Topic: XNT9 QB90T vs XNT9 20T via Y-Splitter Cable

[Swann]

So lets say i managed 2find an older Quad Beam Transducer (XNT9 QB 90T) in an attempt 2maximize the similar scenario (pic attached) of using an XNT9 20T w/ XHS9 HDSI 180T via SI.DB.Y-Splitter Cable? Would one be able 2achieve the added benefit of 2D Quad Sonar w/the XNT9 QB90T in place of the XNT9 20T (4 Beams vs 2) OR would this get filtered out by the DB.Side of the Y-Splitter Cable seeing as it possesses only 2 of the 5 potential Pin Placements? IF Not, would an SI.LR.Y-Splitter allow the Quad Beam 2do this as it runs alongside the XHS9 HDSI 180T Transducer or would this entire premise be "All 4 Not" and that some sort of Custom 3Pin Cable would be needed 2achieve this potential scenario? Thanks, Sandro

[rnvinc]

The Quadrabeam xducer has nothing to do with the 2d function - the 2d piezo/circuit/feature is the same fixed frequency 83kHz/200kHz as the early core 2d xducers and SI xducers = one round shaped 2d piezo that is capable of dual frequency output 83kHz ... or 200kHz .... or alternate ping sequence both 83kHz and 200kHz together  ...

The Quadrabeam xducer added two 455kHz side pointing “oval” beams - (for a total of 4 beams = Quadrabeam) —-> this was the infancy precursor to side imaging  ...



Rickie

[rnvinc]

BTW - connecting the Quadrabeam xducer and a SI xducer with the AS SIDBY Cable (or newer M 9 SIDB Y) would only use the 83kHz/200kHz beam of the Quadrabeam xducer  ...

So  ...

*2d would come from the Quadrabeam
*Left SI, right SI, blended DI, and temp would come from the SI xducer

Rickie

[Swann]

Awesome Mr. Rickie.
So here's the scenario. I've got an 1198cX SI combo on the negotiating table & between you, me & the fencepost - it's as good as sold as i intend 2apply an SI-DB Y-Splitter Cable 2the Scenario which is 4a 14ft Firbreglass Bowrider Fish & Ski.
Now with consideration 2speed & performance, would it be best i just go fetch an XP920 (Puck Style) seeing as that's itz original intended design purpose OR seeing as i do own a Compact SI 180T Transducer (that i use 4my 598ciHDSI-Portable Setup) & if i was able to secure the Compact SI in my Bilge Pump area (something i read about previously right here on this very forum) - would it perfom just as well? (The 2D DB aspect of the job is what i wish 2compare)?
Lastly, is it the DB Side thatz responsible 4Temp or is the SI Side thatz responsible 4Temp when using an SI DB Y-Splitter Cable as i know i can pick up an XP920 for dirt cheap But Not so sure about an XP920T as that might take a little more "digging"?
1 More thing, what about the newer HW Transducers - now of course my 1198cX cannot do CHIRP But would that imply "an incompatibility" or moreso the "lack of a capability"?
Thanks, Sandro.

[rnvinc]

Xducer housing design is the challenge with 2d readings at speed - the “brick shaped” SI xducers are just not very hydro-dynamic designed to allow water to flow over the face of the xducer without the housing design itself creating excessive turbulence across the face of the xducer  ... it can be done but it’s challenging  ...

Xducer housing design would not be any factor in epoxying any 200kHz capable xducer in the hull  ... no bubbles in the epoxy would be the only factor to be aware of  ...

When using the AS SIDBY Cable or the newer M 9 SIDB Y Cable —> only the 2d comes from the Dual beam leg of the Y cable  ... all other circuits come from the connected SI xducer  ...
——-

It is not recommended to use the HW xducers on any HB unit that has the capability to transmit 83kHz  ...
Read this if you’ve got an hour or 2  ... (HB engineers say the 83kHz can fry the 2d element in a HW)  ...

http://www.bbcboards.net/showthread.php?t=1022195&highlight=rnvinc

Rickie

[Swann]

Ok. I gave that link a quick review & i was more/less "asking 4 ideas" based on a balance of efficiency & performance & if setting up an HW Transducer amongst Core units "could be" a tad risky then why bother - Simply Not Worth the Risk.
Now then, w/that being said, when using an SI DB Y-Splitter Cable, which transducer would be responsible 4 Temperature? Meaning if my 2D Transducer does Not have the Temp element & Yet My S.I. Transducer does - would i still get a Temp reading on my Core Unit? (As per when i made mention of "possibly" picking up an XP9 20 4cheap OR would it be better 4me 2get an XNT9 20 T & mount 2the Transom) Lastly, therez the option of Not spending any more money on Transducers at all & just use my Compact XNT9 180 SI for 2D Sonar by placing it in the Bilge Pump area on the "inside" of the boat via Suction Cup...  Im basically looking 4a Cost-Effective idea here BUT therez gotta be "some performance" OR itz No Fun... something that just came 2mind would be that the Temp in the Bilge Pump area (altough a safe-cozy place 4a Suction Cup Mount) might be a few degrees warmer than the surrounding lake water - No? Thanks, Sandro.

