Author Topic: Where to get training????? (Read 15348 times)

ctf58 · « **on:** August 10, 2011, 10:02:00 AM »

Hey guys where can someone go to get training for sonar/sidescan. I'm a police officer and we just got a dive boat with a 1198 on it. The department wants to send someone for training. I would love to learn more because I fish and they want someone to get "certified" so they can say "we are the only blah blah blah in the tri-state area".
I live in Western Kentucky if that matters. We are an Ohio river city.

They might let me go somewhere within about 500 miles (Kansas to the North Carolina, Gulf to Great lakes)

calli1 · « **Reply #1 on:** August 10, 2011, 12:02:15 PM »

Where in Western Kentucky ? I live just 5 miles south of the Ky / TN boarder. I have a 1198 myself and volunteer my time/boat and unit for our local Rescue Squad. I'm not the smartest on this but learning everyday. I have spent tons of hours both on Youtube , reading and playing with my unit. This forum is a great place to start. There is someone on here who can help or give your direction. Like I said....the time you spend yourself will go a long way. I have not had anyone show me, I have basically taught myself. Good luck.

sonar2000 · « **Reply #2 on:** August 10, 2011, 12:13:10 PM »

This forum is the place to get basic knowledge. From there is use, use, use and learn.
One thing I have found useful is to learn the unit settings, then scan and operate.
Looking for an object is easier when you have a good understanding of a normal bottom and makeup.
sometimes the target will stand out and other times iit is burried in the normal stuff.
Having a good operational (usage) of normal bottom is primary to finding the abnormal..
This forum is a great place to get an understanding of your unit and then take that forward to regular operation.
There is no certification on the sonar that I know of.
To say you are the only blab blab in the area is not something you will ever be able to say.
there are too many users of these units to be a single solve all resource.
The key is to be very very good and that takes many hours of practice in the everyday normal environment...
We are in NC Middle of the state and would be glad to see you stop by for a day of training...
Chuck

Wingnutt · « **Reply #3 on:** August 10, 2011, 12:34:53 PM »

When I first read this post, I had to chuckle a bit but after thinking about it for a moment, I realized to how much we are a “credential based” society so I can understand where you're coming from.

I don't know of any certification for it. It may be something to suggest to Humminbird as a means of reaching new markets for them.

Chuck beat me to it, but I agree with his concept of knowing what's normal. The settings don't take long to learn, but interpreting what you see sometimes does (but not always). If it were me in your situation, I would want to baseline the areas that I would be using the device on using some software like Dr. Depth or SonarTRX and have a mosaic. That way when I ran across a target, I would know if it is “old” or something new that required investigation.

sonar2000 · « **Reply #4 on:** August 10, 2011, 02:26:31 PM »

Having moasics or base mapping seems like a great idea but in the end it will be a very large piece of documentation to maintain or refer to...
What is more important is to understand what is a "normal" bottom display and then when running a scan to read into the return that which you think is abnormal.
Bodies do not always show the advertised shadow and often more than not will look somewhat like the bottom you are used to seeing. (side scan) When looking for the
unusual you have to keep in mide that a tsrget may be there. One thing for certain is to be able to say the target is not there.
Divers do not need to dive unless there is a real good reason to be in the spot they are going to descend into.
SAR is a very wide scoped offering and it takes experienced service to be of a value to the search.
Training only when there is a need is not the time to learn these units..

OK, I could go on for about an 8 hour lecture but let me not bore this thread.

Robert and I discussed a while back of trying to start seminars to assist in initial training,
but as life would have it there are costs associated with this so nothing happened.

I really dont know where this is going but I can say one thing for sure.
We need training or seminars of value if SAR folks are going to be a viable offering for the submerged search and location.

Sorry for the long rantl but I have a very large passion for SAR...(probably comes from 40 years of doing this..)

I will leave it with this. When searching for a reported downed plane, we were looking at the scans from the 2d color image and soon realized
that we were seeing many small objects that did not appear to be normal bottom returns.
In the end we were able to plot a large debris field and concluded the plane had come apart on impact.
Once we plotted grids and sent divers in it was confirmed this was the case. It took about 12 days to return 98% of the parts, including the two pilots....

Chuck

chuckauten · « **Reply #5 on:** August 10, 2011, 02:28:46 PM »

Do a search for retrevial. There is a couple by St. Louis who have been helping dept retrieve bodies through out the midwest.

Also try Gooogle the subject.

Good luck.

sonar2000 · « **Reply #6 on:** August 10, 2011, 02:30:50 PM »

Something else I just remember:
There is no single sonar that does it all.
Every device has it good points and it also has its limits.
Learning the capability of the unit will describe the value of your service
and wiil define when you need to purchase addition devices..
or call for mutual aid assistance..
Chuck

ctf58 · « **Reply #7 on:** August 10, 2011, 04:26:29 PM »

Thanks guys, in this day and age a police department has got to have credentials for everything. Their (Administration) thought process is if something goes to court, either civil or criminal, that it would be better to say "I've had ______ hours of training in sonar operation and interpretation" instead of "I fish more than anyone else and i have a fishfinder of my own on my fishing boat." We have a civil lawsuit between the victims family and a business go on now that we are getting dragged into and we did not even have a rescue boat at the time.
As far as mapping the river, I guess it is possible but we have 2 major rivers with well over 100 miles of bank and the Ohio went from normal pool of 20ft to 50ft this year so things change drastically from year to year as far as debris. I looked at the sonar TRX site and will show it to my supervisors.

