Author Topic: info on recordings, tracks and file types (Read 16938 times)

afaust · « **on:** July 04, 2016, 09:47:01 PM »

Ok, im a little confused. with my helix 5, ive been recording whenever im on the boat. i tried using different trial software, however, when looking for the necessary files on the sd card, its as if i have nothing. do i need to convert the files to something else? When i started with my helix, i had a blank sd card in, and from what i can tell, im recording directly to the sd card... shoudl i be leaving the card out and recording to the unit? I am just trying to figure things out... the recordings work well in humviewer, and ive exported the tracks to google earth, its just for things like map creation that the software seems to look for something else. Essentially, id like to create my own deptch charts... yes, i know, ill be getting autochart when i can afford it... but in the meantime, it jsut to try different things like reefmaster, maphack etc.... whatever i can do in the short term.

Allan

Beaulieu80 · « **Reply #1 on:** July 13, 2016, 07:54:12 PM »

you have to go under the track tab.of the unit

and select export to SD card.

with ur SD card you can use humminbird PC to view them or anything else that can read HT file

i suggest to open once with humminbird PC wich this will create a GPX file and this file can be now viewd with any text editor or map editor

afaust · « **Reply #2 on:** July 13, 2016, 09:29:57 PM »

For others reading, I just want to respond in French to gain a better understanding (knowing where beaulieu80 is from...

Jai pas exactement compris ce que tu voulais dire, et par rapport au question, je ne suis pas sûre que ca éte compris non plus. Est ce que, en ajoutant la carte SD, que j'ai changé la façon donc l'unité enregistre les traces? Est ce que je devrais pas utiliser la carte SD et exporter le fichier? Car quand je prends la carte, il y a des traces (format HT), mais pas d'autres donnés et les logiciels que je trouves demande toujours got ou d'autres formats.... Je veux faire la cartographie, mais je ne comprends pas la façon que l'unité gère les formats de fichier. Tu peux m'envoyer un PM aussi si nécessaire.....

Allan

Beaulieu80 · « **Reply #3 on:** July 14, 2016, 08:20:28 AM »

You can't use the recording feature without an SD CARD inside. on your case is the micro-sd format.

You cannot use the recording file wich i believe is the SON file with ReefMaster or any other except AutoChart and DrDepth.

To create MAPS with all other software and Autochart you can use the GPX file. you need 3 value to create a map. LONG,LAT,Depth

http://www.gpsbabel.org/ provide options to export HT into GPX or HumminbirdPC to create the GPX file from HT one.

I have ReefMaster and Autochart. the easiest to work with it Autochart since I have a 798CIxHDSI unit,

But you can use ReefMaster map inside the Helix 5 ,this require more manual settings changes

sonar2000 · « **Reply #4 on:** July 14, 2016, 08:47:15 AM »

ReefMaster does read the record and the .son .dat file. Open Reefmaster and browse your files and select the .dat name to view in Reefmaster. I have not tried on any of the new products but it will read the older products. 900 1100 and 1200 series...... Chuck

saoulons · « **Reply #5 on:** July 14, 2016, 10:13:43 PM »

On my 798ci HDSI, when I record to the SD card, it creates the following file structure:

RECORD folder
PROFILE.TXT file

Inside the RECORD folder, there is:

R00001 folder
R00001.dat file
R00001.xml file

Inside the R00001 folder, there are pairs of files:

B00X.IDX
B00X.SON

Autochart and HumViewer will read from .SON files to get the depth data. Typically, if you "export" data to the SD card as mentioned above, it will export waypoints and tracks, not sonar data. The sonar data goes to the SD card only if you select "Start Recording" from the "Snapshot and Recording" view. Not sure if you have that view and menu in the Helix though.

After you record and put the SD card in your computer, you can browse the files on the SD card via Windows Explorer to see what the Helix generated. I typically copy all the data from the SD card to my computer before I use any software to play with it.

I hope this helps.

afaust · « **Reply #6 on:** July 17, 2016, 10:00:11 AM »

I want to thank all of you for your help with this. Saoulons, I see the file structure you mention, and yes, the helix has the recording view window.

I copy the files on my computer before using as well... That way I always have a copy of what I've done.

This brings me to another question. When exporting to the sd card, you said it will send waypoints and tracks. What format are they in, or will they copy over the son and idx files? Will export create the gpx file? Also mentioned was the ht file, how do I get that file? I understand the different file structures, however I do not understand how I can get the files in question... I only see the file structure that was mentioned earlier, which I understand gives me Lat/long/depth, but it's the lack of ht and gpx and the export feature that I do not.

