Author Topic: Transducer suffering (Read 16783 times)

inshorecatch · « **on:** May 14, 2012, 03:19:45 PM »

I have the 797c2si and for the past year I have been unable to get the left side to work. Just quit one day. There is no damage to the transducer. have redone the software and everthing seems to be fine but the left side. Out of warranty and spending almost 200 is not an option. May just have to use only the right side and open it as far as I can. hate that but dont know what else to do. any ideas?

Moose1am · « **Reply #1 on:** May 14, 2012, 03:43:49 PM »

Which transducer does that unit use?
I have the 898 cSI unit and the left side of my unit has a problem more so than the right side. I'm wondering why. You are not the only one with a left side problem. Is your transducer mounted on the starboard side of the boat and to the right of the prop? Looking at the boat from behind and looking forward. Right side?

inshorecatch · « **Reply #2 on:** May 14, 2012, 05:13:57 PM »

XNT 9 SI 180 T my transducer and yes it is in the same position, however I can pole the boat pretty fast with the motor out of the water and still no left side.

Double Digit · « **Reply #3 on:** May 15, 2012, 01:45:51 PM »

My left side always gave me more problems then the right side ever did...I hear this alot not sure why but something is goin on...

Moose1am · « **Reply #4 on:** May 16, 2012, 12:32:54 PM »

Thanks for reminding me about this. I'm getting ready to take the boat out and almost forget to get a pole and the the other metal bracket for my transducer. I'm going to make a long pole and attach my tranducer onto it so that I can stick it deep in the water and then see how my image changes. I've got a bracket that came with my 898 that I have not used at all. I already had the same bracket mounted on my boat. It was for the Humminbird LCR 8000 model which I still have on my boat BTW. These two humminbird depth finders use the very same metal bracket and have been using this metal bracket since 1986. Some things just don't change over time. Metal lasts a lot longer than plastic.

Humminbird_Greg · « **Reply #5 on:** May 17, 2012, 04:32:59 PM »

Quote from: inshorecatch on May 14, 2012, 05:13:57 PM

XNT 9 SI 180 T my transducer and yes it is in the same position, however I can pole the boat pretty fast with the motor out of the water and still no left side.

inshorecatch,
If the left Si is not working than there are only two possibilities here:
#1 the left Si sonar in your transducer has gone out. Install a new XNT-9-Si-180-T transducer to fix this.
#2 the left Si sonar in your unit went out. You would have to send your 797c2 Si unit into Humminbird to be serviced to fix this.

Confirm where the problem is (transducer or unit) by testing your 797c2 Si unit on someone else’s boat that has a Humminbird Si unit. Any model will do for the test but make sure and connect only the power cable and transducer up or you could damage the circuitry that powers the GPS Receiver in your 797c2 Si unit. Alternately you could test their Humminbird unit on your boat/transducer.

Humminbird_Greg · « **Reply #6 on:** May 17, 2012, 04:35:30 PM »

Quote from: Double Digit on May 15, 2012, 01:45:51 PM

My left side always gave me more problems then the right side ever did...I hear this alot not sure why but something is goin on...

DD,
My experience has been that the left Si usually does give more problems than the right but this has more to do with the side of the motor that the transducer gets installed on. There is more chance of physical blockage of the left Si beam as well as from turbulent water on the left side as more transducers get mounted on the right side of the motor.

inshorecatch · « **Reply #7 on:** May 17, 2012, 06:29:27 PM »

Thanks Greg ahead of you its the transducer, works fine on my friends boat.

sonar2000 · « **Reply #8 on:** May 17, 2012, 06:49:46 PM »

We are starting to see some concerns with our SI and the left side. It is three years old. If we keep HB units we will have to think about a new one. If we can trust it..

Chuck

inshorecatch · « **Reply #9 on:** May 17, 2012, 10:44:50 PM »

I have always had great customer service with humminbird, but I think that its known to go bad after a certain amount of time as these were the first of their kind, you would think they would like to help us out. One replacement free. I was told to look on the internet and try to find one cheaper that the 200 from humminbird, thats with tax and shipping. who knows what the future will hold.

