Topic: 997 Locked in a Loop - Reprogramming Co-processor

[Doc Stressor]

My 997 worked fine for me today until I tried to turn in on back at the dock in order to download the navigation data.

When I pushed the power button, the typical "loading" message was followed by the Humminbird start screen with the message "reprogramming co-processor"'. This continued for a while and cycled back to the "loading" message screen. If I hold the power button, it starts to shut down, but then cycles back to the "loading" and "reprogramming co-processor" loop. The only way to shut the system down was to unplug the power. After a plugging the power back in, the loop started over again.

I got home too late to call Humminbird support. Can anyone help me out here? I have an offshore trip scheduled for Friday.

[sonar2000]

doc, have you recently upgraded the 997?
Are you able to power up with out a map or waypoint card in.  Or for that matter any sd card in?
If you can get power up try to restore factory defaults..
Let us know and we can decide the next step..

Chuck

[Doc Stressor]

I pulled the map and waypoint cards and that had no effect.

I'm running firmware version 5.840 and have never had a problem before. The unit has been solid for 3 years. Of course the warranty just ran out.

[sonar2000]

Of course the warranty just ran out.

lets hope that is not a problem....

Doc are you familiar with the bootstrap procedure.?

Chuck

[Doc Stressor]

I've heard about the bootstrap procedure on these forums, but I've never read the posts in detail.

I was planning to try to load the firmware again tomorrow AM. But if it's locked in a loop it probably won't load.

I'd appreciate if you could explain how to bootstrap the unit.

[sonar2000]

Doc, go to this link in the forum.
http://forums.sideimagingsoft.com/index.php?topic=661.0

Read it all the way.

It will take a cable to connect the PC and the unit..
http://forums.sideimagingsoft.com/index.php?topic=3878.msg23525#msg23525
this worked for Doug..
One more thing.  this is exactly why we need a hard reset two button process for the HB units..
Chuck

[Doc Stressor]

Thanks much!

Now I have to find the cable. I know that I got one for my Matrix 97. But the latest updates no longer required the cable.

[sonar2000]

OK as long as you can hook your pc to the unit...

Chuck

[Doc Stressor]

I found the cable and a serial to USB adapter, put Humminbird PC and 5.840 on the laptop,  so I should be good to go.

Thanks again for your help. I'll let you know how it turns out tomorrow.

[sonar2000]

OK, good deal.  we will be watching for the results.

Thanks....Chuck

[Doc Stressor]

I couldn't get Humminbird PC 4.2 to see the unit.

The problem could be the driver that I used for the USB to serial connector. They don't have one for Windows 7. I'll see if it can connect to my Matrix 97 tomorrow.

I just went out and bought a new 998c. It hooked right up and seems to work OK except for a glitch or two. I needed a spare anyway. Days on the water mean too much to me as I've gotten older.

I'll either get the 997 to bootstrap or return it to Humminbird.

[sonar2000]

Doc, I recall something about pc 4.2 and the legacy units.  It might take 4.1.....but also a usb port and some relationship with windows.  I will look at some  files..

Chuck

[Humminbird_Greg]

Doc,
In the meantime; see if you can use the bootstrap method except use an SD card with the older software loaded onto it.  This works but only sometimes.

Also check to see if your Matrix 97 will connect up and be recognized by HumminbirdPC (the 998c Si will not work with HumminbirdPC).

[sonar2000]

greg, I think he has problems with the 997..it should work with the 4.1 PC..

chuck

[Humminbird_Greg]

He could sonar2000 but than he could also have a problem with the configuration of the port connection that the HumminbirdPC software is trying to use on his computer.  That is why he should try testing his Matrix 97 unit on his computer as it does not have a problem.  If it does connect; than his only choice would be to send in his 997 unit to the Humminbird Service Center to be looked at.  In the meantime he can try reprogramming his 997 unit via the bootstrap Program selection using an SD memory card.  At this point he can’t hurt the unit anymore and there is a small chance that it could actually reprogram it.

[sonar2000]

that is what I was saying.  He cant hurt it anymore....I would try to bootstrap before sending in..

I used to say you could not kill a computer with software.....it takes a hammer..
Now I guess that is not true these days..

Chuck

[Humminbird_Greg]

I used to say you could not kill a computer with software.....it takes a hammer..
Now I guess that is not true these days..

Chuck

Nothing has changed with computers: you load the wrong code, corrupted code or a partial program and bad things can happen.

[sonar2000]

In the past we have had "bootstrap" or other selfloading programs to restore issues in the operating system as loaded and not nworking..
In past years there was not a computer that I know of that could not be unlocked due to software operating system issues.
That aint so these days.
We dont always have the ability to "0" out memory and rewrite a base code to get things going again.
Computers yes we can reformat the disk, we can "boot" a self loading restore program but the "computer" devices like the HB is not letting or giving us this ability anymore.

