Author Topic: Mounting an transducer Nitro Z-7, best loaction (Read 44149 times)

bigbass · « **on:** April 25, 2011, 03:28:25 AM »

I have a Nitro Z7 with no jackplate. I have HB 1198c. Please let me know where should I mount the transducerr?

sonar2000 · « **Reply #1 on:** April 25, 2011, 09:12:55 AM »

Check the gallery section for photos. there is several for the nitro...
You can also enter a search in the tab at the top of the menu..
Chuck

bigbass · « **Reply #2 on:** April 26, 2011, 04:54:18 PM »

Thanks....

bigbass · « **Reply #3 on:** April 29, 2011, 11:41:14 AM »

I am not sure if I got the transducer locations right, hope it works.....

bigbass · « **Reply #4 on:** April 29, 2011, 11:42:42 AM »

more pics..

bigbass · « **Reply #5 on:** May 03, 2011, 11:19:16 PM »

Guys, need some expert advise please. Took the boat out on Sunday for the fist run and have the following problems.

DI -- not working, jumping between 400 feet to 10 feet.
SI -- working on the right side but not on the left side(showing lot of bubble)
2d sonar --- same as DI, jumping between 1000 ft to 10 feet.

Depth show more than 1000 feet all the time(staging/ driving). I've been testing this setup for about two hours and the DI & 2D sonor only work with the right depth 4 times.

I have an in dash finder(Lowrance 5 in), should I turn this off when I use the HB unit?

Did I setup the xduser angle wrong? should I point it a bit more downward?

I am new to this unit, any suggestions is much appreciated.

Thanks

Philip

sonar2000 · « **Reply #6 on:** May 04, 2011, 09:15:48 AM »

Philip, could you take and post pics of the installation. It sure seems like you have a location mounting issue.
I dont think the lowrance is interferring but any thing is possible.
Look forward to the pics.
Chuck

bigbass · « **Reply #7 on:** May 04, 2011, 09:25:25 AM »

Thanks Chuck..

Please see attached pics. The xduser is mounted on the right side of the boat on the step hull..

Again, thank you so much for your help...

sonar2000 · « **Reply #8 on:** May 04, 2011, 11:10:16 AM »

I should have looked closer as you had already posted pictures.
The transducer looks a bit tilted left but could just be an illuision.
Possibly a bit of upward tilt but hard to tell from the straight on back view..
Would hate to think it could be the unit or transducer.
Do you have an interlink connected or other attachments.,
Could you swap with a friend.....maybe the head unit itsself...
I think you said this happens whether on plane or on troll..
Chuck

bigbass · « **Reply #9 on:** May 04, 2011, 11:25:53 AM »

Thanks Chuck...

Possibly a bit of upward tilt but hard to tell from the straight on back view..(Should I tilt it downward a bit, say 1 or 2 degree?)

Would hate to think it could be the unit or transducer.( I really hope not....

Do you have an interlink connected or other attachments ( No, Just the xduser & GPS only)

Could you swap with a friend.....maybe the head unit itsself...(no, I do not have a fiend that has HB yet, I am the first one to test it out)

I think you said this happens whether on plane or on troll..( yes, correct)

One things that I do not understand is why the whole stup did work couple times with the right readings. Thats lead me to think the xduser angle might be the problem.

Philip

bigbass · « **Reply #10 on:** May 04, 2011, 12:08:29 PM »

By the way, the Lowrance unit is using 200 kHz Frequency, same as HB.

I think I need to turn it off when I use the HB.

PHili[

bigbass · « **Reply #11 on:** May 04, 2011, 04:15:11 PM »

Nitro manufacture suggestion... see pics.

Roddy · « **Reply #12 on:** May 05, 2011, 01:30:00 AM »

Hi Philip; From looking at the pix the xducer looks at an angle left to right.
The xducer looks a bit to closr to the center line of the boat. Min of 15" between C/L and xducer.
Check fwd/aft angle, set to "0".

Good luck and Enjoy Roddy

bigbass · « **Reply #13 on:** May 05, 2011, 09:45:48 AM »

Thanks Roddy...