Allan

saoulons · « **Reply #7 on:** July 17, 2016, 10:22:18 AM »

Waypoints, Routes and Tracks are totally different things than the "Recording" feature.

The Waypoints, Routes and Tracks get saved to a folder called MATRIX on the SD card and you have to export them explicitly to the SD card via the Navigation menu (otherwise they just get saved on your unit). They get saved as discrete objects.

My understanding is that the MATRIX folder is not used at all by the Recording feature, so there is no interference. It terms of format, I don't remember exactly but I am pretty sure that Waypoints get exported to the MATRIX folder in .gpx format.

The way I think about these two sets of features is that "Recording" is a stream of data: gps location, depth, bottom hardness, side imaging data that gets captured continuously at whatever interval you set, for however long you record. Waypoints and Routes are discrete gps locations that you mark and group explicitly. Tracks are confusing to me so not sure where they fit in.

If you are looking to do maps, then you want to be playing with the .dat, .son and .idx files. This is what Autochart uses. Autochart also enables you to create and import Waypoints and it does so with a totally separate source of data.

afaust · « **Reply #8 on:** July 17, 2016, 10:31:21 AM »

thx saoulons, it is appreciated. I understand it better now.

There was also mention of dr depth, which looks quite interesting, however, the site, the tech group, etc are all gone. is there a way to get a serial without having to get it hacked... id like to try it out (if it isnt too expensive) before i get autochart (which i cant afford at the moment), which will be what i eventually do.

Allan

saoulons · « **Reply #9 on:** July 17, 2016, 10:49:02 AM »

Unfortunately, I am not familiar with Dr. Depth. I use Humminbird PC (free), HumViewer (free) and Autochart (not free, obviously). If you want to do your own maps, I am not familiar with any of the software outside of Autochart so I can't be helpful, unfortunately.

But there are plenty of fun things you can do with Humminbird PC, HumViewer and the Navionics Web App (all are free). E.g., you can look for interesting depth changes in the Navionics Web App for your favorite lakes and create waypoints in Humminbird PC, you can replay your SI data in Humviewer, look for interesting structure and create waypoints. Then you can load all of these waypoints into Humminbird PC and view them in Google Earth. In the process, you'll learn to upload / download and manage waypoints between your unit and your PC.

I know that you want to do maps, but here are some other ideas for you to play with while you save up to get Autochart

afaust · « **Reply #10 on:** July 17, 2016, 11:19:36 AM »

Ok, now you've really piqued my curiosity.... And I want to understand.

I've avoided navionics, particularly because I don't like their idea of getting you to send them your data, and then charging you for updates using your own data for themselves.... That being said, I'm still interested in the map files because HB doesn't have any lake/river info for where I am in Ontario... I've used nationalprostaff to see the navionics data (I figure they are getting web app data from navionics), and I see tons of structure, but don't know how I can see the coordinates of areas I find interesting. Which brings me to your message.... Humviewer, I use... HBPC, I haven't yet (because I couldn't load any recorded info, which brought me to my questions about file types, because for one, I wanted to find out what I could load in, or at least convert to get a file type that I could load in, or a procedure on how to do it). I feel like an idiot, because I'm good with all kinds of software, but can't seem to understand what I need for HBPC....
I'd like to know where you find the web apps, and how to create the waypoints that I can use in google earth and the HB unit.... I think my issue is the understanding of how the unit uses the data and how I can enter in data myself, and the interaction to get a point from something I've seen online via naviinics, google earth etc, or from what I've seen while boating (i.e. My recordings, and I believe I understand that now, because I have created waypoints through humviewer, just haven't seen them on the bird yet, but If my understanding is correct, I'll see them somewhere under the waypoints/tracks menu... It's just the follow up point of understanding how to use them on the water once I've found them). Because I have found interesting areas "visually" when boating from memory of the online maps.. I.e. Shoreline markers, proximity to roadways etc, and then visually seeing the structure on the bird.. I.e. Knowing that the depth line I'm looking for is 12 ft in this approximate area....
I guess what I'm trying to say is that even though I have a good understanding of mapping, google earth, the unit etc, I'm having trouble seeing the interaction with the file types and putting it all together...., I thank you for the help you have already given me, I'm much further in my understanding, and I'm anxious to find out about this part....

