Topic: Humminbird to Launch TRUE Down Imaging for 2011!

[Fishton]

As announced by BBG Marine -

These are the new DI models I show pending delivery. Pretty exciting to see Humminbird going head to head with the other guys. You gotta love competition.

570 DI
See more of what's down there for less. Select Humminbird 500 Series models now offer best-in-class, HD screen resolution along with picture-like Down Imaging Sonar.
Timber, rocks, even fish - watch it all take shape on crystal-clear,full-color 4.5" or 5" monochrome displays. With screens that size,it's easy to take advantage of versatile DualBeam PLUS Sonar and exclusive Humminbird SwitchFire technology. We're talking a beam sensitive enough to track a jig down to 70 feet and separate fish as close as 2.5" apart. Find your way using built-in UniMap or up theante with optional Lakemaster and Navionics cartography. Get allthis technology in a convenient in-dash mount, or use our Tilt & Swivel Disconnect Mounting System. With the 500 Series, big things are bound to happen!

5" Display
640V x 320H, 16 Level Grayscale
Down Imaging.
455kHz / 86 degrees @ -10db
800kHz / 55 degrees @ -10db
Single Beam
w/ SwitchFire.
200kHz / 20 degrees @ -10db
Depth: 250ft (DI), 1000 ft
2400 W (PTP), 300 W (RMS)

***********************************

596c HD DI Combo
See more of what's down there for less. Select Humminbird 500 Series models now offer best-in-class, HD screen resolution along with picture-like Down Imaging Sonar.
Timber, rocks, even fish - watch it all take shape on crystal-clear,full-color 4.5" or 5" monochrome displays. With screens that size,it's easy to take advantage of versatile DualBeam PLUS Sonar and exclusive Humminbird SwitchFire technology. We're talking a beam sensitive enough to track a jig down to 70 feet and separate fish as close as 2.5" apart. Find your way using built-in UniMap or up theante with optional Lakemaster and Navionics cartography. Get allthis technology in a convenient in-dash mount, or use our Tilt & Swivel Disconnect Mounting System. With the =500 Series, big things are bound to happen!

5" Display
640V x 640H, 256 Color
Down Imaging
455kHz / 86 degrees @ -10db
800kHz / 55 degrees @ -10db
Single Beam w/ SwitchFire
200kHz / 20 degrees @ -10db
Depth: 250ft (DI), 1000 ft

************************************

597ci HD DI Combo
See more of what's down there for less. Select Humminbird 500 Series models now offer best-in-class, HD screen resolution along with picture-like Down Imaging Sonar.
Timber, rocks, even fish - watch it all take shape on crystal-clear,full-color 4.5" or 5" monochrome displays. With screens that size,it's easy to take advantage of versatile DualBeam PLUS Sonar and exclusive Humminbird SwitchFire technology. We're talking a beam sensitive enough to track a jig down to 70 feet and separate fish as close as 2.5" apart. Find your way using built-in UniMap or up theante with optional Lakemaster and Navionics cartography. Get allthis technology in a convenient in-dash mount, or use our Tilt & Swivel Disconnect Mounting System. With the 500 Series, big things are bound to happen!

5" Display
640V x 640H, 256 Color
Down Imaging
455kHz / 86 degrees @ -10db
800kHz / 55 degrees @ -10db
Single Beam w/ SwitchFire
200kHz / 20 degrees @ -10db
Depth: 250ft (DI), 1000 ft
4000 W (PTP), 500 W (RMS)
50 Channel GPS
Humminbird UniMap
Single SD Card Slot

*************************************

788ci HD DI Combo
For crystal-clear results even in the murkiest water, reach for the powerhouse, High Definition Humminbird 700 Series, featuring a 5" diagonal screen, amazing 640V x 640H pixel clarity and unbeatable color and contrast. Packed to the gills with technology, this high-resolution fishfinder boasts an array of advanced features that will have you on the fish in no time.
With exclusive Humminbird SwitchFire, Side Imaging and Down Imaging Technology, you have more fishfinding options than ever. SwitchFire Sonar lets you choose your underwater view, see every detail or just the returns you want. It's the first sonar that adapts with your fishing conditions.Programmable preset buttons put your favorite views at your fingertips,and dual card slots provide top-notch flexibility on the water. Mount it in-dash, or with our Tilt & Swivel Quick Disconnect Mounting System. Connect to another Humminbird fishfinder for sharing of sonar, GPS and waypoints at blazing Ethernet speeds. There's no doubt: the 700 Series brings it all into focus.

