Topic: Vegetation Layer Not Displaying Correctly on Helix 10 Mega

[Vicus Horn]

My setup is as follows:

Fishfinder:
Humminbird Helix 10 Mega Chirp SI G2N
Sofware Version: 1.840 (Latest)

Trolling Motor:
Minn Kota iPilot – Link
Controller Software Version: 1.240
Remote Software Version: 1.170

Software:
Auochart Pro Version 2.3 (Latest)
Includes Africa Zero Lines SD card. ( I live in South Africa)

I purchased this mainly because I was impressed with the follow the contour and follow vegetation features. The control part of that actually works well on my boat. Very happy and impressed with the control aspect of the setup.

There are a few problems though. I have found ways to work around or cope with most of them. But I think they can be improved upon.

When I create maps on my Autochart Pro software
The maps I get are pretty good. The vegetation shows up where it is in reality. I know this as I have extensive experience of the water where I did the mapping. Very happy with the maps I create. So far so good…

When I display the maps on the control head:
Couple of issues here.

THE MAP SOURCE

When I got to Map Source on the Control head, I get the following options:

1. Auto
2. Contour XD

My Zero Lines SD card is not a contour XD card? (This is confusing)

Obviously if I try to use Contour XD, my mapping does not work. When I put it on Auto, my custom maps can be shown using “Autochart” as either a base layer or overlay.
So, although I can use my custom maps by selecting “Auto” as a map source, why does “Contour XD” show up as an option if it is of no use? And why is there no explicit option to use my custom maps? Or why does the Africa Zero Lines Base Map not show up as an option? I am very confused here. Oh well at least I still get the charting to work in spite of the confusion.

THE VEGETATION LAYER

This is what the vegetation layer looks like on my PC after creating a map with Autochart Pro:

https://imageshack.com/a/img921/6686/qzANyz.jpg

And this is what it looks like on the control head:

https://imageshack.com/a/img924/2391/OaWTfc.jpg

Vast difference.

I tried adjusting the Vegetation Layer Options. No joy. The Min and Max vegetation settings are just scale related. It only sets the “sensitivity”. It does not correct the position, which seems to be the problem here?
Changing the Gain Offset does nothing at all. That is also confusing. Should it not have some effect.

I am very surprised that the vegetation looks absolutely perfect on my PC, but utterly screwed up on my fishfinder.

Any ideas?

[rnvinc]

I may be able to help with the first part  ...

AutoChart maps created in AutoChart PC and transferred to the Zero Line card are bonified LakeMaster Map data (with all the features of a regional LakeMaster map card or Chart Select LakeMaster map card)  ...

Contour XD is the base map in the unit memory  ...

AutoChart Live data and AutoChart PC created data are 2 completely different things  ...

AutoChart Live data (in the unit 8 hour unit memory or on the Zero Line card) is displayed on the Chart view as an overlay on top of Contour XD basemap, Navionics card map data, regional LakeMaster card map data, Chart Select LakeMaster card map data, or LakeMaster map card data on the Zero Line card created in AutoChart PC  ...

Point #1: When you select Contour XD in the Chart selection Menu - you are telling the unit to disregard any map card inserted in the SD card slot and only use the built in Contour XD basemap  ...

Point #2: When you select Auto in the Chart selection menu- you are telling the unit to look for a map card inserted in the SD card slot  ...

Then AutoChart Live data (in the unit 8 hour memory or on the Zero Line card) is overlayed on top of the map data chosen in Point #1 or Point #2 above  ...

Rickie

[rnvinc]

You might also post your question in the AutoChart sub-forum because some guys visit that sub-forum without looking in other sub-forums  ...

http://forums.sideimagingsoft.com/index.php?board=76.0

Rickie

[Vicus Horn]

I may be able to help with the first part  ...

AutoChart maps created in AutoChart PC and transferred to the Zero Line card are bonified LakeMaster Map data (with all the features of a regional LakeMaster map card or Chart Select LakeMaster map card)  ...

