Topic: YATMQ - rookie looking for advice on trancducer mounting with pictures...

[leeland]

Hello All,

First I want to say thanks for a forum like this...I have learned a lot from reading posts and got my first fishing boat a couple of weeks ago, Google led me here and I eventually purchased a 898c which I received yesterday.

I have never installed or used a fish finder like this so I am really green.  I am looking for advice on where to place the transducer on my boat.  It is a 1998 Sylvan 1600 explorer.  There is only a speed -(dometer) right now.

I was planning on getting a transom mounting block (14 inch variety) to then mount the transducer there.

From the photo can anyone give me a general recommendation on which side to go on?  Anything that might be a pitfall/something to avoid?

From the photo...the rollers are about 15 inches from the dead center of the main motor mount...my initial thought was to place it "outside" of the rollers on either side.

Thanks in advance,

Lee

[Roddy]

Leeland, Welcome. Just outboard of the rollers looks good.

Enjoy Roddy

[ITGEEK]

I agree.
That area looks good.

[leeland]

Thanks guys for the replies...

A couple of other questions I was curious about...


should I be worried about that speedometer causing an issue with SI (blocking the signal)? 

When I mount the transducer the bottom of that transducer should be 1/8th of an inch below the bottom of the boat correct?

When capturing video / pictures...does anyone capture video...then download it into the ole PC to review?  Kind of like watching game tape?  If so what format are the captured videos in?

I am trying to get this all assembled and working in the next couple of days as I am leaving for a fishing trip and would LOVE to be able to have the 898c up and running.

I have to admit..once I opened that box and saw all the pieces I buckled a little in the knees


Thanks again for the info...

Lee

[ITGEEK]

should I be worried about that speedometer causing an issue with SI (blocking the signal)? :

Before mounting your transducer, look left and right of where it will be
mounted.  It needs a clear line of sight both ways for the SI to work correctly.
If you can see something in the way, it will also be in the way of the SI.

When I mount the transducer the bottom of that transducer should be 1/8th of an inch below the bottom of the boat correct?

Follow the directions in your owners manual.
Don't assume the first place you mount it will be the permanent spot.  It may take a few times
out on the water to tweak it.  Also, if you are one of the guys that likes to go fast and still have
a useable transducer, you may lose your depth reading at speed.  Very few people mount the
transducer perfect the first time.  Every boat and user is different.

When capturing video / pictures...does anyone capture video...then download it into the ole PC to review?  Kind of like watching game tape?  If so what format are the captured videos in?

People do this all the time.  I don't know what format the recordings are in, but with the free software, Humviewer, you can look at them on your PC.
This is the Humviewer software link on this site:
http://forums.sideimagingsoft.com/index.php?topic=172.0

I would not rush into installing your unit for an upcoming fishing trip.  It's going to take
some time for the installation, and you will need several hours of experience on the
water to get the best out of your unit.  Not to even mention, the possible interference issues
you might have.  Maybe shoot for the next fishing trip to fully utilize the unit.

Good Luck.

[leeland]

I would not rush into installing your unit for an upcoming fishing trip.  It's going to take
some time for the installation, and you will need several hours of experience on the
water to get the best out of your unit.  Not to even mention, the possible interference issues
you might have.  Maybe shoot for the next fishing trip to fully utilize the unit.

Good Luck.

I should clarify my statement a little...

I was hoping to get the transducer mounted and the unit up and running so I could evaluate it while on the water during the trip...I didn't envision jumping right in and catching fish right away .

I had envisioned that it might take some readjustments regarding the install of the transducer which is why I am picking up a transom transducer plate this afternoon during lunch to hopefully help with any adjustments...

From the posts I have read about installing the transducer people generally have obstructions to work around (kickers, motor mounts, etc...)

The back of my boat seems fairly 'flat' in that from dead center middle out to the edges there isn't much rise so that speedometer gauge might give me issues... 

