Author Topic: 997 after 6.30 update problems? (Read 33755 times)

speeedman · « **on:** March 23, 2016, 12:54:26 AM »

Hi all, not sure what is going on. I updated to 6.30 having never updated my unit since I bought it new. After the update a couple issues have arose. Firstly the sonar digital display reads fine to 5-8' then it jumps to saying 18' but the sonar graph still shows 5-8' feet. I am sure the 5-8 is correct but the number display shows the 18' or more and seems to be adding 10' to the actual depth. Secondly the SI on the right side seems to only work clearly at less than 2mph and the right side of the water column has an orange continuous line running in it. If I speed up over 2mph it is completely non usable. Nothing has changed since before the update. I have tried many different settings with no help. Almost seems like the right side SI is picking up my engines lower unit now that I thought about it since getting off the water as the engine is right of the xducer. Again never had a problem with this before the update and have not changed xducer mount or anything. On the good side the DI (which is new to the unit since the update) does seem to work fine. Lastly I did check the voltage after I returned from the water and it was low at 10.5 volts. Tomorrow I thought I would hook the power up to a stand alone battery to up the voltage and also try trimming the motor out of the water to see if either help. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated, thank you for time - Steve

ITGEEK · « **Reply #1 on:** March 23, 2016, 11:44:29 AM »

Quote

Nothing has changed since before the update.

One thing has changed: Your battery has gotten older.

I would fully charge your battery, and have it load tested.
Places like autozone, and advance-auto will do this for free.
The amount of voltage left in a battery means nothing.
You could have 12.5 volts, but when a load is put upon a battery, it can drop to nothing, if
the battery is bad.

Next, check your wiring for good connections.
Have you re-wired and/or added any electrical accessories?
You may have some interference issues, especially from a trolling motor.

Take it step by step, eliminating the obvious first.
If nothing helps, then set all of your settings to default on your sonar unit.
If you find that interference is the problem, then get yourself a dedicated battery, just for your sonar. It can be a small battery.
Good Luck.

Bob B · « **Reply #2 on:** March 23, 2016, 06:44:52 PM »

Did you reset defaults after the update?

If the problem is speed dependent, it sounds like you are getting turbulence across the transducer for some reason. Have you looked at it to make sure it didn't get bumped out of alignment?

speeedman · « **Reply #3 on:** March 23, 2016, 06:56:41 PM »

ITGEEK - Thanks so much for helping. I did not have time to get the batteries checked. I will say I have cleaned all electrical connects before the update and problems. Also I have reset the unit to the default setting which did not help. Today I tried it again with a dedicated charged battery which did not help. I did not use the trolling motor either or other units. I am going to try to post some screen pics, I hope they work lol. Kinda at a lose now after trying the dedicated battery. The lake is shallow with no structure to speak of, basically a flat bottom made of soft muck. I could understand the black if both sides were the same but that is not the case. In the two pics I am going under a bridge which does have a hard bottom and got good returns with no black on the right side, soon as I left the bridge and got back to the same soft bottom on both sides again the right side goes black and the left side is good. If I speed up from 3 or so to over 4 the black on the right side gets worse. There is a pic of emergent lily pads (21) on the left in 2' of water (boat in 4.6)which is shown good but again the right side which is in 4 - 5' of water is black. Not sure if the pics help, just showing you what I am seeing. Thanks again for your time and effort with this. - Steve

speeedman · « **Reply #4 on:** March 23, 2016, 06:59:09 PM »

Bob yes I have inspected it and it looks fine, and yes defaults have been reset, a few times actually trying to get it worked out. Thank you.

Bob B · « **Reply #5 on:** March 23, 2016, 07:11:18 PM »

It sure acts like turbulence on the right side....the 3.5mph return looks OK....but so does one of the ones at 4.8 mph.