Contour XD is the base map in the unit memory  ...

AutoChart Live data and AutoChart PC created data are 2 completely different things  ...

AutoChart Live data (in the unit 8 hour unit memory or on the Zero Line card) is displayed on the Chart view as an overlay on top of Contour XD basemap, Navionics card map data, regional LakeMaster card map data, Chart Select LakeMaster card map data, or LakeMaster map card data on the Zero Line card created in AutoChart PC  ...

Point #1: When you select Contour XD in the Chart selection Menu - you are telling the unit to disregard any map card inserted in the SD card slot and only use the built in Contour XD basemap  ...

Point #2: When you select Auto in the Chart selection menu- you are telling the unit to look for a map card inserted in the SD card slot  ...

Then AutoChart Live data (in the unit 8 hour memory or on the Zero Line card) is overlayed on top of the map data chosen in Point #1 or Point #2 above  ...

Rickie

Thanks for this. It does clear up the map selection part to a large degree.

I do understand that Autochart Live and Autochart PC created maps are entirely different. I actually have some issues regarding that as well:

(Now this is where things get really confusing. )

WHEN SELECTING BASE LAYER AND OVERLAY ON THE MAIN MENU

I have only 3 options:

1. None

2.2D Base Map

3. Autochart

I sort of get the idea that if I select "Autochart" here, it is the PC created map, because I notice that if I select "Autochart" here, my custom shoreline that I created on the PC is part of the map that is displayed, and the contour lines shown seems to take this custom shoreline into account. So far, so good.

WHEN I SELECT "AUTOCHART" ON THE CHART MENU (X-Press Menu)

When I am displaying a chart view, I presss "Menu" to bring up the charting X-Press Menu, and I select "Autochart", I get options to show or hide Autochart, or start or stop recording. And, I get various options to control how this "Autochart" is displayed. This includes "Vegetation" and "Hottom Hardness", colour palette etc. So this looks to me to all be related only to "Autochart Live".

In fact, I use this Autochart Live display to guide me while making sonar recordings, so that I have good visualization of how well I am covering the area I want to map. So I normally have my sonar recording and Autochart live recording running at the same time while mapping.

So at the moment when I am not recording and want to simply use my PC created maps, I would want to have only my PC Created map shown, and Autochart Live set to "hidden" so that I can now enjoy fishing while using my PC created map.

And this is where the problem lies. For if I hide my Autochart Live, I have very little control over how my PC map is displayed.

In order to use my PC Created map, I have to select it either as a base layer or overlay (usually base layer), and hide the "Autochart Live" map.
Problem is.....if I do that, I lose all control over how the map is displayed. Because all the X-Press menu map display controls seem to be only related to the "Live" map.

I can still show the vegetation and bottom hardness layers, but these seem to be generated via "Autochart Live", in spite of the fact that the "live" map is set to "hidden". But I cannot change the appearance of my PC created map at all.

Things would be far simpler and less confusing if the PC and the "Live" maps each had their own, separate, explicit controls. As it is it confuses the $%#@ out of me.

As it is, I seem to have full control over how "Autochart Live" is displayed as far as bottom layer, contour spacing, colour palette etc. is concerned, but no control what so ever over how my PC map is displayed. It seems to come up only as "dead" a base layer showing black contour lines with no colouring, and I cant find any option or way to adjust it.

And then there is the disconnect between how well the vegetation layer shows up on my pc and the vegetation layer that seems to generated by Autochart Live. The quality of the vegetation layer on my PC is way better. Wish I could display it properly on my Helix Unit!
 
Or maybe I am missing something, and the "Live" and "PC" maps actually do have separated controls for bottom layer, colour palette etc.? 