To avoid any issues with install and that speedometer, my first thought was to remove that speedometer gauge, get some of the recommended marine sealant, seal the holes back up with the screws that were used...

Then install that transom mount on the outer edge of the rollers on the right side.

Then install the Humminbird transducer first and the speedometer on the farthest edge away from the transducer trying to make sure that it doesn't interfere with the visibility of the transducer.

Does that logic seem ok?


In regards to 'fine tuning' the position of the transducer (up/down) and (left/right)...once I have the initial install complete and it is functioning... is there anything you would recommend doing / verifying to say "Yah...this seems like I did the install right" vs. "Nope, looks like I got to move it left / right / up / down a hair".

I would presume that if the images are clear and the measurements aren't erratic that would be a good sign

[Roddy]

Leeland, Let's make life EZ,  :)mount the transducer on the Port side outside of the rollers about 3"!!

Just my felling.

Roddy

[ITGEEK]

I would install the HB transducer as the lowest thing on my
transom.  That way, it will have a clear line of sight.
Also, remember, you want at least 15" away from the motor.
With gps, you really don't need that speed sensor.

If you're going to use that speed sensor, I'd mount it where it
has got good water flow (to work properly), and was above the HB transducer.
Sealing the old holes with marine sealant (maybe 5200), and using the screws sounds OK.
You may not even need to use the screws.
Be aware that it's going to take some time for the sealant to dry.

I think if you were going to do any transducer tweaking, it would be to
tweak it up or down, rather than side-to-side.
The transducer should be more or less level with your boat fully loaded and in
the water.

If the images look good, then your install may be OK.
But, under speed, you may lose your depth.
You may be able to lower the transducer a little to compensate.
Too low and it could hit an object.
There are usually lots of complaints about image quality,
and losing depth under speed.

There's probably a transducer sweet spot on all boats.

As I said before, you haven't even addressed the problem of interference yet.
It may or may not be a problem on your boat.
If you have everything hooked to one battery, then it will most likely will be
a problem.
If your sonar shares a battery with a trolling motor or a main motor, then
it will most likely be a problem.

You'll have to see how it looks when on the water.

[leeland]

Leeland, Let's make life EZ,  :)mount the transducer on the Port side outside of the rollers about 3"!!

Just my felling.

Roddy

Can't get more direct than that


Thanks for the recommendation...

Out of curiosity...is the reason you recommended the port side because the prop rotates clock-wise and thus having the transducer on the left would reduce the amount of turbulent water to that side when moving 'forward'?


Thanks again!

Lee

[leeland]

I would install the HB transducer as the lowest thing on my
transom.  That way, it will have a clear line of sight.
Also, remember, you want at least 15" away from the motor.
With gps, you really don't need that speed sensor.

If you're going to use that speed sensor, I'd mount it where it
has got good water flow (to work properly), and was above the HB transducer.
Sealing the old holes with marine sealant (maybe 5200), and using the screws sounds OK.
You may not even need to use the screws.
Be aware that it's going to take some time for the sealant to dry.

I think if you were going to do any transducer tweaking, it would be to
tweak it up or down, rather than side-to-side.
The transducer should be more or less level with your boat fully loaded and in
the water.

If the images look good, then your install may be OK.
But, under speed, you may lose your depth.
You may be able to lower the transducer a little to compensate.
Too low and it could hit an object.
There are usually lots of complaints about image quality,
and losing depth under speed.

There's probably a transducer sweet spot on all boats.

As I said before, you haven't even addressed the problem of interference yet.
It may or may not be a problem on your boat.
If you have everything hooked to one battery, then it will most likely will be
a problem.
If your sonar shares a battery with a trolling motor or a main motor, then
it will most likely be a problem.

You'll have to see how it looks when on the water.

Makes complete sense...the old GPS unit that was installed on boat ran from the electrical under the console...like you said, I will have to see how it reacts when running.

The boat does have two batteries...the main for the motor and one for the trolling motor.