I still think we should have the ability to overwrite the loaded boot program from the unit so we can restore from lockups or corruption with out having to send it to some one else..

What ever we  do in the future is still open, but right now Doc needs some help and it almost looks as if he may have to send it in for repair...if the old bootstrap does not help..
Chuck

[Roddy]

Check out Jolly Roger's Boot Strap post.

[Doc Stressor]

OK -- Here is the latest information:

1. The USB to serial driver is working fine. I can get Humminbird PC 4.2 to recognize the Matrix 97 even without loading the bootstrap page. The update option is not grayed out as it is when I try to connect the 997 and the unit's name appears on the icon.

2. The 997 has now started up correctly twice since I first had the problem. The first time (yesterday), I unplugged the unit and went inside to get an SD card to download my WPs and tracks. When I started it up again it was back in the loop. The second time (today), the unit started up correctly the first time and I was able to save my nav data to the SD card. However, the following attempts to start put me back in the loop.

3. The problem might be temperature related since the good startups happened right after I moved the unit from an air conditioned house to 85+ degree weather so that I could use the power cable on my skiff.  I fear that if I send the unit back to Humminbird I'll get the dreaded "could not duplicate the problem" reply.

Greg, how do you suggest trying to upload the operating system from an SD card?

I already tried simply putting a card with the bin file in a slot when I start up. That doesn't work.

There are some options on the bootstrap screen (upload, receive, reset) that might be worth a try. Should I just try all of them?

[sonar2000]

doc, try the reset first, then load a downlevel code.  Do not put any waypoints or maps in..check out the unit.
Then if it works ok, do the update to the latest and try it out., if all is good then try a map card and finally the waypoints.

That way we can maybe take it to the problem..

Chuck

[Doc Stressor]

Well, I MAY have the problem fixed.

As noted yesterday, for whatever reason, a temperature change seemed to allow me to boot up the machine without going into the loop at least for while. So I put the unit in the refrigerator for 15 min and then brought it outside to the boat. The first attempt put me in the loop, but the second startup attempt allowed the system to load normally. I was able to delete all navigation data (which I had recovered yesterday), restore defaults, and load the earlier 5.450 operating system.

So far, I have been able to load up normally 10X. I'm letting the unit warm up to ambient temp and I'll test again. If all is well, I'll update to the original operating system and report back.

[sonar2000]

There are temperature concerns for the units.
If the unit is stored in a cooler (cold) place it may not work well until it gets warm.
Not sure just how much it will warm just by applying power.
Now the big question: how do we warm up a unit before power is applied?.  If it has been stored cool.
I dont think this is unique to HB. Other units list operating temps also..
Chuck

[xSilmarilSx]

Here, in Canada, we use HB units below freezing without any problems.
So you should be safe to at least -20°C

Temperature concerns you should have is if the unit has an internal defect in some part which only work when cold.

[Doc Stressor]

After warming up, it booted fine with 5.450. But when I loaded 5.840, it went back into the loop.

It may have a bad memory cell that only causes problems with the larger OS. So it looks like it needs to go back to Humminbird.

Since I went out and got a 998, the 987 will now only be used as a backup. I could just use 5.450 and hope that no more problems develop. But I have over 400 waypoints, so waypoint management is important for me.

The extened warranty just ran out in March. I hope they'll cut me some slack.

[sonar2000]

It does look like a return trip to HB is a reality.

ITG posted a while back about new code taking up  more memory. I wonder if the cpu for the unit is getting short of memory. Or paging or???
I still wish we had a an external boot process for these units..
In the normal computer world we can fix so much with a base loaded operating system and reset the main computer that gets hung or unusable..
By all means, do keep us updated on this...
Chuck

[Doc Stressor]

Well, I contacted Humminbird support and got no love. They want to charge me the full $260.45 service fee. With the cost of shipping the unit back to them added on, it isn't worth it to me get it fixed, since it's only going to be used as a backup. I'll try to get 5.450 loaded again and hope for the best.

I thought that they might give a guy with 3 current Humminbird units and a total of 7 over the past 10 years some special consideration since the Select extended warranty had just run out. But I was wrong.

[ITGEEK]

Doc,
In the future, if you have to send a unit in, ask
if they would send you a mailing label.

I'm not sure if they only do that for units under
warranty, but it's worth a try.  It could save you some money shipping
it to them.

That sucks that they would charge you for the repair.
You could ask to talk to an upper level manager and
explain how many units you have purchased, and that
you are a loyal customer, and your unit is only out of
warranty by two months.  You've got nothing to lose.

If going back one update version doesn't work, then
try going back a few more.
I went back to 4.700 for my 1197 and couldn't be
happier with it.

Hopefully, you have all of your waypoints backed up to a
SD card.
If so, then, if one of the updates works, then delete all of the waypoints
on your system.
Bring the waypoints on the SD card into Humminbird PC and go through them and
make sure none are corrupted and make sure there are no duplicates.

You can then re-load them after settling on an update that worked.