Author Topic: 1197 Traditional Sonar Problems (Read 26170 times)

basswacker68 · « **on:** April 21, 2014, 08:42:45 AM »

Hello,
I have been trying to trouble shoot an issue I'm having with my 1197c.
The traditional sonar is reading 1.6' 90% of the time. It does switch back to the view
it should have but not often any more.
Everything has worked for three years. This year for what ever reason I'm having this problem. After talking to a HB rep at Bass Pro in February I've replace the transucer in the hull, changed several settings, etc. Changing the transducer made no difference.
The only two things left on the boat is the Y cable and the SI tranducer. The Y cable is relativley inexpensive and somewhat easy. The SI transducer is more costly and time consuming. Any suggestions?
Thanks.

LittleGazoo · « **Reply #1 on:** April 21, 2014, 10:03:26 AM »

First: I would have bypassed the Y-cable and tested the 1197 using the 2D sonar from the 1197's HDSI transducer. HB labels should be on each cable.

Second: I would have checked all the 1197 plug connections. Carefully and slightly bend the male-connectors of the 2D sonar plug so the connection feels solid.

Be sure to do all testing on-the-water.

Humminbird_Greg · « **Reply #2 on:** April 21, 2014, 12:56:11 PM »

Welcome to the Humminbird Side Imaging Forums basswacker68. Sorry your first post has to be under try circumstances.

When you replaced that transducer in the hull, did you test it on the water before you epoxied it in place? If not, than the installation 9or transducer) could still be a possible source of the problem you are seeing.

I would test per LittleGazoo and remove AS-Si-DB-Y cable and plug each transducer into the unit and test them separately and see what you get while the boat is drifting. If both transducers still show this same problem than the issue is with your unit.

basswacker68 · « **Reply #3 on:** April 22, 2014, 10:35:26 PM »

Guys,

I took the boat out tonight and tested the 1197 by bypassing the Y cable. I plugged only the power and the two dual beam transducers into the unit. Of course each transducer one at a time.
Essentially the same result. The water column on the screen is red and the depth was reading either 1.6 or 2.6 while the boat was in the slip in about 8' of water.
I did try resetting to default settings and going through the transducer selections and other setting.
It appears the unit is not functioning properly.
I am trying to get in touch with someone who has the same unt on their boat in order to hook mine up on theirs and likewise theirs on my boat to test. Haven't found anyone yet.

Thanks for the advise.

ITGEEK · « **Reply #4 on:** April 23, 2014, 07:43:52 AM »

This is what I would do in your situation. I would try everything I could before sending the unit in. It's a shot in the dark, and it's going to be a pain, but, I would try it:

It's possible your software has become corrupted by
God only knows what.
I would backup all of my saved waypoints, routes, and tracks
to an SD card, and then save them to my PC hard drive.
Make sure you have a good backup before you continue or you could
lose some very important stuff.
Then I'd format the NAV directories, and let everything get cleaned out.
Then reset all settings to default.
Then, I'd install a newer software update (if available).
If not available, then go to the next older one.
You can always go back to your current version.
Version 6.310 works well with the 1197 (How do I know? Because I have an 1197 with 6.310 on it).
Then, I'd import the waypoints back in and test the unit on the water.
This procedure won't cost you any money, but it will cost you some time.
It might be time well spent.
Good Luck.

basswacker68 · « **Reply #5 on:** April 23, 2014, 08:37:48 AM »

Thanks ITGEEK.
I will try the reformatting tonight. I have already put all the waypoints on my laptop so they are saved.
I'll update this post once I get this done and tested.

basswacker68 · « **Reply #6 on:** April 23, 2014, 08:43:35 AM »

I forgot to add the photo I took last night during the testing of the transducers strait to the unit.

ITGEEK · « **Reply #7 on:** April 23, 2014, 10:33:37 AM »

basswacker:
This could be a silly question, but I have to ask it:
When you tested the depth, using the SI transducer,
have you visually looked at the mounting of that transducer
to be sure it is tight in the mount?
With your boat fully loaded at normal operating weight (cargo, gas, people),
the transducer attitude should be more or less flat against the water.

PS:
Before loading those waypoints back into your updated software:
Bring them into Humminbird PC to make sure nothing is corrupted.
Delete any Waypoints with the same names, or missing any of the GPS
coordinate information. If your software was corrupted, this could have
been the cause.

basswacker68 · « **Reply #8 on:** April 23, 2014, 12:30:19 PM »

ITGEEK,
I have looked over the SI transducer. It appears to be fine and in the correct position. When i plug the SI transducer in, I have the side to side coverage.
What goes to pot is the Down Image and the "Traditional Sonar" from the duel beam transducer.
That is what I was trying show in the first picture I posted with the three views.

I have all my waypoints in the HB software. I'll formate the sd card and reload them back to the card from the software.

Thanks for the advise.