Is it ever black on the right side at or below 3.5?

speeedman · « **Reply #6 on:** March 23, 2016, 07:18:19 PM »

Bob = the 3.5 is under the bridge with a hard bottom - the only place I seem to get a good right side reading. I will look to see what could be causing any turbulence. Funny thing is I always used to have a 10hp trolling motor between the xducer and the big motor and never had any turbulence, these shots the trolling motor is not even on the boat. I will take a lot and see if I can find anything, weird this has only came up since I updated the unit. Thanks for you thoughts and I will get on it. - Steve

speeedman · « **Reply #7 on:** March 23, 2016, 07:22:20 PM »

Bob pic 7 you can see were I sped up and it got worse - below 3.5 it has been better. Here is a shot at 2. Thanks

speeedman · « **Reply #8 on:** March 23, 2016, 07:25:47 PM »

PS I don't understand the continuous yellow line in the water column on the right side in pic 1 either.

speeedman · « **Reply #9 on:** March 23, 2016, 07:44:47 PM »

I have just checked the xducer again and it is fine - not moved - in original position as it always has been - looked to see if I could find anything that would cause a disturbance and found nothing. I must be missing something some where.

Bob B · « **Reply #10 on:** March 23, 2016, 08:25:59 PM »

That yellow line to the right is caused by the signal reflecting off something on the right side .... can you post some pics of your transom from different angles?

speeedman · « **Reply #11 on:** March 23, 2016, 09:37:48 PM »

Bob , Here is a pic, I might have to send one at a time - Steve

speeedman · « **Reply #12 on:** March 23, 2016, 09:48:28 PM »

One more

speeedman · « **Reply #13 on:** March 23, 2016, 09:57:33 PM »

Another

speeedman · « **Reply #14 on:** March 23, 2016, 10:02:06 PM »

Last one

rnvinc · « **Reply #15 on:** March 23, 2016, 10:10:26 PM »

You're getting blockage from the lower unit ...

You can tilt the motor up during scanning ...

Or you can think about a dual SI xducer Setup with the AS SILR Y cable ...where the right SI, 2d and temp come from a right mounted HDSI ... And left SI will come from the left mounted HDSI ...

Rickie

speeedman · « **Reply #16 on:** March 23, 2016, 10:40:52 PM »

rn - I guess so - but it has worked fine for 3 years before I updated to the 6. update so something must have changed in the firmware after the update - I will have to look into making the changes you suggest - don't really know what changed since it has worked so long before the update. There is another xducer for my old lowrance unit on the right side I didn't really want to remove but its no big deal to lose it. Thanks for your input. I have a little work to do now. I was going to try trimming the motor out of the water and trying it with trolling motor power only today but I forgot to when I was on the water - daughter was getting cold as it was windy and about 44 degrees out today lol. Thanks and have a great night.

Bob B · « **Reply #17 on:** March 23, 2016, 11:07:34 PM »

When you were running the 10HP kicker, was the main motor trimmed up further?

You don't need to always luse the trolling motor if you can trim that main motor up some more when idling, you will create more clearance.

Also, closely check the level of the transducer (left to right) when the boat is in the water. Some of those shots make it appear that the right side is a little lower....but it may just be the angle that makes it appear that way.
If you used to have a kicker motor on the left side, the boat would be listing a little more to that side and somewhat correct for that.

I don't see how the update could have anything to do with this issue ..... I think maybe other things have changed at the same time.

speeedman · « **Reply #18 on:** March 24, 2016, 12:17:13 AM »

Bob, No with the kicker I always left the motor at normal trim as it is used for steering with the kicker and yes the ducer may be tilted a tiny bit, I know a little is a lot when distance is involved. I will see if I can get it closer to level. When using the kicker it is always trimmed up some when trolling like for shallow water - makes my speed perfect. I think I will try trimming the main motor up some first when scanning to see if that works before adding a right side ducer - I don't think that will be problem to run it trimmed up some. At some point I will be putting the kicker back on, just haven't had it on since I have not been trolling salmon on Lake Michigan lately, July comes I probably will want to go after some Skamania steelhead on the big lake, I live about 5 miles from it. Great after work fun. Still don't understand why things are different but it is what it is. Plan of fishing more inland lakes with my 14 yr old daughter as shes not into reeling in king salmon on 300' of lead core haha. Wanting to scan for crappie and other stuff in resorviors and natural lakes mostly this year. Thanks a whole bunch and I will post how things are going for sure. You and this site have been a great help and I appreciate it very much. I am going to make a donation to this site too. I hope things are going good with your unit(s) too, Have a great week and hope to chat soon. Steve

Bob B · « **Reply #19 on:** March 24, 2016, 06:48:58 AM »

Thanks speeedman .... I'm sure you will get this figured out. If trimming the main motor up a bit doesn't do it for you, I'm sure the dual transducer solution Rickie suggested will solve it for you.