ITGEEK · « **Reply #10 on:** May 18, 2012, 07:15:18 AM »

I think next year (2013) that Humminbird is going to bust out with some new stuff.
It's now time for units with extremely fast processors and gobs of memory.

It may make all our old stuff obsolete.
Even the 1198c is a few years old now.

sonar2000 · « **Reply #11 on:** May 18, 2012, 11:47:48 AM »

Are you suggesting we budget $3000 every three to five years for a new unit. Or times (X) depending on how many units we might have..
Sure glad we dont have to do this with our $50,000 units..

Chuck

inshorecatch · « **Reply #12 on:** May 18, 2012, 12:00:05 PM »

Well Id never go to a low-rance but Im thinking of trying Furuno combo unit. I like the 1k ducer shows more detail you can pick out fish on a rock. If your company can support you, try something new. Ive always loved my humminbird though

ITGEEK · « **Reply #13 on:** May 18, 2012, 12:44:05 PM »

The short anwer to your question Chuck is:
if you want to keep the absolute cutting edge, then Yes,
upgrade no later than every 3 years.

But, if we have units that are still working OK, no need to shell
out the dough until they break. But, if HB comes out with something
that is mind blowing, that could be the push to upgrade.

Inshorecatch:Isn't Furuno mostly for Salt-water?

I think if you want great 2-D detail with a HB, then get an Airmar transducer
and a Y-cable to split up the signals.
Get all of your 2-D from the precision Airmar, and the rest from the HB
side-imaging transducer. If nothing else, the Airmar will probably give
you a bigger field of view than the 2-D HB.

I've been seriously thinking about this myself.

I really like side-imaging, but when I'm on the water, I use the 2-D mostly.
I use the side-imaging for recording and viewing later, and the 2-D for
real-time. I find with the side-imaging, I am trying to interpret what I
see, and I end up messing with the sonar more than trying to fish.

And despite what the pros say about not turning the FISH ID on. I really, really,
really like the fish symbols with the depth of each fish displayed.

inshorecatch · « **Reply #14 on:** May 18, 2012, 02:24:29 PM »

yes furuno is mostly saltwater and that is mostly what I fish. The sidscan is great for my 50 to 70 ft bay which holds lots of grouper and snapper. I think people think this is a freshwater application in less the 20 ft. I use it up to 100 ft with good results, just wish the left side would come back to life.

tv21 · « **Reply #15 on:** June 06, 2012, 05:55:21 PM »

inshorecatch: I have a 997c that I send to HB for the $260 servicing just over a year ago. Unit came back working fine but then after just a couple of trips out my left side-imaging started to deteriorate. It didn't go out at once but gradually over a couple of outings until there was pretty much no reading at all. I sent the unit back to HB (another $30 shipping plus the hassle of removing the 'ducer again) and it came back with the left side-imaging working again...for about 2 outings. The left-side beam started acting quirky again, not reading as well as the right side and finally stopped working completely. After countless hours of googling and combing thru forums, a couple things are clear: 1) The left-side imaging is not just a random problem but an obvious manufacturing defect. 2) It affects more nearly all the side-imaging models and 3) The company is either hiding that fact due to the cost of a recall or they are just clueless. I'm stuck with a $2000 unit with an additional $300 in repair and shipping cost and as I finally figured out what the issue is (and I imagine with many of the other units based on what I've read), HB support would not even consider fixing the problem that they never fixed the first two times around.

My problem lies in the connector on the back of the unit. As I was finally able to find a diagram online showing which of the 7 pins on the transducer cable belonged to the left-side beam (looking at the back of the unit, it is the very bottom receptacle, the one by itself under the two rows of three above and the single one up top). Inside that hole is the brass or gold-plated female fitting that the pin from the transducer cable slides into. My unit has over 20 such receptacles on back and in ever single one I could clearly see the metal female sleeves, except on the left-side imaging receptacle, which somehow has become widened out to the point that i can hardly make it out inside there. My guess is that the plastic mold that these female sleeves are seated in is wider than the others, allowing that left side imaging female sleeve to be stretched out every time the pin (transducer cable) is inserted. My solution, since HB refused to fix what was obviously the problem when I sent it in before, is to insert a couple of pieces of wire strands (from any marine grade stranded wire) about 1/8" long into the female sleeve just before I plug in the cables. Unfortunately, I keep my boat outside so I am forced to remove the unit each time I use the boat. A minor hassle but at least I have my left side imaging back, until/unless that female sleeve widens out anymore. I guess I will have to open the unit up at that time. Very disappointed in HB's service as again, this was definitely my problem from the get go. They told me they replaced the 'ducer the last time I had it there because the cable was ripped. It was a BRAND NEW 'ducer only used a few times when I sent it in with the unit for repair the second time & I definitely did not rip it taken it off the boat. I guess the side-imaging worked one or twice with the new 'ducer because the pin might have been slightly larger. I just wanted to share this as others here have reported the same problem with the left-side beam and in just about every forum I've visited, I've seen the same response from HB Greg:

