Author Topic: My Old Humminbird 798CIHDSI Blows Away My New Helix 7 CHIRP MEGA SI GPS G3, Why?  (Read 522 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline cat_in_the_hat

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Joined: Feb 2015
  • Location: Tolland CT
  • Posts: 8
  • Unit(s): HELIX 7 CHIRP MEGA SI GPS G3
  • Software: tbd
  • Accessories: tbd
After my trusty 798CIHDSI failed to power up this spring, I decided to avail myself of the latest technology and bought the newly released 3rd generation Helix 7 CHIRP MEGA SI GPS G3. I studied the manual and watched innumerable YouTube videos. Last week I made two boat trips to practice with the Helix before fishing season got going. I used a trolling motor mount  XTM 9 HW MSI 150 T transducer.

I began to be concerned that I was not seeing much fish echo sign despite cruising around both lakes for the that express purpose. I recorded both trips and later at home spent hours reviewing them looking for good results but was confused how both lakes could be nearly devoid of fish.

This is the best Helix 7 Side Imaging picture in over four hours of recording in both Crystal and Lower Bolton lakes last week. Some scattered echoes found here and there at Crystal, at Bolton saw maybe four echoes in two hours. I had the settings generally default which matched YouTube recommendations. I sat for hours on the couch playing and replaying the recordings looking for the best shots. Below is Lower Bolton Lake where you can see my track as I was not fishing but simply hunting fish echoes. I am not even sure those two SI echoes to the left are fish:

http://ptandjb.com/Humminbird/S00027.PNG

This is the best Helix 7 2D Sonar Mega imaging picture in over four hours of recording in both Crystal and Lower Bolton lakes. We barely see the arcs of what are probably newly dumped hatchery truck trout that were released at the Crystal Lake landing 100 yards away the day before. Side imaging completely devoid of fish echoes:

http://ptandjb.com/Humminbird/S00029.PNG

Around this time I tried to power up the 798 for the umpteenth time and to my amazement it powered up. However no button worked except for the power button. This was similar to a previous trouble previously fixed. Dissassembled the 798, blew it out thoroughly with canned air, reassembled it and everything worked again.

Loaded Helix recordings into the 798, no improvement in the Helix views. Loaded a typical 798 Shenipsit Lake trip in 2017 (equipped with XTM 9 SI 180 T Compact Side Imaging 83/200 kHz transducer) recording into the Helix for comparison purposes. The imagery was simply spectacular. Here I was chasing a school of 9.5"-11" white perch. Compare the distinctive 2D sonar, down imaging, and side imaging fish echoes with the Helix imagery above. The first two pictures below are different views of the same point of the recording. Note how robust the fish echoes are:

http://ptandjb.com/Humminbird/S00031.PNG


http://ptandjb.com/Humminbird/S00033.PNG

This image includes the chart view showing my meandering track chasing after the perch:

http://ptandjb.com/Humminbird/S00034.PNG

In conclusion, this brand spanking new 3rd generation Helix as currently configured cannot find a fish in a barrel in comparison to the ancient 798. The Helix has spectacular Mega Imaging views of the bottom and all the debris there, which would be great if I was a salvager, but it is fish I am after. If I calculate correctly, the Helix Mega Imaging G3 is the 4th Humminbird generation after the 798. I expected a major quality improvement, not the spectacularly poor results.

I am hoping against hope that I am either making some serious operational error or the Helix is in some way defective. The joy of resurrecting the 798 from the grave is more than offset by the approximate $1000 hole in my pocket for the Helix, extended warrantee and extra transducer. I am looking for any advice or assistance. I plan further on on the water experimental recordings of the same targets with each unit and transducer independently to see if I confirm my preliminary results or more hopefully find out what I am doing wrong.


« Last Edit: April 17, 2019, 04:37:38 AM by cat_in_the_hat »


Offline ezfishn

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Joined: Jun 2013
  • Location: CA
  • Posts: 72
  • Unit(s): H12 SI, H10 SI, 1198, 998 HDSI
  • Software: 1.64,1.64,6.74,6.74
  • Accessories: Ultrex Ipilot/Link, Ethernet Sw
What version software were you using on the new unit?