ITGEEK · « **Reply #20 on:** March 24, 2016, 09:26:23 AM »

Speeedman,
I agree with the others that it looks like your right side beam is catching the front of your motor lower unit.
Have you changed anything on the boat, as far as weight distribution/more passengers, bigger gas tank, that would cause the transom to squat more than what it used to do?
If you did, then you would naturally tilt the motor in a little to get the bow down.
This may be what is happening.

speeedman · « **Reply #21 on:** March 24, 2016, 11:44:27 AM »

IT - No the weights never change with the exception of the kicker coming on and off at times, fuel tank is mid ship too - clear scanning has always worked either way in the past. Only thing I am thinking now is maybe I have the big motor trimmed up more normally to plane the boat for speed as this local lake has a 10mph limit and I don't trim it like most lakes as I usually only go about 5mph on it. Years ago I got a speeding ticket from the DNR in a 12' aluminum boat with a 9.9 on it, lmao. What a crock of shit that was lol. I will try trimming it up next time out but not today as it is raining. Saturday should be on a normal lake with some depth, scanning a 5' deep basically flat muck bottomed lake with no structure is kind boring, it doesn't even have weeds, just pads near the shore, a normal lake will be more of a real situation all around. Thanks and I will let you know how it goes.

Spd 135 · « **Reply #22 on:** March 24, 2016, 01:41:39 PM »

The yellow line is a multipath echo. When the signal goes out, it returns. The transducer can't absorb all of the return so some of it passes. Then it strikes your lower unit / motor and reflects back across the transducer causing it to absorb this return. With shallow transducers the surface can also cause this. It's not an issue. It's just something you account for an disregard.

Is your sonar set at 455 mhz or 800 mhz? With 800 mhz you get more clarity but less coverage. If at 800 mhz 40' could be too far for the beam if the depth is greater on the right side.

You could also be getting some interference, in the water, from the motor intake which could block the image by disturbing the water there.

Humminbird seems to do best at speeds of 3-5 mph with matching scroll speed.

If there is a lot of soft bottom on that right side, that will also explain the black as there has to be roughness for acoustical reflectivity. If the depth is becoming greater and there is a soft bottom, there isn't enough roughness for that return. Try another area where there is bottom hardness on both sides and see if that changes your image.
I am posting 4 images. In Lake Pontchartrain there is a channel that has about 5' of silt in it. My image went dark when I went over it. That is the first 3 images. The last image is from the same unit in deep water in a submerged mountain range in Kentucky. No darkness because I have good acoustical reflectivity. I hope this helps. Mark

mike fish · « **Reply #23 on:** March 25, 2016, 01:12:11 AM »

Spd 135, Thanks for the tip on soft bottom return with the one side blacking out. I think you just answered or potenional solution to a question I've had about my unit while in the channel of a marina I use sometimes. Thanks.

speeedman · « **Reply #24 on:** March 25, 2016, 09:25:16 PM »

SPD - The beam was on 455 and the whole lake has a soft bottom and shallow, in the middle of the lake with soft bottom on both sides the right side is dark and not the left notice the under the bridge shots I get good signal on both sides - np motor interference - and I know its hard bottom under the bridge, in the one pic you can see leaving the bridge wing walls decent signal then it get bad on the right side soon as I get back into the soft lake bottom - never had this right side problem on this lake before over the last couple years. Its a old dammed up river and the only hard spots are under the bridges where the muck stays washed away. If you try to walk across the lake itself you sink knee deep in sticky black muck not vegetative muck.. Tomorrow I am going to a different place with deeper water and harder bottom. Also going to try trimming the motor up more to avoid any interference that may be happening, also will try the 800mhz. Just never had any problems in the last few years the unit has always worked great. Thanks for your thoughts and idea's. I will post findings Saturday night or Sunday.

