Humminbird Side Imaging Forums
Side Imaging Forums => 798c SI => Topic started by: DCottrell on January 04, 2014, 08:51:19 PM
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Just got my 798ci SI HD installed and took the boat out for a test ride, I think I may have an issue judging from the image. Can anyone tell me where to start looking for the Problem. the first 2 photos shows the issue in the water column and on the second photo near top , the last photo was taken almost back at the dock, I didn't change anything and the issue was gone same thing when we headed out no issues. Sorry I forgot a SD card so I had to use phone[attach=1][attach=2][attach=3] .
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Everyone is going to want to see pictures of your installation from several different angles.
What kind of boat is it?
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Unusual because it doesn't look like a normal blockage. But yes, please post some Picts of your transducer installation with full view of back of boat.
Robert
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The Boat is a Bass tracker 175 TXW Aluminum hull, Below is 2 pics i had of the transducer. One thing I did do was bend the live well screen on the intake to clear the transducer. this was done prior to my trip. Something I didnt think about was the drain plug.... from my picture it would be inline of the TD I will get another photo with the plug installed.[attach=1][attach=2]
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As promised I did get some more photos, If indeed I am getting interference from the plug and I do need to move the transducer I was thinking of going with a mounting block and I think it would put the TD out further for an unobstructed view. What would be your recommendations on this? one more thing I never lost Depth at WOT so I think i am down far enough.
[attach=1][attach=2]
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One More Photo.[attach=1]
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This is strange, I connected the unit to check some settings, the simulation now has that same clutter in water column
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Change the si range and see if its still there. Have you updated the software on the unit? If its doing out in sim mode, it has to be something in the way the unit is processing the data!
Robert
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So I change the SI range higher and lower, No Change. I was running the 6.25 and updated to 6.740 software update. The image is worse. Same clutter in column but now worse. I have attached another pic and a waypoint image. This is really concerning as I have no clue where to go now.
[attach=1][attach=2]
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This is strange, I connected the unit to check some settings, the simulation now has that same clutter in water column
The "Simulation" is a preinstalled recording that Doug V made on a lake in Missouri (or Alabama...I'm not sure)...
If there is something in simulation mode....it's in the Doug V Simulation recording...not in your unit functionality...
Rickie
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After going back and looking at some photos that were taken right after the install and before the boat was tested, the simulation mode had some clutter, I did try adjusting different setting and nothing works. The unit has bad Clutter in water column in the water and Simulation mode, The only difference is on the water it seems to be intermittent.... What do you think is happening? is it a bad unit or Transducer?
One more thing how do I get the 6.250 update? The new update makes my images seem distorted not to mention the clutter is still in the water column
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Any settings changes made in the Simulation mode is doing nothing but changing the "post processing" values of the Simulation recording that is preinstalled into the unit memory..
If there are anomalies showing in the Simulator mode...those anomalies were most likely present in Doug V's unit when he made the recording ...and you changing the settings is just highlighting those anomalies that are already present in the Simulation recording...
Can you post more images of "on the water SI scanning" screenshots ... so we can see what you are seeing...??
Rickie
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Not necessarily if the unit is not processing correctly. The simulation is just a recording stored internally and if the unit is not displaying the data correctly, this could be why it is showing on both as well as intermittent on the water.
Do you have a friend or anyone with HB where you could hook your unit up to their setup? Have you looked at any of your recordings in Humviewer or SonarTrax yet? If so, is the clutter still there?
Robert
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Unfortunately no one i know is running an SI unit that would allow for this, with the weather I am not able to get out and capture more images as of yet, I did find one photo that may help. This photo was taken while out last weekend look at the water column and notice the clutter it stops for a short section and then returns ( no settings were changed ).
[attach=1]
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That looks like water turbulence from something to the left of the xducer...
Did the boat slow down during that section of the scan where the "issue" got lighter..??
Rickie
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That photo was Taken when heading out in a Strait shot, Constant speed no changes or turns.
I think I am going to add a transducer mounting block to get the transducer further back for a more unobstructed view, I measured where the drain plug protrudes and it seems that it is obstructing the view to the transducer by 3/4", The block should get me free and clear, I also rolled back to the 6.250 update (the 6.750 update distorted the images too much). any suggestions that might help me would be greatly appreciated. I will post more photos as I get out when weather permits. after my adjustments if issues are still present Might have to give a call to Humminbird Support.
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David,
I would not be as worried about what you see in the simulator as that data has some blockage of the left Si sonar (I think this is the older recording – not the newer one that Doug V made).
Have you ever seen these this when the boat was drifting (motor off)?
The intermittent part has use all perplexed. If it were the drain plug or water intake screen it should always be there until your boat lifts up enough to pull it out of the water and at that point the left Si sonar looks like it would be out of the water too.
Could it be your bilge pump running? I did not see any outlet for it in the pics you posted.
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Greg; the Bilge pump and Live-well pumps were off during the trip, The main Motor I did suspect some turbulent water so I did get the speed to 5 MPH and then Shut it down and tilted motor up and down. The Stereo was turned off and on during the trip to rule it out... I am attaching 2 images that were taken in the same area of the canal 1st headed out and the other 2nd pic 2 hours later heading in, Both photos had basically the same settings. One shows no clutter and the other show the clutter.
[attach=1][attach=2]
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What about while the boat was drifting, ever see it then?
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Sorry, I don't think I let it drift. Most of the time I was under power or killing the motor and tilting it up and down.. The image still had the clutter
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Im no genius or guru but my curiosity wonders what it looks like in contour mode
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I notice the images that have the issue are at speeds of 3.1 & 3.8mph...
