suited for in-hull (inside-the-hull) mounting for most freshwater use.  There are companies that make transducers that will work with our products and may be better suited to your specific needs.

The eBay link you posted looks like a Down Imaging transducer because it is a DI transducer.  The XIH-9-DI-T transducer (http://www.humminbird.com/Products/XIH-9-DI-T/) is the same transducer as the XNT-9-DI-T that gets packed with the DI model units except that it comes with an epoxy kit and instructions for inside-the-hull mounting as opposed to transom mounting hardware and instructions.  The DI transducers can work as an inside-the-hull transducer because the DI and 2D sonar beams radiate out of the bottom of the transducer.  However, the temperature that will be shown will be from the inside of the boat hull and not the actual surface water temperature.  When properly mounted most fishermen would notice little to no difference between an inside-the-hull transducer and a transom mounted transducer.  If you are thinking about using a DI model transducer with your Si unit: http://www.humminbird.com/Category/Support/FAQ/DIxducerSIunit/

Unless you want something specific Marty, I would just stick with the XP-9-20 transducer and the AS-Si-DB-Y cable.

[dogridgekraus]

Greg,
So if I was to use the TS3 switch with the xp-9-qb-90-t transducer would I have full function of the quadra beam?
I read this old post on WC pg3 :
http://www.walleyecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=216153&highlight=humminbird+quadra+beam+transducer&page=3

From what I gathered there is I still would only have the dual beam capabilitys.Maybe they wernt referring it set up with the a the ts3 switch & just the as-si-db-y cable is why it wouldn't work as intended I think?

I thought I understood from you from a previouse post that the (xp-9-qb-90-t) would work with the use of the TS3 switch or if I used the as-si-db-y cable I would only have the dual beam function , right?

Would my 1199 recognize & show quadra beam on the sonar menue (used in conjuction with the ts3 switch)?

I kinda like the idea of having the switch just to have the option of being able to use the "in hull" sonar(be it single beam or quadra beam) or be able to switch to the sonar from the SI transducer.If I wasn't running down the lake at WOT & wanted to look at the dual beam sonar from the SI transducer I would have that option to then.You would be able to utilize all of the sonar from both transducers with the ts3 switch,right?

Just seems like more sonar options with the ts3 switch.It don't seem like it would be that big of a deal flipping a switch,no differnet than pushing buttons on the sonar unit.

Now does the TS3 switch come with the necessary cable's to do the install?

Surely going with the XP-9-20 & th as-si-db-y cable is the cheapest & most common from what ive read.I may still do just that just want to explore all possibilitys,learn(if possible.lol)

It seems a shame that hummingbird is doing away with the quadrabeam options.It seemed like another edge they had over other manufacturers.Maybe its just not all it was cracked up to be...Seemed kinda like a cheap SI sonar in different detail that could show fish over the si easyer.I know with my DI sonar on my 597 its harder for me to see fish rather than when I use the duakbeam but rather you can see the detail of whats down there structure wise but not so much fish wise has been my experience.Im not expert though as you know maybe its just a matter of knowing how to tweak the DI or be it SI to easily show fish.

Thanks again Greg! Hope you have a good weekend;
Marty

[dogridgekraus]

Greg,
I just received my tranducer shield save bracket for the SI ducer for the 1199 & see a few problems I may have with installation.
Its too long to do what I wanted to.If I try too tuck it under the first step it looks like its going to stick out too far.
Beings the step is only like 2' deep & maybe 4-5' in to the step.I was thinking I could still go with the sam idea only it would be lower almost like it was setting under the longer(horizontal) part of the second step.Just behind the screened intakes.
This way it wouldn't be sticking outside the transom & still be safe I just hope it wouldn't cause cavitation issues.

I hope you don't think that's too low?

It will still be higher than the very bottom of the last step.

Gosh im almost as intimidated about how to go about this as I was when I first started...
I guess complications are to be expected...

If you care to look over the pics I had earlier if you understand what the issues I mentioned if you understand or if you have any different areas to circle as a suggestion,then id be happy to see.

I was thinking again to,about the idea I had had about epoxying a synthetic board to attach it too but really didn't want to given the situation of curvatures horizontally.

Ill attach extra pics if needed.

Maybe ill have figured something to do by the time you read this.