5" Display
640V x 640H, 256 Color
Down Imaging
455kHz / 86 degrees @ -10db
800kHz/55 degrees @ -10db
Single Beam w/ SwitchFire
200kHz / 20 degrees @ -10db
Depth: 250ft (DI) / 1000 ft
4000 W (PTP), 500 W (RMS)
50 Channel GPS
Humminbird ContourXD
Dual SD Card Slots /Upgradeable Software

*********************************
MRP Prices are as follows:

Humminbird 570 DI -$299.99
Humminbird 596 HD DI -$549.99
Himminbird 597ci HD DI Combo -$649.99
Humminbird 788ci HD Di Combo -$799.99

[FuzzyGrub]

I saw this but missed that the transducer were down firing only.  I saw the 455/86 degrees and my brain saw 2X like the SI. 

[raricker]

Hi guys,
Did you also note that the 2D is only 20 Degrees. My guess is that were getting a new transducer (to support a lower pricepoint) for these new for 2011 units. Its just my guess based on the specs.

Take care,
Roger

[stuklose]

I ordered a 798c Si on Monday and i received an email saying it is discontinued and that there is a HD version coming. After a bit of looking i found the HD version and its product number but i couldn't find if stores have stock yet.

Can anyone shed any light on this?

Stu Klose

[Humminbird_Greg]

Stu,
I don’t think that any of the stores have the “HD” version 798 units yet.  There should still be some of the older non-HD version 798 units in stores though.


Roger,
While there may or may not be a new transducer (I cannot get confirmation one way or the other yet), the 20 degree 2D sonar specification for a 500 series unit is normal and what we have been using for years.  Typically a 500 series unit is one of two varieties.  Either it is a true single 200kHz sonar only or it will have the 2D 200kHz sonar along with Fish ID Symbol data from the wider 83kHz sonar (and yet still be listed as a single 200kHz sonar unit).  I think though that the 788ci HD unit will have 200/83kHz DualBeam Plus sonar as the current 788ci does; so I think that is a typo on someone’s part.

[CHOOhonets]

Does anyone know whether Humminbird is going to release a new model instead of 998c SI in 2011? Or they only enhance Down Imaging for 500 and 700 series?

[Bob B]

Seems like Humminbird isn't ready to let us know yet.  I would like to know also so I can decide what to buy.

[Humminbird_Greg]

As far as I know (I have not seen anything official in writing from the powers that be yet) we will continue to make the 998c Si units as is.  I do not know if there will be a software upgrade, hardware upgrade or accessory that will work with any of the current units that will be like the Di in the 500 and 700 series.  At this point I do not even know that they are different for sure.  My guess would be “yes” but that is only speculation on my part as we typically would have features in the lower end units available in the higher end units – although there have been exceptions to this (reference the Circular Flasher View in the 700 series units that is not available in the 800, 800 and 1100 series units).

With the trade shows starting there should be some better information starting to get out.  I am told that there is information on the Humminbird Facebook page but I had to close my account so I do not have access to this.

[Bob B]

Thanks for the info Greg. 

[Humminbird_Greg]

I got a copy of the 2011 catalog yesterday and have found that there will be a new transducer for the new 500 and 700 series “Di” units.  It is the XNT-9-Di-T transducer for the transom with an XP-9-Di-T for inside-the-hull mounting (a trolling motor version will be the XNT-9-Di-T with our standard trolling motor adapter bracket).  This transducer is not listed as an optional transducer for any of the Si units (797, 798, 898, 981, 987, 997, 998, 1157, 1158).

