Author Topic: 898 si - External GPS Antenna Issues (Read 48240 times)

9dollar · « **on:** April 09, 2013, 09:11:40 PM »

Hi all,

Long time reader, first time poster

I have a US model 898 si running 5.7 software. Great unit so far however after owning the unit for a few months I lost my GPS signal one day, in fact the status screen showed GPS as not connected.

I tried some troubleshooting, checked pins etc for connection but no joy. I tracked down a friends spare GPS antenna (GR50 Puck style) and this worked fine on my unit. I put it down to a faulty GPS antenna and just ordered a replacment.

6 months down the track I'm having a similar issue with the new antenna, all of a sudden the unit loses GPS reading. At times the anetenna says it's connected but every now and then it will flash up as disconnected (No GPS Signal). In some cases if this flashes on and off enough times the whole unit will shut down (IE: Screen reads "Shutting down" and restarts)

I did some testing and noticed that the issue was more evident when I wiggled the GPS cable so I'm thinking I may have a broken wire or something, normally the cable is coiled up and cabled tied out of harms way but on this trip is came loose and was wacking around a little inside the bulkhead of my dash.

Firstly, is the cable delicate enough to be damaged in this manner, this is my second GR50 puck so I'm thinking am I doing something wrong ? Or is this a known issue?

Secondly if it is the cable could I just cut and splice / heatshrink out the bad section ? Any idea how the cable is put together before I make the cut ?

Final option is to buy another puck and hope for the best but any information would be appreciated !

Cheers
Marty.

RGecy · « **Reply #1 on:** April 09, 2013, 09:35:29 PM »

I would try and push the pins out a little to increase the connection. The HB connectors are notorious for bad connections over time and hope they change them in the future. The power connector is the worst!

I really doubt its the wiring unless you have snagged it somewhere. Sounds like the bouncing around may be the culprit and is causing the connectors to jiggle a little! I had this problem on my unit. It would shut off when I hit a big wave or wake.

Good Luck.

Robert

9dollar · « **Reply #2 on:** April 09, 2013, 09:39:16 PM »

I'll double check that but it seems that if I grab a particular length of wire and wiggle it the GPS problem raises it's head. The connector is secured fairly well to the head unit, I've even taped it down before adding the locking cover to ensure it doesn't move.

Seems like the cable itself is damaged although there are no visible signs of damage to the exterior of it.

RGecy · « **Reply #3 on:** April 09, 2013, 09:44:36 PM »

Its worth a shot. You COULD have a bad wire if what you say is true. Its definitely not hard to splice!

Robert

deerhuntenfool · « **Reply #4 on:** June 15, 2013, 01:14:03 PM »

I'm not usually a forum participant, but your post on the GPS issue struck home. For 2 years I have been having the same issues as you are with the random loss of the GPS and shutdowns. I have spent many hours with my boat dealer trying to figure this one out. Had to send my 898si back to HB and they kept it for over a month. They sent it back and said nothing was wrong. My dealer said they checked it out on my boat and the problem was still occurring.

It wasn't until I finally became tired of this, took out my wire cutters and removed all of the tie wraps to free up all of the cables below the dash. After I did this I started the unit and had GPS signal. I ran the boat and never lost the GPS or had a shutdown. With all of the cables hanging loose under the dash, I went back under the dash, isolated each cable and secured each individually. I tried to secure each line under the dash so they would not loosely swing around while under way. Ran the boat again and the problem came back. I went back under the dash to released the GPS cable and the signal came back. Have operated this way since April without a GPS issue.

I believe this cable is the problem, but can't say exactly what. I don't like cabling loosely hanging below the dash, but securing it causes the problem. I wish HB will realize there is an issue here and do something about it. I can't believe that we are the only two that have experienced this.

Humminbird_Greg · « **Reply #5 on:** June 18, 2013, 01:39:09 PM »

Is the problem you have that there is in fact a problem in the cable of your GPS Receiver or is it that this puts tension on the connector and does not allow it to remain fully plugged in?

If it is the cable than all you would have to do is replace the GPS Receiver and the problem should go away.

deerhuntenfool · « **Reply #6 on:** June 18, 2013, 06:55:55 PM »

I believe the cable itself is the problem. My antenna sits on the dash, the cable goes thru the dash and then back out the front to the unit. The cables from the transducers and the GPS cable run to the connector plate that plugs into the back of the unit and held in place by a thumb screw.

