Author Topic: DI Screen 1/2 blacked out  (Read 9463 times)

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Offline Arai

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DI Screen 1/2 blacked out
« on: April 19, 2012, 08:37:42 PM »
I saw someone else posted that they are having issues with the SI screen blacking out.  I am having the same issue with my DI screen.  Anyone know what would cause my down image to cut out after a certain depth?  My 2D images and side scan are all fine......and this happens when I use DI in anything deeper than 30-40FOW.  It just started happening and I haven't changed any settings.

This is on a HB 798ci HD SI/DI unit

 


Offline ITGEEK

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Re: DI Screen 1/2 blacked out
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2012, 09:58:34 AM »
I could suggest a couple of things:
 Make sure your maximum depth is set to auto, or if it has been set manualy, it is at least
10 feet deeper than any depth you will be fishing that day.

Since this problem is happening in deeper water, then turn up your
sensitivity.  Try it at Max first, then adjust down as needed.

Check your transducer for damage or debris.  You may have struck
something.  Check that the attitude of the transducer is more or less
flat against the water with your boat in the water and normally
loaded.

It seems to me, the deeper you go, the more juice the unit
will draw.  Fully charge and load test your battery, and check all of
your power and transducer connections.

It's possible this problem could be fixed with a software update.
Research and install the most recent software update for your
unit.  I would only install an update if other user's haven't had any problems
with it.

Good Luck.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2012, 10:00:06 AM by ITGEEK »

Offline Humminbird_Greg

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Re: DI Screen 1/2 blacked out
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2012, 03:10:34 PM »
Also check what your SI Range menu is set to.

Greg Walters at Humminbird
gwalters@johnsonoutdoors.com

Offline sonar2000

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Re: DI Screen 1/2 blacked out
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2012, 03:13:38 PM »
How does SI range affect depth if you are looking down on 83/200?
Chuck

Offline Arai

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Re: DI Screen 1/2 blacked out
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2012, 02:07:07 AM »
Ok....I tested a few things I was already almost positive were not the issue, but now I can say positively they are not the issue.

I charged the battery 100% and when tested it was spot on.  I didn't think this was the issue just because I noticed the issue at the beginning of the trip and still fished for 12 hours.  Had the battery been low, it would have never made the full day.

Max depth is set to auto and the SI range is set to 65ft so I don't belive this is the issue. 

Sensitivity is set at 15 out of 20 and has been there for several months.  I fish a tournament in that same lake with 90ft holes and I will turn it up Saturday to see if it makes a difference.

The transducer does have a few minor scuffs, but nothing that I would assume would cause this issue.  This graph is mounted on a kayak and I always check that the ducer is level with the water when I launch.

As far as the software update, I have the current update loaded.  Is there a way to unload and reload it just to ensure this isn't the issue?

Thanks for the help guys.

Offline xSilmarilSx

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Re: DI Screen 1/2 blacked out
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2012, 03:06:24 AM »
Here is your problem.. ((SI range to 65ft))

You must understand that the DI screen is derived from the SI data in the 798

So, if you limit the SI range to 65ft, it will not show anything below 65ft... In DI mode.

Your 2D screen shot show a deep range of 80ft. So it's normal you have a black bottom!

« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 03:07:26 AM by xSilmarilSx »

Offline sonar2000

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Re: DI Screen 1/2 blacked out
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2012, 08:50:52 AM »
Xsil, is this only for the 798.  I swear the 1197 will show depth deeper than the si range.
I will look out again next week.

Chuck

Offline ITGEEK

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Re: DI Screen 1/2 blacked out
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2012, 09:23:59 AM »
I think if you set the max depth manually, it may eliminate some of
the dead space you have between the actual bottom depth
and the bottom of your screen.

Offline xSilmarilSx

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Re: DI Screen 1/2 blacked out
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2012, 12:37:16 PM »
Xsil, is this only for the 798.  I swear the 1197 will show depth deeper than the si range.
I will look out again next week.

Chuck


Normally, it should be the same for all SI units... newer DI only unit are different since they have the DI crystal..