[Bob B]

So, reading between the lines, it sounds like the SI units will not get true down imaging for 2011 unless they have a different part # for the side imaging transducer.

Do you know if the 798 will be getting an ethernet connection?

[Wayne P.]

The new 798

[Bob B]

Just looked at the Hummindbird store and they are taking pre-orders for the 798ci HD si. 
The specs don't say anything about the ethernet, but maybe because the software still isn't supporting it?

The 898 is really tempting to get the 2" larger display for a couple hundred more, but no internal antenna which adds another $150 to buy the external antenna.  I really like the internal antenna for the way I plan to use the unit.

Wayne, do you find the smaller screen to be much of a problem when utilizing side imaging?

[Wayne P.]

Bob,  the external antenna is included in the purchase.
There is no additional $150 cost.

I have no problem with seeing the dual SI images with my 798 especially when I have it on the console. It is harder to see small returns (fish, etc.) when I have it on the bow (old eyes), but mainly I use it for positioning the boat on bottom features while fishing.
The physical screen size is about 3 5/8" X 3 5/8"
I have ordered the 1198 for the bow to lessen the eye strain though.
 
With the 898 having the data boxes on the left side of the screen, the overall SI view is not much larger than the 798.

The two main reasons I purchased the 798ci SI was the screen pixel count and the internal GPS antenna. The external GPS antenna version 798c SI is the same price.

[Humminbird_Greg]

The new “HD” 798ci units will be Ethernet capable.  I don’t know if there will be a software update to turn this on or not though as we have not shipped any yet.  If the catalog is correct than all of these will be internal GPS models: 798ci HD Si Combo.


Okay, the title of this post has been bothering me.  What is “TRUE Down Imaging” other than another marketing term?

[mendota]

Actually, I think we were hoping you would tell us....

Since HB is offering a sonar with DI, but no SI, we have to assume that a dedicated transducer is being used for the DI, rather than a mix of the SI beams.

Which is what we all presume Lowrance does.

I'm still fascinated by how both companies are now pushing the DI part, when it is very clear that DI as implemented by both is pretty much a gimmick.  I mean, what kind of an image is it really, when there is no left and right to it?  It's just a high-detail, poor contrast version of the 2D sonar in most cases.......

[Daniele_Mari]

Wayne you are very good in taking snapshots.

[Wayne P.]

Thanks Daniele, I'm just lucky. I don't plan the snapshots, I am just navigating while fishing and happen to notice stuff on the display and take a snapshot if it looks interesting.

[Humminbird_Greg]

“I'm still fascinated by how both companies are now pushing the DI part, when it is very clear that DI as implemented by both is pretty much a gimmick.  I mean, what kind of an image is it really, when there is no left and right to it?  It's just a high-detail, poor contrast version of the 2D sonar in most cases.......”

Although I am a Humminbird Employee; that’s exactly what I think as well Mendota.  Yes we will have a new transducer for the Di units and it will be only a single beam by the looks of the specifications.  But its just a very wide (left-right) but thin (front to rear) 2D sonar beam that won’t show sonar signal strength like most color 2D sonar does.  I feel like we are taking a step backwards into the days of 1989 to 1991 here as we produced the TCR 101, TCD ID-1 and Platinum ID 120 units back than.  These were for the most part monochrome units that used a 455kHz transducer that had a 40 degree wide beam that was also somewhat narrow front to rear.  Not as wide or narrow as what the specs say our upcoming Di units but still the same basic information was displayed.  Di isn’t even a poor man’s Si sonar as there is not directional data displayed other than “below the transducer”.  With Si sonar you can tell whether something was to the right or left of your boat.  I just don’t get it, so someone please point out to me what I am missing with Di sonar versus Si Sonar.

[Wayne P.]