Is it common to have just a battery set up to run the electronics?  Or a way to wire one of the two batteries to minimize the potential for interference?


Thanks again, sorry in advance if these are ignorant questions...just want to make sure it is set up correctly...


Lee

[Humminbird_Greg]

Lee,
Installing the HDSi transducer on the port side of the boat would place it farther away from the speed gauge.  This will minimize the amount of Si sonar that it will block.  If you are going to remove the speed gauge than just mount it on the starboard (right) side.  This will keep the transducer wire farther away from the motor and possibly trolling motor battery which will lessen the chances of interference.

I did not see any sort of power tilt/trim on your motor.  The HDSi transducer is going to need six inches of clearance between the motor and the transom of your boat (plus whatever the transducer mounting board thickness is) so that the motor does not block any of the Si sonar to that side.  Many just trim up their motor when they use the Si sonar, but it does not look like you may have that option.

Connect your 898c Si unit to the cranking battery by running a new set of at least 16 gauge (14 would be even better but is overkill) multi-stranded copper wire up to where the power cable will be installed.  Don’t forget a new 3 amp fuse and fuse holder (personally I like the newer blade type fuse holders and fuses) and solder and seal ann connections.  This will help minimize power issues for your unit and will ensure that you have good electrical connections.

[ITGEEK]

Very best scenario is to have a small marine battery that only
the sonar is connected to.

If your motor has an alternator, it could cause interference.

You could hook up like Greg said and test it.

[leeland]

Lee,
Installing the HDSi transducer on the port side of the boat would place it farther away from the speed gauge.  This will minimize the amount of Si sonar that it will block.  If you are going to remove the speed gauge than just mount it on the starboard (right) side.  This will keep the transducer wire farther away from the motor and possibly trolling motor battery which will lessen the chances of interference.

I did not see any sort of power tilt/trim on your motor.  The HDSi transducer is going to need six inches of clearance between the motor and the transom of your boat (plus whatever the transducer mounting board thickness is) so that the motor does not block any of the Si sonar to that side.  Many just trim up their motor when they use the Si sonar, but it does not look like you may have that option.

Connect your 898c Si unit to the cranking battery by running a new set of at least 16 gauge (14 would be even better but is overkill) multi-stranded copper wire up to where the power cable will be installed.  Don’t forget a new 3 amp fuse and fuse holder (personally I like the newer blade type fuse holders and fuses) and solder and seal ann connections.  This will help minimize power issues for your unit and will ensure that you have good electrical connections.

Hi Greg,

Thank you for the information...

The boat does have trim/tilt so it shouldn't be a problem maintaining that level of clearance.


As far as I am concerned with the speedometer it can go or stay.  Initially (as I wrote above) I was going to put the mounting bracket on the right side on the outer edge from the rollers, and move the speedometer to the right and above the transducer...

However then I got a recommendation to install the transducer on the left side.

All things being equal...and removing the speedometer, clear line of site both directions, enough clearance from transom to motor, etc...from the equation...which side (left or right) is preferred when you have a motor that spins clockwise?

Thanks for the info on the wiring as well, I reviewed online to get a better picture of what is needed (materials, install) shouldn't be a problem.

Thanks again,

Lee

[Humminbird_Greg]

Unless you are backing up with the motor it does not matter which side of the transom the transducer is on and so it does not matter whether your prop turns clock or anti-clockwise.  The propeller is behind the transducer and air bubbles it produces will also be behind the transducer.  Typically transducers are installed on the right side as that is closer and easier to rig.  A bonus to this is that the cable does not have to go by the motor and therefore is also less susceptible to electrical interference from it.

[leeland]

Unless you are backing up with the motor it does not matter which side of the transom the transducer is on and so it does not matter whether your prop turns clock or anti-clockwise.  The propeller is behind the transducer and air bubbles it produces will also be behind the transducer.  Typically transducers are installed on the right side as that is closer and easier to rig.  A bonus to this is that the cable does not have to go by the motor and therefore is also less susceptible to electrical interference from it.