[Swann]

U know, talk about "haveing eyes & Not being able to see" ... my own pic, posted above 2start this conversation shows a set of color co-ordinated lines & if one were 2simply follow the lines, they can see that the Black line is represented as Temperature w/that path going 2wards the HDSI Transducer. Meaning, the SI Side of the DB Cable is the route Temperature will be read & therefore displayed... & Not Only that, Mr.Rickie answered that query immediately thereafter with a pic of his own re: The QuadBeam Transduer...Most Embarrasing. Sorry About that Mr.Rickie.
I guess that means i just might be off 2fetch that cheap XP9 20 Transducer after all. LoL

[Swann]

When we speak of "blended DI" which basically means DI images that are derived from SI information received from the Transducer. Would this also imply that D.I imageing will Not be able 2be displayed unless the Transducer is in motion? Secondly, does this mean that only D.I Transducers are capable of displaying DI imageing when staionary (ie: Vertical Jigging or Ice-Fishing) or is it that D.I. Transducers need 2 be "in motion" as well? Thanks, Sandro.

[rnvinc]

1. You are correct that temp will always come from the SI xducer regardless if a Y cable is used or not  ...

2. The suction cup in the bilge idea —-> any xducer in the bilge used for 2d readings must be epoxied to the fiberglass such that there is no possibility of air between the xducer face and the fiberglass - Sonar will not pass thru air  ... it is possible to add enough water to the bilge to eliminate air between the xducer and the fiberglass but 2d performance may be erratic due to the water in the bilge aerating from boat travel  ...

3. Any imaging (360, SI, dedicated DI, or blended DI) requires movement to create a discernible image  ... think of the individual pings as being similar to the “slice” pictures of a MRI  ... stacking all the MRI “slice” pictures together creates an image of the whole body  ... thus the boat movement allows each individual ping of the imaging Sonar to capture a new “slice” of water with new data captured  ...

Sitting still - the individual pings would capture the data from the same slice of water over and over and over -= elongating (on the display) any target within the imaging slice beam  ...

Rickie

[Swann]

Awesome, that's quite the comparison - and a near perfect 1 i might add... so weather itz DI-designated or DI-derived (from S.I) - No Motion = No Deal.
Thank You Mr.Rickie ! Now i hope you dont mind me squeezing another question re: 2D Sonar Transducer Compatibility as I went & used the Humminbird Transducer Compatibility Tool (link below) 2see if an 1198cSI would be compatible w/an XNT9 DB 74 T & the answer was "Yes-Fully Compatible"... although i am still a bit skeptical due 2the difference(s) in Frequency + Cone Angle(s).

https://humminbird-help.johnsonoutdoors.com/hc/en-us/articles/4417580517015-Transducer-Compatibility

Now i dont presently own an XNT9 DB 74T (& also don't know if they are discontinued or not 4that matter) But am trying to weigh ALL my options B4 picking up an XNT9 20 or XP9 20 or whatever the case may be... although i often find myself wondering about that old QuadBeam based on the type of fishing i do - which is basically using the wind 2allow me to "sweep" a predetermined area in sections (well, whenever the condition is favourable that is) But the overall intention would still be based on using an SI-DB Ysplitter cable w/the 2D Sonar Transducer on 1 side & an HDSI Transducer on the other and IF that works, i may even take things as far as a 2nd HDSI Transducer for Left/Right SI Screen Splitting too BUT "1st thing 1st-ya? " LoL.

So here's my question : Do you think that if an XNT9 DB 74T operates on 50khz(74deg) & 200khz(20deg), where this could potentially result in an overall gain of about 14deg on the Cone Angle over today's XNT9 20T that operates on 83khz(60deg)/200khz(20deg) for example AND IF my 1198cSI would simply "substitute" the 50khz(74deg) in lieu of the 83khz(60deg) frequency & more/less operate in the same manner otherwise as i'm Not concerned so much about "depth" as i would be "coverage area" especially seeing as i only fish freshwater anyway?
Thanks, Sandro.

[rnvinc]

*Press Menu twice to get into the main Menu  ...
*Cursor over to the Setup tab  ...
*Cursor down to User Mode and set to Advanced  ...
*Cursor back to the top and then cursor over to the Sonar tab  ...
*Cursor down to the Connected Transducer Menu  ...

Cursor left and right to see every available option of compatible transducers with that specific unit  ...

Rickie