Humminbird Side Imaging Forums
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: stillbear on February 22, 2012, 05:33:27 AM
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Looks like something .http://view.exacttarget.com/?j=fe5a16787160057a7113&m=fe6615707767027b7016&ls=fdca15727567047d7c1c757c64&l=fe55157772660c7a7310&s=fe25107170670174771d74&jb=ffcf14&ju=fe171772726d0d7a721276&r=0 (http://view.exacttarget.com/?j=fe5a16787160057a7113&m=fe6615707767027b7016&ls=fdca15727567047d7c1c757c64&l=fe55157772660c7a7310&s=fe25107170670174771d74&jb=ffcf14&ju=fe171772726d0d7a721276&r=0)
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Does that mean that our legacy models have now dropped
to the next lower category, of old crap?
???
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A new product coming out and my tax refund on its way.......Boy the wife is gonna be PIST... ;D
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Well,
Lowrance has their new Gen 2 units.
So, Humminbird has got to come out with something new.
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This came just as I was about to order a 898c SI Combo...hah sometimes timing is everything.
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Well,
Lowrance has their new Gen 2 units.
So, Humminbird has got to come out with something new.
Yes! For example 587 DI.
Interestingly, the online stores already offer them, such as Cabelas
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RUMOR is that it is going to be a 360 degree transducer that will work with current model SI units......Have to wait til tomorrow afternoon to find out for sure.
I've been beating Humminbird up for not innovating......lf this is true, they are innovating big time.....and doing it in the stealth mode.
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This Humminbird announcement...ii says its to be announced at the Bassmasters Classic at 2 pm. If this is televised...does anyone know what channel this will be on?
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Here is the address to watch the press release at 2:00 pm CST.
--> http://www.humminbird.com/leading_innovation/humminbird-sonar/latest-news.aspx (http://www.humminbird.com/leading_innovation/humminbird-sonar/latest-news.aspx) <--
George
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George, for those who are not able to be on at the time of the broadcast, do you know if it will be recorded and available for playback later?
Chuck
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look whats on cabelas web pre -order Interesting tho expensive at $2000 for a transducer
http://www.cabelas.com/sonar-and-sonar-gps-combos-humminbird-360-imaging-1.shtml?WT.tsrc=CSE&WT.mc_id=GoogleBaseUSA&WT.z_mc_id1=1345278&rid=40&mr:trackingCode=DB4B183B-BF5D-E111-88CA-001B21631C34&mr:referralID=NA (http://www.cabelas.com/sonar-and-sonar-gps-combos-humminbird-360-imaging-1.shtml?WT.tsrc=CSE&WT.mc_id=GoogleBaseUSA&WT.z_mc_id1=1345278&rid=40&mr:trackingCode=DB4B183B-BF5D-E111-88CA-001B21631C34&mr:referralID=NA)
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Well ain't no doubt about it...That's what the announcement is gonna be about.A transducer that drops down below your boat and sweeps 360 degrees...Can't wait to see some footage of this thing in action....
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It said older units can get a software upgrade. Hopefully this will be in the announcement also..
I would hate to think our 1197 has hit the bottom of the rocks...
chuck
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on older units it says they have to be eithernet capable, so that will leave out most of the xx7 series.
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Chuck,
If the 1197c isn't at the bottom of the rocks yet, it's
definantly sitting on the rock pile (somewhere). :-[
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I can feel it rubbing though... ::)
I went to the web site and looked at the announcement that George linked us to.
Maybe this is premature and I will have to wait for the 2pm cst show. But:
On the web site it shows (3rd picture from the left ) that the scanner beam is able to drop over a ledge and return a display..
I would be interested to see how it does that...or is this just a computer dramatization for the announcement. I dont see the picture as a realtime snapshot..
chuck
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chuck
i don't think that picture is depicting a drop off, it looks more like the sonar beam going(rotating) through the water column
TTF
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Thanks..... ;D
Chuck
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Wow.
I saw the video.
It looks like impressive technology.
I don't trust anything Kevin Van Dam says about it because he's on Humminbird's payroll.
