Author Topic: Bad unit or bad settings? (Read 39476 times)

DWilks · « **on:** May 19, 2013, 10:51:01 AM »

What HB 798 shows vs what Humviewer shows. Is this
a simple settings problem or is that trolling motor interference or what? This unit is useless on the water because I have to view what's under the boat back at
home with Humviewer......and then it's too far to cast to
the spot because I'm then 25 miles from it!!! Any help
or suggestions would greatly be appreciated!!!

Kimi · « **Reply #1 on:** May 19, 2013, 04:20:33 PM »

Hi.. Try to make some adjustments whit sensitivity settings. Could you show us some more pics and in greytone. SI and sonar pics would probably show us something more, than just a singel DI pic. Anyway the pixels on your screen looks quite big ?

Kimi..

DWilks · « **Reply #2 on:** May 19, 2013, 04:44:17 PM »

Tks for the suggestions, Kimi. Pixels is about all I see. I went back to all default settings and made adjustments and even
watched a video done by Doug Vahrenberg on UTube and tried the same adjustments he was using with not much change. It will be some time tomorrow before I can post more pics, but I will post each screen that's available and post.....thanks again. I hope to get back on the water within the next two weeks and record more.

DWilks · « **Reply #3 on:** May 19, 2013, 05:56:49 PM »

some grey scale pics of mostly pixels! The DI seems to be useless
so far. I now have 35 hours on my 798 unit and only about 10 hours of that is on the water. The rest of the hours is powered up inside my house trying to figure out what's on the screen!!! I have now owned my unit for about 13 months! If I could see what Humviewer shows, the unit would be worth every dollar spent.

promapper · « **Reply #4 on:** May 19, 2013, 10:17:49 PM »

Almost looks like the data is being stretched??? chart speed vs boat speed??? just a wild guess

DWilks · « **Reply #5 on:** May 19, 2013, 10:39:11 PM »

promapper, thanks for taking a stab at the problem. I tried to keep my chart speed the same as my boat speed but could not monitor that at all times. All I see is pixels and way too much of them. My pictures do not look like what most people have posted and I would be really satisfied if mine were close to what I've seen posted. I hope to get back out on the water soon and test some more and record.
It seems to me that I'm getting good signals from the transducer because Humviewer shows a lot of info but the unit itself mostly just shows pixels like I'm zoomed in on all the captures therefore it shows square pixels!..just my thoughts on what I see....Maybe someone has seen this problem and can identify what's causing it....hopefully

Kimi · « **Reply #6 on:** May 20, 2013, 09:42:36 AM »

The Humviewer shows that the transducer and signal prosessing seems to work. But there is something wrong whit the picture quality on the screen.
I assume that you have correct voltage in your unit?

My advice! Take it back to your dealer. Hope you still got warranty time left!

Kimi

Humminbird_Greg · « **Reply #7 on:** May 20, 2013, 02:41:22 PM »

DWilks,
Try resetting your unit back to the factory settings and post a few more snapshots. Neither the 2D sonar nor the Si/Di sonar looks right to me. The sonar returns in the 2D sonar look way too strong and the left Si sonar looks very weak when compared to the right Si sonar (which will help make the Di sonar appear even weaker).

If possible; test your 798 unit on someone else’s boat that has a Humminbird Si unit (any model), If it’s a larger 800/900 or 1100 series Si model just take the connectors out and plug in the power and transducer by hand to test with. Testing their unit on your boat will help troubleshoot this too.

DWilks · « **Reply #8 on:** May 22, 2013, 07:31:07 AM »

Greg, thanks for jumping in on this problem and giving an opinion on what you see! I did default back but I haven't made any 'new' recordings, just looking at the old ones. Also, if I knew someone with the same or other units, I would have already tried my unit on their boat....but I don't.
I have recordings dated June 8 2012, and they look the same as what I posted and that was the first time that I used the unit on the water. I either bought the unit in April or May of last year and had to return the original because of missing pixels! At present I'm going to try to get on the water this Friday and get more recordings and if and when, I will post the results. I will start with the default settings as you suggest and go from there. Thanks for your support in this forum. I'm aware that it's your time and you do it to help us....and because you can!

DWilks · « **Reply #9 on:** May 24, 2013, 10:54:39 AM »

Got out a day earlier than anticipated and set unit to 'default' and tried to leave it there for these shots. They do look better than the earlier ones but would like others opinions on whether it looks like my 798 unit is working correctly or does it have a problem or not....or is it just the Rookie Operator? My warranty runs out this month and if it has problems, I need to get it in for service very soon! Thanks for looking and responding...

