Author Topic: chirp side  (Read 12328 times)

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Offline Nitro78

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chirp side
« on: May 09, 2014, 01:32:52 PM »
Can Humminbird work on chirp version for side as it it sell for new sonar?


Offline ksc

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Re: chirp side
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2014, 03:01:31 PM »
Actually I am wondering the same issue! Because new onix and ion can use chirp transducers and it is advertised that the sensitivity of chirp is much more better! So why didnt humminbird use chirp with side or down imaging technology? why didnt they combine it while competitor companies do this?


Offline Rickard

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Re: chirp side
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2014, 04:02:37 PM »
I can only speculate about HB's strategies, but they may have found the increase in performance with chirp doesn't justify the costs. In a sidescan application the horizontal beamwidth is by far the most important factor. In a 'cheap' non-chirp sidescan system the range resolution is much better than the horizontal resolution. Thus, improving range resolution with chirp doesn't affect the overall image quality that much. The most effective means for improving image quality is making longer sidescan arrays. Unfortunately, the latest transducers are as long (or short) as the old ones are, so no significant change in image quality can be expected - not even if they are used with a chirp system.
 
Rickard

Offline newkid4si

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Re: chirp side
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2014, 04:39:55 PM »
Rickard

       Thank you for your understandable explanation of a technical problem. I always look forward to your input. You probably saved several people some money.

                              Mike

Offline ksc

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Re: chirp side
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2014, 05:29:46 PM »
Rickard, do you think that humminbird will produce longer transducers to make sidescan work more than 50 meters in future?

Offline ITGEEK

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Re: chirp side
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2014, 09:06:00 PM »
My opinion is that Humminbird will not offer an improved side-scanning transducer.
When did Humminbird first offer side-scanning, 2006?
If they have not offered an improved side-scanning transducer
by now, I doubt they ever will.
I think Humminbird is all about what is cost-effective, and not trying to
push the envelope improving existing hardware.

They probably have many of those transducers still out there, and they work with
all or most of the side-scanning models, so they probably want to sell what they have
already made.

I think Humminbird only makes what they think will sell, and if it doesn't sell, it's discontinued and/or not supported with newer models:
Examples of what probably didn't sell enough to stay around:
  Weathersense barometric pressure device
  XM Weather Receiver
  AS GRHA GPS Receiver (accuracy to 1 meter)

Offline ksc

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Re: chirp side
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2014, 10:37:31 PM »
I dont agree with you Itgeek. Companies have to care about continuous improvement. Of course they may have some reasonable priced products to compite  on market but you should even improve this reasonable priced products as well to stay on market!

If what you think was true there wouldnt be new improved transducers for ion and onix which are better scaning capability and better depth capability at Down imaging which can scan up to 117 meters, it was 50 meters at 1198! so they have something new for customers whose want more and ready to pay for that.

in my opinion, needs leads the market and technolojy as well. why do people spent lots of money for towfish? Because they need  to see deeper. So do you think they will deal with lots of cable and stuff if you produce a transducer which can scan deeper? I dont think so. It is my need as well because I want to discover rocks in deeper water for fishing and sideimaging technolojy makes me able to do this.

Offline Nitro78

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Re: chirp side
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2014, 04:16:44 AM »
While the transducer have not changed size ( understandably I see on french fishing forum , users of  Lowrance trancducer are genes for the assembly of the size of the probe).
 I could see the difference for the same brand in a sonar chirp the other not, the diffinition improved significantly with a constant contrast that is near or at the limit of range! (range don't change, limit by the frequency)
Humminbird now embarks on new sonar better suited for user in deeper water such as European sea we can always hope for improvement ! It costs nothing to ask!
I wait my whole ONIX + SM3000 CHIRP forward !
For products whose marketing is stopped, it is the market that decides the profitability ! Antennas for GPS accuracy, the upcoming launch of the European satellite system will bring great accuracy and reliability of the signal.  By the law, all GPS sold in Europe must be consistent for this year (modification of software to receive signals from new satellites, two new frequencies are close to that currently used and will be enabled without changing the antenna )

Offline Rickard

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Re: chirp side
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2014, 09:19:24 AM »
Quote
Rickard, do you think that humminbird will produce longer transducers to make sidescan work more than 50 meters in future? 
ksc, I have no idea. I did expect the ION and ONIX systems would come with transducers which could compete with the Lowrance LSS-2, but I was wrong. I think HB haved decide to concentrate on the typical consumer/user and his use - a fisherman who needs support when fishing. When watching the unit display while fishing there is very little extra to expect from long transducers or chirp. This is because the display's pixel resolution doesn't allow for more detail than there already is with the current transducers. For the wreckhunter the situation is very different. Wreck searching is always done with recording, and when the recordings are shown with a 3:d party viewer on a computer the difference is striking. I don't know what to expect from chirp, but I do know from my own recordings a long transducer can give superior results.
 
StarFish use chirp for sidescan with their towfish systems. Checking their gallery may give an idea about the effect of chirp.
 
Rickard

Offline Nitro78

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Re: chirp side
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2014, 09:32:56 AM »
I have see on net , we can buy "side" transducer about 60cm long each. need to look at it frequency  about 450kHz. When i get find it I put the link too it!

Offline ITGEEK

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Re: chirp side
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2014, 04:31:30 PM »
ksc:
Yes, with newer models, there will be improvements in
transducers, memory, microprocessors, maximum depth and range, fish identification, etc.

But:
You will have to buy a completely new unit to take advantage of it.

That's the trap.  If you want the latest technology, you have to buy a COMPLETELY new system.  You cannot keep your same system, and periodically upgrade parts to keep it current.
But, I figured it out:  Humminbird wants you to keep buying new complete systems.  They don't want you to be able to keep your current system for 10 years and upgrade bits and pieces of it.

For the 1197, 1198, 1199: I think they all use the same HDSI transducer.
Do you think Humminbird will offer a new-improved transducer for those models?
Do you think Humminbird will come out with a new-improved 360 model with better range and more detail for the 1198 and 1199?

I think if a new-improved 360 does comes out, Humminbird will make sure it does not work with the 1198 and 1199, so people will have to get whole new systems to use it.
Good or bad, that's the way I have seen things happen.
To drop features on a new model that a person has gotten used to is just mind boggling to me,
but, they do it, and they probably will continue to do it.

I think Humminbird is always trying to come out with the next big thing, and they don't look back.
If you can spend about $2,500 every 3 years or so, you can keep up with them.

Offline ksc

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Re: chirp side
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2014, 05:11:28 PM »
Itgeek

ION and ONIX are able to use chirp technolojy! That is why I am curious why they didnt use chirp for side and down imaging! It would be excelent to produce SM4000 which has Watts RMS - Max: 3,000W for the 3kw transducer as airmar R599LH and use chirp for down and side imaging with a very long new transducer that is able to scan 100 meters sideimaging :) so people can decide between sm3000 and sm4000 through their needs.... Nice wishes right?  8) ;)

Offline ITGEEK

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Re: chirp side
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2014, 07:25:34 PM »
Fantastic wishes. :)

Offline ksc

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Re: chirp side
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2014, 10:51:28 PM »
Maybe only 100 meters sideimaging is fastastic! other skill can be done easyly now! Actually that is the thing that I am wondering why didnt they do that! :(


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