You suggested "Check fwd/aft angle, set to "0". Can you explain more please..

Sorry, i am new to this.

Philip

sonar2000 · « **Reply #14 on:** May 05, 2011, 02:14:04 PM »

Philip, the transducer should be mounted for optimum performance when the transducer is horizontal with the water.
Making this happen is somewhat trying as it can be influenced by several factors.
What the 0 angle means is that the transducer is level to the water when the boat is in the water.
Load placement and distribution, speed, hull type are some of the influences and the bigfoot HDSI transducer is very sensitive to all of the influences.
It takes patience and trial to get the best.
For some it requires two transducers. one for trolling and one for speed. A lot have opted for thru the hull for speed.
Roddy, Hope I did not step on your toes..

.
Chuck

Roddy · « **Reply #15 on:** May 05, 2011, 03:47:58 PM »

Chuck; What toes!

bigbass · « **Reply #16 on:** May 05, 2011, 07:08:29 PM »

Thanks Guys.....

Learning a lot here. I guess in my setup, it does not matter becuase the xduser will alway be "in the water" becuase it is mounted on the setp hull, right?

Philip

Humminbird_Greg · « **Reply #17 on:** May 06, 2011, 12:27:29 PM »

Phillip,
Sorry that I have not been around much to help but my normal job has been such a PITA lately – they are actually requiring me to do some work!

First: yes from what you have been describing it is a very real possibility that the Lowrance unit is causing sonar-to-sonar interference, which could cause the 2D sonar to jump around (and therefore the Di sonar). Try testing it again with that unit turned off. If that is what was causing this and you just want to run both at the same time; try turning on and up the Noise Filter menu on your 1198c Si unit.

As for the transducer installation:
At what speed do the bubbles show up in the left Si beam and can you live with it working at this speed or lower?
I ask because if you cannot than you have two choices:
1.) Move the transducer to a location that works for both the left and right Si sonar.
2.) Install a second XHS-9-HDSi-180-T transducer in the same location on the left side of the boat and use an AS-Si-LR-Y cable to connect them both to the 1198c unit.
These bubbles are probably coming from the left side of the hull so there isn’t anything you can do to prevent them so you have to position the transducer(s) so that they are close enough for them to get filtered out. Mounting the transducer in the center or more towards the center of the hull may work and it may not – you will not know until you try. Now if the bubbles only show up at faster than trolling speeds than I would not worry about it. As boat speeds above about 6 mph the Si image isn’t as useful as it cannot scan fast enough to keep up with the boat and the image will loose detail.

If you installed the HDSi transducer where you say Nitro recommends, than you would have to make sure it is low enough so the left and right Si beams are below those sponsons. You would still have to deal with the bubble issue though (unless this only happens at faster than trolling speeds).

I would seriously consider installing an XP-9-20 inside-the-hull DualBeam transducer and an AS-Si-DB-Y transducer splitter cable for high-speed 2D sonar readings. Inside-the-hull transducer mounting is THE best transducer location for water depth readings at high boat speeds for fiberglass boats. You should be able to pick both up for under $100 (US).

My $0.02 (US) on transducer angle:
All transducer angles should be considered while the boat is moving at the speeds you will be using the Si sonar. Si sonar is what you paid the extra bucks for, right?
- when viewed from behind; the transducer should be level (not twisted clockwise or counterclockwise) with the surface of the water.
- when viewed from the side of the transducer; the bottom ‘face’ of the transducer should be level with the surface of the water. Some lower the back end of the transducer to get better depth readings at high boat speeds but this can skew the Si images a bit.

bigbass · « **Reply #18 on:** May 06, 2011, 01:13:32 PM »

HI Greg,

Thank you so much for your info.( very details and useful). I will give it a try tomorrow morning with the Loawrance sonor off.

Regarding the left SI bubble issue, I had my boat running in 4-5 kts in Shallow water. I haven't try to use it in deeper water. i will try deeper water tomorrow.

I Emailed HB service dept. on Wednesday and here is the answers I got form Robin @ HB.