Offline sonar2000

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Re: DI Screen 1/2 blacked out
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2012, 02:47:07 PM »
OK, thanks, I will do some testing next week on the next scheduled outing..
Chuck

Offline Arai

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Re: DI Screen 1/2 blacked out
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2012, 10:20:43 PM »
Here is your problem.. ((SI range to 65ft))

You must understand that the DI screen is derived from the SI data in the 798

So, if you limit the SI range to 65ft, it will not show anything below 65ft... In DI mode.

Your 2D screen shot show a deep range of 80ft. So it's normal you have a black bottom!

How can that be the problem?  If you look at the screen and you will see I am sitting in 50 FOW?  It generally starts happening in 40ft+.  I had heard the same thing about the DI/SI range and I plan on testing it this weekend during my tournament. 
« Last Edit: April 25, 2012, 09:31:31 PM by Arai »

Offline sonar2000

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Re: DI Screen 1/2 blacked out
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2012, 09:04:44 AM »
I am still confused at how a horizontal limit also affects the verticle (depth) limit..

Chuck

Offline Humminbird_Greg

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Re: DI Screen 1/2 blacked out
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2012, 11:57:46 AM »
How can that be the problem?  look at the csreen and you will see I am sitting in 50 FOW?  It generally starts happening in 40ft+

Arai,
 - In the screen snapshot you posted the water depth is 50 feet deep.  The unit automatically selected the 0 to 80 foot range to display the water column, lake bottom and a distance beyond the bottom.
 - The Upper and Lower Depth Ranges values you set or the unit automatically sets control the area of data that is displayed in the Di sonar window.
 - You set the SI Range menu to have the unit show the Si sonar out to only 65 feet.  So this is what the unit did but it also only remembers and records out to that same 65 foot distance.
 - The Di sonar is derived from the left and right Si sonar beams.  Since there is no Si sonar information past the 65 foot point; the unit cannot display anything farther than that point.

If, with the same menu settings that you have posted, this starts at 40 feet of water than something else is going on.  Can you get a screen snapshot of this happening and also confirm that the Si Range is not also set to 40 feet?
Greg Walters at Humminbird
gwalters@johnsonoutdoors.com

Offline sonar2000

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Re: DI Screen 1/2 blacked out
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2012, 12:07:49 PM »
I am still confused at how the lateral distance setting affect the bottom depth.
If you have set the si range to 65 feet and you have in effect an 86 degree beam from the surface downward how can you not see the bottom at 80 feet.
Or does the si range also set limits on depth. If this is so then we need a fix to not allow the si range to filter the depth..
If I want to see 50 feet out on 90 feet of depth for clarity of target then I should see that.
Allowing si range to set depth distance is defeating the search concept for small targets..
I will have to check this out next trip..
Chuck   

Offline xSilmarilSx

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Re: DI Screen 1/2 blacked out
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2012, 12:51:47 PM »
The problem with the SI signal, is that it have no idea where is 50 ft off the boat.. For the system the only range is a strait line from the transducer...

So if you set a range of 100 ft, in say 50 ft of water, it will display data at 100 ft from the transducer and not 100 ft horizontal to the side of the boat. Which might be leading only 85 ft off the boat on the side.

Just turn-on the SI range line to show how the system interpret wrongly the range calculation..
If you are in 50ft of water, and don't use Contour Mode, the first signal return, the closest from the boat is the bottom. Which will appear on the unit at the 50 ft mark on the SI range line. But we all know that this information is in reality directly under the boat and not 50 ft off the sides.

Hope you understand!

Offline sonar2000

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Re: DI Screen 1/2 blacked out
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2012, 01:16:35 PM »
Xsil, we run with contour off and with si range on.  Just for all of the reasons above..
HB works ok for 40 feet or less of depth but any deeper we have to bring in another unit from our tool box..Unless we are looking for the titantic.... :P

We are trying to make this unit work but is does fight us at times..

Hopefully we can get some solution for ARAI.  He should be seeing deeper . Lets hope setting changes fix his issue..