I would like to know if we can use our existing transducer, and also use the 360 transducer.
This is going to generate many more questions than answers in the beginning.
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Exactly.....I did not get a lot from the presentation. Of course we knew it was a marketing promo. I heard him say it was ethernet compatable but the other web site said it was only the X98 units. Older units with ethernet would need some type of software installation. I see this as send it back to HB.,
Hopefully by Aug they will have figured it out.
I dont want to dump our 1197 and have to buy a 1198. Maybe HB should consider a program to upgrade going out of style units..
chuck
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http://www.humminbird.com/leading_innovation/humminbird-sonar/360imaging.aspx (http://www.humminbird.com/leading_innovation/humminbird-sonar/360imaging.aspx) :o
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I got nothing out of the power point show, I sure hope those screen shots end up posted somewhere!! I like the thought on not needing to be moving and still read sonar. but my wallet dont. lol.
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It is probably neat, but do not think I want to pay $2,000 for a 360 degree transducer. I can imagine forgetting it is down and running into a stump or a rock. I am disappointed, I thought the big to do was something unique technology with the units. I did see a little bit with KVD talking about this transducer, but he was just trying to sell it.
Ice fishermen would like it except that it cost too much.
George
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Seems a litle high and I was looking for something else in detail...I would like to see more actual scans and not the generated ones.
I would like to try one out....but my 1197 may not support it. :-\
We definately need more information at this point...Hopefully it will follow soon...
Chuck
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Maybe there is a failsafe built-in to where if you're moving faster than X speed then it would retract. Also, since it's asking for ethernet capabilities, it sounds like you will still need your standard transducer(s). 2000 bucks is a lot of cash for a transducer that could probably get smashed on deployment. heh
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I wish HB would have spent that engineering and development $$ on "true DI" in the SI units instead...
Rickie
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Here is a post from Doug that he told me to disperse. Doug is at the Classic getting this info.
I've been learning all I can about the new 360 Degree Sonar and it's really cool. Seen fish swim thru the transducer coverage and got to talk to KVD and he got to see it last week in action on Cross Lake.
One of the cool things is it is Ethernet Compatible so it does not require new product to use works with current 798ci HD, 898c, 998c, and 1198c at this time. With Ethernet the 360 Imaging will be able to be shared over the Ethernet Network to all SI Compatible Units on the Network so you can have unlimited number of SI units hooked to Hubs and share the data. You could have 500 SI Units and 100 Ethernet Hubs and have the data displayed to all the units at the same time.
You can scan 360 Degrees or forward only or left only, or what ever you want.
It does require the transducer to clear under the boat and outboard so it does not block any of the imaging. It's like underwater imaging radar and it has patent pendings.
Talking to several Elite Anglers here of both brands and they see immediate impact to fishing and their success. Couple even asked about wanting to make the switch now...
If your fishing a road bed, grass line, brush piles you can see exactly where you need to cast...Looking out to 150' in all directions so its the first time you can get updating imaging with out having to have any movement. Sitting and fishing a brush pile has total changed.
Kevin Van Dam says "It the most amazing technology that he has ever seen since his fishing career started, that will have immediate and drastic impacts"
There is protection capabilities that warn you the transducer is retracted.
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e6/imonem/360%20Imaging/HB_360Imaging_FrontView.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e6/imonem/360%20Imaging/HB_360Imaging_SplitScreen.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e6/imonem/360%20Imaging/HB_360Imaging_Bridge_ScreenShot.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e6/imonem/360%20Imaging/HB_360Imaging_Bridge_callouts.jpg)
Sure I'll learn more about this exciting technology tomorrow...it's really cool to see and learn about ways this technology will impact fishing.
I'm on a pretty busy schedule so if you have questions I'll be on the Humminbird Forum trying to get as many as I can fit in the busy schedule I'm on at this Classic.
I am so pumped I want one tomorrow! I see so many benefits to this technology. It's going to be the bomb for vertical fishing you can watch the school of fish and see if they move and where they move to and know exactly where to cast with their position from the boat. You can save waypoints in 360 Imaging...I feel the same as KVD this technology will take imaging and fishing to the next level...All you have to do is learn how to make them bite!
