Humminbird Side Imaging Forums

General => General Discussion => Topic started by: fish7777 on October 04, 2011, 08:47:54 PM

Title: Calling all rocket scientists
Post by: fish7777 on October 04, 2011, 08:47:54 PM: Hello all,

I'm a newbie to the site as well as the Side Imaging world. Years ago I graduated from a flasher unit to a basic fish finder to a near-top-of-the-line Eagle to a HB Matrix 37...which quit working last year. So I decided to purchase an 898c SI which is scheduled for delivery tomorrow. I've looked at quite a bit of information on this site and it is really a fantastic site. I ordered the Screen Patronous screen protector and the Sternmate mounting system, both of which seem well worth the money.

However, after reading the forums for several hours, I think I'm more confused than when I began; my head is spinning. All I want is a dependable Side Scan unit that's easy to use, but I'm a little apprehensive that I'll spend more time figuring out where to mount the transducer correctly, installing and wiring a TSW 2 switch so I can use my old shoot-through hull transducer so I'll get readings at speeds above 10mph, figuring out if/how to get readings at 1.0-1.2 mph for trolling, will I get clear Side Scan signals if the boat is rocking or unbalanced (I have a 16-ft fiberglass, step hull, Stinger boat), etc.

Are there any rocket scientists on this forum who can calm my anxieties? :)
Title: Re: Calling all rocket scientists
Post by: fish7777 on October 04, 2011, 09:01:02 PM: By the way, here are pictures of the transom if anyone has advice on where to mount the Side Scan transducer.
Title: Re: Calling all rocket scientists
Post by: Roddy on October 04, 2011, 10:47:20 PM: Fish7777, This is EZ. 1. 15 inch outboard of motor mount.
2. Well outboard of the hull step.
3. It looks like there is a good spot in pix #2 just inboard of the tiedown strap and just off center to the left of the trl bunk.

That is the spot for me. Post some pix of the instal when finished.

Good Luck and Enjoy! Roddy
Title: Re: Calling all rocket scientists
Post by: fish7777 on October 04, 2011, 10:59:18 PM: Thanks so much Roddy. That's what I was thinking of. However, if the Sternmate adds 2-inches and the SI transducer is 6-inches long, I'm concerned that my outboard motor and/or that my aft-mounted trolling motor ( not transom-mounted and is used for trolling only) will cause interference with the beam. Thus I was thinking of mounting the transducer a few inches starboard of the drain hole; the transducer should still be protected in this area from hitting bottom in case I accidentally ground the boat.

Thanks again Roddy,

John
Title: Re: Calling all rocket scientists
Post by: Roddy on October 05, 2011, 01:21:56 AM: John, Don't mount on the step, The xducer will mess up the water flow to the prop=Power loss big time!!!!! I'am not a fan of Sternmate on glass boats, and the added 2 inches adds to the motor shaft interferance. As for the trolling motor, if it can mounted on the other side far away from the xducer it might be OK ? And now the shot thru hull xducer, the hull can't be hallo if it is sound wave can't pass thru. Check with boat MFG for info on your boat hull and use a xducer Poting Compound. Not RTV, Fiberglass putty or glue. And now to the xducer switch.Be carefull if switch is moved to POS 1 or 2 and a xducer is not installed on that POS the HB SI/DI unit will FRY/COOK/FAIL/TOTAL OUT $$$$$.

Good Luck and Enjoy Roddy
Title: Re: Calling all rocket scientists
Post by: ITGEEK on October 05, 2011, 08:46:14 AM: I'm not a rocket scientist, but here's my 2 cents.
I would advise you to take as much time as necessary to
decide where to put your transducer. In my opinion, it's the single most
important aspect to the whole installation.
People who have made the right tranducer mounting choices are very happy with their systems.
The others are unhappy and blame Humminbird for their poor system performance.

First of all, I would get a transducer pad/mount and
install that in the area that you finally decide to use.
That way, you only have to put two holes in your transom. You may need to make
several transducer adjustments before you're happy with the performance, so don't look at the
first transducer install as the final one.

I agree with Roddy's #3. It looks like there is a good spot in pix #2 just inboard of the tiedown strap and just off center to the left of the trl bunk.
The only problem is that I'm not sure you have enough room under your motor mount to
clear the left side-image beam.

You may have to adjust the transducer up a little if you are getting too much aerated
water around it.

If you're going to be big with SI, then I would install a transducer on each side with a
switch. That way, you will absolutely have no obstructions.
You'll also need two transducer mounting pads/mounts.

Good Luck.
Title: Re: Calling all rocket scientists
Post by: sonar2000 on October 05, 2011, 09:14:06 AM: Because of the problems with the HDSI transducer and location, we chose to mount the ducer on a trolling motor shaft and modified the locking tab with a rubber band. this way we can place the ducer where we want and rotate it out of the way for planeing speed..
Have hit logs and it always slides over and does not damage the ducer...
Chuck
Title: Re: Calling all rocket scientists
Post by: fish7777 on October 05, 2011, 12:36:22 PM: Thanks ITGEEK. Great suggestion about trial-and-error until I get the location right. Since I will want to see both sides at once (trolling, looking for schools of fish in open water), I've got to figure out a way to use one transducer rather than continually flipping the switch from one transducer to the other.

Chuck, thanks also for your idea. It may not suit my needs but I really appreciate your thoughts.