Chuck
« Last Edit: April 25, 2012, 01:19:33 PM by sonar2000 »

Offline Arai

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Re: DI Screen 1/2 blacked out
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2012, 09:35:29 PM »
HB_Greg, Thank you for the clarification.  I will raise my setting and test it Saturday.  Normally I don't fish waters deeper than 30-40ft....so that could be why I have never seen this problem.  This lake has 90-100' holes in it and thuse when I fiest started seeing it.  I will change a few settings and post my findings.  Thanks again.

Offline simoncauchi

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Re: DI Screen 1/2 blacked out
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2012, 09:57:08 AM »
Something similar happened to me last Saturday. I went fishing in salt water and all was okay but all of a sudden when we reached depth below 50/60meters the screen became black. Seeing that i got very upset as I didn't know what was happening. I tried switching off and on but nada, all black except the 2d sonar but colors were strange and not as nice as when we were below the 50m depth. So we kept trolling out without not knowing what to do. I did play with a few settings as I did read the whole manual but I never did change the SI or DI range and I believe these were all on Auto. So when we were coming back and we hit 50m depth then everything came back to normal. This is upsetting as the 798 says that it reads depths up to 1500ft that is around 500meters and we couldn't read below the 50/60m depths...

What I believe is happening is that Side Imaging has a depth limitation of 150ft that is around 50meters [mine international model] so when it reaches below that then the screen goes black and even DI goes black with side imaging!

Any ideas of what might be wrong?

Many Thanks

Regards

Simon
« Last Edit: May 29, 2012, 10:08:02 AM by simoncauchi »

Offline sonar2000

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Re: DI Screen 1/2 blacked out
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2012, 10:19:06 AM »
Check you side range setting. The unit defaults to 50 meters. (max 120 meters) If you are scanning depths below this setting then the water column is all you will see.
Chuck

Offline simoncauchi

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Re: DI Screen 1/2 blacked out
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2012, 10:29:17 AM »
Check you side range setting. The unit defaults to 50 meters. (max 120 meters) If you are scanning depths below this setting then the water column is all you will see.
Chuck

Thanks Sonar however I was speaking of Depths and not as in side ranges.... I mean how could side range effects depths?  :-\   
My problem was when I hit 50/60m depths the DI/SI screen comes black and I was expecting that SI will stop working as it reaches SI max but DI would still work as it should scan up to 1500ft [500m]... Am I correct?
« Last Edit: May 29, 2012, 10:36:33 AM by simoncauchi »

Offline sonar2000

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Re: DI Screen 1/2 blacked out
« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2012, 10:49:14 AM »
The side range setting does affect the display as it relates to depth.  When you are in side imaging the first part of the display from  the center out (left and right) is the water column depth. If the depth is greater than the side image range (default 50 meters) then all you will see is the blank water column. there will be no bottom image.

Chuck

Offline simoncauchi

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Re: DI Screen 1/2 blacked out
« Reply #21 on: May 29, 2012, 10:59:18 AM »
The side range setting does affect the display as it relates to depth.  When you are in side imaging the first part of the display from  the center out (left and right) is the water column depth. If the depth is greater than the side image range (default 50 meters) then all you will see is the blank water column. there will be no bottom image.

Chuck

Thanks again for you reply and I do get that but how can I view depths below the 50/60 meters with my 798ci si hd? One of the reason I did buy this unit is because it said it reads Down Imaging depths up to 1500ft that is 500meters and I usually fish at depths 200/300 meter. Can you please elaborate a little on this?

Thanks again!
« Last Edit: May 29, 2012, 11:00:50 AM by simoncauchi »

Offline xSilmarilSx

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Re: DI Screen 1/2 blacked out
« Reply #22 on: May 29, 2012, 11:06:10 AM »
You got that wrong.. DI/SI range is only MAX 200ft, more 150ft in real life..

the 2D sonar is good to 1500ft!


Offline simoncauchi

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Re: DI Screen 1/2 blacked out
« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2012, 11:10:48 AM »
You got that wrong.. DI/SI range is only MAX 200ft, more 150ft in real life..

the 2D sonar is good to 1500ft!

Damn... Okay that explains it then.

