Topic: 899 SI left side is dark, need advise, pics included for input, my situation

[Time Out]

Ok  First I bought and had a new 899 installed professionally on my 21 Contender.  I've used it 3 times.  I really think I like the unit.  I was very excited, but right now the wind is a little sucked out of me.  But I love the thoughts of getting this right.

Also I've read two hours of posts on here and elsewhere on this subject.  Here's my story.  Again 21 Contender, 24 degree deadrise so deep V.

At drift, I have no problems whatsoever with both sides of the Side imaging.  Under slow speeds in shallow water of the bays in Jersey, I lose the left side to darkness.  It's not land or any of that so that's not it.  Why would the SI work perfectly at drift and not under slow speed?  So it would seem the transducer is good if it worked at drift?

In the inlet where it's 30 to 40 feet, it reads better at slow speeds.  But there is intermittent darkness.  Tried with tide, against tide, lots of tests....

I trimmed up the motor, no change.  I have no software changes.  The unit is how it came. 

I read somewhere on here that Deep V boats have more trouble?  Yes?  Could it the motor or the keel end blocking beam for those in the know?  Does the transducer need to be mounted different than in the pics? 

Did I read that there is a two transducer system that can eliminate this whole situation?  Is that true?  One transducer on each side meeting up at the head for best possible SI?  Did I get that right?  Or is that not possible?  If it is possible, can anyone elaborate?

Also, and this stinks.  Following advise from previous posters, I was changing the attitude of the transducer in experimentation and it flat out gave way.  Yep, the plastic just buckled.  Never ever had that happen with any transducer.  So I managed to keep it in place for now until I get a new one or two if possible.  I guess i have to call HB on that, but I want to gather as much info as possible as fast as possible.  Thank you in advance. 

[Time Out]

Some more pics.  Note the last pic is in deeper water and the  problem is far less - at least at that moment.   

One other small detail, I don't remember this issue on the first trip out in the shallow water.  Did it happen?  Don't think so.  Could it have and I not notice or remember?  Maybe.  Not 100% sure.  But  I was sooo excited, I may not have noticed, but I really don't recollect it on the maiden SI voyage.  Then the 2nd trip and pow, problem.  Could I have a bum transducer and it be that simple?  Just a lemon off the line that went bad that quick?

Thanks again. 

[Time Out]

Nobody?  HB Greg or HB Mike?  Fellas?

[Humminbird_Greg]

Welcome to the Humminbird Side Imaging Forums Time Out.

“Why would the SI work perfectly at drift and not under slow speed?”
This could be due to turbulent water with air mixed into it.

“So it would seem the transducer is good if it worked at drift? ”
Yes.  The transducer does not know if the boat is moving nor does it care.  It just sits there transmitting and receiving.

“I read somewhere on here that Deep V boats have more trouble?  Yes?  ”
Yes.  Due to the deadrise of the hull there can be problems with obtaining high-speed water depth readings and you could also have problems with the Si sonar to one side while the boat is moving above XX speed (like you are having).

“Could it the motor or the keel end blocking beam for those in the know?”
I doubt it because it works while drifting – unless you had the motor trimmed up only while drifting.

“Does the transducer need to be mounted different than in the pics?”
I think that you are going to need a second Si transducer and the AS-Si-LR-Y cable.

“Did I read that there is a two transducer system that can eliminate this whole situation?  Is that true?  One transducer on each side meeting up at the head for best possible SI?  Did I get that right?  Or is that not possible?  If it is possible, can anyone elaborate?”
Yes, using the AS-Si-LR-Y cable you can connect two Si transducers (one on the left side and one on the right side) through this cable to one unit.  The unit ‘sees’ this as one transducer.  The left Si sonar comes from the port side transducer while the right Si sonar, water temperature and 2D sonar all come from the starboard side transducer.

“Following advise from previous posters, I was changing the attitude of the transducer in experimentation and it flat out gave way.  Yep, the plastic just buckled.”
What plastic part gave way, was this the pivot arm?