Thanks Greg;
Marty

[Humminbird_Greg]

Greg,
So if I was to use the TS3 switch with the xp-9-qb-90-t transducer would I have full function of the quadra beam?
I read this old post on WC pg3 :
http://www.walleyecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=216153&highlight=humminbird+quadra+beam+transducer&page=3

From what I gathered there is I still would only have the dual beam capabilitys.Maybe they wernt referring it set up with the a the ts3 switch & just the as-si-db-y cable is why it wouldn't work as intended I think?

I thought I understood from you from a previouse post that the (xp-9-qb-90-t) would work with the use of the TS3 switch or if I used the as-si-db-y cable I would only have the dual beam function , right?

Would my 1199 recognize & show quadra beam on the sonar menue (used in conjuction with the ts3 switch)?

I kinda like the idea of having the switch just to have the option of being able to use the "in hull" sonar(be it single beam or quadra beam) or be able to switch to the sonar from the SI transducer.If I wasn't running down the lake at WOT & wanted to look at the dual beam sonar from the SI transducer I would have that option to then.You would be able to utilize all of the sonar from both transducers with the ts3 switch,right?

Just seems like more sonar options with the ts3 switch.It don't seem like it would be that big of a deal flipping a switch,no differnet than pushing buttons on the sonar unit.

Now does the TS3 switch come with the necessary cable's to do the install?

Surely going with the XP-9-20 & th as-si-db-y cable is the cheapest & most common from what ive read.I may still do just that just want to explore all possibilitys,learn(if possible.lol)

It seems a shame that hummingbird is doing away with the quadrabeam options.It seemed like another edge they had over other manufacturers.Maybe its just not all it was cracked up to be...Seemed kinda like a cheap SI sonar in different detail that could show fish over the si easyer.I know with my DI sonar on my 597 its harder for me to see fish rather than when I use the duakbeam but rather you can see the detail of whats down there structure wise but not so much fish wise has been my experience.Im not expert though as you know maybe its just a matter of knowing how to tweak the DI or be it SI to easily show fish.

Thanks again Greg! Hope you have a good weekend;
Marty

Marty,
You are correct in that if you used the TS3 Transducer Switch, you would be able to utilize the full sonar capabilities of the second transducer, be it a DualBeam or QuadraBeam transducer.  You would also be able to see the 2D sonar from your transom mounted Si transducer.  The TS3 does come with all need cables for the install.

If you used the TS3 Transducer Switch you would have to either go to the Connected Transducer menu and select the “Quad Beam” menu setting to see the side beam sonar from the QuadraBeam transducer or just opt to view it as the Si sonar (it will not look anywhere as good as the Si sonar though).

You are correct in that with a thinner (front-to-rear) sonar beam you can distinguish structure better but cannot mark fish as easily.  With a wider (front-to-rear) sonar beam you can mark fish easier but cannot distinguish structure as easily.  Your DI sonar has a narrow front-to-rear beam, while your 2D sonar does not.  Sonar, like so many other things in life, is always a trade-off.  Where you gain in one area and you give in another.

[Humminbird_Greg]

Greg,
I just received my tranducer shield save bracket for the SI ducer for the 1199 & see a few problems I may have with installation.
Its too long to do what I wanted to.If I try too tuck it under the first step it looks like its going to stick out too far.
Beings the step is only like 2' deep & maybe 4-5' in to the step.I was thinking I could still go with the sam idea only it would be lower almost like it was setting under the longer(horizontal) part of the second step.Just behind the screened intakes.
This way it wouldn't be sticking outside the transom & still be safe I just hope it wouldn't cause cavitation issues.

I hope you don't think that's too low?

It will still be higher than the very bottom of the last step.

Gosh im almost as intimidated about how to go about this as I was when I first started...
I guess complications are to be expected...

If you care to look over the pics I had earlier if you understand what the issues I mentioned if you understand or if you have any different areas to circle as a suggestion,then id be happy to see.

I was thinking again to,about the idea I had had about epoxying a synthetic board to attach it too but really didn't want to given the situation of curvatures horizontally.

Ill attach extra pics if needed.

Maybe ill have figured something to do by the time you read this.

Thanks Greg;
Marty

Marty,
I think that I would still try and install the transducer there even if it meant lowering it down so it could be extended forwards under the next step down.

[dogridgekraus]

Ok Greg,
Ill try to stick with the plan we both agreed on with the SI transducer for my 1199 & hope it works.
I call a triton rep today & asked questions reguarding wether my boat has a foam core hull with concerns on mounting a in hull transducer.He said some of the boat is a foam core hull but not down there & to stay away from the bilge & off to one side.