Great description...

In regards to the wiring, would you say it would be a good or bad idea to run a single set of wires (14 or 16 gauge) to a fuse block under the console and utilize the fuse block for the connection to the Humminbird unit along with say something like a cigarette lighter socket?  I was hoping to keep it as clean as possible under the console while adding room for expansion if I ever wanted to add electronics down the road.

Something similar to this...

http://www.amazon.com/Seachoice-ATO-Fuse-Block-Gang/dp/B0002UEP36/ref=sr_1_80?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1340050795&sr=1-80&keywords=boat+fuse


Thanks again for all the help...I hope this helps someone else too that is a similar situation to me.

[sonar2000]

You are best with a dedicated wire (stranded) and only for the sonar. The less connections the better. The more solid the connection the better. CB, Lighter sockets, glass fuses are good sources of loss of connection..

Chuck

[Humminbird_Greg]

+1 what Chuck said.
Over my years here at Humminbird I have had the opportunity to work on many boats and have seen what I hope were the best and worse case examples of wiring.  I have even worked on a new boat that had an oxidized fuse block – boy was the owner mad about that!  I have leaned that having a committed set of power wires, minimizing the number of connections, making sure that all connections are soldered well and sealed even better are the keys to a long-term worry free setup.  Like many things in life: you either spend the time up front and do it right or you spend more time later fixing it again.

[leeland]

+1 what Chuck said.
Over my years here at Humminbird I have had the opportunity to work on many boats and have seen what I hope were the best and worse case examples of wiring.  I have even worked on a new boat that had an oxidized fuse block – boy was the owner mad about that!  I have leaned that having a committed set of power wires, minimizing the number of connections, making sure that all connections are soldered well and sealed even better are the keys to a long-term worry free setup.  Like many things in life: you either spend the time up front and do it right or you spend more time later fixing it again.

Thank you for the confirmation...

I got the transducer mounted last night...

I see now what you mean that not many people get the placement right the very first time...so many variables to account for it is virtually impossible to anticipate.

Basically I tried to follow the directions to a T as well as whatever pointers I picked up reading posts on this forum.

I wasn't entirely sure how far down the transducer should sit in reference to the angle / shape of the hull.

From what I could grasp reading online...that if you put it too low that it will plow through the water and make a rooster tail...too high and it won't make good contact.

Same for the degree of tilt...that it basically should have a slight drop off from the bottom of the hull so that the water doesn't cavitate.

I removed that speedometer all together...and will ball it up and tuck it away for now.

At lunch today I am going to get the wire (14 or 16 gauge stranded copper wire, o-ring connectors...I have the other materials needed and hopefully I can get that part done tonight and mount the bracket for the fish finder.

By chance do you have any recommendation on puck placement for the GPS?  I had envisioned anchoring it down on the console dash with silicone behind the head unit...

Thanks again for all the information, and quick replies...big help.


Lee

[Humminbird_Greg]

I would place the GPS Receiver as close over the top of your transducer as you can (this helps with more accurate waypoints).  On the back right corner of the gunwale is a fairly popular placement. 

[leeland]

I would place the GPS Receiver as close over the top of your transducer as you can (this helps with more accurate waypoints).  On the back right corner of the gunwale is a fairly popular placement.

Once again, thanks!

[reddog]

Lee,

I think your xducer looks pretty good.

You want the water to "wash" the face of the transducer... not "scrub" it.

Only problem I see is the rivets, and theres not much you can do about them..

[Roddy]

Lee, Get the boat out on the water and take some screen shots and post the pix. Roddy

[sonar2000]

Lee, the GPS position has a bit of error and as such it should not make a lot of difference in location as long as it has a good picture of the sky and is in proximity of the transducer. (10 feet or so..)


chuck

[leeland]

Hot damn...well after horsing around with it for the better part of 5 hours tonight routing wire, the cables, mounting the GPS puck, mounting bracket...I...am...done...