inshorecatch,
If the left Si is not working than there are only two possibilities here:
#1 the left Si sonar in your transducer has gone out. Install a new XNT-9-Si-180-T transducer to fix this.
#2 the left Si sonar in your unit went out. You would have to send your 797c2 Si unit into Humminbird to be serviced to fix this.

Clearly that is an incorrect statement as a 3rd possibility is the connector, as proof that mine works by Jerry-Rigging it with wire strands. Hopefully this basically "free" fix will work for others vs. the $260 flat fee HB charges to repair the unit (and then you better make sure to use you boat often for the next 60 days to see if the problem returns, as unfortunately I was not) or the $270 for a new transducer. I used to sing HB's praises and I've own HB's for almost 20 yrs but this will be my last due my customer service experience on this issue with them and the fact they are either oblivious to or hiding such a widely experienced issue with their flag-ship product line.

inshorecatch · « **Reply #16 on:** June 06, 2012, 06:53:32 PM »

Thank you I will try the fix, and I think I will follow same suit. I cant see spending good money after bad QA.

sonar2000 · « **Reply #17 on:** June 06, 2012, 07:03:09 PM »

A couple of us have talked about replacing the HB connectors with a different type. Of course this is not for the electronic challenged...

What the heck. the unit is out of warrenty anyway.
But I guess I will wait for the winter months before starting this project.

Chuck

tv21 · « **Reply #18 on:** June 06, 2012, 08:08:07 PM »

inshorecatch, I hope that fix works for you. Just to clarify, I'm only using 2 or 3 wire strands & I cut them so that they just slightly come out the top when I stick them all the way down into the female sleeve. That allows me to bend the ends down tightly along the outside of the hole and they seem to stay snug in there. I can even turn the unit upside down before I insert the cable and they don't fall out. They key is to make sure to place the wires next to each other (as to spread out the contact area with the pin) at the bottom of the hole and leave only enough to fold down to hold them secure when the pin from the transducer cable is inserted. Otherwise, these wires could touch one of the other nearby pins which would sure cause a problem and likely some damage to the unit.

sonar2000, I'm thinking about opening the unit up as well and just replacing that female crimp with one like this http://www.newark.com/molex/02-06-1132/contact-female-30-24awg-crimp/dp/85C0027 and possibly even replacing the male pin with this one or sliding it over the existing pin, if it will fit. Not sure about the wire size until i get in there but thinking it's probably about that size. This site has tons of other connectors as well if not. http://www.newark.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?SKU=85C0026 Please let me know how it works out if you decide to open it up and re-do the connections.

sonar2000 · « **Reply #19 on:** June 07, 2012, 09:28:34 AM »

TV21. Thanks, we are looking at several connectors but lean toward the assemblies that twist lock in place. It may take some work but in the end maybe we can solve an issue. Our other units (brands) that have these dont seem to have a connection problems and are using the screw type connectoras so we want to take their idea and move forward.
Since our units are now legacys and the warrenty is gone it wont make a difference if we screw up the unit.
The only thing is to buy new and I am concerned that the new has the old connectors..Dont know if we will go there.
Thank goodness we have alternate brands that do the same job. And as I have said before "there is not a one brand that does the job all of the time. They have strong points and they have limits." so HB is just part of the tool box.
Thanks again for the link..
Chuck

ITGEEK · « **Reply #20 on:** June 07, 2012, 10:35:27 AM »

tv21:
That is an extremely clever fix you have there, using
wire strands.
This will insure a good contact even if the
original connectors get loose.