Spd 135 · « **Reply #25 on:** March 25, 2016, 10:01:57 PM »

If you have a trolling motor, try that with the engine off and see if you get anything different. If not and you know someone with another boat have them pull you. Bubbles are a sonar's worst enemy. If it is not bottom composition creating this issue, the next thing to rule out is turbulence either from the prop or the intake on the foot. In pics 11 and 18 look at your down image. At 3.5' it looks like bubbles. That may be the issue. Image 20 (DI) shows a ton of interference, or turbulence, likely bubbles. The other DI images seem to also have a slight amount of interference showing. I am getting that it started at the upgrade, but in case it is a coincidence ruling the engine out would be good. Mark

Spd 135 · « **Reply #26 on:** March 25, 2016, 10:47:09 PM »

Is the fitting with the plastic nut your bilge exhaust? Any chance you are leaking and the bilge is blowing water out? Mark

rnvinc · « **Reply #27 on:** March 26, 2016, 12:53:39 PM »

You can remove the xducer and temporarily attach it to a pole and stick way down in the water ... or even aim the right piezo toward open water ...

If the issue goes away = there is blockage on the starboard side of the xducer ...

Rickie

speeedman · « **Reply #28 on:** March 27, 2016, 11:13:10 AM »

Hi guys, I have tried with the trolling motor only, tried with the big motor trimmed high up, tried changing frequency, tried slower/faster tried drifting with the wind with nothing on. Towards the end of the day just went with left side only. Really frustrated I even updated, only reason I updated was I bought the new navionics update card. Not sure if the unit or ducer took a shit or what, maybe I should try buying a new ducer. Hell I was thinking of getting a second humminbird unit on the boat but now have huge reservations with that. I feel like when my mother got a flat tire on her car - fixing the tire wasn't enough she wanted a new car - AND GOT ONE!! LMAO I guess I will take the ducer off and play with that. I hate to repeat my self but no problems what so ever before the update. I am now officially pissed off messing with something that has worked perfectly for years. I used to race/build stock cars - if a part didn't work we would say time to float test it. If you don't know what that means - throw it in the lake, if it floats go get it and try it again haha. Oh and that plastic nut is a factory installed livewell intake which I don't even use the live wells except for storage. Really need to test the unit and ducer seperatly but don't know where I could do that. I believe the unit/ducer only has 210 hrs on it. Thanks so much guys for your thoughts - going to work on it some more.

mike fish · « **Reply #29 on:** March 27, 2016, 11:39:09 AM »

Are you able to update back to a previous version you had? Might be worth a try. Myself I'm running older software in my 798 because I didn't like what I was getting with the updates so I went back to one I felt was okay. For me personally if it's working I probably won't ever update again but that's just me.
It does seem coincidental it happened after update. I'd definitely try mounting TD on a stick or even just hang it over side of boat to see if it changes.

speeedman · « **Reply #30 on:** March 27, 2016, 11:56:43 AM »

Mike , not sure if I can but surely could look into it, I don't really know what ver. I had before I updated, I may have it wrote down somewhere, it was whatever came with the unit. Just trying other things first before I attempt it.

bobcoy · « **Reply #31 on:** March 27, 2016, 12:13:25 PM »

Speedman. There have been a lot of great suggestions here. I will add mine. If you mount that HDSI as close to the keel as possible,(just left of your drain) you will eliminate most of the reflections, blockages and turbulence from under your hull wing. If that is the original transducer it may well be on its last legs.(maybe from the last freeze-thaw from this past winter) Helix 9si is very reasonable and has some great new features. Good luck, Bob

speeedman · « **Reply #32 on:** March 28, 2016, 10:58:53 AM »

Thanks Bob, I mounted the ducer on a 1" x 2" thought I would try it deeper than the boat next time out and also ordered a trolling motor ducer to try, thinking I could mount the 997 up front and get a Helix or something for the console. Been wanting a second unit anyway. On the other hand maybe even update the boat with 2 new units, one front and one console and link them, probably be the best scenario. Steve

speeedman · « **Reply #33 on:** May 11, 2016, 10:01:13 PM »

Well I am done with this POS. I have tried many things to no avail. A new transducer does not even show the right side at all although the left side does work. Scared to even think about replacing it with another humminbird after the problems with this one. Not sure what I am going to get, hell I was going to get a helix 9 and 10 to up grade from the single 997 but now I have second thoughts on that. I ws even thinking of a 10 touch screen until I was told they are being pulled off the shelf due to the touch not working. Maybe time to change to a different brand. Atleast my old lawrance unit still works like new. I only got 198 hrs from the 997. Up dating has really f*cked up my perfectly good unit. any one interested in a used 997? Cheap - Very Cheap.

