Topic: scanning deeper with side imaging?

[ksc]

is anybody know that there is a project of humming about scanning deeper places like 100 meters which is limited 50 meters now? it would be wonderful if they produce bigger screen (bigger than 1198) with a higher resolution! because we will need if the new humminbirds scan that much deep!

[ITGEEK]

The units are already $2,800.
What you are asking for will be more expensive.

The big question is: how many people are willing to spend over 3 grand
for a sonar?
The current economy may not allow Humminbird to build such a unit.
They have to know they'll be able to sell them.

[ksc]

The units are already $2,800.
What you are asking for will be more expensive.

The big question is: how many people are willing to spend over 3 grand
for a sonar?
The current economy may not allow Humminbird to build such a unit.
They have to know they'll be able to sell them.

I dont agree this point of view! Because technology is being improved always! so for instance  iphone 3 maybe was 1000 dolars 3 years ago but now you can maybe take iphone 5 about that much money! so iphone 5 is better and bigger screen, faster and have better so much skills than iphone 3.. and humminbird 998 and 1198 should be 2 or 3 years old. So there will better soon for sure

Finally I want lighter screen If they produce new ones because when the sun come to my screen, i am having hard times to see what is going on at my 998!

[Rüdiger]

Hi ksc

If you want to scan more than 100m, you need a towfish. Or uses the DI mode and DrDepth.

mvh
Rüdiger

[ITGEEK]

ksc:
Your talking about a bigger screen, with better resolution,
and deeper Side-imaging.
That is going to cost some serious money.

Also, who knows how many of the current model 1198's have been sold.
If not that many, then why would Humminbird risk building bigger, more
expensive models, when the current high-end models aren't selling well?

They're not going to build something they can't sell.

[ksc]

Itgeek:

As the time past by, technolgy is being improved but it is getting cheaper too! So I believe they will able to produce this kind of products around 3000 bucks and you will see how many people will buy it! They have to do this because they produce the best sonars in the world!

[ITGEEK]

ksc:
Humminbird doesn't have to do anything.
They are a for-profit business, and they want to stay in
business.  They are going to make decisions based on
what products they think they can sell.

It would be great if the sonars would improve and get cheaper
regardless of what the economy is doing, but it just doesn't work
that way.

Here's a question for you.
A few years ago, whenever you saw an add for Humminbird sonars,
the 1197c/1198c was always listed first.  These were the flagship models,
and Humminbird was proud to display them first, because they were the best
that money could buy.
Look on the Humminbird website under the 1100 models, and you'll
see the 1158c listed first and the 1198c listed last.

Why is that?
Why wouldn't they show their best unit first?
Because the 1158c is more affordable (by $700), and is most likely outselling
the 1198c.

[ksc]

They are listed first because they are new. It is always like this, if you produce something new you Show And introduce to people, people already know the 1198!

[Humminbird_Greg]

Actually I would have guessed that they are listed in alphanumeric order.
But it has not always been that way.

If we were to produce a deeper penetration Si unit with a larger display; I’m guessing that it would have a rather hefty price tag – well over $3,000 US.  We would be using the best display for the money at the time, a completely redesigned transmitter/receiver and a much different transducer.  I would expect that these would not sell in quantity and so the few sales that we would have would have to pay for all of that additional R&D, plus the tooling and other design related expenses.

I think that the (as much as I hate to remind anyone of it) AS-GRHA proved that we only produce and sell products that are at a certain level of demand.  If we don’t have the needed demand we stop production of it.  There have even been products that were stopped during the R&D phase as well as just before production for this.  If we did not do this the lower volumes would mean we would have to have higher prices for the products that we do sell.  But then in this marketplace and world, you just never know…

[ksc]

Greg;

As I understand, there is No aim of humminbird and No work about development of side imaging to scan deeper zones?

[Humminbird_Greg]

Greg;

As I understand, there is No aim of humminbird and No work about development of side imaging to scan deeper zones?

I never said that ksc.

What I will say is that if there is (and if I knew about it), that I would not be able to say anything about it without risking my job.  So I try and limit my posts to what products we have that have been announced to the public.

[ksc]

Greg;

It is nice to hear that Greg humminbird should think of why people generally use side imaging? Are they too curious about what is deep of see! And they pay so much money for this? I don't think so!

I just bought my 998 to find stones in deep water because these stones is the home of fish and all the time I am scanning and trying to find new stones! And at this point the side imaging playing an extremely important role! I wouldnt even try find these stones with Only down imaging! Because it is very hard to find even using side imaging!

So it s very important if I able to scan deeper than 50 meters! Because when you fishing at deeper zones, you may reach bigger fish! This means it is a need of customer, and I hope humminbird is aware if this!

[ITGEEK]

ksc:
Scanning deeper may be the need of SOME customers.
But, I think that Humminbird is more concerned with what products MOST customers
will buy.

[ksc]

How do you know the most of customers don't think of my thoughts?

[Rickard]

kcs,
I have all the sympathy in this world for your desires, because I also sometimes need to scan in deep waters below 50 m. But, as far as quite alot of research has shown, such systems are almost impossible to design, unless you can accept rather low resolution. Not even the most expensive professional sidescan systems can do this with acceptable results. Technology develops fast and prices goes down, sure, but the laws of physics sets some limits. Sound speed, sound window dimensions, stability requirements, refraction phenomena, termocline layers, marine life, energy absorbtion etc etc are factors which effect all results and it gets increasingly worse the deeper and longer one tries to scan. If it's very deep there is just one way to go, bring down the transducer closer the seafloor. This makes a towfish indispensable. We have tried to convince HB there is a market for a towfish adapted transducer (a transducer with long cable), but without success. We have to make our own systems, something very amusing and not at all difficult.
Rickard

[newkid4si]

Rickard
   As always, thank you for sharing your knowledge.
   Someday a technology may be developed that will work.
   The military may have some, but I don't think they would tell us.

          Mike

[Roddy]

Gemtlemen, If you are scaning below 50m and need image detail you will need a Large roll of money and a Tow Fish !
A tow fish at 1000m water depth will require 3000-7000m of cable.
3000m-7000m of cable will require a winch.
Brake out the BIG MONEY ! 

Or find a used Klein Tow Fish with 2000m of cable and the control unit with LED screen and printer in a abandoned storage unit for $50.00.

Roddy

[ksc]

Actully I was meaning 100 meters by saying deeper zones! It will be enough for most of the fisherman!

[Roddy]

ksc, 100m with a Humminbird transducer is over the limit in side imaging mode. A few people have built DIY tow fish for there Humminbird units, some trying to go deeper !

Roddy

[ksc]

I know about that but I was wondering if there will be new humminbird which is able to do that without any additional item.

[ITGEEK]

If enough users want it, and are willing to pay for it, then I think
that Humminbird would be happy to build such deep SI units, for as
Greg said $3,000+.

But, I think that most Humminbird customers are recreational fishermen.
150 feet is probably plenty deep for most of them, and 3 grand is a heck of
a lot of money to spend on a recreational fish finder.

ksc:  I wouldn't hold my breath waiting.

[ksc]

It depends on zone! Because some places getting deep suddenly And almost No shallow water! There should be survey for this to determine the real needs of customer! It is Very important for a company!

[ITGEEK]

ksc:
You are absolutely correct.
There should be a survey to all Humminbird customers, and potential customers.
It only needs two questions on it.
  1)What do the user's want as far as maximum side-scanning depth, screen size, screen clarity.
  2)How much are they willing to pay for it?