Topic: 798cSI vs 898cSI

[muskyhunter]

Hello from Wisconsin.  I joined this forum to open up a discussion on the differences between the Humminbird 798cSI and the 898cSI models.  I am interested in purchasing one of these models but having a problem deciding for fresh water, small to mid-size lake use.   I realize a larger display is desirable, but spending $2000.00 on the 998 is not an option at this time.  Here is the dilemma:

The 798cSI is about $1000.  The 898cSI is about $1500.  What does that $500 get you?

First off, the physical display size of the 798 is 3" high by 4" wide.  The 898 is 3.5" high by 6" wide.  The 898 offers 1/2" more vertical area which is helpful but not significant.  The 898 offers two inches more in width, but the left display area is consumed with numerical data and is roughly 1.5" wide.  The "effective" display area between the two models is close.

Second, the pixel resolution for the 798 is 600x600 pixels.  The 898 is 480x800 pixels.  The vertical resolution for the 798 offers 120 more lines of resolution for the up to down display of the side scan imaging.

Power for the 798 is 500W RMS vs. 1000W RMS for the 898.

The 798 is single beam 455KHz side scan where the 898 is dual beam 455KHz/800KHz side scan.  Humminbird support stated to me that " The 455kHz is primarily the more common frequency used in the Side Imaging and is used for all applications. The 800kHz frequency is seldom used as this is best used on hard flat bottoms that extra detail would need to be pulled up for verifying the detail of structure on the bottom."

It seems to me that the 798 is a bargain compared to the 898.  The effective display area of the 898 is about 1/2"H x 1/2"V more, which is not significant.  The 798 has better vertical pixel resolution yielding sharper images for the up to down display of the side scan.  The 800KHz side scan frequency is seldom used (according to Humminbird) and the power of 500W RMS of the 798 seems more than adequate for my needs as my previous 300W unit worked in all my fishing conditions.

So for $500 more on the 898, which is half the price of a second 798 for the boat, is the $500 better spent on the 898?   I can't see it and looking for reasons to go for the 898.  Any advice?

[RGecy]

Muskyhunter,

First off, welcome to the forum.  For a first post you made it a good one!  I am sure you will get some good responses.

Have you had a chance to look at an 898c and 798c side by side?  I would recommend this as a first step in making your decision.  In my oppionion, the difference in screen size is considerable!

The new 800 series also offers faster processors and graphics engine, video out, ethernet port (future use, hopefully not too far away!), Contour XD Built In, Lakemaster Compatible

The display on the 898 is also a Color TFT capable of viewing 65,000 colors, where as the 798 is 256 Color TFT .

After all this, you also have the HDSI transducer with 800khz.     Yes, 455khz gives you the best overall coverage, but the 800khz has amazing detail!

Ultimately you will have to decide what is right for your budget.  If $1500 is affordable, I think its a no-brainer!

Good Luck and hope that helps!

Robert Gecy
 

[Triton Mike]

Hi MuskyHunter,  There is a HUGE difference in screen size going from a 700 series to a 800 series unit.  While it may not sound like there is much difference in screen size based on the measurements but when on the water it's like going from a portable TV to a Plasma.  Your eyes will thank you later especially on the SIde Imaging portion of the screen. 

Mike

[boulder80504]

  A couple of things I would add.

1.  I don't think the 798 has the extra connections.  The next logical place for Humminbird to go is to link the GPS/Sonor to the Minnkota trolling motors.  They aren't linking now but the IPilot is just one step removed from this.  This is a huge step forward from a fishing perspective and I would imagine just about any application that uses a trolling motor and GPS/Sonor combo.

2.  Navionics Platinum chips - This is kind of a touchy subject for me because all the documentation says the 898 supports these but Humminbird shipped the units without software that supports this feature.  I spoke to customer service and they said the software would be updated soon but they couldn't give me a date.  It is a bad way to introduce a product.  All that said, I don't think the 700 series supports the Navionics Platinum chips.

  Good luck and recognize there are deals out there for the new units - 1278 to my home for the 898si

  Boulder

[muskyhunter]

Thanks guys.  Some good comments on this.  On the subject of the processor and graphics engine, is there an article or other information that gets into some greater detail about it?  Has that been discussed before?  Interesting that Humminbird doesn't seem to want to point out that difference. 

I did miss on discussing the video-out and the color rendering.  For the video-out, I am not sure if I would ever use the feature, but who knows?  Something we grow into.

As for the color rendering, the differences between 256 or 65000 colors would seem make sense on a computer for photo editing, but considering the type of data displayed, wouldn't 256 be more than adequate for the base colors of mapping or the sonar display?  Or does higher color pallet render better shadow detail in the side scan mode even though the colors seem to vary more between shades of blue, gray, and white? 