Thanks to all those that have suggested solutions.

mike fish · « **Reply #34 on:** May 11, 2016, 10:27:42 PM »

Well that sucks. Sorry to hear nothing would work for you.
I've looked into switching brands also but one thing I like about HB is the hot keys and relativity low cost compared to other brands. I recently bought a 999 while looking for something for FIL boat but haven't installed it yet. May buy another brand and mount both and decide from there how to proceed with future purchases.

speeedman · « **Reply #35 on:** May 14, 2016, 02:32:35 AM »

Last try to get this boat anchor working. I loaded ver 5.something into the unit and going to try it one last time. I have put new batteries in the boat and bought a new transducer all for not. If that doesn't help its going in the trash or maybe the bottom of the lake. Whats the best unit to purchase new with mapping di and si? I don't care about price - I just want something that works and don't really care to have another HB. Seems to be an awful lot of problems with all the HB units.

speeedman · « **Reply #36 on:** May 14, 2016, 06:47:11 PM »

Well ver. 5.84 did not help at all, seems to be the same as 6.3. I just want the boat with the 997 on it to burn to the ground now. Scared to buy a new unit after reading all the problems people have had. So glad I did not get the 2 new units I was going to order, then have to update them the day you open the box. Does anyone's unit actually work? All I read about is problems, and to think about a 360 = forget that. Sorry for venting but I am pissed off. Updating has sure screwed up my unit. For the money one should get more than 200 hrs on a unit.

Bob B · « **Reply #37 on:** May 14, 2016, 09:09:39 PM »

I understand the frustration of trying to fix a problem that keeps eluding you .... It kind of sounds like the head unit is failing ...or you have some power problem the is causing issues. I don't really think the software update had anything to do with your issues......just a co-incidence.

When you start reading the forums for any of the brands, a LOT of what you see will be the people who are having problems and trying to figure out how to correct it.

The vast majority of people running the Helix units are very happy with them. Humminbird moved the whole industry to a lower cost/performance when they introduced the Helix line.....but you gotta do whatever will make you happy.....just don't expect us to agree with you when you start badmouthing Humminbird because you had a problem with your unit.

mike fish · « **Reply #38 on:** May 14, 2016, 11:07:52 PM »

Does anyones unit work? Yes, almost all of the people I know that have HB hasn't had any trouble expect one and the boat dealer swapped it out since it was brand new. Myself I wasn't so lucky I had a few issues. I wasn't sure if I was going to buy another HB but did mostly on impulse buy as I was out shopping for FIL's boat. I'm still going to buy something for him and try them both out on my boat here and which ever one is flawless will go up north. There is no internet up there so there will be no updating. It's 5 hours away so it has to work flawlessly.
I agree with Bob usually folks come to internet when there is a problem, I know I did.
Brothers buddy is diehard Lowrance. He bought 2 new ones a couple years ago, one was a 10 or 12 touch something or another. He had lots of problems with that one. He just sold it last month and bought another one because he wasn't going to keep that POS.
One nice thing about HB is there seems to be a pretty good support network for current models like this site.

Good luck to you. Believe me I understand your frustration.

speeedman · « **Reply #39 on:** May 15, 2016, 12:20:09 AM »

Looks like I only have a few options. Send it in for testing or buy a new unit. Just don't want to end up in the same position I am now. Bought a brand new I pilot head for my trolling motor a month ago or so - one wire hook up and that did not work one second, MK (Johnson) had to send a new replacement head to replace the brand new one. Did not even make it to the water with that purchase, had to be replaced before the boat left the garage.

rnvinc · « **Reply #40 on:** May 16, 2016, 01:02:17 AM »

Speeedman ... Did you try the xducer on a pole stuck way down in the water to verify 100% that there is no blockage from something on your transom ... ??

HB doesn't release every note included in any specific release ...and it's very possible they could have made some changes in how the unit handles reflection data from the side lobes of the sound pulse ... Which could very possibly be blocked partially by things attached to your transom ...

