Topic: Help... Side imaging range issues

[FISHUNTR]

I'll try to make this brief and include the neccessary info.  Have a 798 ci hd that has several issues which I addressed with humminbird customer service, here were the issues:
1- Screen lagging horribly when trying to pan the cursor across the screen on nav page
2- Bottom readings on 2d sonar start to get faint beyond 200' or so and will barely read bottom somewhere around 4-500' and worse nbeyond that- see 1st photo
3- Screen starts to get noisy only when boat is in motion (2d sonar) around 350' or so and increases until it fills the screen the deeper it gets like 4-500'.  Ive already ruled out noise from the motor by revving it when in those depths sitting still- see 2nd photo
4-  side imaging screen will not display a full width reading of bottom whenever range is set above 100-110' in water deeper than 30' or so... the screen just goes black on either side of the left and right reading of the bottom- see photo 3 & 4.
Humminbird help was great at 1st.. went thru the usual hoops of sending in all kinds of screenshots & photos of ducer install.  They sent me a new ducer which yielded no change, sent me a new head unit and that yielded no change.  All this went on for about 2 weeks  and the last email I got was this:
Thank you for the update.  The pics have been reviewed.  As you get deeper than 40 feet you are going to need to start turning up the sensitivity.  Once you get to 95 feet + you are getting to the very maximum depth capability of the unit and the sensitivity should be set to 20.  It is expected that the return is not going to look perfect when you get to the maximum depth capability.  Besides sensitivity there is not anything else that should affect the performance. 
I guess they were at a loss of what was going on and decided they were done trying... I responded back asking if they are saying it was operating normally and if they further state that 95' is the near max capability when all literature says 150' and got ZERO response!! I was ticked to say the least and was just drained from having to deal with it all taking snapshots, photos, answering questions with lengthy answers etc.  I felt I was just stuck with it with it with no other recourse.   I know something is wrong because I owned a 797 and a 798 prior to the current one and neither had these problems. 
So fast forward to this week.. I have never fooled with the down imaging and hid all those views cause I thought it was a gimmick.  A friend talked me into checking it out which I did the other day and I find another issue... it wont read bottom in deep water (at least in 86' see pic 5) Im not sure at what depth this starts yet (i know it works in 40-50') but the screen shot shows it all.  So this has got me resolved again to try to get this fixed.  So can anyone offer any assistance or have had any of these issues with their units?  BTW I did call customer service today and requested a supervisor call me but have not heard from them yet.

 

[Humminbird_Greg]

Were the 797 and 798 units used on this same boat?
Did they use the same power cable and transducer (well, the one before you replaced it)?
What has changed on the setup on your boat between the 797/798 and this 798ci HD Si unit?

[FISHUNTR]

No.. the previous 797 / 798 was on a different boat that I sold and purchased a new one with the current unit (also brand new).  The hulls are very similair and everything installed the same way as last unit.  Initially the power wire was connected (by the dealer) by piggybacking power off a breaker... during the troubleshoot process I moved it to connect directly to the battery to eliminate any possibility of it being power related per customer service.  I'm at a total loss as to why its doing what its doing... the install stuff was gone thru from stem to stern with customer service last time, they even haad me take the ducer off the boat and temporarily put it on a pole that I would hold in the water to see if that changed anything.  I really wonder if its software related cause the lagging issue stopped after the last SW update.... on this unit the bottom readings in the SI get real dim in anything beyond 30' requiring the sensitivity be turned up to keep it bright enough to view, on the previous 2 I NEVER touched the sensitivity for anything dealing with the side imaging... all 3 are / were operated in the same exact area / body of water so nothings changed there either.  Heres a screen shot of the last 798 which pretty much shows the difference between las unit and the current one cause in the above SI screen shots the sides started getting dark when range was above 110' and this one shows full width readout @ 150' range and they were in simlair depths

[Humminbird_Greg]

Not sure what is going on either.  Different unit, different transducer but same results.  Points to either something different in the design of the unit (software included) or the power to the unit as you eliminated the transducer mounting as an issue with the pole test.  I guess it is possible that you could have gotten two units or two transducers with the same problem…  Would be nice if you could find someone else in that area with a 798ci HD Si unit to cross-test with.
Anyone else have any ideas?

[rnvinc]

For deeper water applications...I would think one of the 200kHz/50kHz Dual Beam xducers on the AS SIDB Y cable would be of better benefit here...(Greg will have to help here with possible xducer choices because the new website doesn't have a complete listing of xducer compatibility info anymore)...

