Topic: Screen not good deeper than 50 meters ??

[didier74]

Hello, everybody
Have 1197 cx Si unit with 6.310
And 1198 cx SI unit with 6.490
Have tried two XHS 9 HD SI transducer
My problem is in 2 D view
This problem is same when i connect my both units Ethernet, or when i use only one unit while other is off
With depths 0-49.9 meters have good sonar returns, nice bottom and screen...

But when depth is 50,1 meters and more then, screen changes...
Bottom line is not good, sonar return are not good, pixelated.
Picture movements across screen are not good,seems start and stop...

Does other people have the same thing ?
Tried many different settings ...
Max depth set to auto or manual nearly 60 meters, sensitivity higher, transducer set to Dual Beam, surface clarity, SI range set to auto or manual,

But nothing seems to work....
Please help me
Thanks...

[sonar2000]

We generally don't get good returns from a top mounted transducer below 50 feet let alone 50 meters. I would suppose the reason for a tow fish that some of the folks make... It is just the way the fish finders operate.
Chuck

[didier74]

Thanks sonar2000,
So if well understood, i can t have good reading in 2 D (200 and 83 khz) when it s deeper than 50meters ?
I thought it was too deep for SI and DI views but not for 2 D traditional view...

So i cant use my units when deeper 50 meters

[sonar2000]

I probably misread the post. 2D will be fine at these depths. It is just the SI that has issues. We use the 2D for contour mapping and it seems to be fine on accuracy. Also the display seems to indicate the actual bottom composition.
It is the DI/SI at deep depths that seems to have problems.
It could be the Ethernet circuitry for the 2d problem. We are not using the Ethernet connect on ours so you might try the direct connect to the unit..
I thought the dual beam only pinged the 200/83 transducer.

Chuck

[Humminbird_Greg]

Didier74,
Yes, the 2D sonar should work deeper than 50 meters.
Have you tried both transducer on both units?
Have you checked the power connections to the battery?  They should all be clean and tight.  Have the battery load tested just to make sure it is good.
Is this in fresh or salt water?
Try changing the Water Type menu setting.

[didier74]

Greg
Thanks for helping me again.
This is in fresh water
Tried both transducers with both units and same thing...
Power connections to the battery are good
And battery load tested good too...
That is strange 49.99 m perfect...and when depth 50 m exactly the problem comes...
Was thinking that may be at 50 m and more, ping is not the same (speed,frequency or other) ??
Does i need perhaps a chart speed slower when in water more 50 m??
Next time will try to post screen shots...

Thanks again

[ITGEEK]

Didier74:
I would check that your transducers are level against the water
with the boat at normal operating weight with gas, passengers, and cargo.
And at normal operating/searching speed.
If the tranducer is tilted forward or backward at an angle, then it may take the pings longer
to hit the bottom than if they were nice and flat to the bottom.
I would think than any kind of sonar angle (other than straight up and down), would reduce the accuracy/definition of the unit.  I think the deeper the water, the worse the problem can potentially be.

Also, have you checked to make sure your transducers are mounted securely, and can't tilt front to back?

[didier74]

Thanks ITGEEK for helping me too
Transducers are level with water
And cant tilt front to back...

But with your post i m thinking about one thing...
Does from 0 to 49.99 meters there is a number of pings and one time between each ping ,sent by the unit ??
And other settings in the soft of unit for water from 50 m deep and more ??
Pings are perhaps not the same from 0 to 49.99 m and from 50m and more ?

May be Greg could tell us about that ??

One more time
Thanks all people helping me..

[ITGEEK]

I would try like Greg suggested, setting the
water type to salt water (deep), and see what happens.
50 meters is really deep for freshwater (164 feet).

[didier74]

Thanks ITGEEK
Next time on water,
will try with saltwater settings ...

Does using a Airmar transducer (200/50khz) P66
Would be better when in deep depth (50 meters and more) ?
As i have two units Ethernet connected

May be i could have for exemple :
  1197 cx SI unit with Airmar transducer for use with 2D
     With settings for this unit
     Transducer select: Dual 50/200khz
     Beam select: 

  1198 cx HDSI unit with XHS 9 HDSI transducer for SI and DI
     With settings for this unit
      Transducer select: Hi-Def scan
      Beam select:200/83khz

Thanks for help.
     

[Humminbird_Greg]

didier74,
You should not have to go to a 50kHz transducer for water depth readings of only 164 feet deep.  You make a good point though if the problem shows up at exactly 50.0 meters but not at 49.9 meters.  That sounds more like something in the unit or software.

Try changing the Water Type menu change and see if that helps.