I like DI but only when used in conjunction with 2D. and only with the 798/797 units where one view is displayed above the other for easy comparison.
With 2D, everything within the sonar pulse cone is displayed from the time is enters the cone until it is out of the cone. That is why the arches are
drawn.
With DI, the sonar pulse is narrow from front to back as an object is being displayed. That narrow pulse will show the true shape of a return since the object is not in the pulse as long as it is in 2D. That in itself will help the user determine what is actually shown.
Here is an example of some bass feeding on small shad/crappie next to some small submerged bushes. Another lucky shot that produced two bass after this snaphot was saved. Copy this image to your computer and display it full screen so you can see the detail of the bass. This feature has helped me catch several hunderd bass this year. I see no value in a DI-only unit.

[Bob B]

Wow, what an interesting discussion.  Thanks for the info.  I also thought Lowrance had a dedicated element in their transducer for down imaging and Humminbird might be considering that on the SI units.  Guess I could get the 898 and mount the antenna on top of the unit for portability but the I really like the view that Wayne is showing with the 2D above the DI. 
Great snapshots Wayne.

[Wayne P.]

My first snapshot when the DI software was released in January convinced me of it's usefullness. I have operated the 998 also with the side by side DI/2D and MUCH prefer those views vertically.
This is a school of baitfish swimming by on a 998:

[Wayne P.]

When in very thick vegetation, 2D is just shows a blob since the beam sees so much at a time. With DI, just about each stalk of the vegetation is displayed.
This shot is passing over a point with the vegetation on it:

[Bob B]

I see what you mean, the DI snapshot for the 898 is really interesting, but having to look back and forth makes it much more difficult to match up.

Greg, do you know if the new 798 will still utilize an external antenna if desired?  Are there any plans to make the views more customizable on all SI units?

[Humminbird_Greg]

Amazing pictures there Wayne P!
Guess I have been using Si too long to want to give up knowing whether something was to the left or right of the boat versus just knowing that it was under the boat.  I see the value of Di but only if it derived from a two transducer system as you cover a much wider area of the water column that way.


Bob B,
I believe that the 798ci HD Si will still be able to utilize an external GPS Receiver but without seeing a manual or having one in my hands I’m making an educated guess here.  All of the other 700 series internal GPS units that we have made can do this so I don’t now why we would change.

I don’t know what is planned for any of the units.  I do know that we try to implement features and functions that our Customers want (this is why we are coming out with the non-Si Di units).  I have heard that there may be a few asked for features in the next software release for the Si units but cannot say what they are at this time. 

[Bob B]

Thanks Greg, I appreciate your "frank" responses.

[Bob B]

Greg, when you talk about a 2 transducer system, are you referring to the 2 elements in a side imaging transducer or another setup utilizing 2 separate transducers?

I have seen a few references to transducer Y cables and don't yet fully understand the nuances involved.  Where would I find the best writup on utilizing multiple transducers and the different frequencies involved? 
Would there be any differences between the new 798 and the 898 in utilizing multiple transducers?
Is it possible to shoot through the hull on an aluminum boat?

Guess I still have a lot to learn about transducers.

[Wayne P.]

Bob, the use of two separate transducers is done on fiberglass hulls that don't get good on-plane 2D performace with a transom mount transducer.
With the 2 transducer setup, a regular dual frequency 83/200 khz transducer is expoxied inside the hull and the SI transducer is mounted on the transom (above the hull bottom for protection from hitting objects). The connection of the two transducers is done with a Y cable that disconnects the 2D frequencies in the SI transducer and connects the in-hull 2D transducer.
 Another method of connection for the 2 transducer is with a switch that connects either the SI transducer or the 2D transducer to the display, but adding a switch just adds another potential failure point to the system.

Any unit can be rigged with the 2 transducer setup.

[FuzzyGrub]

I agree with Wayne on the DI.  After initial thoughts of gimmick, found the over/under view to be of great help deciphering what  here.  The 2D draws your attention, and the DI provides additional details. 

[Wayne P.]

One of the advantages of the Humminbird DI is the capability of changing the coverage area (narrow/medium/wide) to limit or include the amount of bottom you want scanned much like choosing the 83 khz or 200 khz 2D frequencies for coverage width. I mostly use the medium or narrow DI setting to focus on the least area under the boat since I already know what is in the area buy using SI.
 