I don't see how there is any way that the plug-in can work loose and have not had any issues with the other cables. The only way I have been able to get the GPS to work is to release the extra gps cable and let it swing freely and loosely under the dash. Which, I don't understand why, but it works in rough water and running wide open, which it never would do when the cable was securely bundled and held in place with enough slack to fit the unit location.

I have to believe that coiling the extra GPS cable in a bundle is the cause of my problem. Does HB have a short GPS cable? All I need is 3-feet.

Humminbird_Greg · « **Reply #7 on:** June 19, 2013, 01:01:25 PM »

No, the 20 foot cable is all that we have. if you knew where the problem is you could cut out the bad area and splice the wires back together. Otherwise you would need to get the GPS Receiver replaced (the cable is epoxied to the lower GPS housing). If you crimped the wires at a sharp angle or somehow smashed the cable, this could have damaged the internal wiring and caused this problem.

deerhuntenfool · « **Reply #8 on:** June 19, 2013, 01:43:12 PM »

I don't believe the cable is damaged. If it was then hanging loose and subject to being swung around under the dash would cause the damage to the cable to interrupt the signal. This doesn't happen. It is only when the cable is bundled and secured under the dash that the issue occurred .

Can the coiled cable create an electrical interference or an electromagnetic field that adversely effects the GPS signal causing the unit to loose the GPS service and/or the unit to shutdown? This happens with other communication cables.

I have had this problem since the unit was installed. The obvious possible problems have been explored and told there is nothing wrong. My dealer has taken my boat out and verified the unit malfunction. There is something wrong here and all the obvious opinions have been explored. HB needs to explore the not-so-obvious and come up with a solution.

Humminbird_Greg · « **Reply #9 on:** June 19, 2013, 01:54:42 PM »

We have had no reports of the GPS Receivers or their cables causing any type of RF interference. If they did, than counter-coiling (wrap the cable is a figure 8 and fold it over on itself) them would alleviate this.

We have had reports of other electronic devices interfering with our equipment but I don’t remember anything besides a VHF radio causing interference with the GPS. Do you have a VHF radio installed anywhere near where the GPS wires were coiled?

deerhuntenfool · « **Reply #10 on:** June 19, 2013, 02:09:37 PM »

No VHF radio.

Humminbird_Greg · « **Reply #11 on:** June 19, 2013, 04:45:23 PM »

Than unless the bundling and securing of the cable is somehow putting mechanical stress on the wiring, I don’t know what could be causing it. Still to fix it would require the GPS Receiver to be replaced.

deerhuntenfool · « **Reply #12 on:** June 19, 2013, 04:53:29 PM »

As I have had issues with this since first purchased, will HB provided the new GPS Receiver as a warranty item. I will gladly return the original one so it can be studied.

EZM · « **Reply #13 on:** June 19, 2013, 08:09:35 PM »

Just a thought .......... from a former job where we had a piece of equipment with a similar issue.

Although we had insulated cables on all of the wiring but had an issue with one particular line (device) - we found that isolating the wire that was causing the issue - like in your case keeping it away from the rest of the wires eliminated the problem.

I think your theory might be a good one - interference when the proximity to other cables is near or touching your device cable. we ended up sleeving the wire with additional insulation to finally solve the problem and allow the wiring harness to remain bundled. problem solved.

Humminbird_Greg · « **Reply #14 on:** June 20, 2013, 11:33:50 AM »

You would have to check with the Customer Resource folks about that. If they have a communication record of the problem still occurring after the unit was sent back to you then I would guess that they would be more willing to do so.

deerhuntenfool · « **Reply #15 on:** June 20, 2013, 04:20:31 PM »

One more question, is the GPS receiver cable a shielded cable?

Humminbird_Greg · « **Reply #16 on:** June 21, 2013, 11:07:59 AM »

Yes, it should have a foil shield.

deerhuntenfool · « **Reply #17 on:** June 21, 2013, 04:39:22 PM »

How can I tell for certain?