For the transducer, there are differences between both models.  The 898 shares the same transducer with the 998 and up models with the XHS-9-HDSI-180-T transducer.  The 798 has it's own XNT-9-SI-180-T transducer.  Does  the HDSI make reference to advanced circuitry or is this just the difference between single and dual frequency side scan? 

There was a good point on the Navionic's premium maps in that the 3D rendering, satellite views, and panoramic lake photos, and 1 foot contours.  Other than the 1 foot contours which would be helpful, are the remaining features more "eye candy" or have you found useful situations to have that kind of detail? 

GPS connectivity with the trolling motor would get me to open the wallet wide, but I would have to somehow find a way around my firewall (wife).  Spending winters analyzing maps and plotting routes, then loading that information into the GPS for ready access routes to drive the boat would be nirvana to the tenth degree. 

......  Boy, this is truly a difficult decision.  I have not had the experience in using either GPS mapping on a locator nor do I have anyone that I know who has a side scan system that I can get some hands-on time with.   The 898 was not available yet the last time I looked.  I guess a trip is in order to visit the sport shop to see both side by side.

Your comments are greatly appreciated.  Keep 'em going.

 

[Llunker]

2.  Navionics Platinum chips - This is kind of a touchy subject for me because all the documentation says the 898 supports these but Humminbird shipped the units without software that supports this feature.  I spoke to customer service and they said the software would be updated soon but they couldn't give me a date.  It is a bad way to introduce a product.  All that said, I don't think the 700 series supports the Navionics Platinum chips.

  Good luck and recognize there are deals out there for the new units - 1278 to my home for the 898si

  Boulder

+2 here on the platinum chips--also when i bought my 997c SI  I didnt realize it till later but there is no  seperate graphics processor for the 997 like the 1197 therefore I am unable to use the Exaggeration feature of the Platinum chips.  With that being said the new 898 and 998 will have the co-processors --so these units will be able to support that feature.

The 798 will not even take a platinum card--but if you dont want the bells and whistles of the Platinum cards then the 798 is for you.

I am thinking seriously about putting one on the bow of my boat now--better resolution yes at 600 X 600 vs. the HDS -5 of lowrance ...no brainer there too for which one i would choose there.

Its kinds like shopping for a Car--which options do you want and which ones can you live without.

Hope that helps

[muskyhunter]

Sorry for all the questions, but here is one more.  How does one go about mounting the transducer on the trolling motor.  I have a band clamp around mine, but looking at this transducer, it seems to have a long shaft to the mount bolt.  Seems like it would be a bit fragile running in the shallow:

http://store.humminbird.com/products/314029/XHS_9_HDSI_180_T

[RGecy]

There are several options.  Here are probably two most common.

You have the standard Humminbird Trolling Motor Transducer Mount

http://store.humminbird.com/products/314024?product_id=6b8ab34c3b1abeda93bd4dd890814210



or the Transducer Shield and Saver Mount
http://transducershieldandsaver.com/home/

Hope that helps.

Robert

[Llunker]

Sorry for all the questions, but here is one more.  How does one go about mounting the transducer on the trolling motor.  I have a band clamp around mine, but looking at this transducer, it seems to have a long shaft to the mount bolt.  Seems like it would be a bit fragile running in the shallow:

http://store.humminbird.com/products/314029/XHS_9_HDSI_180_T

IT is VERY FRAGILE running like that --that is why all the pro's including me are running with Transducer Shield and Saver.  Here is mine and Yes i know this is on the Jackplate in the back--but you can also do this same setup with the trolling motor just without the L-bracket that you see on mine.



A friend of mine by the name of Scap(which i think is an English Name--UK--cause he does have an accent that is not southern- HEHEHEHE) and his wife Shirley own this little company and even sell in Cabelas or BPS --anyways here is his WWW.

http://transducershieldandsaver.com/home/

Tell him I sent ya

Bobby


oh and before i forget --here is a little video of what i am talking about that i found on you tube.

Transducer Shield and Saver

[muskyhunter]

Excellent!  Transducer saver and shield is the ticket.  I like it.

[muskyhunter]

Okay, I have learned more about some of the differences between these two models after visiting my sports store.  One question that goes unanswered is the SD card slots.  The 898 is not currently offered as a NVB package (Navionics Bundle).  With the 898, would I be able to load the Navionic's chip in one slot and the LakeMaster card in a second slot and be able to display either mapping option, or do I need to physically swap cards depending on what lake I am on?

As for my first take on the 798 and 898 difference, here are some observations:

256 vs 65000 colors:  The color rendering of the 898 with more colors does improve the image quality from the perspective that gradient transitions between light and dark of a given color are more gradual.   The 798 is capable of delivering sharp images with the additional vertical pixels, but seems to be a difficult read in some scenarios because the limited color pallet displays images with too much contrast.  The processor has to choose between less gradient shades to accurately display the image.  Subtle structure images are not as pronounced as with the higher color pallet.

