Topic: Anyone good at fish ID?

[IRC Kevin]

Windermere UK is a fresh water lake. Lower shoal seems to be composed of sizeable fish. (screen speed set at 5 and TVG 'on') I'm not an angler, so would love to hear from wiser souls.

[soretoe]

I see two schools of fish with the bottom school having some larger fish in it. The sonar shadow is what you can use to tell.

[snapper]

Difficult to say for sure but I'd suggest bream or roach most likely - both shoaling fish found in large quantities. Could also be rudd.

[littleman]

i just started with my 798 and i cant tell what i am looking i know one the salesman that said you could see a jig  was on his best sales pitch .  everthing looks like the moon . catching fish under the boat  and it did not show any.

[salvor6]

I can see fish under my boat but its impossible to tell what species it is.

[Phiznat5000]

Probably goes without saying but I just took my 798c out for a spin on th 4th. I am very familiar with the river I was on and noticed some fish (large) that were showing up on my left side scan. There were three together. When I zoomed in and studied the shadow of the fish and the shape, it seems that they were most likely Alligator gar. Which in this river are very common. No way to know 100% but, it seems likely considering the shape/shadow, the fished depth, and the fact that they seemed to be free roaming open water. They were not around any other fish or structure. So where smaller fish appear, I think the shadow they create on screen is more important than the "white" shape they make.

As with a real life camera, if you move the moment the picture is taken it will create a blur where motion occured. So I think smaller fish that are moving can created a much longer or larger looking "shape" on the screen. Where as the shadow it casts is probably more accurate in determinig size when the fish is moving. Im no expert but that seems to be the case based off my observations.

So taking these things into account while trying to identify fish on the side imaging may help.

[Sam]

I have a 598. Obviously, when I am in the side view, it does no good to have my Fish ID+ on. Quite some time ago, I listened to an expert give a discussion on line and I think he was at a Wal Mart store when he was speaking about several brands of fish finders. I can't remember the web site I was on. When talking about the Humminbird, he clearly and emphatically said to never use the Fish ID because it tells constant lies and cannot be trusted, no matter what settings its on. On the other hand, the sonar boomerang images can always be trusted 100% to be fish. He didn't say this, but I guess when Fish ID is off, when the beam hits a limb, it cannot return as a boomerang. But its confusing because sometimes, a limb can look like a fish. Right?

I fish in Johns Lake in central FL. Maximum depth 16'. I fish for crappie. All I see is smeary red bloches that sometimes looks a little like a boomerang.

I know its not germaine to your post, but I hope I can squeeze in another question. I have read the big manual and viewed several image postings on this forum, and all I can determine is, in the side view, white rice speeks are fish and clouds are bait fish. I pretty well understand the shadow concept and the significance of the shadow size. Like all newbies, any help is really appreciated.

[RGecy]

So what's your question?  Your last statement in regards to the fish and bait fish is correct.

As for tree limbs looking like fish returns, well that's a tough one.  The answer would be yes, I am sure a limb could give a return that could look like a fish, but having fish ID on isn't necessarily a bad thing.  And the unit should be able to distinguish between the two different returns.  The unit actually looks for the distinctive boomerang return that is caused by the fishes air bladder and has a thicker middle and curves downward.  Brush limbs will just look like blobs of color usually.

There are lost of post on 2D sonar and fish arches.

Good Luck,

Robert 

[Sam]

Sorry I wasn't clear. The fish tech I watched on the internet said the reason non sish objects can't look like a boomerang is very few of these objects resemble an actual fish. But if I have my Fish ID+ on, it will mistakenedly send back small, medium, or large fish icons on most or all non fish objects.

You said "And the unit should be able to distinguish between the 2 different returns". So my first question is when searching just for fish, not brush, why is there a need for me to distinguish between a color blob ad a fish icon produced by fish ID? Neither is a fish.

Question 2: What good does fish ID do?

Question 3. Can I rely on the Humminbird fish tech's veracity? He says fish ID is worthless. I was hoping to get a general concensus from you guys.

[RGecy]

I would disagree.   My opinion is that it works. Fish ID will certainly pick fish out even hidden in brush or branches.  Maybe not perfect, but better than not having it all.

[Humminbird_Greg]

I agree.
While no one’s Fish ID is perfect, we (Humminbird) don’t just assign a Fish ID symbol to any sonar return.  There is certain criteria that the sonar return has to meet before it is assigned a Fish ID Symbol.  Can it show non-fish objects with a Fish ID Icon?  Yes.  Can it fail to show a real fish with a Fish ID Icon?  Yes.  It is a useful learning tool?  Yes again.  I know of several experienced fishermen who continue to use the Fish ID function because it has shown itself to be right over and over again.  Fish ID is adjustable using the Fish ID Sensitivity menu; so you can tweak how many Fish ID Symbols it shows.

Q1: Because that colored blob or the Fish ID Icon could in fact be a fish.

Q2: It can help you learn what is and is not a fish.  Also, the unit may be able to ‘see’ things that the user cannot due to the water depth and vertical display resolution involved.
Now, not all fishermen believe the Fish ID Symbols.  It is just like many other features and functions in our units: you don’t like it or want to use it – turn it down/off.