It's so great to see the innovations that people
come up with. As they say, 'Necessity is the mother of invention'.

Great Job.

Doc Stressor · « **Reply #21 on:** June 07, 2012, 12:22:52 PM »

That's great info tv21!

I've also posted here about the left side of my transducer going out intermittently. So far Humminbird has replaced the transducer twice (on 2 different units) but the problem keeps coming back.

I've had other problems relating to lose connector pins, but I never suspected that the left side problem might have the same root cause. My previous work around was to slightly bend the male pins to get a better connection. That works for a while, but running a boat rough water seems to loosen up the pins again over time.

Humminbird REALLY needs to change those connectors to something more robust if they are getting serious about the saltwater market.

One question:

Did you insert the wire strands into all of the female connector ports or just the one carrying the left side signal?

tv21 · « **Reply #22 on:** June 07, 2012, 02:08:17 PM »

Doc Stressor- I only used the wires on the left-side imaging female receptacle. I've googled this problem countless times over the last year and knowing what I know about electronics, from my experience, is that usually it's an all or none problem (where it just stops working cold one day for good) when things go such as transistor or something inside the head unit or the transducer. Intermittent problems are usually loose wires, connectors or corrosion, again for my experience. As soon as I found that diagram on-line showing which of the 7 contacts on the transducer cable belonged to the left side beam I looked at the back of my unit and was already 99.9% sure of the problem before I even tried the wires. I count 22 of the exact same size female contacts in the back of my 997c (not counting the 2 larger contacts for the power and what looks like 5 of the 10 on the accessory side which don't seem to have the brass female sleeves installed). Of all 22 identical sized receptacles, I can clear see the brass sleeves which have a slightly smaller diameter than the hole that they are seated in the black plastic molding around them. However, the sleeve for my left-side imaging (bottom center when holding the unit upright and viewing from behind) is so widened out that you can barely see that it's in there. The sleeve has widened out actually wider than the hole in the plastic housing so it's obvious that the pin from the 'ducer cable is barely making contact. You can see the other sleeves are sort of elliptical shaped with slits in them so that they are slightly compressed and made to expand around the pin when it slides in, to maintain tight contact. However, that design also allows the sleeve to expand to a wider opening if the plastic around it is not tight enough. My guess is that this is a manufacturing defect with that plastic part that holds the sleeves in place whereby maybe only that left side imaging hole is slightly larger than the rest, hence all the problems everyone is having (and that sleeve would likely be blank in non-SI units). Therefore, you should be able to visually look to see if this is your problem. Your problem could also be corrosion so you might want to try cleaning out the inside of the sleeve. I know lots of folks also have issues with the units shutting off in rough water... most likely the same issue on one of the two power cable female sleeves so the wire rig fix should work for them as well. The more you take the unit on & off the boat, the more likely those female sleeves are going to stretch out. Just keep those wires short enough that they don't come in contact with any of the nearby pins. G-luck and let me know if it works.

Bob B · « **Reply #23 on:** June 07, 2012, 06:50:36 PM »

Great info TV21........Have you talked to Humminbird customer service about your findings? I would try to get my money back or something else from them to make up for not really fixing your problem.
If Greg checks in here, he may be able help get some action for you....or you could post on this forum http://www.bbcboards.net/humminbird-sonar-gps/ under the customer service "sticky thread." There is a lady named Deborah from customer service who watches that forum who may be able to get some kind of compensation for you.

My guess is that the unit worked fine with a new transducer and they assumed they had it fixed....I'd really hate to think they were aware that the female connector was defective and didn't resolve the problem. I do think that the flaky connectors are the weakest link with the SI units and they really do need to bite the bullet and re-design them.

Chuck,
Keep us posted if you do some sort of connector retrofit. I am thinking of splicing an external add on connector into mine before I wear out the ones out on the back of the unit.

sonar2000 · « **Reply #24 on:** June 07, 2012, 07:53:55 PM »

Bob B, I will keep you updated this winter. Unless it goes out before then. Roddy is looking into this also.
I think it is enough of an issue that we will have to do something..

