Topic: 1198si and Airmar Transducer?

[BCLII]

I just finished installing the SIDB-Y cable to the 1198si. The dual beam is an Airmar 50/200 thru hull transducer with the Humminbird adapter cable connected to the SIDB-Y cable (the Airmar was installed already in my boat with the Garmin I removed to make room for the 1198si) My question is that Airmar should work just like a Humminbird dual beam transducer, tied in with the HDSI transducer and Y cable, correct? The 1198si should switch back and forth automatically at high speed?
I also got the 788ci HD Down imaging unit installed in the bow with the Ethernet connection.
thanks

[Humminbird_Greg]

BCLII,
That Airmar transducer will work as a 50/200kHz Dual Beam transducer would – but not as the standard 200/83kHz DualBeam transducer will.  The difference is that the 83kHz 2D sonar in the 1198 unit will not work correctly.  If you want to use the 50kHz sonar in the 1198 unit than you would have to change the Transducer Select menu to the “Dual 50 / 200” menu setting, but than the Si and Di sonar will not work.

There is no automatic transducer switching in the unit when using the AS-Si-DB-Y cable (or any other cable or switch).  The AS-Si-DB-Y cable simply redirects the connection that was going to the 2D sonar portion of the Side Imaging transducer to a secondary transducer.  This secondary transducer is always connected to the unit; so any 2D sonar will be from this secondary transducer and never from the Side Imaging transducer.

[BCLII]

There is no 50/200 selection, only 83/200!
I already went through 2 DBSI Y cables . Burnt out the DB side. Humminbird select requested pictures and I am now waiting a reply from them. My opion is the humminbird DB side off the y cable is not compatible with airmar ducer. Airmar 50/200 works connected directly with the unit.
Also the 788ciDI DOES NOT show depth off the 1198 using the Ethernet cable. It does not recongize the 1198 ducer!

[ITGEEK]

BCLII:
I have an 1197c, and I've been thinking about getting an Airmar
transducer myself for some time now.  Knowing what transducer setting to
use is critical to having good function.  I have no idea if the
Airmar will work the way I want it to or not.

From what I've read, the Humminbird gets it's depth
only from the 200khz frequency.
Is there a 200khz only transducer selection on your 1198c?
If so, I'd set the Airmar to that setting and try it.
All of your 2-D would be coming from the Airmar at 200khz, but
as long as you're not fishing really deep water, you shouldn't even
need the 50khz.

Let me know if that works.
I'd be very curious to know how the Airmar works.
Please keep us updated.
Thanks.

[ITGEEK]

I just thought of something, and please Greg confirm this.
There is only one transducer selection on all of the units.

So, if someone wanted to keep their SI/DI, but wanted to
get 2-D from another transducer (using the AS-Si-DB-Y cable),
then they would still have to select High Definition Sidescan
as their transducer type.

So Greg,
If an Airmar dual beam (50/200) is used as the 2-d transducer hooked to
the AS-Si-DB-Y cable, could there be compatibility issues, since
you can't tell the system what kind/brand of transducer that is?

Thanks.

[Doc Stressor]

He needs the TS3 transducer switch rather than the Y cable. Both transducer leads will plug into the switch. The universal pigtail connector will likely also be needed with an older Airmar without a Humminbird connector.

I have both an Airmar B60 (2D 50/200 Hz) and the stock Humminbird XHS 9 HDSI 180 T running off my 998.

I set the head unit to read 200 Hz only and select the Humminbird 83/200 Hz transducer in setup. That way I can get the full Humminbird functionality when I use the switch to select the Humminbird transducer and the greater sensitivity of the 200 Hz 2D function when I select the Airmar transducer. I only need to go into setup and select 50/200 Hz when I want to use the Airmar 50 Hz signal, which is rare.

[ITGEEK]

So Doc,
I'm a little confused.
For your tranducer type selection on your main unit
when using the HB transducer, do you select
High Definition Sidescan, or 83/200 Hz transducer?

Thanks.

[Humminbird_Greg]

ITG,
Yes you would still use the “Hi-Def Sidescan” menu setting.  The unit does not know what transducer is connected to it.  I would not expect that the 83kHz sonar would work well if you set it to display it.