Dear Mr. Lee,

Thank you for contacting Humminbird. We appreciate your interest in our products.

After having reviewed your pictures, it would seem that your transducer is mounted to close to your motor and this is causing cavitation, which is giving you the bubbles on your side imaging and possibly the erroneous depth readings.

First of all, I would ask the question, do you have a second, in hull transducer for high speed readings? [Lowarance 96TX(200hz) which comes with the boat purchase.]
Is the unit giving you erroneous depth readings at speeds of 2-10mph or merely at high speeds? [both situations( high& low speed)]
In regard to the Lowrance unit, it maybe giving interference, I would advise turning it off while the Humminbird is on to ascertain if this is the case.
I had a specialist review the mounting position of the transducer and the suggestion was that the transducer might POSSIBLY need to be moved to the right at the bunker. Of course this presents a problem in that your transducer might be damaged while putting the boat on the trailer, as the roller is right in that area. The suggestion was to try this area with a double sided marine tape to see if it would work. I would not recommend this without testing first and also would not recommend this until you have answered the above questions and made the determination as to whether or not you are getting interference from the other sonar, or losing these depths at higher rates of speed only.

I will let you know the findings....

Again, thank you so much for your help, really appreciated.

Philip

Humminbird_Greg · « **Reply #19 on:** May 06, 2011, 01:39:27 PM »

bigbass,
You are getting air bubbles at only 4-5 knots (about 4-5 mph)? You will need to think about either moving the HDSi transducer towards the center or installing a second HDSi transducer than. Shallow or deep water should produce the same results for this.

I disagree with Robin about the cavitation as it looks to me like the motor and propeller are aft of the transducer when in the running position. I think that it is air bubbles streaming off the left side of the hull causing the left Si beam reading issues. If you can though; post a picture looking across the area of the hull (you will have to get on your belly to take this picture) where the transducer is mounted but with the motor down all the way. Take one from each side of the boat please.

She was right about possible damage from the trailer bunk while loading your boat though. This could be a good reason to move the transducer to the Nitro suggested location. You will need to add the XP-9-20 and AS-Si-DB-Y cable to get higher speed water depth readings though but it would protect the more expensive HDSi transducer. She is right on about testing the new transducer location using a VHB Marine Grade double-sided tape (3M makes some good stuff for this) but do so only at low boat speeds.

bigbass · « **Reply #20 on:** May 06, 2011, 02:01:26 PM »

Greg,

Yes, I am running the boat at 4-5 MPH. I will take some pic tomorrow and post it.

Thnaks a lot...

Philip

bigbass · « **Reply #21 on:** May 08, 2011, 11:05:17 PM »

Hi Greg,

I was out on my home lake today to test out your suggestions and below is my findings. I forgot to save the pic to the SD card. I will have some pics next week.

1) You are absolutely right about sonar-to-sonar interference. Once I turn off the Lowrance unit , I start getting the right depth reading in slow speed(under 5 MPH).I have changed my unit setting from KM to Mile while I am doing the test.

2) The marine mechanic help me to title the transducer down 8 degree and it seem that it help on the depth readings. One thing I notice is the depth reading still shows between 50 to 300 ft periodically and the depth reading box is blinking. I would say 80 % of the time i am getting the right readings in slow speed.

3) I am still getting between 75 to 300 ft depth readings in high speed.(35 MPH GPS speed)

4) SI function is working now, no bubbles issues anymore. It is still too early for the grass to show up in my home lake but I do see clear bridge base while I pass by the highway bridge.

Question:-

1) should I ask the marine mechanic to adjust the transducer angle down a bit( say 4 more degrees) to see if I got stable depth readings in slow speed? I don't want to start loosing the SI image after making this adjustments.

2) Can I install the XP-9-20 inside-the-hull DualBeam transducer myself, is it difficult to do? Also, can i install XP-9-20 beside the Lowrance in-hull transducer? I cannot afford to pay another $400 to the marine mechanic to install the in-hull transducer.

I am sorry that I have so many questions for you...

Thanks a lot for your help and much appreciated...

