Author Topic: HB "Preinstalled" software versions vs HB "Updateable" software versions  (Read 11493 times)

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Offline rnvinc

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So I'm just curious....(my OCD works too much sometimes)...

I don't seem to be hearing many (if any) horror stories regarding "new" units that ship with the newest software versions preinstalled...

They all seem to be related to "older" units that are trying to be updated to the new software versions...

If this is true, then the underlying problem may not really the code in the newest software version (per se) ... But rather the ability of code embeded in the "older" unit's programming to receive, record, and input the new software attempting to be updated...

Just thinkin....out loud...

Rickie
« Last Edit: June 27, 2012, 10:12:11 PM by rnvinc »


Offline sonar2000

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Rickie, remember that the new units have a new processor that operates differently. The code is different not only for the code but for the units.
Chuck

Offline Humminbird_Greg

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Rickie, remember that the new units have a new processor that operates differently. The code is different not only for the code but for the units.
Chuck

Not in the same model unit Chuck. Example: the 1198c Si units that we build today have the same exact processor that they always have had.
Greg Walters at Humminbird
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Offline sonar2000

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I thought the 1198 had the linux processor.
No wonder it is so hard to get code to run.
I think HB is promoting the IT groups.  It seems the common man cant update these any more..

Chuck

Offline Humminbird_Greg

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Chuck, the units have the same processors that they were originally designed with.  The 1198’s have the same one that they were originally designed with, the 798ci HD Si units have the same one they were designed with,… it has nothing to do with whether they are running Linux based software or not.

The units are still updated the same way as they always have been: units with a memory card slot use a memory card while those without a memory card slot can use the HumminbirdPC program and PC Connect cables.

Greg Walters at Humminbird
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Offline sonar2000

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OK but then we cant do a boot restore with the linux then????
I give up...

Chuck

Offline ITGEEK

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Rickie,
One possible explanation why older units that are getting
new updates have problems, is because most older units have
some saved waypoints/tracks/routes.  These things take up memory, and
can get corrupted.

New units come with clean NAV memory.

Offline rnvinc

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Rickie,
One possible explanation why older units that are getting
new updates have problems, is because most older units have
some saved waypoints/tracks/routes.  These things take up memory, and
can get corrupted.

New units come with clean NAV memory.

Seems like this scenario could be tested by HB software developement dept...

And if deemed to be the culprit... We (HB and us on the boards) need a dedicated campaign to advise users to export and delete all NAV data before updating...

I mean, we changed the entire HB user market mindset into the importance of "Restore Factory Defaults- before and after updating)....

This should be no more difficult...("sarcasm"....sorta...but still possible)...

We are chasing fires with a bucket of hot coals...(and, I'm afraid losing loyal HB customers)...

Rickie

Rickie
« Last Edit: June 28, 2012, 11:15:49 AM by rnvinc »

Offline Humminbird_Greg

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If corrupt waypoints were the only cause or at least could be determined to be the primary cause of failed software updates, than I would expect that we would do just that Rickie.  I don’t know that we have determined that to be what is causing most of the problems as others have identified other issues like corrupted software download files and power interruptions – still: I certainly recommend cleaning all the Nav Data out before updating.  It certainly can’t hurt and makes those who do not routinely save their Nav Data on their computers do so.

Greg Walters at Humminbird
gwalters@johnsonoutdoors.com

Offline ITGEEK

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To play it absolutely safe, these steps would have to be done to update:
1) Export all NAV data to an SD card
2) Delete all NAV data on the unit
3) Update unit with new software
4) Bring SD card NAV data into Humminbird PC to authenticate
5) Reload all NAV data from SD card.

Offline rnvinc

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I agree itgeek....

The "Restore Factory Defaults" recommendation was unilaterally adopted "just to be safe"".

I see no reason why we cannot advise "export, delete, authenticate all Nav data" for the same "just to be safe" procedures used to update...

Users find their update procedures in 2 places... The HB website....and us on the boards...

We can do our part to possibly give pertinent info that just may save some HB users grief in their desire to get updates installed without unit problems...

Rickie
« Last Edit: June 28, 2012, 03:57:00 PM by rnvinc »

Offline ITGEEK

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I think another good check to put in, is for users to check the
file size of the update before and after downloading it.
This may catch instances where the update did not fully download.
I can see where a partial downloaded file could absolutely lock
up a system.

Offline Humminbird_Greg

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Good point ITG.  This was a problem I had when I purchased some anti-virus software for my Galaxy Tablet.  The software would not install and I found out after a week of trial and (mostly) error that the entire file would not download.  Luckily the program would not install versus wiping out my tablet…

Greg Walters at Humminbird
gwalters@johnsonoutdoors.com

Offline rnvinc

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So help me kick around some ideas to get this word out....