Now, if you wanted to make use of the 200/83kHz of your Humminbird HDSi transducer and/or the 50kHz of the Airmar transducer; you would need to install a transducer switch (TS3) and make the correct menu setting change whenever you toggle the switch from one transducer to the other.

[Doc Stressor]

Yep. I use the Hi-Def Sidescan transducer selection in the setup menu. When the Airmar transducer is selected with the switch, only the 200 Hz signal is processed as long as the head unit is set at 200 Hz (not 83 or 83/200). The side imaging and down imaging functions are lost since they operate on different frequencies and plug pins that are not connected to the Airmar.

I lose the temperature and 50 Hz function of the Airmar unless I go back into setup and select the 50/200 Hz transducer setting. All the Humminbird functions are restored when I switch back to the Humminbird transducer.

I have no use for the 50 Hz Airmar function since I fish in 100 ft or less. The Airmar has a more narrow 200 Hz cone than the Humminbird and shows at least twice the 2D sensitivity at the same settings. The narrow beam also provides better bottom detail for finding small ledges, etc. But I can go back to full side imaging and down imaging functions with a tip of the rocker switch.

As I understand things, the head unit is putting out both the 200 Hz and 83 Hz signals all of the time when the Hi-Def Sidescan transducer is selected. But only the 200 Hz return signal is processed. Airmar told me that their transducer crystal would not be damaged by the 83 Hz output. So far, everything has worked fine for over a year.

[Humminbird_Greg]

The 83kHz should only be produced when either the 83kHz or 200/83kHz settings are selected in the Beam Select menu OR whenever you use the side-by-side 200/83kHz split beam View.

[ITGEEK]

This is great information.
So Doc, have you ever tried using the
fish symbols with the Airmar transducer?

I also wonder if all the Humminbird 2-D functions
work the same , if you are switched to the
Airmar transducer?

[Doc Stressor]

The fish symbols work.

As far as I can tell all of the 2D functions are the same. The only difference is the sensitivity.

[Humminbird_Greg]

All 2D sonar menus and functions should be the same whether connected to an Airmar, Humminbird or Minn Kota transducer.  Any differences seen will be due to the design and construction of the transducer (narrower transducer beam will concentrate the same amount of power in a smaller area thus looking like a stronger or more sensitive transducer – flip side of this may be shallow water depth reading problems).

[ITGEEK]

Ok Greg, here is a technical question for you.
Some Airmar transducers have a larger cone angle than
the standard Humminbird transducer.  I think there is one that
has a 25 degree cone angle, and I think I read that the Humminbird
has like a 17 degree angle or so.

Let's say I was using a huge Airmar transducer with a 25 degree
cone angle for 2-D sonar only, and I made a sonar recording
with it:
Then, I was playing back the recording, and I noticed a big Rock at say
90 feet deep, that I wanted to waypoint/GPS. 
My question is, if you are using a cone angle that is different than the
stock Humminbird cone angle (for 2-d), then will the marked waypoints
still be as accurate, given that they may be outside of the normal
cone that the stock Humminbird transducer can cover?

[Humminbird_Greg]

The waypoint marked so may not be as accurate due to the larger area covered by the transducer beam.  It really gets back to where the rock was in relationship to the transducer (did the rock pass through the center of the transducer beam or over to one side or the other?) and where you actually marked it on the sonar display.  Of course you have to add it the positioning inaccuracy of the GPS system itself but that would be the same with either a narrow or wide sonar beam.  If you passed directly over the rock with either transducer and also marked the same place on the rock both times; than it would be as accurate.

Our standard 200kHz sonar beam is 20 degrees when measured at the -10db point (everyone does not measure them at that db point).

[BCLII]

Yep. I use the Hi-Def Sidescan transducer selection in the setup menu. When the Airmar transducer is selected with the switch, only the 200 Hz signal is processed as long as the head unit is set at 200 Hz (not 83 or 83/200). The side imaging and down imaging functions are lost since they operate on different frequencies and plug pins that are not connected to the Airmar.

I lose the temperature and 50 Hz function of the Airmar unless I go back into setup and select the 50/200 Hz transducer setting. All the Humminbird functions are restored when I switch back to the Humminbird transducer.