[ITGEEK]

didier:
I have heard that Airmar transducers are very good, though I don't have any real world experience with them.  I would explain your sonar set-up to them, and what depth of waters you frequent, and ask them to give you a transducer recommendation.  See below:
 
Before emailing or calling Airmar, please note that Airmar does NOT sell marine transducers or spare parts directly to electronics dealers, installers, or end users. You must contact one of our two distribution offices, your electronics manufacturer, or a local installing dealer.
 
Airmar's distribution offices:
 •Gemeco Marine Accessories is Airmar’s marine products distributor that services the USA and Canada. Contact Gemeco at sales@gemeco.com or phone 803-693-0777.
 •Airmar EMEA services marine customers in Europe and the rest of the world. Contact Airmar EMEA at sales@airmar-emea.com or phone +33 (0)2 23 52 06 48.

[didier74]

Thanks Greg
try end of week changing water type and will see what happens...

Thanks ITGEEK for Airmar informations.

[didier74]

I post u screenshot of my probem
u can see easily the changing quality screen
when depth is before and after 50meters

tried all settings, even salt water
and no changing
i have this with my 1197cx SI and my 1198 cx SI
soft v6.490 for 1198 unit
soft v6.310 fot 1197 unit

i think the only thing could be the soft
as have this problem on 2 differents unit

Greg do u think i should try an older version of soft ?
which one?
give u serial number of my units if can help u
   1197 serial number 8041404-0111
   1198 serial number 13011102-0155

thanks everybody

[Bob B]

My guess would be that you are getting a decrease in the ping rate once the depth goes below the 50M depth.

[Humminbird_Greg]

Not just the ping rate may be changing at that water depth.  There may also be a transmit power change and/or changes made to different filters used by the unit.  There looks to have been a change made to the TVG filtering so that additional surface clutter would not be shown but I don’t know for sure.

I don’t also don’t know that an older version of software would help or if it would; which software version.  I would not load an older software version that what originally came in the units and depending on whether they are connected or have any waypoints in them, loading some software versions could render them useless.
Your 1197 unit was originally built with software version 4.070 (I would not load anything older that a 6.XXX level software)
Your 1198 unit was originally built with software version 6.490

[didier74]

Thanks Bob and Greg
Tried to select Dual Beam transducer not better.
Tried 200 KHz only not better.
 I m coming crazy, dont know what i must do

Please help me, help me
 

[didier74]

 
Have loaded software version v6.180 with my 1197 unit
And now, all is good
Quality screen definition is the same
At all depth

But wondering what i should do now
With my 1198 unit which was originaly built with soft v6.490
And i cant downgrad it?

All my thanks Greg
One more time, you are the best
 

[Bob B]

6.490 for the 1198 should be equivalent to the 6.310 on the 1197........It is the overall best release for the 1198 if you don't require the heading sensor, 360, or I-pilot compatability.

[Ronny]

I have the same problem with my 1199si and 1158cx regardless of running the original 200/83 kHz transom transducer or the 200/83 kHz element built in the si transducer.

The picture turns into something looking like a 100 dollar unit when going deeper then 50,0 meters...

Even if you choose to look at 0-20 meter or so when deeper then 50 meters it looks bad may be even worse since the pixled undetailed echos now are up scaled.

I will try the older software version, thanks didier74 on the 1158.
The1199 is another question....

I also run I- pilot and the Minn-Kota frontmotor with ethernet cable and as far as I understand this isn't possible with the old software which is needed to get an acceptable screen when exceeding 50 meters depth.... Not good....

[ckd022]

Just curious, if you set the upper range to 25m so that you are only seeing the sonar returns from 25m to the bottom does the bottom still look the same at the 50m depth?  I'm just wondering if it is a problem with the pixel quantization over that large depth range.

Kevin

[ITGEEK]

I guess you guys are using international models?
Can you still set the depth to be feet instead of meters?
If you can, I would set the depth to feet and see what happens.
I'm sure more domestic models have been sold than international models.
If the depth in feet had a problem like this, I'm sure Humminbird would have heard about it a long time ago, and fixed it.

[didier74]

Yes ITGEEK my units are international models
Set depth in feet instead meters is one thing i have not try
I will try it with my 1198 cx HD SI with soft v6.490
Next time on water

At this time
Since my 1197cx SI is with v6.180
Everything is good, when i am in more 50 meters

Thanks for your help ITGEEK
Sorry for my english,
But i m french

[Ronny]

Yesterday I discovered a strange thing about the bad imaging when deeper than 50 meters.
I have tried about everything possible but when turning the noise filter off completely the problem was reduced.

It has to be a software problem may be related to the shallow test lake (less than 50 m) where most trails take place for new Huminbird features/ products...

[didier74]

Tried to set depth in feet instead of meters
With my 1198 cx HD SI unit, soft v6.490
And same result, as deeper than 50 meters,
Quality screen is not good.