Humminbird_Greg · « **Reply #18 on:** June 22, 2013, 10:39:42 AM »

I guess that you would have to cut the cable to be certain but that would void the warranty. I looked on the engineering drawing for the cable that we use with all of our GPS Receivers and it stated that it has a foil shield. This is the only cable that we use and the only one with that particular grommet on it that gets epoxied in place in the lower housing of the GPS Receiver. It is also the only one that has that particular connector with its pins populated that way and with the short ‘pigtail’ NMEA wire. There would be no way to mix it up with another cable here at the manufacturing plant.

deerhuntenfool · « **Reply #19 on:** July 07, 2013, 03:37:08 PM »

OK, ran the unit over the 4th of July weekend and the problem continues. I secured the loose cable in a shielded enclosure that left approx. 2 feet of cable exposed outside the enclosure.

The issue did not improve. Random loss of GPS signal and several shutdowns continued over the five days of use. When signal loss occurred light movement of the cable from the receiver with the hand brought the signal back. At other times the "No GPS signal" would flash at random across the screen but continued to operate.

This is very frustrating and have lost confidence in Hummingbird quality and concern for its customers.

I searched the online store for a replacement GPS receiver for my unit, 898c si, and it does not list any. I paid what I believe is a lot of money for this accessory on my boat and not to have it work properly is upsetting. And finding that others experience the same issues should speak columns about Hummingbird quality.

I ask one final time, please help me get my 898c si to work properly

Humminbird_Greg · « **Reply #20 on:** July 09, 2013, 01:36:34 PM »

I still think that you should contact the Humminbird Customer Resource folks about this and see about getting the GPS Receiver replaced.

The AS-GRP is the GPS Receiver that we are currently packaging with the 898c Si units that we make.
http://store.humminbird.com/products/629926/AS_GRP
If your 898c Si unit is two years old than it probably came with the AS-GR50 GPS Receiver which we no longer make. It was replaced with the AS-GRP GPS Receiver.

deerhuntenfool · « **Reply #21 on:** July 12, 2013, 11:29:31 PM »

I took your suggestion and contacted the Humminbird Customer Resource Dept. After several exchanges of information they approved replacement of my GPS receiver. I was happy to work this out to this point.

However, They are replacing my original receiver with an AS GRC 16 and not the receiver currently being paired with the 800 series. I looked this up on the Humminbird store website and this receiver is not listed for use on my depth finder. Should I be concerned with putting the GRC 16 on my depth finder?

Humminbird_Greg · « **Reply #22 on:** July 16, 2013, 10:34:20 AM »

No, the current version of the GR16 GPS Receiver is very comparable to the GR50 that you had. We do not make the GR50 anymore and using the newer GRP would possibly require your unit to have a software update.

deerhuntenfool · « **Reply #23 on:** July 27, 2013, 09:16:08 PM »

Received and installed the new receiver, AS GPR 16, and "no service" message pops up. Went to HB website for software update but cannot find what is needed? Can you help?

Humminbird_Greg · « **Reply #24 on:** July 29, 2013, 01:13:41 PM »

I do not know what the “No Service” message indicates as I’ve not heard of it before. Did the unit start showing your location?
What software version are you running in your 898 unit?

Tyee Hunter · « **Reply #25 on:** August 24, 2013, 10:32:09 PM »

Bought an 898c HD SI this summer and have seen this issue also.
It happens intermittently and I have to power the unit down and back on again
after which the gps connection seems to be fine again.
Still working with HB to try to fix my i-Pilot Link issues that have been a problem from the start.

"Would rather be fishing than trying to troubleshoot problems with my new Humminbird unit."

chjohn · « **Reply #26 on:** September 22, 2013, 04:35:50 PM »

Hi, new user here. I do not have a side imaging unit, I have a new 858c HD Combo but I am having the same problems with loosing GPS position fix and unit restarting. I have sent the unit back to Humminbird and they say it works fine. I also have my cable coiled up under my center console, I will also get my wire cutters out and cut the tie wraps and let the cord hang loose. Wish me luck and I will let you know what I find out. Thank you for the information in this thread.

CJ

rnvinc · « **Reply #27 on:** September 29, 2013, 12:24:42 AM »

Quote from: chjohn on September 22, 2013, 04:35:50 PM

Hi, new user here. I do not have a side imaging unit, I have a new 858c HD Combo but I am having the same problems with loosing GPS position fix and unit restarting. I have sent the unit back to Humminbird and they say it works fine. I also have my cable coiled up under my center console, I will also get my wire cutters out and cut the tie wraps and let the cord hang loose. Wish me luck and I will let you know what I find out. Thank you for the information in this thread.

