Author Topic: Interfacing a HB with the Lowrance LSS-2. (Read 123224 times)

Rickard · « **Reply #100 on:** June 21, 2014, 04:26:52 AM »

Hi,
The info and discussions on combining the LSS-2 with a Humminbird system may have been confusing. This has to do with the various ways this can be done depending on type of HB transducer used, if extensions are used and if cables are spliced, or not. I think all solutions presented in the forum are unique, but still functional. It's difficult to answer your questions on the specific pin #, because you seem to use numbers different from those I have seen.

The most enlightening figure that shows pin assignments and wire colors in the LSS-2 is found in Rickie's thread (the LSS-2 connector is shown at the bottom of the figure): http://forums.sideimagingsoft.com/index.php?topic=6426.msg38106#msg38106

Regardless of how the system is designed all drain, ground and "minus" wires in both transducers must be connected to the same ground pin in the HB connector that is plugged into the unit.

There is no separate power supply. All power is provided through the sonar channels (like in a loudspeaker with no internal amplifier.)

You ask about wires for "the return signal". It's not clear if you mean minus/ground wire or the state when the transducer receives sound. Minus/ground wires are shown in Rickie's figure. The same wire pairs are used when the transducer is transmitting and receiving. It's the unit that switches between these modes between pings.

Hope this helps

Rickard

abraquelebout · « **Reply #101 on:** June 22, 2014, 04:57:43 AM »

hi hall
it's time to make a repport for hybrid lowbird system
2000 scans with towfish in my 898 unit, no problem, towfish is a good solution to make good wreek picture and lot of thing.
aproximatively 500 scans with lowbird, the unique problem is noise made by 83 Khz. and the unit don't take 200Khz selected in all scans.
if you start in 200 khz it's good, you make selection in 200/83 or 83 khz, noise come in result , you select 200 again and the unit run in 200/83.
i think a bug in unit software ?
i ask this in humminbird france, they tell me that the 200/83 always work ?
i wonder if there's a solution to shot the 83 out in composant electonic system (desactive the resonator)
i make an experiment with a airmar 200 / 50 p55 ducer and LSS2 (a lowmar or lowair...) good result in 200 but if you put 200 /83 noise come again...
i want to find a unique 200 600 watt ducer, as someone get an idea ?
this type of ducer are old.
to finish
I'M VERRY ANDJOY WITH LOWBIRD

, it come in all my travel for all achéologycal mission,
i join the new site of our association
http://www.arepmaref.fr/

PT · « **Reply #102 on:** June 22, 2014, 06:42:04 AM »

Thanks Rickard, I will pass this on to the techie and hopefully get it up and running: your help is much appreciated.

Also, using my 898 with 50 metres of cable, I have found four new wreck sites this year; they would not have been found without the Humminbird. A great product!

Regards

Peter

rnvinc · « **Reply #103 on:** June 22, 2014, 01:10:22 PM »

Quote from: PT on June 22, 2014, 06:42:04 AM

Thanks Rickard, I will pass this on to the techie and hopefully get it up and running: your help is much appreciated.

Also, using my 898 with 50 metres of cable, I have found four new wreck sites this year; they would not have been found without the Humminbird. A great product!

Regards

Peter

It is important to note that the pin designations in my depiction at this link referenced... http://forums.sideimagingsoft.com/index.php?topic=6426.0 ...is of the "custom LowBird Y cable" that I built to have "plug and play" capability of using the LSS 2 xducer on my HB 1197...

This means that the pin designations in my depiction are "mirror images" of the pin designations in the actual xducer cable connector ends...

Below is the pin layout of the actual LSS 2 xducer cable end....

Below is the pin designation of the actual LSS 2 xducer cable end...(starting at the 7o'clock pin position)...

__________________________

It is also important to note that the wire color designations (in the depiction of my LowBird Y cable) are the wire colors in the Lowrance XT 10BLK extension cable that I used to build my custom Y cable....

I did not cut the end off my LSS 2 xducer ...so I have no way to verify that the wire color designations in my custom Y cable carry into and thru the actual LSS 2 xducer cable....
__________________

It is again (and also) important to note (in the depiction of my custom Y cable)...that the pin designation for the HB HDSI xducer and the HB Dual Beam xducer are also "mirror images" of the actual xducer cable connector ends...