But the image without the issue is at 5.2mph...
Can you replicate this each time ...such the issue will appear at ~3mph...and then goes away at speeds of ~5mph...??
If you can replicate the issue...can you get us a screenshot with the SI Range set to 10ft and set the unit to Left side only...(that line looks farther away from the centerline than what the drain screen actually is)...
Rickie
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Rickie I plan on going out again this weekend if weather permits, I will defiantly try it out and get plenty of screen shots. I have purchased a 4 GB SD Card so all screen shots will be from unit this time out. I have started a list of things to check while on the water and post here when completed... I thank all of you for your help on this issue.
David
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If nothing changes it looks like Sunday will be good to get out on the water, I have another question on the Nav chart. When I was running in the intra-coastal waterway. Is there a setting that can adjust where you are on the Map? Mine shows the breadcrumb off to the right side of the waterway when running in the middle.
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Is the breadcrumb coming out of the center of the boat icon or off to the side?
If out to the side you will need to export all of your Nav Data to a memory card and perform a “Format Nav Directories” to clear it.
If it is coming out of the center of the boat icon than you need to try using the “Map Offset” feature.
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Center of boat Icon, guess I will need to do the offset feature.
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Sounds like the map is off in that area. The Map Offset feature can help with this but be aware that it offsets the entire map. So if another area was dead on before, it will be off when you set it for the area you are in – but it can be reset at any time.
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Thanks Greg, I think I will leave well enough alone for right now until I become more familiar with it, This Sunday I am going to focus on the image issue and see if I can get that first.
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So I was able to go out and run a few test today, I have figured when the issue occurs, Seems to be 2-3 mph. I was able to get some screen shots but for the life of me could not figure out how to record. The first thing was to rule out interference from the live-well screen and the Plug, I installed a flush mount plug and totally removed the screen. It did not make any difference on the image.
next I varied the speed. From 4-35 mph no clutter, 2.5-4 mph clutter, 2.3 below no clutter. Drifting also was no clutter. I am starting to think it may be just water current at that speed. The image was outstanding all other times outside the 2.5-4 mph. Contour mode did not show anything wrong that i could tell. Below are the photos Taken today.
[attach=1][attach=2][attach=3][attach=4][attach=6]
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David,
Seemslike Air or turbulent water could be staying in behind the step at that speed and that's what you are seeing.
Does your boat ride differently at slower speeds? Does it tilt left to right at all?
How about trimming the motor up? Did this show any difference?
Robert
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David
In your second image, on the right side, it looks like Alligator Annie's dock. Is Richard still there?
Mike
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Robert, I believe you are correct on turbulent water, It's the only thing that makes sense. I don't notice any difference in ride or tilt of boat at that speed, I did tilt the motor up and there was nothing changed on image. I ordered the transducer mounting plate to move it out 3/4", after the mounting plate install I might try moving it around and see if I can find the sweet spot. I did notice a rooster-tail while on top at running speed. I will try to move the ducer up a little. The spacer block that came with the install to prevent this was installed.
Newkid4SI, That was actually the Boat yard by the old Fire station launch, Last I Heard Richard was still There at the swamp tours
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This is a longshot idea...but...
In the chemical plant I work ..we have some devices called "Venturi systems"...
A Venturi creates air flow from 1 orifice by forcing air (or other moving medium) around the orifice...
I wonder if this can be happening from 1 of the orifices (livewell intake) on the transom to the left of the xducer...
The forward movement of the boat creates the water flow (medium) past the orifice (livewell intake)....which could create a "suction" of air thru the livewell intake orifice ..a Venturi effect....
Maybe try plugging all the other orifices on the transom and test...
Rickie
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Rickie, the test yesterday was done with nothing but the transducer sticking out. To me the picture produced did seem better.
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Rickie, the test yesterday was done with nothing but the transducer sticking out. To me the picture produced did seem better.
Yes I understand that the screen was removed to eliminate physical blockage of the left SI beam...
My longshot idea of a "Venturi effect" is about air coming out of the livewell intake orifice being infused into the water stream just to the left of the xducer...
If the image was fixed with no livewell intake screen in the way ...then you may have found the issue already...
Rickie
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I see, next trip out I can plug the inlet and fill and try that out.
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Was able to get out on the water yesterday, I added the 3/4" transducer block to get free and clear of any obstructions. The image was outstanding at all speeds with no clutter in water column noted. Thank you to all that offered advice and recommendations as this would have not been corrected without your support. I still have the map issue showing my track about 100 foot to the right to far and will look into that next.
When I get home I will post pics of the transducer mount so maybe someone else can benefit from my trial and error.
Thank you
David
[attach=1][attach=2]
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I have the same problem with my 798. I believe it is the lock nut that holds the livewell drain plug causing this turbulence. As you said it is in Doug's recording as well and i have no doubt that it will not disappear unless the bottom of the boat is completely void of objects. I have turned the boat to watch the turbulence move from the right to the left side, indicating this theory.
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The addition of the mounting block 3/4" thick, which seems to allow 180 deg. unrestricted access from left to right at back of boat seemed to fix the issue. Tried many times to replicate after the install and I am glad to say NO CLUTTER. I am almost certain it was the live well screen and drian plug causing the issue by blocking or creating turbulence.
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I still have the map issue showing my track about 100 foot to the right to far and will look into that next.
Thank you
David
(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)
For tracking display errors check the units datum selection and make sure it is the same as the maps datum. When datums are different you can experience off track displays. I have seen maps showing my position on land when in fact the boat was in the water.
Chuck