DWilks · « **Reply #10 on:** May 25, 2013, 05:41:37 PM »

How bout it, Hbird_Greg....would you please comment on the last posted pictures and let me know if my unit really has a problem or is it me the operator!!!

Kimi · « **Reply #11 on:** May 27, 2013, 11:30:41 AM »

One thing that you could try, is to keep a little bit higher cruisingspeed! Many of your pics are taken whit a speed of 0.2 mph. You are allmost staying still!

Try whit a speed of 3-5 knots.

Kimi...

DWilks · « **Reply #12 on:** May 27, 2013, 11:37:15 AM »

Thanks, Kimi, been waiting days for a reply. Would you give an opinion on the quality of the snapshots. Do I have a bad
unit in your opinion or not. Most snapshots were taken with
only the trolling motor running because I didn't want the big motor to affect the testing!

Kimi · « **Reply #13 on:** May 27, 2013, 04:22:58 PM »

I think the quality could be better. The pixels on DI and sonar images looks big!
The SI screenshots looks ok, the speed was something about 2,9 mph

As you can see in my screenshot, taken by 798ci, the pixels on the sonar and DI are smaller, ewen if the picture quality isn't the best.

Try again whit higher speed. I think there is still some hope!

To get good quality on your screenshot, you got to drive whit constant speed at 3-5 knots.
The boat has to move straight. The settings has to be moderate. And of course, good acoustic conditions in the water!

Kimi..

DWilks · « **Reply #14 on:** May 27, 2013, 04:38:26 PM »

Thanks Kimi, the pixels all look like it's been zoomed in and won't come out of zoom. I ordered via phone and the dealer is many hundreds of miles away and also, my warranty runs out this month. That's why I was in a rush to get someone's opinion on the problem. Guess I'm stuck with what I have. Maybe Humminbird should also consider how many hours that a unit has been used. My total time on the water is about 15 hours and the other 20 hours have been at home viewing and testing and learning how to operate the unit.....Thanks again, Kimi

Kimi · « **Reply #15 on:** May 28, 2013, 11:12:09 AM »

I ordered via phone and the dealer is many hundreds of miles away and also, my warranty runs out this month.

Maybe it would still be better to phone immediately to your dealer and explain the situation, and then send in your unit for a checkup?
Better to do that, than find out later that it should have been done earlier!

Kimi

Humminbird_Greg · « **Reply #16 on:** May 28, 2013, 12:21:14 PM »

DWilks,
My apology but I was on vacation Friday and Monday.
Some of the images look fine while others look blocky or like you turned the boat or sped up, so it is hard to say what is going on. Make sure that the images you post are from sonar data that has a constant boat speed and direction as well as menu settings. Overall the images look better. Looking at the 2D sonar data I would say that the backend of the transducer is too far down as most of the sonar targets are shown with a lower leading edge but higher trailing edge.

DWilks · « **Reply #17 on:** May 29, 2013, 08:39:03 AM »

Thanks HB_Greg for posting again! I called HB tech support yesterday and the lady said that they go strictly by the Year to the date and my unit was 1 year and 7 days old so my unit is out of warranty. I'm not a professional fisherman and can not just get up and go to the lake and test my unit. Until I downloaded and used 'Humviewer', I didn't realize that my unit had so many problems.
My unit has now been on the water 6 times during a year. I understand that that's not Humminbird's fault and now I have what I have. I will go up one notch on the bracket and make some other adjustments to the settings as suggested by support and test when I can get to the lake.
The lady said that she had never heard of 'Humviewer'. I would think that HB's tech support, since HB has not released some kind of computer program to view the recordings, should introduce themselves to 'Humviewer'. I would rather put hours on my computer than hours on my Humminbird 798 viewing the recordings. I have about 12 to 15 hours on the water and about 20 hours viewing the unit on my computer for a total of 35 hours.
And once again, a big THANKS for your support of this forum and the help that you offer us users....and thanks Kimi and promapper for your inputs also.

xtpmakr · « **Reply #18 on:** June 01, 2013, 03:53:46 PM »

Hummmm? Seven days over the warranty period? Really low hours on unit? What happened to HB's great service department that always goes "above and beyond" and does what is right for the customer? Disappointed I am!! Even though I have no bone in this dog fight I could see this situation happening to me. Good luck with your issue.