Wow, this is really a great site! I can't imagine where I would have ended up without all the great information and helpful folks.
Title: Re: Calling all rocket scientists
Post by: Roddy on October 05, 2011, 04:45:30 PM: Post some pix of the install and screen shots! Roddy >:D
Title: Re: Calling all rocket scientists
Post by: fish7777 on October 05, 2011, 04:51:54 PM: Will do Roddy. I'm waiting on my Sternmate and the JohnnyRay swivel mount to come in.
Title: Re: Calling all rocket scientists
Post by: Drifter on October 05, 2011, 05:00:54 PM: Just a shade tree mechanic here, but if the Matrix 37 transducer is compatible with your new unit, you might look at using a Y splitter cable instead of a switch.

Quote
YAS SIDB Y ~ Side Imaging Splitter Cable
Y Cable - Side Imaging and Dual Beam - allows you to use two transducers on one unit without the use of a transducer switch. For use with Side Imaging products only, in conjunction with a dual beam transducer only. For improved high speed performance for bottom tracking.
Title: Re: Calling all rocket scientists
Post by: fish7777 on October 05, 2011, 05:40:29 PM: Thanks Drifter. I asked HB this question, and they said the Matrix37 Quadra Beam transducer is compatible with the 828 unit. I wonder how it (a Y-splitter) would work if the 828 Unit is constantly getting signals from 2 different kinds of transducers...1 Side Imaging and 1 Quadra Beam? Wonder what the screen output would look like?
Title: Re: Calling all rocket scientists
Post by: Drifter on October 05, 2011, 06:34:41 PM: fish7777,

Sorry, I didn't know you had the QB 'ducer. For it I think you would need to use a switch. I've run a Quadra Beam through a 997c SI using the old TS2-W switch. There is an option for using the QB on the transducer selection menu. I used a towfish for the test run. The towfish helps reduce the effect of hull movement on the sonar capture.

click to enlarge >(http://limbatus.net/info/Towfishing/tm/picture-008.jpg) (http://limbatus.net/info/Towfishing/lg/picture-008.jpg)

The quad view output was better in color than it was on the 737, but I didn't see any advantage for my usage (saltwater ~ shallow ~ up to thirty feet deep). I could see the advantage at high speed with your shoot-through hull setup.

Darrell

PS ~ The current model switch is the TS3 ...
Quote
TS3 ~ Transducer Switch
New for 2011
This switch allows you to use two transducers on one depth sounder. The cable going to the depth finder is approximately 3.5 feet long and the two cables going to the transducers are approximately 24 inches long.
Title: Re: Calling all rocket scientists
Post by: fish7777 on October 06, 2011, 01:01:54 PM: OK Fellas, I'm really stumped. With the outboard motor trimmed down, I only have 5-inches clearance between the transom and the motor. Adding my trolling motor, I only have about 3-inches clearance. So the SI transducer will definitely not work on the transom.

What would be the downside if I go just starboard of the drain plug, right under the step? The transducer will always be in the water and would have no obstructions to the beam. See the picture below.

Roddy, your comment about water flow to the prop being impeded resulting in big-time power loss is a good one. However, I would think that the lower part of the hull, below the stepdown (i.e., "keel" for lack of a better term) would prevent any turbulence from the transducer because the transducer wouldn't be in the "water stream" when on plane.

I can see how the turbulence behind the "keel" would prevent a good signal at speed, but it appears this is my best choice. Besides, from what I've read on here, the SI transducer doesn't read well at planing speeds anyway.

I really appreciate everyone's help. I'm a little concerned about not being able to find a place for the SI transducer,

John
Title: Re: Calling all rocket scientists
Post by: fish7777 on October 06, 2011, 01:02:53 PM: See if I can get the picture attached this time :)
Title: Re: Calling all rocket scientists
Post by: fish7777 on October 06, 2011, 01:04:20 PM: Well, it looks like I can't attach a pdf picture.
Title: Re: Calling all rocket scientists
Post by: ITGEEK on October 06, 2011, 03:03:54 PM: Fish7777,
I can see the pdf picture you attached.
Title: Re: Calling all rocket scientists
Post by: fish7777 on October 06, 2011, 03:25:34 PM: That's good ITGEEK; I can't see it.

Thanks for letting me know. FWIW, I called Humminbird and they said the turbulence caused behind the keel could snap the transducer. My boat only runs 30mph max so I don't know if that would be a problem. Maybe I should start a tread "Calling all hydrodamics engineers" :)
Title: Re: Calling all rocket scientists
Post by: Roddy on October 06, 2011, 04:56:35 PM: John, Stay away from the step!!!!
Just trim the motor up at real low speeds.
Thank of feeding the xducer to the prop. :o
Roddy
Title: Re: Calling all rocket scientists
Post by: fish7777 on October 06, 2011, 05:07:39 PM: Good point Roddy. If the transducer were to come off the step, it would certainly be prop food :( unless the cable would swing it up and away.

I think your suggestion of trimming the motor is a good one. I'll have to finagle my aft trolling motor mount but I think that's do-able.

You guys are really great to be so helpful!!!

John
Title: Re: Calling all rocket scientists
Post by: Roddy on October 07, 2011, 01:03:38 AM: On my skinny water boat I have two hull mounted trolling motors, on the trim tabs works good. >:D
Title: Re: Calling all rocket scientists
Post by: Humminbird_Greg on October 10, 2011, 12:43:29 PM: John,
A little late to the party here but… I have designed and launched my own rockets when I was much younger and I have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express before!
How much room is there between the trolling motor and the transom when it is in the running position?
Any reason why you could not mount the HDSi transducer to the left side of your main motor?
The HDSi transducer can break (as can anything) but I have not heard of a lot of reports of this. I know many bass boat owners who have successfully mounted their transducers on the vertical face of the step with no problems. However, you will not know if you have a water flow problem until after the transducer is mounted.

If you want to use that QuadraBeam transducer for water depth and 2D sonar readings only (not the extra quadra side beams), then you could use the AS-Si-DB-Y cable for this and not have to make any menu adjustments.