From what I can see guessing Theres only about a area that's less than 10"wide x 12"long then theres the gas tank.Thats really not much to play around with...

Q: If I go with the TS3 switch & whay ever transducer is it more complicated than if I just went with the ASDBY cable?
You metioned I would have to go into the menue & set the sonar to?

Q:If I wanted to go with di sonar for the in hull ducer;Theres the standard xnt-9-di-t then theres the xtm-9 wide-di-20-t.
I may have heard/read from you somewhere the the dual beam sonar isn't as good/strong with the standard unit?
Is the dual beam sonard any better with the xtm-9 wide-di-t? I thought about using one of those as my in hull ducer?
And as you know I was considering the quadrabeam.Whitch one of the 2 would you choes ont of those to types of ducers?eam & still have DB.
The xtm-9 wide-DI-T looks bigger & maybe it would have better dual beam was my thinking.

Its just hard for me to make un my mind here between the 2 ducers.

Q:On the quadra beam ducer can you view a full screen of either of the 2 sonars? Or is it always split up like shown?
Would it pick up fish better than a si ducer beings it jjust the standard sonar?
 a
Thanks Greg hopr your having a good day:
Marty

The one reason I was considering the wider DI ducer was I had read somewhere that the DI is not the same or as good as with a dedicated DI ducer?

[Humminbird_Greg]

Q1 – It would be more complicated in that you would have to remember to toggle the switch when you want high-speed sonar readings versus idle/low speed readings with Si sonar.  You would only have to make a menu change if you want to use the QuadraBeam and be able to view the Side Beam sonar data from it; otherwise you would not have to make a menu change.

Q2 – No, the 25 degree 200kHz 2D sonar in the XNT-9-DI-T is not as strong as it is in the more standard 20 degree 200kHz in our DualBeam sonar transducers.
The XTM-9-WIDE-DI-20-T transducer uses the same 2D element within it has the same standard 20 degree 200kHz 2D sonar (along with 60 degree 83kHz) as the DualBeam transducers.
Whether you go with a QuadraBeam or the WIDE-DI transducer should be based on how you are planning on using your sonar.  The 2D sonar for both of these is the same, so let’s look at the other part of the sonar for each of them.  The QuadraBeam will cover a wider area under the boat (2.0 X the water depth) and will show whether objects were to the right or left side of the boat but will do so with less detail than the DI sonar.  The WIDE-DI transducer will be able to show a lot more detail over a narrower area (1.53 X water depth) but you will not know whether the objects shown were directly under the boat or off to the left or right side unless you circle back around and use your Si sonar.  I would probably go with the WIDE-DI transducer so I could get prettier sonar images on the DI sonar as I would use the Si sonar at lower boat speeds when searching for fish or structure, but that’s just me.

Q3 – On the 1199 unit the sonar from the QuadraBeam transducer can be shown as the 2D (200/83kHz) sonar only, as it can with your HDSi transducer, or the 200kHz sonar can be shown with the Side Beam sonar but it will always be split in some way.  I’ll attach some images of what it will look like.  Fish will be easier to spot on the QuadraBeam sonar but only because of the color palette used and that the fish will be in a wider (front-to-rear) sonar beam.

The DI sonar from the dedicated DI transducers (like the XTM-9-WIDE-DI-20-T) will have more detail than the Di sonar from the HDSi transducers that the core products like the 1199 unit use (ONIX transducer is different), because the Di sonar from the HDSi transducers is basically a combination of both the left and right Si sonar and it does not always line up as well and so looks “fuzzier”.

[Humminbird_Greg]

UPDATE: Due to changes in the software, your 1199ci HD Si unit will not work with the QuadraBeam transducer.  I don't know when this was changed in the software but at least you won't have to choose between transducers!

[dogridgekraus]

Greg,
You got back with me in the nick of time.Im glad I didn't get the quadra beam if that's the case.
I wanted to but was torn over the wide DI.I feel better about doing what you would rather do anyway.
I guess you musta thought the quadra beam was gonna work beings you took the time to explain how it works.Oh well thanks for letting me know that.
I guess its gonna be the WIDE DI.
It sounds like it has a wider beam over the XNT-9-DI-T & the dual beam I want to do the job.
I guess if I had an 1198 it would have worked...