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For 2 grand for that 360 degree view thats over priced i won't be buying one. >:(
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I do not understand the value in having a transducer on a boat that rotates 360 degrees, requiring a boat to be standing still or risk damaging the unit.
Aside from that it looks like a power pole which I would rather spend the money on.
It will be interesting to see how the 360 is used and whether or not this product will last in the market place.
I cannot see anyone in a tournament using this. I did not see a remote to deploy the transducer and would not expect anyone in a tournament running to the back of the boat to deploy it then going back up front to run the trolling motor.
I can see the value in have a moving transducer to give a clearer view of the surroundings, but not at a costs of $2000 and something that could be damaged so easily.
George
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The only way we're going to know if this thing is really worth it,
is to wait until some users who actually fish buy it, and put up review information.
I feel, I won't be able to make a decision on this until the Fall of this year,
when enough feedback has come in.
Also,
I have an 1197 which has the ethernet connector on it.
But, from what I've read, I fear that I might not be able to use it anyway, without upgrading to a newer unit.
Can Greg please chime in and tell us 1197 users if we will be able to use the new 360
transducer or not.
Thanks.
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I wonder about the underwater "radar" and patent pending. It seems to me this is sector scanning and that is already available.
I am with ITG,,,,,will our 1197 with ethernet and 5.8 work with this. Or do we need to budget $5000 for new unit and add on 360....
Kind of expensive since we already have sector scan..But this also makes me wonder if legacy products are obsolete and we will see no upgrades for them......or worse...support...
chuck
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I remember some people doing this a few years ago, and posting pics on one of the forums. I believe they were manipulating the data afterwards, not realtime.
Like what it can do, but the price and won't work with my non-ethernet unit.
I'm wondering if it is mechanical rotation or multiple elements which are are switched on and off.
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Fuzzy, dont know the mechanics on how.....
I forget but someone as you suggested had done something similar to this on ice fishing. And with the existing units. Dont know the exact mechanics on this either.
I will see if I can find the ice posting..
Chuck
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Hers is one posting I found but it is not the exact one I was thinking of.
http://forums.sideimagingsoft.com/index.php?topic=2900.msg16515#msg16515 (http://forums.sideimagingsoft.com/index.php?topic=2900.msg16515#msg16515)
Chuck
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I remember some people doing this a few years ago, and posting pics on one of the forums. I believe they were manipulating the data afterwards, not realtime.
Like what it can do, but the price and won't work with my non-ethernet unit.
I'm wondering if it is mechanical rotation or multiple elements which are are switched on and off.
http://forums.sideimagingsoft.com/index.php?topic=2900.msg16515#msg16515 (http://forums.sideimagingsoft.com/index.php?topic=2900.msg16515#msg16515)
http://www.drdepth.se/xtools.php?l=gb (http://www.drdepth.se/xtools.php?l=gb)
Works live with both HB SI units with ethernet, and Lowrance LSS1.
Per
www.drdepth.se (http://www.drdepth.se)
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Here is the one I was thinking about :...from Rickard....
http://forums.sideimagingsoft.com/index.php?topic=1308.msg7040#msg7040 (http://forums.sideimagingsoft.com/index.php?topic=1308.msg7040#msg7040)
PER....I would like to know more on the operation and how it does this also......(the 360 addition)
Chuck
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Chuck
Our 1197's just got closer to the rock pile. Doug just posted this.
"Unfortunately the 1197c Ethernet componentry is the first Generation E-Net
and the 360 Imaging needs was not planned at the time of it's production.
As of right now it will not be compatible. Due to internal component
differences.
Once things get settled down they are going to take a hard look to see
what or if anything can be done to make it work with the 1197c Components.
No guarantees unless you update to a Current Model which are compatible.
That 1197c has some of the best resell values in the industry and if 360
Imaging is in your future might be a step you could take to update your
unit then add 360 Imaging."
The first person(to my knowlage) to do rotational scanning was WarrenMN ice fishing 5 years ago or so. he posted screen shots but i could not find them.