“Some more pics.  Note the last pic is in deeper water and the  problem is far less - at least at that moment.”
If correctly understand what is happening, you will get better images in deeper water.  I think that you are getting turbulent water flowing off the left side of the Deep-V hull.  This happens more to the surface so it is only the upper part of the left Si sonar that is getting blocked so you will notice it far more in shallow versus deeper water.

“One other small detail, I don't remember this issue on the first trip out in the shallow water.  Did it happen?  Don't think so.  Could it have and I not notice or remember?  Maybe.  Not 100% sure.  But  I was sooo excited, I may not have noticed, but I really don't recollect it on the maiden SI voyage.  Then the 2nd trip and pow, problem.  Could I have a bum transducer and it be that simple?  Just a lemon off the line that went bad that quick?”
No, I don’t think so or at least not in your case.  If this same problem happens with the boat drifting then yes, but you do not see this problem when the boat is drifting.

“Nobody?  HB Greg or HB Mike?  Fellas?”
Sorry TO but I was not on the posting boards yesterday and have been quite busy all morning.  Who is HB Mike?

[Time Out]

Hi Greg,

First I would like to thank you for the time in answering each question.  I appreciate it greatly.  I am indeed excited about the purchase.

With the dual transducer, I read somewhere that it cured the Deep V problem that we are most likely talking about with my transducer.  I also read on one of these posts that it caused an overalap of the SI images.  Is that common?  Or does this cure  usually work with high frequency.  I feel like gaining some confidence after being bummed.    So the dual transducer would definitely be your recommendation?  Hopefully, HB will float the necessary items to me with no charge.  I hope.  This was my big purchase this year....

*Did it look like from my pictures that the transducer was mounted in the correct spot?  So the othe transducer would go on the other side, symetrical to the spot of the current one?  I had Martek, an electronics specialist with an excellent reputation in South Jersey, do the work.  I can catch fish.  But this isn't my thing.  You guys impress me.

The transducer plastic just kind of "opened up" as if it had a weak point.  I don't know the vocabular, but it wasn't down at the transducer, rather as it became vertical against the boat.

Again, thank you much Greg and any others that want contribute.  Much obliged.    And thanks for the welcome.

When I get this licked, I'm sure I'll ask questions about other HB purchases and stuff, but one thing at a time.

[Humminbird_Greg]

There has always been some overlap of the left and right Si sonar beams, even when using only one Si transducer.  If you have to mount two Si transducers far enough apart, than there may be no overlap which will really only affect what you see on the Di sonar images and then only if you select to use the Narrow setting for the Down Imaging Beam Width menu.

I think that the twin Si transducer install is the way for you to go here.  Maybe some of the guys that have done this with their installations will read your post and chime in here…

“Hopefully, HB will float the necessary items to me with no charge.  I hope.  This was my big purchase this year....”
I hope you aren’t holding your breath for this…

The transducer looks like it is in a good spot.  I may have went more to the left (center) of the transom but I don’t know what else you have going on there trailer-wise.  You certainly don’t want to knock it off when loading your boat.

Yes, the port side transducer should be mounted in the same location – except on the port side, but you knew that already.

Now, when you get this all sorted out; you can post some screen snapshots of your Si sonar and also some of the fish you catch – we don’t see enough pictures of fish!

[Time Out]

Hi Greg,

Thank you again.  HB said they would replace my cracked bracket that comes with the arm.  The crack is right where the arm bends at the angle there.  Then I can use that same transducer.   Sound right to you? 

Looks like I have to spend more money on another transducer and Y cable.  Ouch.  ARe there any other necessary items for the 2 transducer set up?

The woman that I spoke to said she never heard of the black out issue on the left side. 

AGain, or did I ask,  why would the left side of the SI work better in deep water versus shallow when underway at slow speeds?   

I do charters up here so hopefully I can get this fixed quick as we are hitting prime time.  Lots of people are going to want this unit.  Most people don't have side imaging in this neck of the woods.  I can't wait to get it working right.  The potential!