The boat is a complete mess but I got it done, I powered it on, fired right up and I sat in awe...literally...The screen looks so nice.


I mounted the GPS right behind the transducer and it is clear of obstructions...

Lee,

I think your xducer looks pretty good.

You want the water to "wash" the face of the transducer... not "scrub" it.

Only problem I see is the rivets, and theres not much you can do about them..

when you say water wash...are you saying that I should take a wet rag and rub the transducer (after I take the plastic coating off of course).

Lee, Get the boat out on the water and take some screen shots and post the pix. Roddy

I will be picking up a SD card tomorrow hopefully sometime and will definitely take some photos and post when I return from the camping trip...I leave on Thursday.


I just want to thank you all again seriously...I would have been TOTALLY lost if you guys hadn't come to my rescue answering all my questions...I really appreciate it!

Lee

[reddog]

Lee,


I  was referring to the water coming by the transducer as you move across the water in the boat, not actuallly washing the surface with a rag, per se..  But, there is a plastic liner that needs to be removed from the face of the  transducer...

Enjoy..

[leeland]

Lee,


I  was referring to the water coming by the transducer as you move across the water in the boat, not actuallly washing the surface with a rag, per se..  But, there is a plastic liner that needs to be removed from the face of the  transducer...

Enjoy..

Ha...I guess that is what I get for responding to posts at quarter to 1 in the a.m.

I didn't read the statement correctly...makes a little more sense after coffee!  My impression as to how the transducer should be positioned...it should reflect the same pitch of the hull with a slight downward angle...

We will see how it looks in a couple of days...

Thanks again,

Lee

[reddog]

I sent you a PM Lee

Check it out..

[leeland]

Unfortunately I couldn't get any pictures, the SD card I had (an older one) apparently wasn't readable...so once I got on the water and tried to capture some screens it gave an error.

Regardless the unit worked great...I didn't tweak too much settings wise outside of setting some boundary settings, preferences, favorites and colors...

The navigation worked like a charm and was very helpful.

The Side Imaging...that is definitely gonna take some getting used too

the DI...kind of the same with SI...had a hard time making anything out...or understanding what I was looking at...

The switchfire was for me initially the best mode to see what was going on...

the first day I had the boat out I didn't do much with it outside of playing with the settings...

The second day when I was actually trying to fish, it worked awesome and the entire family was catching fish once we located a pocket of them...was a real fun time.

I did have the unit reboot unexpectedly once when I was flipping views...checking the version I believe it was the latest 6.180...which I have seen people post having issues with that version.

One thing I did notice on the SI...there was a consistent narrow fuzzy bar that was on the left side of the image near the middle of the screen (the transducer is on the right).

Changing the trim on the motor didn't seem to matter at all...the ONLY thing that protrudes out a little is the drain plug.

Once I get a new SD card I will attempt to snap some pictures and post the results...

[Humminbird_Greg]

leeland,
Was that fuzzy bar there when the boat was drifting?  If so, than it may be that drain plug causing it.  You can try putting some sort of spacer material between your transducer and the transom to get the transducer farther back so the left Si sonar does not hit the drain plug (or a lower profile drain plug).  If it is only there when under power than it could just be turbulent water flowing off the left side of the boat.  Only thing to do about that is to lower the transducer (which may not be an option).

[leeland]

Hi Greg...the line was dead straight (not wavy)...

It was very narrow and fuzzy like static on the screen and at the top of the 'water line'.

It didn't seem to affect the picture quality at all, the rest appeared to be pretty decent...

My initial thought was going to be to put the drain plug in backwards (from the inside) if that is feasible...and see if the line continues to be there...

[sonar2000]

the transduce has a small upward beam at the surface. Combined with a slightly tilt left/right installation you may see boat reflection or surface reflection. check you mount very carefully..

Chuck