Humminbird_Greg · « **Reply #9 on:** April 23, 2014, 02:09:36 PM »

Just to be sure it is nothing around the boat slip, please test it outside of the boat slip. We used to get some strange looking sonar readings when you looked at the sonar when in our boat house.

basswacker68 · « **Reply #10 on:** April 23, 2014, 02:57:26 PM »

Greg,

I took the boat out in the middle of the cove and drifted around when i did the testing.
I had left my phone on the dock so the picture i took was when i was tied next to the dock.
So what the last picture shows is next to the dock but looked the same out in the cove which is 10'+.

Thanks

Humminbird_Greg · « **Reply #11 on:** April 23, 2014, 03:44:20 PM »

I was afraid of that. I'm thinking the problem is in the unit itself and not the transducers.

basswacker68 · « **Reply #12 on:** April 23, 2014, 03:53:57 PM »

Greg,
I'm agreeing that it seems like the unit.
I trying to get in touch with a friend that has an 1197 on his boat. He is out of town quite a bit and it may be hit or miss on getting to test my machine on his boat.
Right now i have a gps/map and side image that work. I have a tourney next weekend. After that I will get in touch with HB on getting the unit serviced unless i find someone and i can put this on their boat and prove the machine is operating properly.

Humminbird_Greg · « **Reply #13 on:** April 23, 2014, 03:58:31 PM »

Good plan basswacker. Don’t limit yourself to finding another 1197 owner as most of the (non-DI model) units we have produced all use the same 200/83kHz 2D sonar in their transducers and will work for this test.

sonar2000 · « **Reply #14 on:** April 23, 2014, 06:56:16 PM »

am wondering if the 1197 is starting to get old. In the past week I have seen 3 1197's with various issues. Most problems seem related to internal code or component function (or misfunction) and not power or connections issues. System hangs, screen shutdowns, GPS connected but no related position or map data. Scans pausing and then continuing, to list a few. All are 1197's over 5 years old.
Greg, do you guys have parts any more for the 1197 in case of a internal failure? I have heard that the legacy 1197 is not a repair supported device any longer with limited parts if any at all..
Chuck

basswacker68 · « **Reply #15 on:** April 23, 2014, 11:07:16 PM »

How can I get 6.31? Spent an hour on the HB website and in my account and still can't find any older versions of software. Only FAQ's.
I've done the formatting IG suggested in the earlier post but can't get the version of the software suggested.

As far as no longer supporting the 1197. I've had this unit three years in March. After investing 3K in a machine, they should support it forever!

newkid4si · « **Reply #16 on:** April 23, 2014, 11:42:39 PM »

I think I found it in the downloads section. Second entry.

http://forums.sideimagingsoft.com/index.php?action=downloads;cat=3

Mike

basswacker68 · « **Reply #17 on:** April 24, 2014, 08:40:48 AM »

NewKid,
Thanks for the link. I got it downloaded.

4d-rock · « **Reply #18 on:** April 24, 2014, 10:10:59 AM »

Quote from: basswacker68 on April 23, 2014, 11:07:16 PM

How can I get 6.31? Spent an hour on the HB website and in my account and still can't find any older versions of software. Only FAQ's.
I've done the formatting IG suggested in the earlier post but can't get the version of the software suggested.

As far as no longer supporting the 1197. I've had this unit three years in March. After investing 3K in a machine, they should support it forever!

Totally agree with you Basswacker. Though I may not have invested as much and only have a 997, but the sentiment is the same. I realize there comes a point where you cannot continue to develop or support a product, but you don't usually get to that point until much longer since the product was introduced, or if the product line has vastly changed.

Humminbird_Greg · « **Reply #19 on:** April 24, 2014, 12:25:28 PM »

Quote from: sonar2000 on April 23, 2014, 06:56:16 PM

am wondering if the 1197 is starting to get old. In the past week I have seen 3 1197's with various issues. Most problems seem related to internal code or component function (or misfunction) and not power or connections issues. System hangs, screen shutdowns, GPS connected but no related position or map data. Scans pausing and then continuing, to list a few. All are 1197's over 5 years old.
Greg, do you guys have parts any more for the 1197 in case of a internal failure? I have heard that the legacy 1197 is not a repair supported device any longer with limited parts if any at all..
Chuck

We do have parts for the 1197 units Chuck. I just checked with the Supervisor over the Service center on this to make sure. Not sure where you heard that from. At some point in the future we won't as we will run out but no one can predict when that will be.

Humminbird_Greg · « **Reply #20 on:** April 24, 2014, 12:32:09 PM »

The problem with electronics and especially displays, is that they do change and do so continually. The display that you bought last year may not even be made this year and the same is true for other electrical components. That means you have to redesign your product which sometimes means a new model. So it’s hard to keep an endless stock of replacement parts for any of the units we make. At some point we cannot offer servicing for each product but we try to service and support them for as long as we can.

sonar2000 · « **Reply #21 on:** April 24, 2014, 01:03:35 PM »

Greg, the reference to the availability of parts for the legacy was made last year and came from HB. while products do die a death over time it seems that the 1197 is dying faster in the changing world of technology. In fact mode IT products ( and to some extent) most things we buy today are made for a couple of years and them we move to the new. Cell phones, TV's and even seeing cars having this same evolution.
Business and customers are not of the old relationship as it used to be. Products are made to sell now and buy again later.
But you and I are not in charge of business decisions. Unfortunately we do live in a new world with changing "how to make money" idea my those who reap the end result and that is the dollar.