We have some good SAR teams in the area, but we got 2 Boston Whaler boats and a big ass side scan sonar from homeland security and the powers that be want us to use the stuff and not rely 100% on other agencies as we have in the past

sonar2000 · « **Reply #8 on:** August 10, 2011, 04:37:54 PM »

Be prepared to practice, practice, train, train, spend your life learning. Another poit is that not all will be good at this.
You should look for 1 or 2 people who will be your experts....Neither of which need to be the boat operator.
I really doubt that you will find a certification course.
What you need to show in a court is experience.....
Chuck

calli1 · « **Reply #9 on:** August 10, 2011, 05:40:38 PM »

From my standpoint, this sonar was ment for fishing and all of the rest that it can or will do is a bonus. There are many of us across the country who are volunteering time in the case of a search or such. As for the training....training is time well spent learning this device. I have accually talk to folks of purchasing this unit planning to spend tons of time looking, reading and simply asking for for help. You can't just take this out of the box like most sonars and plan to use and understand...most are lost. I know, I have several in my area that I tried to prepare before the expensive purchase and they didn't believe me....now they do. There is NO sonar on the market today that is what "this is". As for training, I would put the word out in your community for help on the learning. There are folks out there who know lots on the operation of this sonar. There is accually a guy that is a friend of mine who charges $300 per day to teach you on this. Hope all of the above info will help in some way. I am always close by for help. I will do what I can. Good Luck and this will be the most important piece of equipment you will have in water search and rescue.

sonar2000 · « **Reply #10 on:** August 10, 2011, 05:57:55 PM »

Calli1....you are right on target...
While the HB does have some offering in SAR it is not the intention of the designer to make it a SAR unit.
Changing the little cover over the door for the SD cards to one that says SAR does not change the internal code.
As I said before each sonar device has good points and limitation. We here see a useful application for SAR but it is not the only unit (manufacturer) we use.
Training:...There are folks looking for ways to make money and I cant fault them but there are certainly a lot of HB users who can help these agencies who want to learn.
We try to promote the SAR part of this forum but how do we get the word out about this forum to those who really need to know..
It is also guys like you who offer to assist that makes the difference.
The bottom line is that after getting an understanding of the unit and capabilities it is solely upon the shoulders of the operator to be come the "expert"
thru usage and experience.
Thanks to all of you who offer their time to assist with these needing help..
Chuck

Roddy · « **Reply #11 on:** August 10, 2011, 11:30:29 PM »

CTF58; Trade in the Big Buck ss unit with OHS for a Low end ROV with Blue Vue and a 200 lb arm, it will save your but!!!!

Goog luck and Enjoy!!! Roddy

ctf58 · « **Reply #12 on:** August 11, 2011, 10:55:29 AM »

Quote from: Roddy on August 10, 2011, 11:30:29 PM

CTF58; Trade in the Big Buck ss unit with OHS for a Low end ROV with Blue Vue and a 200 lb arm, it will save your but!!!!

Goog luck and Enjoy!!! Roddy

Can't do that. Grant money has to be spent on items from a approved list. We got the best Humminbird from the list.

ctf58 · « **Reply #13 on:** August 11, 2011, 10:56:37 AM »

Quote from: chuckauten on August 10, 2011, 02:28:46 PM

Do a search for retrevial. There is a couple by St. Louis who have been helping dept retrieve bodies through out the midwest.

Also try Gooogle the subject.

Good luck.

Found their website and have made contact. Thank you

RGecy · « **Reply #14 on:** August 11, 2011, 12:37:22 PM »

Clint,

Sent you an email. Give me a call when you get a chance and we can set up training either your place or SC/NC.

Robert

ctf58 · « **Reply #15 on:** August 11, 2011, 01:52:12 PM »

Thanks RGecy, I'll try checking my email again. For some reason I have not gotten yours of a test one that I just sent from the forum site.

sonar2000 · « **Reply #16 on:** August 11, 2011, 01:58:13 PM »

CT, sending you email on gmail...
ok I see henderson KY.
Chuck

ctf58 · « **Reply #17 on:** August 11, 2011, 02:46:27 PM »

Thanks Sonar, I got your email. Things just went to hell in a hand basket here and I have a suspicious death to investigate. $:-\$ So it might be a few days before I get back to you. I'll also verify the model of the unit as soon as I can get to the boat. It is housed offsite.
Now I really want to relax and go fishing soon!!!!

sonar2000 · « **Reply #18 on:** August 11, 2011, 03:08:14 PM »

Understand all of that.. work before play.... $:-\$
Robert and I have been talking and are poised to get something set up for you all.
We came come up with some options and I guess we should discuss this.
Call me whne you get the chance 252.430.7731
or if budgets prohibit long distance give me you number. (via email)
and I can call you.
Good luck on the case .......
Chuck

Bobby J · « **Reply #19 on:** February 09, 2012, 01:09:48 PM »

Also when your are training with the unit keep records, we do that in K-9 to show, training of personnel and dogs,that helps in court, with enough training and records a judge can make you an expert witness in that field.

ITGEEK · « **Reply #20 on:** February 09, 2012, 02:58:49 PM »

The best training would be time on the water with the equipment.
Rack up the documented hours on the water and you will have better
credentials.
Research on the internet and look for youtube howto videos.
Humminbird puts some of these out.

Keep a record of everything you read, watch, and the name of all of the
forums you visit.

Throw some weighted dummies in the water and take snapshots of
them and keep them in a book to show the court you are learning to interpret
objects.

Be honest and tell the court you are constantly learning, but you are no expert.

You won't have a formal certificate in this, but you will have some
gained knowledge and some credibility.

It's probably the best you can do.
Good luck.

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