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here is his website.
http://www.accuemap.com/Ice_fishing_with_Humminbird_997.html (http://www.accuemap.com/Ice_fishing_with_Humminbird_997.html)
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Well the fact that this "super Xducer" costs more then I paid for my 998...I will be holding out to see exactly what this thing is capable of and if its right for my situation.Ill tell ya what I couldn't agree with Rickie more Humminbird should work on a new transducer that has a dedicated DI crystal in it and let us have true side image as well ass true down image in 1package...
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PER....I would like to know more on the operation and how it does this also......(the 360 addition)
Chuck
I have built my hardware/rig from Minnkota spare parts - the transom mount clamp + main shaft
from the Endura series.
A stainless steel tube, inside the composite MinnKota shaft, acts as the main rotational axis.
The SI transducer is attached to the bottom end, at the top a RC servo (USD 20) controls the rotation
(+/-90 degrees to give a full 360 view using L+R channels).
Theres a locking mechanism to fix the transducer axis when not running the scanner (normal SI use).
The trolling motor parts makes it very easy to lift/lower the transducer for various needs.
The control of the servo is managed through a servo controller (another USD 20) which in turn
is connected with USB to the PC running DrDepth. The scanner is activated in DrDepth
with a simple menu command and there is a set of controls appearing on the map
page to control the scanner functions.
The scanner can be run either in a fixed location mode (as HB) or taking the position in to account
to georeference the mosaic (as in the movie you can watch on the DrDepth web site).
Besides rotational scanning, there is also a function that aligns the transducer with
the true direction of travel (COG) rather than boat heading. This improves sidescanning
performance a great deal as soon as there is a bit of current (implements a 'software' towfish).
Per
www.drdepth.se (http://www.drdepth.se)
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OK, so this is not a 360 continous rotation but a 180 left and right sweep and returning.
I was wondering how they would rotate this in a circle after circle.
Thanks.
Since we have sector scanning I dont see this in our future but for teams that may have purchased a 1198 this might be an investment ($2000) over a $10,000.00 true sector..
Some budgets are slim today......
Thanks Per and to DD and Trytoo. We are getting closer to understanding this device..
Chuck
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I still wonder why the Cabela's site page says this:
Requires an Ethernet-ready, Side Imaging®-equipped Humminbird fish finder (not included). Older side imaging units will need a software update.
Leads us to think we can upgrade our existing 97's.
Is the left and right hand not talking again...
chuck
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"I cannot see anyone in a tournament using this. I did not see a remote to deploy the transducer and would not expect anyone in a tournament running to the back of the boat to deploy it then going back up front to run the trolling motor."
According to the HB site:
TWO DEPLOYMENT OPTIONS
When the timing’s right, you can deploy 360 Imaging™ using your Humminbird unit or the control buttons found on the Transducer Deployment System. Easily manage the depth to which the Transducer Pod deploys to avoid grounding in shallow water.
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Chuck
Here is a hope,maybe our 1197's wont be able to control all the 360 imaging aspects but will be able to display the sonar. as they can be on the eithernet hub. Maybe a software update will allow that.
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It would be nice to have that optional display. However I am still concerned about funding the cost. We will have to wait until we can see a hands on demo of the operation.
Dont know how HB will do that though...
Another question.. Will we be able to set distances for the circle? Might be nice to see only 50 instead of 150...
Next question. Will the external viewers write new code to suppor the circle view..?.
HMMMMM.... ::)
Chuck
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Chuck the actual size of this unit is quite large. Gary
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Thanks, Gary......I missed that in the announcement yesterday. Holy Cow that is big. Wonder what the weight is...
chuck
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The size of that thing looks ridiculous.
Maybe it's for salt water only boats. :)
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I think new technology is great, and I am tickled to death that
Humminbird is paving the way in fishing sonar technology.
But,
I don't know why they can't also offer improvements on existing equipment.
Like, for instance, a bigger, clearer, more powerful transducer.
Or, maybe a more powerful chip and/or more memory that you could have
installed in your existing unit.
That way, people with older units can still be improving what they have
for a few years, instead of shelling out the multiple thousands of dollars to
upgrade.