[Humminbird_Greg]

Sorry Bob, I meant a two element system not two transducers.
What are you looking for information-wise with multiple transducer usage?  Are you wanting to connect multiple transducers to a 798 or 898 unit?  Most folks that do this are using an inside-the-hull 2D transducer for higher speed depth readings and just using the Si/Di sonar when they are off plane and moving slowly like Wayne P said.  The 798 and 898 both use transducers in the same manner.

It is possible to shoot through the hull of an aluminum boat but there is a lot of signal loss and distortion involved so it usually does not work very well although some have had success.  RadarSonics makes a product called the AlumaDucer that was designed for shooting through the hull of an aluminum boat but I would caution you that I have heard of more failures than successes with it.  This is due to the way that air bubbles flow across the aluminum boat hulls, so you would still have to be able to locate the AlumaDucer in an area that is free of air bubbles.

[Bob B]

Thanks for all the good info guys.

[Ranchdip]

FIRST POST HERE.  I'm about as green as they come in regard to SI so please be kind.  lol!  I hope these questions are okay to post in this particualr thread.


Anyway, I've been doing some research in regard to the different images that both Lowrance and Hummingbird offer in regard to SI.  I have a few questions:

1.  Is this new DI unit better than Lowrance's down image?

2.  Can the newer imaging DI technology be used with existing newer units like the 989csi or the 1197csi by buying the new DI xducer?

3.  I was seriously thinking about buying a 1197cSI instead of the HDS10 w/LSS1 because of cost... However, I won't purchase the Hummingbird if the image quality of the scanned image isn't up to par with Lowrance's offering.  IS technology on the way via a xducer & software update for the current high-end Hummingbird models that would compete with Lowrance?

Please don't flame me!  I've seen many side by side images of the different units and I honestly believe IMO that Lowrance has the upper hand in regards to image detail.

Thanks so much!
 

[Humminbird_Greg]

I don’t reply to “us vs. them” posts and cannot comment about future hardware/software updates (unless the information has already been released to the public), but I will comment on question #2:

The 898c Si, 998c Si and 1197c Si units are set up to use two Si sonar beams to make the Di images that you see.  Using the new single beam Di transducer would be taking a step backwards technology wise as a single beam Di sonar unit is uncapable of giving directional information.  All you know is that the fish/structure was under the transducer and within XX number of feet of the transducer.  By using a two element system you can determine whether the object was to the right or left of the transducer or even directly underneath the transducer due to it’s Si sonar capability.  Why would you want to give that up?

By the way, the new single beam Di sonar is only being offered on products that cost less than our least expensive Si/Di sonar unit (798).

[DougV]

Check out these Images from 1197c....

http://www.bbcboards.net/zerothread?id=600830

Here's the Images from Mike Bucca:

Took these from this morning..  Notice how these fish are over a channel in every shot.  Very typical for my lake.  They relate to the channel as structure even though they are suspending above it.  Crisp enough??   :wink:














Need better than this and this is with current 1197c technology???

[Ranchdip]

I think I've been misdirected.  The images I saw that led me to this point were by a Lowrance Pro staff member.  I see now that Hummingbirds images are just as good.  I'm at a cross roads as I'm thinking of switching over to Hummingbird after 20+ years using Lowrance products.  So..... are the new units coming out next year worth the wait or should I just dive in now?  Tournaments start up for us in Texas in January.  I'll need my new units installed around that time.  Thanks!

[Humminbird_Greg]

That depends Ranchdip: which units or what sized units were you looking at?  The only new large units coming out are the 1158c and 1198c Si units.  If you are looking at a smaller Si unit than you can go ahead and buy the 998c Si, 898c Si or 798c Si (or 798ci Si) unit now as they are not changing for 2011.  Most of the changes are occurring in the non-Si units and any new software features built into the 998, 898, and 798 units can be downloaded into these units when the software updates come out.  So it really depends on what units you are looking at getting as to whether you should wait or not.

[Ranchdip]

Thanks for the heads up!