Humminbird_Greg · « **Reply #19 on:** June 03, 2013, 12:01:36 PM »

Quote from: DWilks on May 29, 2013, 08:39:03 AM

Thanks HB_Greg for posting again! I called HB tech support yesterday and the lady said that they go strictly by the Year to the date and my unit was 1 year and 7 days old so my unit is out of warranty. I'm not a professional fisherman and can not just get up and go to the lake and test my unit. Until I downloaded and used 'Humviewer', I didn't realize that my unit had so many problems.
My unit has now been on the water 6 times during a year. I understand that that's not Humminbird's fault and now I have what I have. I will go up one notch on the bracket and make some other adjustments to the settings as suggested by support and test when I can get to the lake.
The lady said that she had never heard of 'Humviewer'. I would think that HB's tech support, since HB has not released some kind of computer program to view the recordings, should introduce themselves to 'Humviewer'. I would rather put hours on my computer than hours on my Humminbird 798 viewing the recordings. I have about 12 to 15 hours on the water and about 20 hours viewing the unit on my computer for a total of 35 hours.
And once again, a big THANKS for your support of this forum and the help that you offer us users....and thanks Kimi and promapper for your inputs also.

DWilks do you still have proof of purchase or did tech support go by the serial number date? Usually we are more lenient on the warranty period.

DWilks · « **Reply #20 on:** June 03, 2013, 03:01:40 PM »

HB_Greg, the first unit I received had dead pixels and I sent it back to BOE-Marine. They told me that they shipped it to HBird.
I received another unit on 5-21-2012 and that is the unit that I now have. Last week when I called HBird, Dawn said that there
was no record on her computer that the first unit arrived at HBird. But still, I received the second unit on 5-21-2012 and when I log on HBird site, that's what shows as the date. I have a chance to test the unit again either tomorrow or Wednesday on the water. Could you give me the settings that will affect the display quality the most. For some reason Dawn had me set my unit to SALT water instead of Fresh water
along with the rest at default with the exceptions of 50ft depth, and SI to only 50ft. Sorry, just saw your post. For some reason, your replies don't generate an email notice but others do!

DWilks · « **Reply #21 on:** June 03, 2013, 03:15:40 PM »

I placed a 1 x 2 flat to the bottom of the boat to show it in relationship to the angle of the transducer. You suggested that I might need to raise the back of the transducer but when I do, it is more raised than when it was lower.....in other words, the notches in the transducer holder are a little bit too far apart. I will still try that though. Here are two pics to see placement. And a big Thanks for your help !!!

Humminbird_Greg · « **Reply #22 on:** June 03, 2013, 04:51:30 PM »

DWilks,
You will have to rotate those notched parts of the transducer to get a different angle. You may not remember them but they set the angle of the transducer. Don’t worry too much about the transducer angle just yet though as it would not cause the blurriness or large pixels you have posted images of.

There are many menus that will affect the sonar display quality. Instead I would reset the unit to the factory settings like you did before. Set the Si Range to 2 to 3X the water depth, the Chart Speed at 3 or 4 and run your boat at 3 to 4 mph but do so in a straight line to see if those images clear up any. Steady speed and steady course will make the best screen snapshots and will rule out some outside influences as far as the sonar goes.

DWilks · « **Reply #23 on:** June 03, 2013, 05:11:17 PM »

Thanks HB_Greg! I do know, and thought that I implied that with my last post, all about the notches. I set the angle using an inclinometer which I used to use to set satellite dishes with.
I will post back after the trip either tomorrow or Wednesday.
Guessing that you didn't see anything wrong in the two views of the xducer mounting or you would have mentioned it.

Humminbird_Greg · « **Reply #24 on:** June 04, 2013, 10:09:05 AM »

No, the mounting looked good.

DWilks · « **Reply #25 on:** June 05, 2013, 09:14:47 AM »

Yesterday's results: set to factory defaults with exceptions of SI=50 ft, Water type = Salt(later changed to Fresh and saw no difference). Kept chart speed to boat speed as much as possible. Recorded with and without main motor running. When main motor off, was using trolling motor.
Also kept boat in a straight line. HB_Greg, Pulled boat out of water and adjusted xducer one notch up(rear up more as you suggested) and saw some improvement in quality. Pics included:

D S · « **Reply #26 on:** June 05, 2013, 11:32:07 AM »

one thing i have noticed on my 798 is if you want the GREAT images dont expect them when recording!
look at the same area with the recording option turned off and then compare ,
i bet u will see a dramatic improvement. at least seems to do this on mine....
i wonder if the processor in the 798 doesn't quite have enough speed while trying to do both...?
i will either record or look at display to see good images ..NOT able to do both at same time
ds

rnvinc · « **Reply #27 on:** June 05, 2013, 01:54:39 PM »

Some of your pix seem pixelated (but uniform pixelation) all the way thru the history showing on the display...