saoulons · « **Reply #11 on:** July 17, 2016, 11:44:41 AM »

It's a bit of a manual process, but here is what I do if I am scouting out a new lake and preparing to go there:

Open the Navionics Web App in the browser and zoom in to the lake of interest
Open Google Maps in another browser and zoom in to the lake of interest

Open Humminbird PC
Open Google Earth

Find a point of interest in the Navionics Web App, eyeball the location in Google Maps and click on the location in Google Maps to get the GPS coordinates.
Create a new waypoint in Humminbird PC with these same GPS coordinates (beware of the format to make sure it is the right one)
View the waypoints in Google Earth (right click on the Waypoints and select "View in Google Earth") to make sure they are in the right spot

When done, use Humminbird PC to export the Waypoints to an SD Card.

Put the SD Card in your HB unit and the Waypoints will be loaded. Now you can see them in your navigation screen and can navigate to them to fish... Great way to highlight points, humps, steep drops, etc. And it's all free

You can also do the reverse. Mark waypoints in your unit while you are on the water, export them to SD card, load them in Hummibird PC and play with them: Delete redundant ones, view them in Google Earth, etc.

I hope this helps and isn't more confusing. The one thing to keep in mind is how the Waypoints go to / from the unit. I keep all of my Waypoints saved in a gpx file on my computer (which I manage via HB PC). You can create waypoints in different places - HumViewer, HB PC, your unit, etc. I keep one gpx file per lake and I consolidate the various sources of Waypoints via HB PC in a single gpx file. At the end of the day, for the Waypoints to show up in your unit, they need to be put in the MATRIX folder on a SD card and you need to load that card into your unit. I know that for my unit, no Waypoints get deleted unless you do it yourself in the Navigation menu. So as you load more waypoints, they get added to existing ones on your unit, which can get cluttered pretty quickly. I usually wipe my unit clean and reload with the SD card every 2 weeks or so (and download new waypoints I marked while fishing after every outing and consolidate via HB PC).

afaust · « **Reply #12 on:** July 17, 2016, 12:23:17 PM »

Hi,

The method that you use is crystal clear, and I get now how you get the waypoints from navionics etc, it isn't more confusing at all..., and of course, I like free.... Especially since I spent $2k on my boat and helix unit this year (mainly the boat to get it operational, the helix was a gift from me to me), which is why I haven't got auto chart yet. I may get the navionics in future anyways, just to have all the lake data that it does contain.., but will see on that.

As for the only question mark that I have at the moment, is the gpx format, and since I never tried "exporting" to the sd card, that will probably be how I get it, from what I've seen throughout the thread.... I'll be trying the different scenarios tonight, since I want to go to a new river this week with my daughter, and I want to highlight a few spots that I know exist on navionics....

i really appreciate the help with this, I've gotten further in one morning than I have in the past couple of months...

saoulons · « **Reply #13 on:** July 17, 2016, 12:56:23 PM »

In HB PC, if you have a SD card plugged in, you will see an option to download / upload to the SD card, this is the easiest way to create the data the can be uploaded to your unit.

Also, in HB PC, if you do "new" or "save as" or "open", it will give you the option to use a gpx file format. There is really no need to understand the details of the format if you use HB PC.

Honestly, HB PC is the easiest way I have found to start creating and managing waypoints between your unit and the computer... I'd install it, create a few waypoints, view them in Google Earth and try saving them on your PC (in gpx format) and on a SD card (via HB PC). Upload them in your unit for your trip.

During your trip, mark a few points on your unit, export them to an SD card and then load them in HB PC to play with them when you get back to dry land.

afaust · « **Reply #14 on:** July 17, 2016, 05:27:56 PM »

Yes, I understand completely now, I guess I was complicating things by just trying to import the wrong file type into HBPC and just got frustrated with it.
I just started a file using a local river that I intend to go to this week, and with the web apps (with sonar turned on), I've logged 14 points to date, and have probably a dozen more shortly (one where friends caught a nice oversize walleye, and I found where due to bouys and landmarks in the pictures they sent, and looking at the structure on navionics in the area, I can understand why)...

I really appreciate the help....

saoulons · « **Reply #15 on:** July 17, 2016, 06:12:16 PM »

Great, glad it's helpful. I actually checked and the format of the file that HB PC creates and it is .HWR in the matrix folder when you do "upload to SD card". It doesn't really matter though because HB PC uses gpx when saving to the computer and when importing from the SD card.