The second 2d pic...what changed in the history to cause the screen to go from clean to cluttered all at once....??

The SI pix seem to indicate that the water was very wavy or choppy ...(due to the vertical line where the water column meets the bottom detail is very wavy)....these are not good conditions for SI scanning...how rough was the water the day of these pix...??

The darker edges in the SI images looks like soft bottom that is just absorbing all the sound pulse...what kind of bottom were you over...?? (When I'm scanning gravel, my SI Sensitivity may be at 1...when I'm scanning mud, my SI Sensitivity made be at 20 and wishing I had more Sensitivity)...

I am constantly changing the SI Sensitivity on my SI because of the fact that bottom composition and water depth/clarity has such an effect on the brightness of the SI image...and every software version is different in the needs of Sensitivity affecting the SI image...so ...what settings work for 1 software version will not necessarily work for a different version ...

About the DI image... The DI image in a HB SI unit is basically the SI info "re-arranged" on the screen ...due to the fact there is no DI piezo in the HDSI xducer...(any anomolies in the SI image are also going to show in the DI view...basically if the SI is yukky...the DI is going to be yukky too)...

Can you also list your location in case someone is close enough to you to offer assistance...??

Rickie

[FISHUNTR]

H/Greg- that crossed my mind too about possibly getting 2 bad TD's or Head units.  Unfortunatley I have put out requests before on some forums to see if someone would let me use there head unit and am unable to locate anyone nearby.

Rnvinc- 
1-  Yes the 50hz would definately be a better choice but I think for anything 500 and under this one should work way better than it does.
2-  What changed in the pic was when it was clear the boat was idling and sitting still except for moving with the current, where the clutter starts is when I put it in gear and the boat was moving
3-  It was choppy that day matbe 2-3' seas... customer service requested I get some more screenshots and it was gettign into fall so the window for me to get out was getting short.  I realize im not going to get good images on rough days but that would not cause the outer edges to go dark at range settings above 110'.  The bottom is pretty firm sand, this is in the Atlantic ocean and I dont notice any areas specifically where the problem improves or gets worse, only depth and range seem to be the common denominator.

4-  Raising sensitivity does help some but then some of the edges will become slightly visible and the portion nearest the centerline of the screen gets to bright and waashes out.

Thanks for the info about SI / DI correlation makes sense so I guess it does re-affirm there is a problem with something.

Thanks for replying guys... keep em coming if you think of anything... still waiting on call from customer service.

[rnvinc]

I'm guessing there are several things going on here and each one may have to be tackled separately...and most likely in a certain order ...

From your info ... It seems the big motor is creating RF interference that's getting into the HB system somehow...causing that 2nd 2d image to clutter instantly when starting higher RPM's...

You mentioned HB suggested mounting the xducer to a pole and testing...did this 2d problem of "instant clutter at higher motor RPM" go away in the 2d view when you had the xducer on the pole and (hopefully) farther away from the big motor...??

As a confirming test... If moving the xducer (and it's cabling) completely away from the big motor fixes the 2d clutter problem...then steps will have to be taken to eliminate this RF interference ...or move the xducer far enough away from the source RF (big motor)....that the RF field doesn't infiltrate the xducer (or it's cable depending in where the RF is getting in)...

I think this should be the first priority ...as fixing the RF infiltration may also help with (or eliminate) the other issues...

Rickie

[FISHUNTR]

The motor causing interference was ruled out with the TD on a pole... didnt change anything, its really odd that it only does that out in deep water.  Beins its having issues reading bottom out deep to maybe they are related?

[rnvinc]

The motor causing interference was ruled out with the TD on a pole... didnt change anything, its really odd that it only does that out in deep water.  Beins its having issues reading bottom out deep to maybe they are related?

We discussed the 2nd 2d image going from clean to cluttered "all at once"...(as seen in the history of the image)...

So this abrupt "change" in the display only happened because the boat got into deeper water ...and had nothing to do with the big motor operating at higher RPMs...??

Meaning...you can shut the big motor completely off and the clutter is still evident in the 2d image ...but only in deep water...??

Rickie

[FISHUNTR]

The image was taken while in neutral idling... the clutter appeared when it was put in gear and began moving.  I havetested that to find out if it is interference by revving the motor and do not get the interference and tested it by running the TD on a pole (TD wire draped over the deck and not run thru rigging tube) and again the clutter still appeared when moving forward.  It starts when the boat hits about 10mph.