Here is the pin designations for the actual HB HDSI xducer cable end...

It is again (and also) important to note that the wire color designations (in the depiction of my LowBird Y cable) are the wire colors in the HB AS T Y cables that I used to build my custom Y cable....

I did not cut the end off my HB HDSI (nor the xducer I used for the Dual Beam leg)...so the wire colors of the actual HB HDSI xducers may be different than the wire colors of the HB AS T Y cables I used for my custom Y cable...

Rickie

Rickard · « **Reply #104 on:** June 22, 2014, 02:23:14 PM »

Quote

This means that the pin designations in my depiction are "mirror images" of the pin designations in the actual xducer cable connector ends...

Relax, Rickie, your wiring diagram clearly states FEMALE connector. This means it should be a mirror image of the male connector on the transducer cable end. I checked the wire colors in an LSS-2 transducer cable that has been cut and, fortunately, the colors are the same as in the Lowrance extension cable. But relying on wire colors is risky, the manufacturer can change the colors without notice. Pin designations don't change and the wire colors are important only when cables are cut and spliced. It's easy to check which wire goes with which pin once a cable is cut.

Rickard

rnvinc · « **Reply #105 on:** June 24, 2014, 07:03:27 AM »

Thanks Rickard...I just didn't want PT to mistakenly use incorrect pin designations...

The "mirror image" pin designations were my most challenging part of getting all those wires lined up correctly...

It is good info that you checked the wire colors in the actual LSS 2 xducer cable...

Rickie

PT · « **Reply #106 on:** July 21, 2014, 06:46:51 AM »

Thanks to all, the wiring diagram was correct and I finally got out to test Lowbird. I mounted the Lowbird on the same fish as the 898 and hung it about one metre below my boat. I have 95 metres of cable on the Lowbird (still wound up) and the standard transducer cable on the 898. The new Lowbird worked fine, however, when I viewed the data through Humviewer I did notice the image to be more compressed (vertically) than the Humminbird's. I compared the two over the same distance and the same plane wreck in 9.5 metres of saltwater. (See images attached) Any suggestions for extending the compressed signal? Increase chart speed perhaps?

Regards

Peter

Rickard · « **Reply #107 on:** July 21, 2014, 09:38:16 AM »

Glad to see you succeeded with the Lowbird! I don't know of any reason for the Lowbird system to give more "compressed" recordings than the standard transducer. The length of a recording (i.e. number of pings) is a function of several factors: depth, SI range setting and boat speed. The scroll/chart speed setting in the unit does not affect the recording, it only affects the appearance of the image on the display. If the image really gets more compressed with the Lowbird it could mean depth is not measured properly. No depth info will result in very low SI ping rate and a very "compressed" recording.

Rickard

rnvinc · « **Reply #108 on:** July 22, 2014, 02:18:28 AM »

PT...how are you obtaining your 200kHz 2d...??

Rickie

PT · « **Reply #109 on:** July 22, 2014, 08:45:43 AM »

Hello Rickie, I didn't actually get 200 kHz depth, the Lowbird image didn't attach (my mistake) to yesterday's reply. Yesterday's was the comparison image from the 898 so as I will attach the Lowbird image to this post. Also, without a depth reading Reefmaster won't display the sidescan data from the Lowbird file (it does play in Humviewer). I have used Reefmaster to stretch out other data I have collected out in the ocean where the swell affected my towfish (which was a too light and suffered from heave).

Regards

Peter

Rickard · « **Reply #110 on:** July 22, 2014, 10:58:34 AM »

Peter,

2D 200 kHz info is required for presentable sidescan results. When you have added a 2D/200 kHz/depth channel all issues with compressed recordings will be gone.

Rickard

rnvinc · « **Reply #111 on:** July 22, 2014, 10:01:12 PM »

Quote from: Rickard on July 22, 2014, 10:58:34 AM

Peter,

2D 200 kHz info is required for presentable sidescan results. When you have added a 2D/200 kHz/depth channel all issues with compressed recordings will be gone.