Ill get better more true DI readings & have the recommended 2d sonar as well with the wide DI ducer.

Q:Will I lose noticeable sharpness of the DI readings in hull?

I called triton & they told me the boat is solid glass down where id want to put it.He told me to stay away from the bilg area & put it off to one side to lessen the possibility of cavitation issues. Im a little confused since the location is basically in the bildge area & the area is probably (maybe)
10"x12" area at most.Probably less...Behind that is the gas tank.Really not much of an area.

Q:So is that about all of the size area you have normally to find a good location when your testing as you had referd earlier?
It just seems like its such a small area to get it wrong (maybe it might be able to go under the gas tank a bit IDK yet) & be able to extend the trial & error of chooseing the right location.

Q:Should I call Triton & ask how thick the hull is there? I thought about getting THE SPOT where Id put the transducer prepped & sand away,maybe take it down 1/4" & then glass the transducer in.My thinking doing that is there would be less thickness of the hull for the sonar beams to overcome & get the best results out of the install.What do you think?

Thanks,for you opinions & saveing me frustration & money.
BTW Greg:Ive been a Toyota mechanic for close to 30 years & if you own one or ever need any advice there,let me know.I owe you one!
Thanks again:
Marty

[Humminbird_Greg]

Yeah, sorry about the QuadraBeam thing Marty. I didn’t have an 1199 in my office to look at the menus and was going by the manual and an older product.  About thirteen minutes after my post with the QuadraBeam images in it I went to a Customer Service meeting and was notified of this, so I posted my previous message when I got back in my office (and prayed that it would be on time!).

Yes, the 1198 would have worked (unless it was changed in that software too and I just don’t know about it…).

Q1 – With a good installation you should not lose any sharpness or notice any loss in sensitivity.  The key is to test the location before you start mixing up any epoxy.

“I called triton & they told me the boat is solid glass down where id want to put it.He told me to stay away from the bilg area & put it off to one side to lessen the possibility of cavitation issues.”  Marty, I’m confused by this as well.  What cavitation is he talking about?  An inside-the-hull transducer doesn’t make any cavitation as it is inside of the hull and not in direct contact with the water.  Maybe he misunderstood you and thought you were talking about a Thru-Hull transducer (a transducer that mounts from the underside of the hull through a hole.  This type of transducer sticks out below the hull and can produce cavitation.).  The bilge area is where I would start testing for an inside-the-hull installation and as far back and to the center (or slightly off to one side) as I could get it).

Q2 – That is actually a much larger area than what I have had on some of the boats I have installed inside-the-hull transducers in.  Some only had enough room for the transducer and others did not have that without moving some of the plumbing (aerator hoses, bilge pump,…).

Q3 – Yes, I would call Triton and get the hull thickness for that area if they know what it is.  They may give you a range instead of a specific thickness.  As for removing layers of fiberglass: I’m lazy and if it tests good with all the fiberglass there I would leave it.  The key is in the testing, so get one of your buddies to go with you for this.  Be sure to compare the inside-the-hull readings versus what the transducer reads when held over the side of the boat.

Thanks for the offer but I got rid of my Toyota way back about 1991.  It was a Corolla hatchback and I needed more of a family car at the time.  Great car, it had over 170,000 miles on it (I used to drive everywhere) and I only had to change the oil, tires, two water pumps (got an off brand that lasted only months…) and finally a clutch before sending her to a new home…  We drive Hondas now but only do to liking their van and pick-up models better at the time we bought them.  We have a third Honda but that was bought from a family member who no longer needed it.  Not looking forwards to it but it’s about time to look for a pair of new cars now.  Has been nice not having a vehicle payment for several years now…

[dogridgekraus]

Hey Greg,
That's a good point you brought up about the confusion triton left me with about transducer placement.
I need to reclarify if he was thinking I was talking about a through hull.

Q:Ok so I was pretty much set to get the XTM 9 WIDE DI 20 T, when looking again online I found a XTM 9 DI 25 T.Now whats the differences with the two? I didn't see any,would either work just as well?

I didn't see any,the angles frequencys seemed to be the same on both.I did see the XTM 9 DI 25 T can be used from 800-1100 series units.

Q: Aside from the quadrabeam & the dual beam X P 9 20 ducers  is there any other ducers that are for in hull use you think I would like to hear about before I buy?