Thanks guys

Offline sonar2000

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Re: DI Screen 1/2 blacked out
« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2012, 11:17:45 AM »
DI is different than SI....And the bottom is able to be seen as it does not have the distance limitation as in SI.
Does this seem to explain the problem you had?
Chuck

Offline simoncauchi

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Re: DI Screen 1/2 blacked out
« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2012, 11:31:07 AM »
DI is different than SI....And the bottom is able to be seen as it does not have the distance limitation as in SI.
Does this seem to explain the problem you had?
Chuck


My problem was that when I was getting depths below 50/60m I would get black screen both on DI and the SI screen BUT the 2d screen was still working. Now before I purchased the 798ci si hd I took very good notice on the 1500ft [500m] DI depth and didn't know that when exceeding the 50/60m sonar only works in 2d. I taught that SI will stop working due to the 150ft limitation but never taught DI would be a problem....

Now which is correct? Should DI work when exceeding 60meters up to 500m or 2D only works when you exceed the 50/60m depth?
I know that SI has limitation of 150ft [50m] but again never knw this effected Down Imaging and to be honest if this is the case then I would be a little pissed.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2012, 11:35:08 AM by simoncauchi »

Offline sonar2000

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Re: DI Screen 1/2 blacked out
« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2012, 11:33:01 AM »
Well at least you know now.
Hope this has helped.

Chuck

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Re: DI Screen 1/2 blacked out
« Reply #27 on: May 29, 2012, 11:55:16 AM »
Something else to consider is the frequency used for deep display. I think inorder to get to the depths you want you may have to look at the 83 or 200 freq.

So many options and limits for each... ::)
SI and DI (I think) are the 455 and 800 frequency selections.
Chuck

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Re: DI Screen 1/2 blacked out
« Reply #28 on: May 29, 2012, 12:52:04 PM »
Something else to consider is the frequency used for deep display. I think inorder to get to the depths you want you may have to look at the 83 or 200 freq.

So many options and limits for each... ::)
SI and DI (I think) are the 455 and 800 frequency selections.
Chuck

Thanks again chuck for all your help... If I am not mistaken the 83 and 200 freq are used when using DI meaning the 3rd sonar. The 455 freq are used on the SI.
So basically if both the DI/SI [3d sonars] ranges are limited to only MAX 200ft then scanning deeper than that would be impossible and can only use the standard 2d sonar to reach max 1500ft [500m] Can anyone verify that for deep sea fishing/scanning it is ONLY possible to use the 2d sonar?..... Maybe Greg or someone else can verify this as referencing to the DI there is nothing on the manual or box!

Regards

Simon
« Last Edit: May 29, 2012, 12:56:38 PM by simoncauchi »

Offline sonar2000

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Re: DI Screen 1/2 blacked out
« Reply #29 on: May 29, 2012, 01:23:22 PM »
Yes hopefully some one will jump in with the answer.
Finding DI info is a bit hard.
However I am looking for a past post in which it said the DI is from the SI elements.
If you look at a DI display you can kind of see that if you rotate the left SI 909 degrees it will look very similar to the DI.

Chuck

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Re: DI Screen 1/2 blacked out
« Reply #30 on: May 29, 2012, 01:49:23 PM »
If you look at a DI display you can kind of see that if you rotate the left SI 909 degrees it will look very similar to the DI.

Chuck

Exactly Chuck, and now that I know and understand that the SI is from the same elements as that of the DI the screen has to look similar as both SI/DI will basically give you the same bottom image, one being a bottom one and the SI the same bottom but kind of elongated and so you could see farther on both sides. Still I am angry that this was not explained both on the manual and the box let alone advertised that SI/DI is both limited and that you can reach or scan deeper then 150/200ft using the 2d sonar. On the manual and box they never mention any limitation to DI but a limitation on SI with a depth limitation of 150 feet...   GRrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!



Offline sonar2000

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Re: DI Screen 1/2 blacked out
« Reply #31 on: May 29, 2012, 01:55:15 PM »
Have a cup opf tea.    ;D   Welcome to the world of HB.  It seems since 2009 the documentation has lagged and in some cases does not exist.  I guess we have to figure this stuff out.
Thanks to this forum and the great bunch of guys here who take time to post their knowledge and take time to find out answers.
Hang in there with us...
Chuck
 


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