Rickard

PT..I agree with Rickard...(well..really I "defer" to Rickard because he's way more versed in this than I)...

But I'm confused on your LowBird setup...

Is there a 200kHz 2d piezo element connected in your LowBird cabling setup somehow...??

If there is not...you can hook your LowBird cable end to the "Side imaging" leg of the HB AS SIDB Y cable ...

Then connect an additional HB xducer (capable of 200kHz)...to the "Dual Beam" leg of the HB AS SIDB Y cable ....

This will allow the HB head unit to obtain 200kHz 2d depth data...(while the SI data is collected thru your LowBird cabling setup)...

Rickie

PT · « **Reply #112 on:** July 23, 2014, 08:57:32 AM »

Well, I can see what I have done wrong, I only have the Lowrance transducer spliced into the computer cable. I haven't connected up a second transducer to collect 2D 200kHz depth data. Can this be spliced into the cable?

Thanks

Peter

abraquelebout · « **Reply #113 on:** July 23, 2014, 01:09:47 PM »

hi Pt
for 200 khz use pin 6 and 7 in the humminbird connector (picture in subject)
your towfish sim's well done, in the begining the LSS2 scan seem's more different than hum, but they are better and corectly referenced .
for me the only problem is the 83 khz
he make noise on scan !!!
i test a 200 / 50 khz (airmar) in place of 200/83 Khz, no good result at 83 khz, i don't know if a only 200khz is the solution
has someone know if there's one 83/200 khz resonator or two diferent in unit ? (if it's this i can cut the 83 one)
the 83 khz make a bar code in picture (wreek at 83 khz)

Rickard · « **Reply #114 on:** July 24, 2014, 03:23:46 AM »

Quote

i test a 200 / 50 khz (airmar) in place of 200/83 Khz, no good result at 83 khz

You must select the"Sidescan" transducer in the transducer select menu (if that menu is present in your unit) to have 50 kHz in the 2D channel. I think all other transducer settings give 200/83 kHz. A 50 kHz transducer that is fed with 83 kHz won't produce anything. Unfortunately, the Sidescan setting doesn't produce 800 kHz, only 262 and 455 kHz.

50 or 83 kHz is not needed for sidescanning. Most of the time I only use 200 kHz in 2D to save power, reduce workload in the unit and save memory space when recording.

I don't recognize any problems with interference when using 200 and 83/50 kHz, so there is some risk you are unique...

Rickard

DiveExplorer · « **Reply #115 on:** June 03, 2016, 06:12:17 PM »

I was wondering, would it matter in making the Lowbird SS towfish. Does LSS-2 and other transducer interfere with each other. I mean how far do they have to be apart from each other, and would it be better do have the other transducer in front of LSS-2 ?

Comments would be appreciated. I´m into the making of mine own these days.

DE.

Rickard · « **Reply #116 on:** June 04, 2016, 01:01:06 AM »

I have never noticed any interference between the other tranducer (the 2D transducer) and the LSS-2. I don't think it really matters, but it could be wise mounting the other transducer after the LSS-2 to eliminate any influence from turbulence on the sidescan image.

Rickard

DiveExplorer · « **Reply #117 on:** June 04, 2016, 09:18:55 AM »

Ok I thought it would be better other way around..? , because the other transducer get the pings for the LSS-2. But I expect it wont matter it is so small gab between them.

Thanks for your fast reply Rickard.

Rickard · « **Reply #118 on:** June 04, 2016, 04:04:38 PM »

The downward sensing 2D transducer and the LSS-2 operate as two independent transducer systems. The sidescan ping frequency in the LSS-2 is controled by the head unit, and the head unit uses information on depth from the downward 2D part of the system to do that. The 2D transducer and the LSS-2 do not communicate directly. That's why I say the relative position of the transducers probably doesn't matter.