Philip

Humminbird_Greg · « **Reply #22 on:** May 09, 2011, 11:47:32 AM »

Phillip,
You don’t want the transducer angled down more than about 5 degrees from the surface of the water. I would instead look at installing the XP-9-20 transducer. These are not technically that hard to install but they can be a large PITA as you may have to remove the batteries and oil sump to do so. On some boats the gas tank has to be removed as well. All depends on how hard it is to get to the bilge area of your boat. Just be sure and test it at high boat speeds before the epoxy gets mixed for installation. That way you know that it will work in that location.

bigbass · « **Reply #23 on:** May 09, 2011, 11:25:35 PM »

Greg,

Thanks for the info.

I think I am screw either ways. I will Email Nitro tomorrow and ask them where should I install the in-hull transducer and I will try to install it myself.

Thank you so much for your help.

Philip

Humminbird_Greg · « **Reply #24 on:** May 11, 2011, 12:25:30 PM »

Philip,
Regardless of where Nitro says where to install the inside-the-hull transducer: you need to test the location before even thinking about mixing any epoxy! I have seen and heard from many who have had installed or installed an inside-the-hull transducer without testing the location first. The result was that they had to buy a new transducer and have the location tested before it was epoxied in. I have some experience in installing these types of transducer without testing and they not work…

More than likely they will say in the sump (where the bilge pump is).

bigbass · « **Reply #25 on:** May 11, 2011, 12:40:08 PM »

Greg,

Understood and thanks for the tips. It seems that the marine machanic is not familiar with Nitro boat at all. I just want to give him a rough idea as where the in-hull transducer should be install so that he won't be spending a lot of time looking for the right spot. He charge me $93 dollars per hour for labour...

I will specify tell him not to epoxy and install the transducer without testing.

Thanks.

Philip

Humminbird_Greg · « **Reply #26 on:** May 11, 2011, 01:58:50 PM »

Yikes! $93 an hour! I might have to open up my own sonar installation shop for that kind of money!

Always have them water test the inside-the-hull transducers before installing them. It is the only way to know that you are not wasting both money and time.

bigbass · « **Reply #27 on:** May 11, 2011, 03:40:59 PM »

Yes, 93 bugs per hours my friend.....

Thanks... will do...

bigbass · « **Reply #28 on:** May 13, 2011, 10:40:11 AM »

Hi Greg,

According to the marine mechanic, he cannot reach to the spot( Under it the Gas tank) that he can install the XP-9-20.

Can I get the external model (xnt-9-20) instead of the in-hull?

Please let me know...

Philip

Humminbird_Greg · « **Reply #29 on:** May 13, 2011, 12:12:34 PM »

Yes you can install the XNT-9-20 transducer but if the Si transducer is still where your pictures show than the XNT-9-20 will interfere with the left Si sonar beam. I am assuming here that you will have to install the XNT-9-20 transducer around the livewell intakes and drain hole for high-speed depth readings. That is one option you have.

Another (expensive) option is to remove the gas tank and install the XP-9-20 transducer. The biggest problem with that will be that you will need to remove the gas tank, sand a location to test the transducer in, re-install the gas tank, take it back out again and epoxy the XP-9-20 in place or possibly try another location for the XP-9-20…

Third option here that I don’t know if it will work but it would be a lot easier to try: use an XSO-9-20-T transducer:
http://store.humminbird.com/products/313992/XSO_9_20_T
You should be able to install this yourself. We’ve installed some of these on boats that were used down in Louisiana which run through mud and oyster bars and did not have one fail.

bigbass · « **Reply #30 on:** May 13, 2011, 02:44:39 PM »

Hi Greg,
Thanks.... I will go with the XNT-9-20 transducer because the marine mechanic is familiar of this unit.

I will ask him to install the unit on the left side of the boat to prevent sonar interference, around the livewell intakes and drain hole.

I will also ask him to adjust the SI transducer back to 0 degree instead of 8 degree downward.

Two questions for you please:-
1) Once I have XNT-9-20 installed, only the 2D sonar signals will feed off form this unit ? DI & SI images will still use the big transducer, right?