You said you would go with the XTM 9 WIDE DI 20 T.I may be looking into this a bit but glad I have & didn't just buy the basic dual beam & thank you again for getting back in time to steer me away from the quadrabeam I thought would be right.

The XTM 9 DI 25 T can be used on a lot more smaller units to as well as the 800-1100 series units.Seems more versatile given that aspect beings I have a 798 as well & the XMT 9 WIDE DI 20 T supports less.IDK again...I just thought that might be an option being it seem to support a larger array of units & it look the same,has the same capabilitys.

It did say that either one had the dual beam witch I thought the XTM 9 WIDE DI 20 T had?

So I was exploring if there was more options.I really tried to research this now & am having a hard time finding all the info I need. I read a thread of someone having concerns about using a DI ducer with a SI unit possibly causing like an open load or being hard on the unit.I think you were in the thread it was a couple of years ago though.

I just don't know whats all out there I guess finding this other ducer XTM 9 DI 25 T proves it.I just want to get the best & I was excited about the XTM 9 WIDE DI 20 T but want to feel like im doing the right thing & not just settling.

Is there more than one kinda TS3 switch? I read something that they didn't seem to have everything needed.I don't want to get the wrong switch & have everything needed with it if possible.

I think I found a real deal on one so I hope to hear from you soon.

Thanks:Marty

[Humminbird_Greg]

Marty,
Q1 – The XTM-9-WIDE-20-T and XTM-9-DI-25-T both have the same DI sonar capabilities (75/45 degrees, 455/800kHz), the differences are in the 2D sonar that each has.  The XTM-9-WIDE-DI-T transducer has our standard 20/60 degrees, 200/83kHz sonar while the XTM-9-DI-25-T has 25/16 degrees, 200/455kz sonar.

The XTM-9-DI-25-T can be used with your 1199 unit but it will only be able to use the 200kHz 2D sonar from it and not the 455kHz 2D sonar (It can also use the 455/800kHz DI sonar but it will appear as right side Si sonar only).

Q2 – No, those are the only transducers that would work and be applicable.

The 798 unit would be able to use the 20 degree, 200kHz 2D sonar and 455kHz DI sonar (will show up as right Si sonar only) from the XTM-9-DI-25-T transducer but would be able to use the 20/60 degrees, 200/83kHz 2D sonar and 455kHz DI sonar (again, will show up as right Si sonar only) from the XTM-9-WIDE-DI-T transducer.

Most other non-DI model units will only be able to use the 20 degree, 200kHz 2D sonar from either the XTM-9-DI-25-T or XTM-9-WIDE-DI-20-T transducers.

Only the larger (800, 900, 1100 series) DI model units can fully use either the XTM-9-DI-25-T or XTM-9-WIDE-DI-20-T transducers.  The smaller (300, 500, 600, 700 series) DI model units can fully use the XTM-9-DI-25-T transducer but will be limited to the 20 degree, 200kHz 2D sonar but can use both the 75/45 degrees, 455/800kHz DI sonar from the XTM-9-WIDE-DI-T transducer.

Only the XTM-9-WIDE-20-T transducer has our standard DualBeam Plus sonar within it.  The XTM-9-DI-25-T has dual beam sonar, in that it has two 2D sonar beams, but these are of a different cone angle and frequency set than our standard DualBeam transducers.

Yes, there were concerns about using a DI model transducer on an Si model unit because there would be unloaded transmit lines in the Si unit, but this has been disproven by many and our Engineering folks said it was okay to do so.

You are trying to make an informed, intelligent decision Marty; what’s wrong with that?

There is only one kind of TS3 Transducer Switch. The TS3 did replace the older TS2-W Transducer Switch and we have also had Unit Switches.  The current TS3 uses a relay (included) and has to be connected to 12-volt power, where the older model switches were purely mechanical switches and required no power connections.

[dogridgekraus]

Thanks to you Greg,I will be making a more informed intelligent decision with confidence!
So I guess ill be purchaseing the XTM 9 Wide DI 20 T.But I still wont be able to harness its full capabilitys beings the 1199 is an SI unit.Seems like theres always a trade off I guess...Just wondering,are the cone angles better on the XTM 9 di 25 T ?
Or better suited for in hull use?You said they were different.

Now with the switch are the other options still available like you mentioned still? What the name # for them?
I was under the impression it would be something you buy & just mount & plug in & go.