Have fun at the river! I really enjoy doing pre-scouting of a new location and putting a few waypoints in the unit. Doesn't guarantee good fishing but it's fun nonetheless

afaust · « **Reply #16 on:** July 17, 2016, 07:16:28 PM »

Hi, thx for the update. Just wondering... When I view in google earth, even though I found the spots in google maps, the data seems to be off.. After one point, but I suspect others may be off... I used the xx.xx.xx.x format rather than the decimal and negative long.... Is there a way I can modify in google earth, or do I have to start over? And should I have used the decimal Lat and neg long?

Allan

saoulons · « **Reply #17 on:** July 17, 2016, 07:35:56 PM »

Yeah, I found this the hard way myself as well, should have been more explicit to you. In HB PC, there is a setting for the units (under "Edits" -> "Preferences"). I keep my units as decimal degrees (dd.ddddd degrees) and then round up the last decimal since Google Maps has 6 decimals.

Negative Latitude (first digit) is South and Negative Longitude (second digit) is West in HB PC. All of my waypoints are North and West.

There is a small learning curve but once you get the hang of it, you don't have to think about it too much... That's why it's good to confirm in Google Earth that your coordinates are correct. I usually confirm after I create a new waypoint so that I don't go too far with wrong data... I think everyone has gone through that frustration

afaust · « **Reply #18 on:** July 17, 2016, 07:39:16 PM »

Lol, I just figured it out myself after looking at the preferences.... Not a problem.... Just part of the learning curve....

Beaulieu80 · « **Reply #19 on:** July 17, 2016, 10:07:44 PM »

Dr. Depth was bought from Humminbird to make it Auto chart.

with auto chart you can still manage dr depth files format

afaust · « **Reply #20 on:** July 17, 2016, 10:54:55 PM »

Thx for the info on dr depth... it looked similar to what autochart did, so it makes complete sense...

rnvinc · « **Reply #21 on:** July 18, 2016, 09:48:07 PM »

Quote from: afaust on July 17, 2016, 10:31:21 AM

thx saoulons, it is appreciated. I understand it better now.

There was also mention of dr depth, which looks quite interesting, however, the site, the tech group, etc are all gone. is there a way to get a serial without having to get it hacked... id like to try it out (if it isnt too expensive) before i get autochart (which i cant afford at the moment), which will be what i eventually do.

Allan

Dr Depth was bought by Johnson Outdoors and re-released as the Autochart PC products ...

http://www.johnsonoutdoors.com/uploadedFiles/Media/Press_Releases/Humminbird/JOME%20Aquires%20DrDepth.pdf

Someone may have a copy of the old Dr Depth software ...but it's unlikely you will find one for sale at any dealer anywhere ...

Rickie

afaust · « **Reply #22 on:** July 28, 2016, 05:24:06 PM »

how do change the dat file to a ht file? i cant read my recordings in humminbird pc.

saoulons · « **Reply #23 on:** July 28, 2016, 05:53:58 PM »

Are you trying to look at tracks or side imaging data?

Long story short, you can't view recordings in Humminbird PC, you can only view waypoints, tracks and routes that you would export via the Navigation menu (and that would show up in a MATRIX folder on your HD card). When you export these, it doesn't export to a .dat file.

You should be able to view the recordings in Humviewer though.

afaust · « **Reply #24 on:** July 28, 2016, 11:01:47 PM »

Quote from: saoulons on July 28, 2016, 05:53:58 PM

Are you trying to look at tracks or side imaging data?

Long story short, you can't view recordings in Humminbird PC, you can only view waypoints, tracks and routes that you would export via the Navigation menu (and that would show up in a MATRIX folder on your HD card). When you export these, it doesn't export to a .dat file.

You should be able to view the recordings in Humviewer though.

That is the one thing that I didn't understand. I understood about viewing in humviewer, but not HBPC.... I thought it could see the recordings as well.....

Allan

rnvinc · « **Reply #25 on:** July 29, 2016, 10:21:11 PM »

Quote from: afaust on July 28, 2016, 11:01:47 PM

That is the one thing that I didn't understand. I understood about viewing in humviewer, but not HBPC.... I thought it could see the recordings as well.....

Allan

This is a common misunderstanding ...

HB does not make a PC software or emulator for viewing the recordings on a computer ...

HB explains that the recording viewer in the unit itself is the emulator they provide ...

Rickie

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