The way we are handling it now is "after" people have already experienced problems and are desperate for help....(this is "re"-active)..

This could very possibly eliminate half (or more) of the update problems that some users are experiencing...

What tools can we utilize to come to a concensus on all these "just to be safe" measures and get them into public circulation for people to find..?? ...(this is "pro"-active)..(or maybe.."pre"-active)...

I would hope that these "just to be safe" measures can eventually be as commonly understood by all HB users as the "Restore Factory Defaults" scenario we have already accomplished...but until then....

Is there more we can do besides just "chase fires with a bucket of hot coals)..??

Rickie

Offline sonar2000

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what ever happend to the old sum check character used in data transfer. Seems to me if we had that then you would know at the end of the file download if it went ok or not..It used to work fine for computers and the HB is a computer..

Chuck

Offline Moose1am

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Ricky:
Remember that the code is being transmitted over the INTERNET and though your browser onto your PC.  Then it's transfered from the Hard drive to the SDHC card and then finally into your Humminbird Unit. 

I recommend that people turn off their Firewall and security software while downloading the Humminbird Files onto their computer over the internet. Those security programs can sometimes mess up the file data during the download.   

There are many ways for the file data to get corrupted when transferring them from the Humminbird Server to our personal computers.
Remember that not everyone has a fast computer and a cable modem with cable internet. Some guys may still be using Dial Up Modems to get data over the internet.  Those slower modems can introduce even more possible errors.

So I'm just curious....(my OCD works too much sometimes)...

I don't seem to be hearing many (if any) horror stories regarding "new" units that ship with the newest software versions preinstalled...

They all seem to be related to "older" units that are trying to be updated to the new software versions...

If this is true, then the underlying problem may not really the code in the newest software version (per se) ... But rather the ability of code embeded in the "older" unit's programming to receive, record, and input the new software attempting to be updated...

Just thinkin....out loud...

Rickie
« Last Edit: April 15, 2013, 06:24:48 AM by Moose1am »
Regards,

Moose1am

Offline Moose1am

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Greg: Is it possible for the Humminbird Servers to test the software on our computers to make sure that the downloaded software is GOOD?  Is there a check sum number or something that they could check for? 

If the file is so many bytes then they could check the file on our computer to make sure that it's so many bytes in size.

That would help eliminate bad downloads over the internet or at least tell us if we got a bad download before we put it into our Humminbird Units.  That way we could trouble shoot why we got the bad download and fix the problem before redownloading the file again to make sure that we get a good download.


If corrupt waypoints were the only cause or at least could be determined to be the primary cause of failed software updates, than I would expect that we would do just that Rickie.  I don’t know that we have determined that to be what is causing most of the problems as others have identified other issues like corrupted software download files and power interruptions – still: I certainly recommend cleaning all the Nav Data out before updating.  It certainly can’t hurt and makes those who do not routinely save their Nav Data on their computers do so.



Regards,

Moose1am

Offline Moose1am

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Good point Greg and great example of why one should disable the anti virus software before downloading the Humminbird files. Then you can always turn the anti virus software back on after the files are downloaded from Humminbird.

Good point ITG.  This was a problem I had when I purchased some anti-virus software for my Galaxy Tablet.  The software would not install and I found out after a week of trial and (mostly) error that the entire file would not download.  Luckily the program would not install versus wiping out my tablet…


Regards,

Moose1am

Offline LittleGazoo

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Re: HB "Preinstalled" software versions vs HB "Updateable" software versions
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2013, 10:29:02 AM »
I've always performed a Restore Defaults before and after.

I've selected and deleted(or formatted nav directory) prior to update and sometimes after update.
Then uploaded from HBPC onto SD-card and reloaded Navdata.  With earlier versions of HBPC and HB-unit software have had unit-crashes in Waypoint Mangement System.  Had issues with waypoints loading, but tracks not loading.  HBPC did not correct until I converted from GPX to USR, then opened USR with HBPC to converted back to GPX and only this corrected my track issues.  Seems HB IT modified track data-format when WMS was introduced and failed to mention changes.

So I understand corrupt navdata problems, but failed to see how corrupt navdata would cause sonar issues when upgrading.