Rickie

speeedman · « **Reply #41 on:** May 16, 2016, 12:35:19 PM »

Rickie, yes I tried the pole the same day I tried a new TD. I am on the phone with HB now waiting on hold. They hung up on me while I was waiting so I have called them back. I know its not really a good time to call right now. They returned my email and suggested resetting defaults. Have done that many times already. I am number 3 now for a CS rep, I started a 9 15 minutes ago. Will let you know what they say.

Thanks,
Steve

speeedman · « **Reply #42 on:** May 16, 2016, 01:06:22 PM »

Well Rickie, HB said the unit is no longer serviceable and there is nothing they can do. Only suggestion they had was to down grade the software which I have already done. They did look to see if they could find the software it came with but could not find it. They offered nothing else. It was a short call. I guess its time to purchase new equipment. I will probably mess with it a bit more while I decide what direction to go. Thanks a ton for your time and thoughts and I hope you have a great week what ever you do.

Steve

ITGEEK · « **Reply #43 on:** May 16, 2016, 01:28:55 PM »

speeedman:
It's possible a waypoint could have corrupted your system.

As a last ditch effort:
Try backing up up all of your routes, tracks, and waypoints to an SD card.
I would also back them up to a PC hard drive, just to be sure.
Then format your NAV directories.
Then, set all settings to default.
Then, re-install the newest update.
Then, set all settings to default.
Then, reload your waypoints.
Then test.
Good Luck.

speeedman · « **Reply #44 on:** May 16, 2016, 01:41:49 PM »

ITGEEK I will surely give it a try. Should be on the water in the water in the next day or two and post what happens. Thanks.

Steve

speeedman · « **Reply #45 on:** May 18, 2016, 07:26:41 PM »

ITGEEK, I deleted the nav files, did the restore defaults, reloaded 6.3 then restored defaults again. Unit still the same on the water. I also found a note I had which showed the version I originally had so I downloaded it to a disk to have it with me so I restored defaults again and loaded it (4.510) back into the unit and now it loads but wont get past the loading screen and starts looping the loading screen, so it wont even get past the load screen anymore. Only way to shut it off is to pull the power cord out. Time to move on so tomorrow I am going to get on the phone and order 2 new units and start fresh with a complete new installation. Hopefully things will go smooth with that. I greatly appreciate all the help you and the others have given me. Thanks so much.

Steve

speeedman · « **Reply #46 on:** May 24, 2016, 10:01:28 AM »

Two days after my call to HB I got a follow up email generated from the phone call - "If there is anything we can do please email". So I emailed back and said no and explained that there rep said it was no longer serviceable and there is nothing we can do so I am in the process of purchasing 2 units from a different manufacture. I got an immediate email back (9 pm central time) saying they will be contacting me quickly. That was Thursday night . Today is Tuesday morning and no word from them yet. Kinda got me on hold right now waiting to hear from them

speeedman · « **Reply #47 on:** May 25, 2016, 08:25:37 AM »

Well its Wednesday, HB has not contacted me yet after saying they would "contact me quickly" I have nothing good to say for CS.................................. time to remove the equipment from the boat and round file it unless someone wants it for parts.

rnvinc · « **Reply #48 on:** May 25, 2016, 08:38:43 PM »

I dread the day my 1197 finally craps out ...

I love that old machine ... We go WAY back ...

Sorry things didn't work out for the better speeedman ...

Rickie

speeedman · « **Reply #49 on:** May 26, 2016, 12:33:00 AM »

Rickie, thanks and hope your 1197 lasts a long time for sure. As for me, oh well, its not the end of the world, I have a good reason to upgrade now haha, just hard making a decision on what replace the 997 with. Thinking about the Onix's but the Helix sure would be easier as far as the learning curve goes, I am sure both are fine I just need to make up my mind. I already ordered new wire, fuse holders and connectors so I will have it when I do decide what unit(s) to purchase. Kinda beating my brain on a 360 because it wont work on my terrova which means a new trolling motor also. Probably wait on the 360 until the unit(s) are installed. Add in the new truck camper I will be buying soon and my fishing budget will stretched for the year lmao. Already hurt it a little with a few new chronarchs and Loomis rods but all is good. Talk to you soon and have a great night.

Steve

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