Chuck

tv21 · « **Reply #25 on:** June 08, 2012, 04:32:32 PM »

Bob B-

I spent over 10 minutes just trying to explain to the customer service rep what the problem was (bad receptacle on the head unit) but she kept thinking I was talking about the transducer cable plug pin. We went round and round until I think she finally got it but I really don't think she fully understood my point that after two attempts and $300 in repair and shipping costs, HB never fixed the original problem, hence my request to have them consider fixing it now that I clearly isolated the problem. She was insistent that there was nothing they could do since I missed the 60-day repair warranty window. Unfortunately, I had some issues that kept me off the water during most that time. However, I might give that forum a try so thank you for the link. I'd much rather have that connector replaced than continue to have to use my wire strand rig, as the wires pull out each time I unplug the cable to remove the unit. Wouldn't be an issue if the boat was garage kept but I hate to leave a $2k unit sitting on the boat outside and risk it being stolen. Thanks again for the suggestion.

Roddy · « **Reply #26 on:** June 08, 2012, 11:55:45 PM »

OK, I have removed the back of a 987si unit and added spliced in wiring to a single Water prof MIL-SPEC canon plug and rewired the Transducer,GPS/COM and Power cables into the other half of the canon plug.

Yes I did drill a .25 inch hole in the back cover co the unit that was waterprofed with a rubber grommet and 3M 5200.

I have used this unit four 39.6 hours with no Problem.

The Canon Plugs are a bit on the expensive side and the pin puller/pusher tool kit can be found at an aviation tool supply.

I will refit all of my DIY Tow Fish And Humminbird units with canon plugs this summer.

Roddy

Bob B · « **Reply #27 on:** June 09, 2012, 11:25:24 AM »

Hey, sounds great Roddy.....do you have any pictures ......part #s for the plug you used?

Roddy · « **Reply #28 on:** June 09, 2012, 02:06:24 PM »

Bob B, I'll try to upload a few Monday.

There are some on Ebay if you know what is needed.

There kits on-line,be sure to get the pin set with the plug.

A pin puller/pusher/crimp-er kit goes for US$500.00+ new or a cheep pusher/puller tool US$20.00 and solider the wire to the pin.

Roddy

Roddy · « **Reply #29 on:** June 09, 2012, 08:43:00 PM »

Bob B, That woman at HB CS!*%#Q@!()()_(#!~! Does not listen to people at all. I have had a few go-a-rounds with her. Now I hang up and call back latter.

She is not a people person!!

Roddy

Bob B · « **Reply #30 on:** June 09, 2012, 09:21:58 PM »

Sorry to hear that Roddy.....She did help me out via email when I was having problems getting emails from the Humminbird Select registration. I have never talked to her, but have seen her get action for people on that other forum. She seemed to be able to make something happen when other customer service attempts had failed.

Seems to be some instances where customer service just breaks down.

All the more reason we have to help each other out whenever we can.....I appreciate the info you have to share. I think you and TV21 are really onto something with your innovative ways to resolve the connector problem.

tv21 · « **Reply #31 on:** June 15, 2012, 02:08:26 PM »

Bob B (and all)-

Just an FYI- Someone had forwarded my posts from this thread to Deborah at HB CS and she contacted me, looked into the history of my problem, and got approval from the service manager to repair my unit at no additional cost (other than shipping on my end). I just wanted to let everyone know and thank you for forwarding my story (assuming it was you) or at least mentioning that she might be able to help. Obviously I'm feeling better about HB customer svc but I wouldn't have gotten that far had it not been for this forum. Thanks to all.

Also, thanks Roddy for the suggestion on how to rewire the connections. I have a 90-day warranty once they fix it this time and I'm just guessing it will only be a matter of time before the contacts stretch out again, depending on how often I remove and re-connect the unit, of course. Hopefully, this fix buys me a year or more before that becomes an issue again.

Bob B · « **Reply #32 on:** June 15, 2012, 04:53:31 PM »

Hey.....great to hear they took care of you.

Roddy · « **Reply #33 on:** June 15, 2012, 05:29:09 PM »

tv21, Good to know HB will now fix this problem. Roddy

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Author Topic: Transducer suffering (Read 16783 times)

Doc Stressor

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