I'm going to keep my 1197c until it either stops working, or until I throw it
into the water. Whatever occurs first. :P
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Well that wont be mounted on a kayak!!!
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$3,000.00 =HB 1198
2,000.00 =360 Scan Transducer stick
90.00 =Switch
$5,290.00 =TOTAL
I can see the long lines and record sales allready!
To bad softwere bugs in all the other units was not fixed first or fixing the POP APART Big Foot transducer first.
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Here is the one I was thinking about :...from Rickard....
[url]http://forums.sideimagingsoft.com/index.php?topic=1308.msg7040#msg7040[/url] ([url]http://forums.sideimagingsoft.com/index.php?topic=1308.msg7040#msg7040[/url])
PER....I would like to know more on the operation and how it does this also......(the 360 addition)
Chuck
Chuck, that was the one Iwas thinking off. Thx.
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Since some of you have mentioned the sector scanning method that was developed by Juha Hartikka and me three years ago I think I should give the link to where that work was presented in detail:
http://www.xumba.scholleco.com/viewtopic.php?t=851 (http://www.xumba.scholleco.com/viewtopic.php?t=851)
This method involves alot of after processing and has very little practical value to a fisherman. But it's a very useful method for any application when time is not an issue like for example when making closeups from difficult archaeological targets. It's also the only working method at large depth, at more than 20 m (60 ft) depth no hull mounted or surface bound transducer can show e. g. details like a drowning victim. The rotaded-hanging-heavy-transducer-with-after-processing method has several drawbacks, but the images are usually very clear. Also, all you need is an SI-unit with recording capability.
I congratulate all those who fish moderately deep waters (and can afford the 360 add-on) - I think HB is offering them something that will make some people think: "How could I live without it, how come I wasn't aware of my own needs...?" (Remember, this happened with cellphones and PCs.)
Congratulations!
Rickard
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I wonder why the screen is not being used to full advanage? While the circle for range is important, there is allot of "black" space that can show more data, even if it is blurry. Maybe, since it is an ethernet device and not a transducer connected, it strips the data, to keep bandwidth down?
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Have been studing the new HB 360 add on. It looks to be quite large also it definitely will have a place in
the great under water world of seek and destroy. In case you are wondering we are fortunate to be
living at the moment when two giants are battling over dominancey of the marine electronics world and I know
who the winner is. Until I see one in action or use one myself. I will not make any comments. Greg can youy find
out what the weight of this unit is ? I have already figured out what I would do to enhance the unit if I had one.
Thanks Gary
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Good question on weight Gary. I asked that a bit back. Maybe they have not weighed it yet... ;D
Dont know who will win this small end sonar battle.....But there is a fight going on. I hope it will end soon. We need some stable products for a while....
Chuck
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Roddy, why would you need a switch for this setup?
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$3,000.00 =HB 1198
2,000.00 =360 Scan Transducer stick
90.00 =Switch
$5,290.00 =TOTAL
I can see the long lines and record sales allready!
To bad softwere bugs in all the other units was not fixed first or fixing the POP APART Big Foot transducer first.
Roddey the price on the switch is spot on.
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I hope HB offers a 5 year warranty on the new 360 unit. If you get out of open water you are definitely
going to be working on bent or broken shafts and possible transom damage.
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Exactly...I might not put this in the water unless the boat was sitting still....
Maybe this is how it is supposed to be used..
I talked with Roddy and he was trying to figure a way to put it on his kayak.... ;D
I asked him to post picture if he did...
Chuck
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What is the switch for?
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The thing is for stand still 360. At $2,000.00 a transducer not to many people can afford to replace transducer and transone, so you need a second transducer for running and SI.
Add $200.00 more. New total $5,500.00!
Sales are going to be just out of sight!!
Roddy
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The thing is for stand still 360. At $2,000.00 a transducer not to many people can afford to replace transducer and transone, so you need a second transducer for running and SI.
Add $200.00 more. New total $5,500.00!
Sales are going to be just out of sight!!
Roddy
Pro bass tournament fishermen have sponsors with deep pockets ...