 

[rnvinc]

You are correct that the Menu options under the separate AutoChart Live Menu (in the HB unit) only controls the AutoChart Live overlay feature (regardless of which map card is inserted in the SD card slot and chosen as a base under the AutoChart overlay)  ... 
----

Now with the AutoChart PC created map and transferred to the Zero Line card - this is creating a bonified LakeMaster map card with the same feature capabilities of a regional LakeMaster map card or a Chart Select LakeMaster purchased map card. This means Menu selections under the HB Chart tab like "Depth Highlight", "Shallow Water Highlight", and "Water Level Offset" should be able to be applied to your AutoChart PC created map on the Zero Line card  (but not Menu selections in the separate AutoChart Live menu)  ...

I'm not 100% sure - but the bottom hardness and vegetation layer created in AutoChart PC may only be able to be viewed in the AutoChart PC software (I don't use either AutoChart product to be absolutely sure of this item)  ...

Please be patient with answers in the AutoChart sub-forum (I see you posted).  Some of those guys don't check in everyday  ...

Rickie

[Vicus Horn]

You are correct that the Menu options under the separate AutoChart Live Menu (in the HB unit) only controls the AutoChart Live overlay feature (regardless of which map card is inserted in the SD card slot and chosen as a base under the AutoChart overlay)  ... 

Thanks for confirming this. The confusion arises because the X-Press menu reads "Autochart" and not "Autochart Live". I think the software should be updated as such. It is not big change, and it would be a bit more clear to newbies like me. 

Now with the AutoChart PC created map and transferred to the Zero Line card - this is creating a bonified LakeMaster map card with the same feature capabilities of a regional LakeMaster map card or a Chart Select LakeMaster purchased map card. This means Menu selections under the HB Chart tab like "Depth Highlight", "Shallow Water Highlight", and "Water Level Offset" should be able to be applied to your AutoChart PC created map on the Zero Line card  (but not Menu selections in the separate AutoChart Live menu)

Ah, this helps a lot. I have been trying to get control over my PC created map by trying to use the X-Press menu. I understand now that I should be using the HB Chart Tab for that. My focus has been on the wrong place. I will explore the HB Chart Tab a bit more and get to know it.

I'm not 100% sure - but the bottom hardness and vegetation layer created in AutoChart PC may only be able to be viewed in the AutoChart PC software (I don't use either AutoChart product to be absolutely sure of this item)  ...

I mailed Humminbird Support, an here is part of their reply:


"The map you create in the program will not look the same once you put it in the unit. Some of the settings / features in the program can only be done in the program. I did noticed that on your email you only list None, 2D Map, and Autochart. If you created a bottom hardness from the data and updated the Lakemaster folder, you should also see Bottom Hardness as an option."

So that seems you are at least partly correct. I have not tried using bottom hardness much, as I find vegetation more useful in the waters I fish. But I will try it out, and their reply does clear things up for me. I will possibly post on the "wish list" that vegetation should be added the same way bottom hardness has. The vegetation layer created by Autochart Pro is better than the one generated by "Live".

Please be patient with answers in the AutoChart sub-forum (I see you posted).  Some of those guys don't check in everyday  ...

Will do. 

Thank you Rickie, for taking the time to give detailed and useful answers to my questions. I has already been very helpful, and cleared a few things up for me. I now have a good idea of how to proceed from this point.

[Sawyer]

I agree with Vicus, very hepful. Thank you for your time Rickie!

[Mark Saikaley]

I agree very helpful thanks. I have not spent as much time trying to resolve the above issues, but I have experienced the same sort of confusion which is saying something about the User Interface. What I have done is create my own pas from the sonar and live charting and then saved them back on the zero lines card. When the card is back in my chart is automatically loads into my lave view and that's the only view Im seeing (ie not sure if that's the map I created of the recorded data but seems like the latter. I have not yet figured out how to view the PC Created and saved map in a way that resembles the "Grey Scale" view that appeared on the PC. Also I have not been able to view this map to date on my 997CSI which was confirmed by Humminbird to work with the last update for that unit that is supposed to read the map.  I have not spent several hours yet trying to figure it out but I have spent significant time on different occasions, I will use th info above and go back at it again in the spring when My boat is out of storage would be so nice to have an AC Adapter for these units