And sofar most of my NAV and sonar issues have been resolved by the HB IT with a later release and has not been a download problem.  But I would like a checksum to verify the downloaded upgrade.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2013, 10:35:01 AM by LittleGazoo »

Offline johnnytherock

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Re: HB "Preinstalled" software versions vs HB "Updateable" software versions
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2013, 11:50:52 AM »
this is what the general public wants.   when i spend my good money on something, I DON'T want glitches.  It should be right, out of box.  An update should only offer improvements on selectable parameters,  (ie:  hey, we are offering automatic chat speed with this update!).  If if comes with nuisance glitches like the lines showing up on my 998c or the fact it hangs on startup, then a company should be big enough to say "hey, it's good but not perfect, would you like your money back?"       Who is the guy that decided it was ok to sell stuff that just wasn't quite right?  it happens more and more and it is prominent in the world of software, especially microsoft based.  It seems to be an attitude adopted my North Americans to sell you something that is slightly flawed, but in todays world, we think it is acceptable.  Well, for my 2 grand, it's not acceptable.  The only power the consumer has is next time, spend his money elsewhere.  This is the biggest reason the auto industry has suffered so much in the past 6 years.  The consumer is no longer accepting good enough, when someone else is offering better or near perfect.   My Honda CRV or my Suzuki truck or my daughters Suzuki Kizachi or Yamaha motorcycles are prime examples.  Damn close to perfect out of the box, and the rated gas mileage is almost dead on.  Something I think we as North Americans should adopt or we only hurt ourselves.  Sorry for the rambling.   Just feel it's time to talk when we are not satisfied.   fishwell.    john

Offline TroyBoy30

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Re: HB "Preinstalled" software versions vs HB "Updateable" software versions
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2013, 04:26:15 AM »
youre way over thinking it.  its not that complicated

Offline Moose1am

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Re: HB "Preinstalled" software versions vs HB "Updateable" software versions
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2013, 05:48:59 AM »
this is what the general public wants.   when i spend my good money on something, I DON'T want glitches.  It should be right, out of box.  An update should only offer improvements on selectable parameters,  (IE:  hey, we are offering automatic chat speed with this update!).  If if comes with nuisance glitches like the lines showing up on my 998c or the fact it hangs on start up, then a company should be big enough to say "hey, it's good but not perfect, would you like your money back?"       Who is the guy that decided it was OK to sell stuff that just wasn't quite right?  it happens more and more and it is prominent in the world of software, especially microsoft based.  It seems to be an attitude adopted my North Americans to sell you something that is slightly flawed, but in today's world, we think it is acceptable.  Well, for my 2 grand, it's not acceptable.  The only power the consumer has is next time, spend his money elsewhere.  This is the biggest reason the auto industry has suffered so much in the past 6 years.  The consumer is no longer accepting good enough, when someone else is offering better or near perfect.   My Honda CRV or my Suzuki truck or my daughters Suzuki Kizachi or Yamaha motorcycles are prime examples.  Damn close to perfect out of the box, and the rated gas mileage is almost dead on.  Something I think we as North Americans should adopt or we only hurt ourselves.  Sorry for the rambling.   Just feel it's time to talk when we are not satisfied.   fishwell.    john

I like to ramble on too.  And what you said is right on the money.  We should strive for better software and not accept mediocre.

I too am tired of glitches in software. And I'm talking generally which includes Microsoft and any other program out there including the Humminbird Stuff.  Just double and triple check it and be willing to fix any flaws.   

I do think that Humminbird tries hard to please us and they do eventually fix most of the flaws that happen. Writing software is an art not a science at times.  So be patient with them as they try to perfect the Humminbird products.   
Regards,

Moose1am

Offline RuffWood

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Re: HB "Preinstalled" software versions vs HB "Updateable" software versions
« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2013, 09:15:35 AM »
Here is a list I have compiled over the past several months from recommendations made on this board as well as other boards to help insure a successful download of Humminbird new software. At times suggestions are made for completeing a successful download but some steps are usually left out. This looks like it is a lot of work but is really quick to do if you start with a couple of formated SD cards. It may be overkill to but if it saver anyone any future issues with their unit it is worth the time and few extra steps. If I have missed anything that might help please add to this list.

 1) Turn off Firewall and security software while downloading the Humminbird Files onto computer
 2) Check the file size of the update before and after downloading it to your computer
 3) Format SD card
 4) Export all Navigation data to an SD card
 5) Delete all Navigation data on the unit
 6) Export Navigation data from SD card to HumminbirdPC
 7) Restore Defaults on unit
 8) Format SD card
 9) Download new software update from computer to formatted SD Card and check file size     downloaded
10) Power unit on load SD card into unit and update unit with new software                   
11) Restore Defaults on unit
12) Format SD card
13) Export Navigation data from HumminbirdPC to SD card
14) Power unit on reload all Navigation data from SD card to unit
15) Restore Defaults
16) Pray and hope it works!
« Last Edit: September 12, 2013, 09:59:53 AM by RuffWood »


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