It's obvious HB has "innovated" this groundbreaking technology completely out of the regular fisherman's realm of affordability...
There is no illusion who HB's target market is...
Rickie
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What happened ? Couple years back I was Ranten an Raven to HB or any one that would listen
about why did HB quit making the GRHA antenna for there units. For those of you that don't
know the GRHA antenna was guaranteed accuracy within 1 meter for finding a waypoint or
returning to a brush pile,etc. The antenna we currently have is rated for accuracy within 3 meters.
Big difference. Here HB has the leading technology for accuracy an they gave it up or don't even
make it available period .Why because they said customers were not willing to pay the extra
50.00 for the most accurate antenna available. Or as an add on they did not sell.Now just remember
we are talking about GPS and Accuracy is everything that is why the satelite you are receiving signals from have
the most accurate clocks in the world so why would you not want the most accurate receiver
available.I am not quite following the line of thought HB has with the new 360 they pulled off
the shelf's the GRHA antenna the Worlds most accurate Receiver for HB'S that every customer
could benefit from because of a 50.00 price tag.And put a 360 degree Add on Transducer on the shelf with a
2,000.00 dollar price tag that only a select few can use or benefit . Sorry about all the Ranting.
Gary
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I question weather you will need the switch. I think its more than coincidence that they just came out with a 5 port eithernet hub. I'm guessing this will plug in to the hub. but then you will need to buy it, instead of switch.
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Gary, you have hit the nail on the head.... :P
It is all about the stockholders.
And those with money.
What I dont understand is how this will support those people. :o
The little guy is being left behind..
Chuck
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If you look at the Pro Bass fishermen, the sponsors have gotten stingy.
The Pros used to have the biggest sonar screens.
Now, they have very small ones.
But,
Pro Bass fishing is what drives fishing sonar technology.
So, it's good to keep those guys happy.
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Reading between the lines, I don't think the transducer is connected to the unit. I think data is sent via ethernet. If you had more than one head unit, you would need an ethernet hub/switch.
I agree that this is targeted toward upper end TX fishermen. But, a 1100 series SI at $3K, people said the same thing on its introduction. If it is successful, it wouldn't surprise me if they released a lower cost, manual deploy type 360. Also, if it is not plagued with other problems, the TX guys will probably eat this up. What's a couple $K when the rig is already $50K? If it doesn't sell, it will be dropped, just like the GPS.
To me, it is normal to see the new, high development cost items, target the upper end of the market, before trying to sell it to the mid or lower end. By time one is in my range, all the bugs will be worked out! :)
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I never heard of this GRHA antenna...But I wouldn't think twice about dumping an Xtra 50 bucks for that kinda guaranteed accuracy
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I never heard of this GRHA antenna...But I wouldn't think twice about dumping an Xtra 50 bucks for that kinda guaranteed accuracy
It was $50 more than the "standard" 50-channel receiver when purchased seperate. It was not a $50 upgrade option when you purchased the unit. I have the standard and GHRA versions. In practice, the standard one performs better than the claimed spec, and very close to the GHRA. Your milage and location may vary.
PS: What does your estimated error run at? On the water, my standard receiver is in the 2-3' est error. If I am using it for plotting property lines, under a tree canopy, I have had it up to 7-8'.
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Point being about the GRHA Reciever which I also own both styles inside that dome there can't be 10.00 difference
in electronics parts. Also the GRHA Reciever should be HB standard reciever on every unit they sell. Gary
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I think when the GRHA GPS receiver came out, the economy was really terrible.
People didn't have the money to spend on luxury items, such as fishing sonars.
Most likely a corporate decision was made to not offer the more expensive GPS receiver over
the standard one.
Used to be that the flagship model of Humminbird was always first in the catalogs.
It's not anymore. The mid priced models most likely out sell the high-end units.
Look for the 1198 and it won't be the first model you see listed.
It's just a sign of the times.
You can't blame Humminbird for offering what most likely will sell at a given time.
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Sorry, changed my mind after reading the rest of the posts here. I did not notice that this was a RB&G post.