Q's:The TS3 sounds a bit complicated if you have to put power to it...Why does it need power & others don't?Mabye to power a light in the switch?
I like the idea of the one you mentioned that goes on the head unit,with the TS3 im gonna have to find a place to hack it in my dash.
Q's:would the power source come from the head unit?Do I have to find a separate power source?Do I need to fuse that to?

I just don't know why hummingbird would complicate it more like that verses the mechanical or what not you mentioned there must be some advantage or something better IDK? I guess that's why its not as cheap as I thought it would be.

I think im beginning to see why initially you had suggested the A SI DB Y cable & XNT 9 20.lol... I guess its not too late though(knowing me) I don't think I would be happy going that route & only having the SI/DI from my ducer.I just wanted better & hate to go back in a circle & just settle now.This has been quite a thread...

I cant wait till this is done...
Thanks for bearing with me on this!
Marty

[Humminbird_Greg]

Marty,
XTM-9-DI-25-T  75/45 degrees, 455/800kHz DI sonar.  25/16 degrees, 200/455kHz 2D sonar.
XTM-9-WIDE-DI-20-T  75/45 degrees, 455/800kHz DI sonar.  20/60 degrees, 83/200kHz2D sonar.
Neither is better suited to inside-the-hull installation.  The difference would be in how you use the 2D sonar from each.

The 1199 will not be able to fully utilize the DI transducer because it does not have the DI programming and circuitry in it, but it can fire the DI element in these transducers at either the 455kHz or 800kHz frequency as it does have this ability for its Si sonar and because the DI transducer element makes the same electrical connection as the right Si sonar does.  So you will see right Si sonar data (from the DI element) but no left Si sonar data (because there is no transducer element connected to it).  Just be sure that the Down Imaging Beam Width menu is set to the “Wide” setting.  Search this web site for “Brent Ehrler” and you should get more discussion about this.  The result will be sharper detail in the DI sonar on your 1199 but with less coverage area.

“Now with the switch are the other options still available like you mentioned still? What the name # for them?”  Ummm, what options did I mention?  I’ve discussed so many…  You would be able to use the DI sonar element in the DI transducers if you used the TS3 Transducer Switch, was that it?

The TS3 switch is just something you mount and plug and go.  It does need 12-volt power from the boat to operate on which will need to be fused (3 Amp) to protect your boat.  The power is needed so that you can actuate the relay.  A relay was used so that a lower profile rocker type switch (like many boats use) could be used in place of the toggle type switches.  This allowed for installation on more boats due to the thickness of the console where they get mounted (the toggle type were not always long enough to reach through the console).

[dogridgekraus]

Greg,
I have some silly questions on your last response reguarding transducers:
"XTM-9-DI-25-T  75/45 degrees, 455/800kHz DI sonar.  25/16 degrees, 200/455kHz 2D sonar.
XTM-9-WIDE-DI-20-T  75/45 degrees, 455/800kHz DI sonar.  20/60 degrees, 83/200kHz2D sonar.
Neither is better suited to inside-the-hull installation.  The difference would be in how you use the 2D sonar from each."

I don't know how exactly to ask...Just not sure of the differences that would be better suited for me? What whitch one works better in different scenarios/situations?  Heck I don't even know what KHZ means.lol... Im sorrey for being so dumb about all this! Really...
Ok so theres no differences with the DI between the 2 its just the 2D sonar im not real sure on yet.
With the XTM-9-DI-25-T I can see its narrower at 25/16 degrees but I don't understand the 200/455kHZ I know I should know what that means.Is it like what switchfire is? I just don't understand the numbers I know there bigger closer to like the DI kHz is so im sure being narrow in all it probably shows great detail.

On the XTM-WIDE-9-WIDE-20-T I am more familiar with its 2D sonar from having used it on older hummingbird modles ive had.I guess I should just go with this one since it has the same 2d sonar that you had recommended initially anyways.

Hers what you said about the switches last;
"There is only one kind of TS3 Transducer Switch. The TS3 did replace the older TS2-W Transducer Switch and we have also had Unit Switches.  The current TS3 uses a relay (included) and has to be connected to 12-volt power, where the older model switches were purely mechanical switches and required no power connections."
When you said Unit switch I thought maybe there was a switch available that would go on the unit itself.
And Mechanical switch I guess I assumed there was something else.Or maybe one of those could be used still IDK,Sorrey,My bad...
Thanks:
Marty