I'm looking forward to putting pics on this board.  I will make a point to just because you've been so helpful.  Even the guys who I've read on the other posts helped teach me.  Like RGelcy and others.....  I'm impressed.  I can't wait to put some pics in my seminars and articlesI  write too.  Gotta get that HD card later, but I'll learn about that at a later time when I get this worked out I guess. 

[rnvinc]

You might think about a simple test before spending the extra $$ on another HDSI and the AS SILR Y cable ...

Mount your current HDSI on the port side symmetrical to where it is now...if the left side of the SI image clears up...Greg's evaluation of turbulence from your deep v hull would be proven....

Then it would be evident as a necessity to add a second HDSI and the AS SILR Y cable ...

There would be no other parts to buy...the AS SILR Y cable is merely a cable splitter that separates the wires in such a way that the right SI signal, the 2d signal, and the temp signal would come from the right mounted HDSI....and the left SI signal would come from the left mounted HDSI...

Rickie

[Time Out]

THank you for the comeback.   Well, you are right, a test would be good, but based on the 6 hours of posts I've read on this subject, it sure sounds like Greg is dead on.  But real Rnvinc, I hate to admit.  I'm not real handy and drilling holes all over the place for the test probably irritates me more than spending the 200.00  -  although it has been a tough year for maintenance so I'm hurting.

Thank you for continued advise and thoughts guys.  I do appreciate it.

[Humminbird_Greg]

Time Out,
Rickie is right: test the portside transducer location by using some double-sided tape if you can! 
BTW Rickie; he has the smaller CSi transducer that came with his 899ci HD Si unit.

If I am right about what is causing the problem… the turbulent mix of air and water happens only at the surface of the water, so it is only blocking the top part of the Si sonar beam to that side.  This top/upper part of the Si sonar beam is the part that reaches out into the shallower water while the rest of the left Si sonar beam is not blocked and can reach down into deeper water depths without problems.  The same turbulent water also flows off of the right side of the boat hull but due to the Si transducer being so close to it, something called a near-field affect (or something like that) cancels it out.  Mounting a CSi transducer on the port side of the transom will allow the same thing to happen (in other words the left Si sonar will not get blocked).

Screen Snapshots are not hard at all.  Just buy an SD or SDHC memory card (I recommend SanDisk brand) and install it in one of the card readers in your unit.  Got to the Accessory menu tab and look for the Screen Snapshot menu.  Set it to “On”.  To make a Screen Snapshot just press the MARK button and the unit wil set a waypoint for that location and save a picture of whatever you have showing on the display of the unit at that time.  This picture will be saved to the SD/SDHC memory card you have installed in your unit as a *.PNG picture file.

[Time Out]

You guys are great.  I can't wait to get this all fixed and right.  I'm stoked at the wreck hunting potential.  Save some serious time and find some really small broken pieces.  Thank you much as always. 

[slabbacks]

Could some of the issue lay in the trim tabs left and right of the xducer?  Greg spoke of the upper column being effected and it looks as though they would cause turbulence.  Just a thought

[Time Out]

That was a thought of mine too.  But then why not on the side that it is working?  There is a tab there too.  I'm not qualified to say any of this for certain like Greg or the others.

[Humminbird_Greg]

Qualified?  Who’s qualified? 

Good point slabbacks, the trim tabs could be adding to the turbulent water that is reflecting the left Si sonar.  You may not see this on the right Si sonar as the trim tab is closer and that near-field thing is helping.  Try raising the port side trim tab up to see if it helps or not.  Still, you would end up needing to either raise the port side trim tab or installing the second Si transducer and AS-Si-LR-Y cable.

[Time Out]

Hi guys,

O.k. second transducer is on the opposite side of the engine on the deep V hull.  I've been out on the water twice and things look encouraging.  I was side image reading in places where I was blacked out before.  So it looks encouraging.  I will report back as I put some more trips on the water.  Thank you for all the advice and thoughts to this point.