Non-fish objects can look like a boomerang since that shape is not unique to only fish.  Any object could potentially produce that same shape due to the way sonar works and is displayed.  All fish do not produce boomerang shaped sonar returns either, again due to how sonar works and is displayed.

[Dieago]

Im no expert by no means but I'm getting to where I can find fish. I don't use fish id but Ive did hrs and hrs of reading and video and asked questions here. one thing that helped me was. thinking is this a area that fish should be at? whats the old saying 90% of the fish live in 10% of the lake. Ive owned probably 10 finders in my life and never really knew how to use them. in the last couple months I was getting really frustrated but now its starting to come to me a little at a time. The other thing was I would see things That I thought were fish but could not catch anything and thought this darn thing don't work. well I kept seeing what I thought was  fish but twice fishing and nothing! but who's to say they wasn't carp gar or who knows. in last 8-10 days Ive found fish and caught them once catfish then couple times crappie and I bet if id turned fish id on it would have showed fish symbols. The other thing I think is maybe the finder can show fish but one thing I thought when looking #1 am I good enough to get them to bite? #2 are they feeding. #3 a carp or buffalo is not going to probably hit a minnow or jig. and a bass, crappie or gar is probably  not going to hit worm or stink bait. and my humminbird don't know whats what so I started carrying bait for everything and trying it all on things I saw. I'm 20% better at id'ing fish than I was and hopefully in few months i will be 20% better than I am now. lol

[Sam]

I have read RGecy,HB Greg, and Dieago. Wish I had more time to stay on this site. Thank you and all others for some very perceptive insight. Just what I had hoped for. Your comments elicit many, many thoughts but I will only take time to address a sparse few.  Hum. Greg said "Non fish objects can look like a boomerang since that shape is not unique to only fish".  An article I read said that the sonar return of a limb, even if it is big in the middle and small on both ends, will not give a boomarang image because it don't have an air sack. I believe you more than the article. I guess I have been watching too much "Wicked Tuna" on TV.  Tuna have a large sack and always show up a a boomarang.  I am wondering what a shark image looks like and if their sack is smaller than Tuna?

Dieago has expressed my experience exactly. I have not mastered fish ID and at the rate I am going, it will be a while. Something he said about Crappie prompts me to share this. I read many years ago that the single most important factor in catching Crappie is the depth. I can barely remember the article but over the years, experience has proved the article right. The article said that Crappie were designed that they cannot look down unless they turn their body downward. So their vision is mostly forward. And their upward vision leaves much to desire. Even in clear water, (the article) they can only see a small jig  3-4' above their nose. And if the object is farthar above this, they either can't see it clearly or are too finicky to go after it. If this is true, then I have to bounce a jig off their nose. If this is true, the color of the jig, speed, bouncing retrieve or straight, and other factors are secondary. I have found this to be true because in fishing side by side with another boat, both using identical methods and equipment and one catching fish 5' deep, the other not catching and fishing 9". Wish I had time to ask questions.

[Dieago]

I can tell you exactly how crappie feed Ive seen it! A friend has those green mercury vapor lights on his dock and right as they come on and the suns going down its the craziest thing ive ever seen! the crappie go vertical and side ways! I mean there tails are pointed down towards the bottom and there head straight up toward the surface! also they turn on there sides with one eye looking up!   crazy looking and the dart up like surface to air missiles taking off!

[Sam]

Your observation causes me to speculate that the antics crappie take to better see their enviornment is proof that their vision has limitations that other species don't have.  If they have to turn on their side to look down, to me this means that they don't have good downward vision when they are horizional with their dorsal fin pointing up. And if they have to point their head upward to see upward, they are in effect, looking forward. If all fish are this way, then the article I read is not valid.

I conjecture that Crappie have forward and upward vision when in a normal horizional position, but are blind looking downward unless they turn on their side. Why else would  they turn on their side? If my jig drops below their forward line of sight before they see it, they have no reason to chase it downward. I also guess that when they are foraging for bait fish, they use less energy by swimming in a normal horizional position. So I can say they don't do their flipping antics and won't hit my jig unless I practically bounce it off their nose? Thanks for your observation.

Obviously, this is a more complicated issue because of a crappie's other sensory glands.

[slabbacks]

When I go out and use my units on the water it's in search of crappie.  Some go out for bass, cats ect.  Watched a show last month where a man out west used it to search for sturgeon (sorry if I butchered the spelling of that one, not many over this way lol )  and as he was running the river he saw what he was looking for and dropped anchor.  Took several from that spot.

I think it falls back on knowing the fish your after and what they are doing during that time of year.  Winter is holding on here and I know that the deep river channels close to the feeder creek is going to be my best bet.  WHY, because I've caught them in these types of areas before this time of year.

This weekend this is what I found.  Did I know for a fact it was crappie, of course not but I had a lot of factors that pointed to them being down there and without SI it would have taken longer to locate.  After dropping down I hooked crappie but also had stripe mixed in.  Boomerangs / arches / blobs what ever you choose to call it fall back on learning your unit and know what it's telling you.  (Based off of what you have learned over time with it)