Output Power:  While the 898 is published as having 1000 watts RMS power over the 500 watt RMS on the 798, there is a question of whether this is usable.  From another forum, there are two posts that are of interest to me.  One suggests that the XHS 9 HDSI transducer is rated for a 500 watt maximum and that in order to utilize the 898, 998 and higher models power output, a separate transducer must be purchased and that Humminbird only offers higher input power rated transducers on in-hull transducers.  The second post from a Humminbird insider suggests there are no internal differences between the 898 and 998 models with exception of screen size.  (reference http://www.xumba.scholleco.com/viewtopic.php?t=2214&sid=91ace53cda894ca01a2b65e61b08bae6)

Menu:  The 798 that I tested did not have the software update for the down scan.  I could not confirm if the downscan and sidescan views can be displayed at the same time. Does anyone know if there is a mode to do this?   The 898 is a hands down winner on the menu options as you have more customization of your display, frame position, and has a stunning large view of the downscan across the entire display.  The numerical displays to the left can be partially or fully hidden if desired.  The view options were the most intriguing feature for me on this unit.

Display Size/Views:  In certain views, the effective display area is about the same as expected.  There are benefits to the 800 pixel wide screen in certain views.  In split screen modes, the effective areas are not dramatically larger, but when viewing map data along with a secondary frame, the map view is more usable that the horizontal split on the 798 model.  The only view that I did not like on the 898 unit was the sidescan and GPS map view.  Because of the vertical split the sidescan information was narrow, even after adjusting the split screen frames.  The horizontal split would be more desirable for this combination.   The key would be to use one of the three preset buttons to toggle favorite views for sidescan view only.  While the 798 also has these presets, for sidescan information the narrow screen does compress the image. 

898c SI NVB:  I have a request into Humminbird for information of when an 898c SI NVB model would be released.  Optimally, I do not want to be in a situation to have to swap cards.  On the other hand, a NVB model probably will not have the platinum maps and would have to weigh if the Navionic's platinum features are important to me.

[muskyhunter]

Found my answer to the dual map card question on page 43 of the 898 manual.  Using the Chart Select option, you choose to read from slot 1 or slot 2.   If two map cards are installed and this setting is left to the "auto" setting, will the locator default to slot 1 to read the map, or will the unit error out requiring you to manually select the desired slot?

[muskyhunter]

Thanks for you help everyone.  Having spent a lot of time researching the 798cSI and the 898cSI, I have finally made a decision.  I am sure the 798cSI is a good unit but I had to go with the 998cSI, not the 898cSI.  Display size was the key decision and the views that this model offered.

I ordered it today along with the AS-GR50 antenna.  Got 10% off on both.  Humminbird is no longer selling the AS-GRHA antenna and felt the GR50 should be good enough.  Been finding fish cribs by memory so this should be okay. 

Suggestions on antenna mounts for the bow? 

[RGecy]

Muskyhunter,

The units now ship with GR50.  You should not need to order one unless you need an extra one for some reason!

Glad to see you went with the 998c.  I hope mine will be here soon as well!  Maybe Greg will go snag me one and put my name on it!

Robert

[muskyhunter]

Really?   Humminbird customer service made no mention of that.  If it does come with it then it shouldn't be a problem returning the extra one (i hope).

[Llunker]

no --you souldn't have any problems returning it.  In fact they are awesome--If you ever need anything as far a HB goes email my friend here

Eddie Kendrick---  ekendric@johnsonoutdoors.com

I emailed him yesterday about not having my rubber washers on the ends where the unit mounts and he fed-ex --NO COST TO ME !!! and i got them today.

UNREAL !!!! 

The CS at HB is unmatched and I will never go back to Lowrance because of that fact.  These guys are there for you --most importantly after the sale

Hope that helps ya and tell him i sent ya

Bobby

[muskyhunter]

Thanks Llunker.  I bought the antenna from a retailer, but it shouldn't be a problem.  I agree with you on the service side.  One thing I do when deciding on a software solution for work is that after the trial installations, I do leverage the phone support and evaluate their response time and service.  Last year when I was debating between Lowrance and Humminbird, I did the same by placing multiple calls to support for product questions.  Lowrance was typically in the 25-45 minute range to pick up, Humminbird was not more that 10 minutes at worst. 

With that in mind, I started to search the forums and weighed the gripes from people on the HDS units and the Humminbird.  Customer service is key and I recognized Humminbird as delivering in that department.  I only wish their customer service group had a level 2 group to handle more technical questions as they don't seem to do as well with those type of inquiries. 

[Llunker]

If you ever need any Real Technical data stuff answered and Eddie can't answer it you can always go right to the top of SW support.

Tom Vickers--Lead engineer and SW writer for the HB products---This is the man I think that actually wrote most of the SW for the units.  Don't take my word on this for sure--but i do know he is up there as far as technical stuff goes. 

tvickers@johnsonoutdoors.com

He can answer any question you may have about any product --

Hope this helps for future reference

Bobby