CJ

If you still have problems....you might start a new thread with your issue...

Sometimes new issues brought up this far down in a thread tend to not get the same attention a dedicated thread would with your issue..

Hopefully your issue will be solved be removing the tie wraps...but we're here if you need...

Rickie

chjohn · « **Reply #28 on:** September 29, 2013, 11:36:19 AM »

Thank you,

I have found my problem and corrected it. On the cable from the GPS antenna there is a NMEA pigtail with a rubber cap at the end, I removed the cap and found the wires inside touching each other. I separated the wires and that fixed my problems.

CJ

sonarbear · « **Reply #29 on:** May 03, 2016, 04:48:26 PM »

Sorry for tomb raiding, but I think I can add to the topic. I had a similar issue and it was really the GPS reception. Indoors the GPS will not show connected on my 898 until it did see satellites. Then it displayed a 3D fix and connected.

chrisfisher · « **Reply #30 on:** June 15, 2016, 11:11:40 PM »

Not sure if this will help anyone. I've had noticed one common issue with this External GPS Puck! Its the darn plug that I think sort of sucks! Always seems to be the ground wire.. just push it down! (seems to wiggle loose) add a bit of non conductive glue! something to hold em down seems to do the trick. It is nice seeing the GPS: "Connected" in the diagnostics! Have fixed this on few units already!

fshndude · « **Reply #31 on:** June 16, 2016, 12:01:15 PM »

As I am in the automotive business, working on vehicles the wiring has went from 18 gauge to 22 gauge. Terminals are even smaller. To help what we call "FRETTING" apply a good dielectric grease to all of your connections. I have been doing this for years on all of my boat electrical connections. Just a thought but I like the pic of the circuit board and how to repair it.

peterv6i · « **Reply #32 on:** January 03, 2020, 04:16:44 AM »

huh have the same problem with the GPS antenna receiver.
So I decided to investigate what is going on.. My 998 unit is showing that GPS is not connected to it. First have cleaned all the contacts and this was not the reason.
After that, I have opened the GPS antenna and notice that a water/humidity is present inside the case. The main 4 pin connector was totally green (corroded) and also some parts on the printed circuit.
The printed circuit is not even sealed with the epoxy lack

.
My steps were this:
1.) first I have disconnected the connector from the PCB
2.) With a brush and cleaning spray (electronic cleaning solvent) have cleaned the PCB
3.) The next thing that have noticed was the corrosion under the capacitor on the left side of the connector. After a while have replaced the capacitor with the new one
4.) Also, some pins on the ublox module (GPS receiver) were corroded. (cleaned them)
5.) After all this operation I have connected the 10V DC to the power pins and measured voltage on the board.
6.) To test if the ublox module works have connected the pico oscilloscope to the RX/TX pins and notice that the chip is sending data.
7.) Because I was somehow sceptic if the 4 pin connector is ok, have also replaced the 4 pin connector on the PCB
8.) The antenna is now working
9.) After the operation have sealed the PCB board with the (Servisol - plastic seal 60) spray (protective insulator)

that's all

corroded PCB and elements on it

(crap)

the capacitor was replaced:

some elements trough the microscope

testing the output of the ublox module

Ublox module specifications:
https://d1.amobbs.com/bbs_upload782111/files_33/ourdev_581165TSVA0S.pdf

rnvinc · « **Reply #33 on:** January 03, 2020, 08:54:00 PM »

That’s some serious troubleshooting ...

Rickie

peterv6i · « **Reply #34 on:** January 04, 2020, 03:46:37 AM »

The problem is that the PCB is not coated with protective lack (epoxy)... And the seal under the antenna cap is not enough to prevent humidity to enter into the case.

Anyway, this antenna is a simple GPS module from ublox (it send the NMEA GPS data on the serial port to the Humminbird unit).

peterv6i · « **Reply #35 on:** November 23, 2020, 06:06:56 AM »

It seems that something was also in the short circuit.. Now I don't have +12V on the connector for the GPS antenna.. arghh..

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Author Topic: 898 si - External GPS Antenna Issues (Read 48240 times)

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