I have no use for the 50 Hz Airmar function since I fish in 100 ft or less. The Airmar has a more narrow 200 Hz cone than the Humminbird and shows at least twice the 2D sensitivity at the same settings. The narrow beam also provides better bottom detail for finding small ledges, etc. But I can go back to full side imaging and down imaging functions with a tip of the rocker switch.

As I understand things, the head unit is putting out both the 200 Hz and 83 Hz signals all of the time when the Hi-Def Sidescan transducer is selected. But only the 200 Hz return signal is processed. Airmar told me that their transducer crystal would not be damaged by the 83 Hz output. So far, everything has worked fine for over a year.

I'm still a little confused here! With this setting above ALL Humminbird functions are RESTORED when I switch back to the Humminbird ducer switch? That means SI &DI works without going into the menu and switching too 200/83?

[ITGEEK]

200/83khz frequencies are only for conventional 2-d sonar.
455/800khz frequencies are only for down/side imaging.

I guess Doc leaves his 2-d frequency set at 200khz.
Then, in the transducer select menu, he chooses
Dual 50/200 for the Airmar, or
High-Def Sidesan for the Humminbird, and he
is good to go.

[BCLII]

200/83khz frequencies are only for conventional 2-d sonar.
455/800khz frequencies are only for down/side imaging.

I guess Doc leaves his 2-d frequency set at 200khz.
Then, in the transducer select menu, he chooses
Dual 50/200 for the Airmar, or
High-Def Sidesan for the Humminbird, and he
is good to go.

So from under the Sonar Menu Tab one selects 200khz from beam select window, then from the Transducer select,one highlights the High Def sidescan. then uses the Humminbird ROCKER switch to go from SI/DI to the 200khz Airmar? One Doesnot have to go to the Sonar Window Tab and change anything?

[ITGEEK]

Keep the Sonar Beam select at 200khz, regardless of
what transducer you are using.

If you want to use the Humminbird Transducer:
  Select High-Def Sidescan from the Transducer Select Menu.
  Push the rocker switch to select the Humminbird Transducer.

If you want to use the Airmar Transducer:
  Select Dual 50/200 from the Transducer Select Menu.
  Push the rocker switch to select the Airmar Transducer.

Doc says that the only thing different is that the Airmar is more
powerful, so you will need less sensitivity on the Sonar menu
than for the Humminbird.  He says everything else is the same.

So, no, you won't have to change anything else (other than
sensitivity) under the Sonar menu.

[BCLII]

Well I see no need for the rocker switch then if I have to go into the Sonar tab window each time anyway to change Transducer select from Hi-Def Sidescan to Dual 50/200 while switching from one transducer to the other. If I'm in that window already, I'll change the Beam select to 200khz from 200khz/83khz each time I switch transducers. That saves me $53 for the rocker, which seams to only save me the one step in the Beam select?

[ITGEEK]

By using the switch, you don't have to unplug, and
re-plug in different transducers.

All of that plugging/unplugging will take it's toll on your connectors.
It might loosen something up.
Humminbird connectors are not known for being robust.

[Humminbird_Greg]

BCLII,
You would only need the TS3 Transducer Switch if you wanted to use the 50kHz side of the Airmar transducer.
Set the Beam Select to the 200kHz setting and leave it there.  Unless you rest the menus it should stay there (be aware that when you update the software in your Humminbird unit that this menu may default back to the 200/83kHz setting).

[BCLII]

By using the switch, you don't have to unplug, and
re-plug in different transducers.

All of that plugging/unplugging will take it's toll on your connectors.
It might loosen something up.
Humminbird connectors are not known for being robust.

I would be using the SI/DB Y-cable, no need to unplug each time!

[BCLII]

BCLII,
You would only need the TS3 Transducer Switch if you wanted to use the 50kHz side of the Airmar transducer.
Set the Beam Select to the 200kHz setting and leave it there.  Unless you rest the menus it should stay there (be aware that when you update the software in your Humminbird unit that this menu may default back to the 200/83kHz setting).

Thanks Greg, you cleared up the point/benefit of using the switch instead of the SI/DB Y-cable!

[ITGEEK]

That's great.
Then,  you would have the best of both worlds.
Humminbird Side imaging, together with powerful Airmar 2-D.
With no physical switching.