All I am saying here is that we wont own sonar units in this price range for long times within our usage. We have become the way of any computer based product. Cell phone, computer, cameras, what ever it may be.
Part of the 1197 issues is if it were to be sent for repair, you may not have the part any longer.
Way of life. I am sure if you can fix you will but at what cost compared to purchasing new. Repair is not cheap any longer.

We probably need to think more short term on purchases as it relates to budget.

Chuck

Bob B · « **Reply #22 on:** April 24, 2014, 02:59:39 PM »

I do think Humminbird does a lot better job of supporting legacy products than most companies. Especially with software updates............I agree that such a large investment is a big deal to most of us......I have an 1197 also and was pretty disappointed when I found out it won't support the 360......
It would be nice if Humminbird would offer some sort of "trade in" deal on the legacy products.

sonar2000 · « **Reply #23 on:** April 24, 2014, 04:16:21 PM »

Bob, I think a lot of us would "feel better" if we could take older units and have some tradein value. However, what will the company do with the old tradein's. I guess they don't want them either. As I stated earlier, I am guess we are going to the new technology age with items that will not last as long as previous products.
New code for the 1197. I don't see this happening. HB has put it out to pasture and now waits for the final gasp of breath and then sell a newer model. Remember thought it is not only HB doing this...
Chuck

Bob B · « **Reply #24 on:** April 24, 2014, 04:29:59 PM »

Chuck....I think "the other guys" don't support products as long....but do offer a "trade-up" price.

Kind of like the customer loyalty discount some auto companies offer.

ITGEEK · « **Reply #25 on:** April 24, 2014, 06:05:27 PM »

I've said this once, and I'll say it again:
Humminbird should build their systems so that you can snap out old parts
and snap in new ones.
For instance the screen. If a new screen comes out, and you want to upgrade,
buy the new one, snap out the old one and snap in the new one.
If you want a faster processor, buy it, snap out the old one and snap in the new one.

Of course there comes a time when you can't upgrade your current model
anymore because the technology has moved too far past it.
But, Humminbird would keep many customers happy and loyal for a long time, and
they would still make a profit.

When it was time for me to upgrade from my 1197, it really pissed me off that the new 1199 didn't support XM weather.
If Lowrance would have had anything close to the 360, I would have
jumped ship in a heartbeat and never looked back.
The 360 is the only reason I bought an 1198 and stayed with Humminbird.

My take on Humminbird is that they strive to come out with something new to stay ahead of the competition. They push the new stuff hard for a couple of years, then totally abandone it,
and try to go on to the next new thing.
Why hasn't a second generation, new and improved version of the 360 come out?
And, I'm not talking about just changing the mount so that it fits on the bow.
Because now they have the ONIX, and they'll push that hard for a few years.
I predict the 360 will wither away into oblivion in about two years, and it won't be supported
with any newer models after the ONIX series.

Technology is great, but if your customers want to upgrade their units, don't take
away accessories they've grown accustomed to using.

Bob B · « **Reply #26 on:** April 24, 2014, 07:16:05 PM »

Maybe send in an 1197 and turn it in to a 1199

basswacker68 · « **Reply #27 on:** April 24, 2014, 07:32:17 PM »

I'm going to reload the software and test it this weekend. If the software reloads don't solve the problem, I'm going to contact HB Customer Service and begin the process of getting this unit back to them for repairs.

If it can't be repaired, I guess I'll have an oversized gps map. No way will I spend another several thousand to buy a machine which will be outdated in a couple years.

Bob B · « **Reply #28 on:** April 24, 2014, 07:41:42 PM »

The thread went awry for a while, but from what Greg says.....They should be able to fix it for you.

basswacker68 · « **Reply #29 on:** April 29, 2014, 09:05:16 AM »

Here are a few shots of the screen from this past weekend. I did the format of nav directories, reset to factory settings, removed all waypoints, formatted the SD disc, etc. Reloaded 6.31 software version.
The down image is showing 7.5' and the display is 1.6'.
The picture of the regular sonar shows the bottom but it's the top part of the screen which is returning the bad signal.
When I set the max depth to 25, it appears the bottom is being show but a gain the problem is with the top.
When the machine is in "auto depth" it looks as if it don't read beyond the 1.6'.

I've contacted HB Customer Service and have discussed returning the unit after this weekend. They have quoted me a price to fix or replace the unit.
I'll update this fourm when i have any further information.

Thanks for everyones suggestions and comments.

David

ITGEEK · « **Reply #30 on:** April 29, 2014, 10:00:35 AM »

Before you send the unit in, one last question:
Have you tried adjusting your 2D sensitivity?

Eight feet of depth is shallow for testing. If you have the sensitivity set way up,
then you could get multiple bouncing of the sonar signals.

Try starting with the sensitivity at the very lowest setting, then gradually increase it.

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