Offline cat_in_the_hat

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Joined: Feb 2015
  • Location: Tolland CT
  • Posts: 8
  • Unit(s): HELIX 7 CHIRP MEGA SI GPS G3
  • Software: tbd
  • Accessories: tbd
Software Update - HELIX 7 CHIRP MEGA SI GPS G3 v. 1.940 installed as soon as unit unpacked two weeks ago

Offline rnvinc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Joined: Nov 2009
  • Location: Western KY
  • Posts: 3613
  • Unit(s): 1197c SI Combo, Onix 8ci SI Combo
  • Software: Dependent on whim
  • Accessories: AS GRHA, AS GPS HS, LowBird LSS 1 & 2
You're not the 1st user I've read that mention the new units show structure well  ... But fish not so much  ...

I still think my 1197 has better SI than my ONIX  ... but that's just my opinion  ...

Rickie

Offline cat_in_the_hat

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Joined: Feb 2015
  • Location: Tolland CT
  • Posts: 8
  • Unit(s): HELIX 7 CHIRP MEGA SI GPS G3
  • Software: tbd
  • Accessories: tbd
Update #1:

I am have not learned anything solid to explain the apparent difference between the Helix 7 and the 798. I have gotten some comments in various forums and from various individuals indicating that the newer Humminbird units stress structure over fish visibility or that they do not see fish as well as older units. But I have not seen any solid information on the subject. I have received no response from Humminbird to my detailed email technical support request on the subject.

I am preparing for a controlled study comparing performance of the HELIX 7 CHIRP MEGA SI GPS G3 with the 798CIHDSI. My credentials for conducting such a study are that I have a BSEE from the University of Connecticut and a Professional Engineer PE license from the state of Connecticut, both of which give me the background to thoroughly and competently understand all technical aspects of the units and their operation. In addition, I am a formally trained Six Sigma Black Belt which provide me the tools and expertise to design, conduct, and analyze the results of a controlled study. My experimental protocols, results, analysis, and conclusions will be published in various venues.

Settings on both units will be set to maximize fish echo returns, tentatively planning three types of field runs against the same targets. First run, the Helix with its trolling motor mount XTM 9 HW MSI 150 T transducer. Second run with the 798 with its trolling motor XTM 9 SI 180 T Compact Side Imaging 83/200 kHz transducer. Third run the Helix 7 with the 798s XTM 9 SI 180 transducer which the Helix is configured to use by menu setup choice.

I wish to talk with and have a technical relationship with a Humminbird technical expert to understand the differences between their newer and older technologies, something probably above the capability of most phone technical support personnel. I realize the possible impact to Humminbird if results show that newer units are substantially inferior to older units in identifying fish echoes, I want to be careful not to make any mistakes.

I would appreciate any information to assist in my understanding, personal experiences or people I can talk to.

Offline rnvinc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Joined: Nov 2009
  • Location: Western KY
  • Posts: 3613
  • Unit(s): 1197c SI Combo, Onix 8ci SI Combo
  • Software: Dependent on whim
  • Accessories: AS GRHA, AS GPS HS, LowBird LSS 1 & 2
Please understand this forum is privately owned and not associated with HB in any way  ... Nor monitored by any HB employees  ... (Altho a HB employee does occasionally post here)  ...

I envy your diligence  ... (even tho I doubt HB is going to share proprietary information)  ...

Please don't let that deter your experiments  ... Qualitative results are interesting and topics for robust discussion  ...

Rickie 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
5 Replies
4823 Views
Last post October 04, 2017, 06:33:17 PM
by Stumpy
10 Replies
3721 Views
Last post April 26, 2018, 08:35:22 PM
by rnvinc
6 Replies
3115 Views
Last post March 26, 2018, 09:48:08 PM
by rnvinc
7 Replies
1704 Views
Last post April 08, 2018, 11:21:22 PM
by rnvinc
3 Replies
1175 Views
Last post July 08, 2018, 07:55:55 PM
by rnvinc
4 Replies
776 Views
Last post September 07, 2018, 02:25:53 PM
by steelebob
0 Replies
1304 Views
Last post October 22, 2018, 01:46:43 AM
by Vicus Horn
3 Replies
706 Views
Last post December 08, 2018, 12:08:38 AM
by rnvinc


SimplePortal 2.3.3 © 2008-2010, SimplePortal