Rickard

zeebeest · « **Reply #119 on:** March 24, 2017, 11:14:11 AM »

I have a problem with the depth on my Humminbird 1198 when i use the LSS-2 .
Its not a steady signal .
Also on Down scan its not working
Anybody a solution ?

rnvinc · « **Reply #120 on:** March 24, 2017, 11:33:17 AM »

Quote from: zeebeest on March 24, 2017, 11:14:11 AM

I have a problem with the depth on my Humminbird 1198 when i use the LSS-2 .
Its not a steady signal .
Also on Down scan its not working
Anybody a solution ?

The LSS 2 does not have a 2d piezo ... The HB units use the 200kHz 2d Sonar for digital depth ...

How is your system obtaining 200kHz 2d that the HB requires for digital depth ...??
-----

Also the DI piezo and the SI piezoes in the LSS 2 are 2 completely different functions ... The HB 1198 SI and DI are the same function ... The HB SI unit does not have a dedicated DI channel for obtaining data from a DI piezo ... The HB SI unit uses the SI channel(s) data and computer generates the SI data to "look like" a DI image ...

In other words ... One cannot wire the DI piezo and the SI piezoes from the LSS 2 into the HB 1198 at the same time and obtain SI imaging and dedicated DI Imaging ...

It has to be wired such that the LSS 2 DI piezo is used without the SI piezoes Connected ...

And conversely (and separately) wired such that the LSS 2 SI piezoes are used without the DI piezo Connected ...

Please explain your connections from the 1198 xducer wire channels to the LSS 2 piezoes ...

Rickie

zeebeest · « **Reply #121 on:** March 25, 2017, 10:50:23 AM »

I have tried to scan with only a LSS-2 and connect all the wires from the LSS-2 directly into the HB .
But I understand now that is not possible .
So I shall use the HDS only for depth and the LSS-2 for SI ?
And what is the correct connection when i use both transducers ?
Grt Andre

rnvinc · « **Reply #122 on:** March 25, 2017, 10:14:01 PM »

Quote from: zeebeest on March 25, 2017, 10:50:23 AM

I have tried to scan with only a LSS-2 and connect all the wires from the LSS-2 directly into the HB .
But I understand now that is not possible .
So I shall use the HDS only for depth and the LSS-2 for SI ?
And what is the correct connection when i use both transducers ?
Grt Andre

It is important to have a 200kHz 2d Connected to the HB unit for digital depth ... The HB unit also uses the 200kHz data is some algorithm processing into the SI Imaging ...

The easier way to obtain 200kHz 2d (along with a LSS 2 connection Setup) is to use the AS SIDB Y cable ...
http://www.humminbird.com/Products/AS-SIDB-Y/

*Connect the Dual Beam leg of the AS SIDB Y cable to any HB unit capable of 200kHz 2d that has the house shaped 9pin connector ...

*Connect the Side Imaging leg of the AS SIDB Y cable to the LSS 2 SI piezoes ...

*You can also adapt a 2nd AS SIDB Y cable such that the right SI channel of the Side Imaging leg (of the AS SIDB Y cable) connects to the LSS 2 DI piezo ... This will only give a right SI image on the HB SI - the data would be coming from "straight down" under the LSS 2 - the HB DI image would look normal (because the HB unit would "think" the data is coming from a right SI piezo thru the right SI wire channel) ...

The above would give 2 separate adapter cables for using the LSS 2 on the HB unit = 1 adapter cable for LSS 2 SI in the HB unit and 1 adapter cable for LSS 2 DI in the HB unit ...
-----

Are your current LSS 2 connections hard wired into the unit somehow ...or have you created an adapter cable of some sort ...??

Rickie

John M · « **Reply #123 on:** May 08, 2017, 04:59:51 AM »

Hi Rickard: I know this post was a long time ago, but do you know the humminbird transducer pinout info?
I'm looking to hook up a garmin GT40-TM to my 997c si unit because it has a narrower horizontal beam width and showed better range on the Garmin unit, with the same wattage. Thanks!

Rickard · « **Reply #124 on:** May 09, 2017, 06:34:41 AM »

Hi John,
In post #103 above you can find an example on pinout. That chart shows the pinout in a sideimaging transducer, but the same configuration is used with the quadbeam transducer. I have never used a downward-only transducer, but the pins for 200/50 kHz (or 200/83 kHz) and ground must have the same locations in all transducers.

Rickard

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