2) Occasionally the HDSI mounting brackets kick up when I am in high speed. Do you know if HB has another mounting bracket that does not have the kick-up function, or should I ask the mechanic proxy it ?

Thanks a million...

Philip

Humminbird_Greg · « **Reply #31 on:** May 14, 2011, 09:27:58 AM »

Philip,

1) Right. When using the AS-Si-DB-Y cable; the 2D sonar comes only from the DualBeam transducer all of the time. Water temperature, the Si and Di sonar come from the Side Imaging transducer.

2) No, there is not other bracket for the HDSi transducer that we sell. What you need to do is kick the transducer upwards and “adjust the tension” on the ‘ears’ of the metal bracket (aka: bends the sides of the metal bracket towards each other so that it takes more force to kick the transducer up).

Now, will that million be coming in small bills or will this be an electronic transfer?

bigbass · « **Reply #32 on:** May 15, 2011, 11:48:17 PM »

I am planning to install a 989 in fornt of the boat later... I will have more questions for you if you don't mind.

Philip

Humminbird_Greg · « **Reply #33 on:** May 16, 2011, 03:18:52 PM »

That will be another million than!

Send me a direct e-mail if you need to as I don't always get on here.

bigbass · « **Reply #34 on:** May 23, 2011, 12:16:05 AM »

Hi Greg,
I just don’t know when this nightmare will going to ends (another $300 for the second transducer installation). I am having the same issues after I have the XNT 9 20 transducers installed with AS-Si-DB-Y cable.

In low speed ( below 10kph), the depth reading become more stable but still lock up with 1000 feet sometime. Also, I will see the depth readout box “blinking” with a random fix depth readings sometime and I have to “drive” the boat a bit to get back the right readings( 4 to 10 feet).

In high speed (above 10kph), I will get more than 100 feet all the time and right reading “one” time so far. I am driving the boat in 55-61kph (GPS speed).

Sometime, the depth readout box will not show up when I turn on the unit and I have to start driving the boat to get it back.

Here is what I did so far for troubleshooting.
1)   Turn off the unit and unplug the SI connector form the AS-Si-DB-Y cable. Change the unit sonar setting to use Dual Beam and same set of problem as I have with the SI transducer.
2)   When I disconnected the SI connector, the temperature and SI function disappear which I know that the Y cable is working.
3)   All electronic devices on the boat were off except the trolling motor.

Just found out today.
1)   The unit power is connected to the boat main power distribution panel with 3 amp blade fuse installed.(cranking battery)
2)   The marine mechanic does not want to drill too many holes in my boat so he tied the transducer cables to the existing wiring system.

Since I lose the depth reading once I passed 10kph constantly, do you think I should test the unit with a separate battery (I have an ICE 55 battery that I can use for testing). In this case, I will eliminate the boat alternator noise or any electric interference issues.

Thanks for your help…

Philip

bigbass · « **Reply #35 on:** May 26, 2011, 11:32:31 AM »

Still not working... More pic..

bigbass · « **Reply #36 on:** May 26, 2011, 11:33:36 AM »

bigbass · « **Reply #37 on:** May 26, 2011, 11:34:20 AM »

titansfan2104 · « **Reply #38 on:** June 14, 2011, 03:07:29 AM »

You will get inconsistent depth readings at higher speeds with the si transducer. Mine does great at slower speedsbut jumps all over as soon as I get a little speed going! You might want to.trim your motor up quite a bitso the left beam is clear. That's just some of the things I do to get the best performance. And I don't know but personally think you are way to close to the motor , unless you trim up

bigbass · « **Reply #39 on:** June 14, 2011, 05:04:24 PM »

Hi,

Just got back the 1198c from HB repair center and it is all good now.

Because I need to go to BVI for a business trip, I did not change much on
the configuration at all. Below is what I have setup. Just plug in the unit and it works.

1) Y splitter cable
2) Xnt-9-20 transducer.

The unit is DOA from the manufature.

The HB repair service is great, i sent the unit in Wednesday and got it back Friday..

I am a happy guy now...

Philip

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