Some of your pix seem that a setting (or settings) was changed during the history view when the screenshot was taken...

For example...looking at the section of history under the "4" in the digital temp box....did you change a setting when this section was being processed and plotted at the right of the screen.... and then change it to something else ..and then allow then the display to scroll ...before taking this screenshot...??

Rickie

DWilks · « **Reply #28 on:** June 05, 2013, 05:52:03 PM »

rnvinc, I didn't make any changes while the unit was recording. I made changes after stopping recordings and then start another recording. The .png's posted are snapshots of the screen while playing back a recording.
@ dave steeg, you may be right about the speed of the processor, but I think HBird_Greg would have mentioned that.

rnvinc · « **Reply #29 on:** June 05, 2013, 06:57:25 PM »

Did you make any changes while during playback that would attribute to the first section of the image to be really pixelated and then then not as pixelated as indicated under the "4" in the digital readout box...

There is definately a change midstream history in some of your images...(sometimes more than one change in the history showing in the screenshot)...

I'm trying to determine if you made settings changes and then snapped the screenshot...or did the unit change on its own when the display changes from "very pixelated" to "not so pixelated"...

Rickie

DWilks · « **Reply #30 on:** June 05, 2013, 09:56:48 PM »

rnvinc, I had to find the recording and where the shot was taken. Humviewer does indicate that that .dat file has errors and it could be at that particular time frame. Anyway, the error does not appear in the recording when I played it back again. What I did was play it back and use my camera to take a snapshot and you can see that it doesn't have the same look! Thanks for being so observant. I think that I had the playback in fast play mode and that might have caused the problem with that shot....or, I recorded the same spot more than once. Here's the original as recorded:

Humminbird_Greg · « **Reply #31 on:** June 06, 2013, 09:17:23 AM »

Quote from: DWilks on June 05, 2013, 05:52:03 PM

rnvinc, I didn't make any changes while the unit was recording. I made changes after stopping recordings and then start another recording. The .png's posted are snapshots of the screen while playing back a recording.
@ dave steeg, you may be right about the speed of the processor, but I think HBird_Greg would have mentioned that.

I would not discount that possibility DWilks. The image you posted showed much better looking sonar, so either the recording you made has errors in it that are affecting the unit or this si a more widespread problem with all of the 798 units. I do not have access to a 798ci HD Si unit 9with 6.610 software) and a boat, so I cannot test this myself.

I will mention that it looks like you have some sonar interference (the thin vertical lines) in that last image you posted. Are you running a second sonar unit at the same time?
It also looks like you may have raised the back end of the transducer upwards a wee bit too much but it is hard to tell without some nice long arches to look at.

rnvinc · « **Reply #32 on:** June 06, 2013, 09:21:14 AM »

Quote from: DWilks on June 05, 2013, 09:56:48 PM

rnvinc, I had to find the recording and where the shot was taken. Humviewer does indicate that that .dat file has errors and it could be at that particular time frame. Anyway, the error does not appear in the recording when I played it back again. What I did was play it back and use my camera to take a snapshot and you can see that it doesn't have the same look! Thanks for being so observant. I think that I had the playback in fast play mode and that might have caused the problem with that shot....or, I recorded the same spot more than once. Here's the original as recorded:

Ok this is making sense then as possible settings changes during playback...

Here is something you might do to help us get a good "feel" for what you are doing...

In your post #25 above...there seems to be several instances where the pixelation is changing mid history

Can you run the recording again...??

*Note the "Chart Speed" in the Xpress menu..
*Allow the display to fully scroll (without touching any settings)...
*Then press the 4way cursor to pause the playback...
*Take screenshots of each sonar view 2d/DI/SI ...while the playback is paused (going thru the "Views" should not change the playback from being paused....only hitting "Exit" will cancel the "Pause" command)..

*Do not hit "Exit" yet...
*Press "Menu" 1 time to bring the Xpress menu..
*Raise the "Chart Speed" 5 notches...
*Press "Exit" until playback restarts...
*Allow the screen to fully scroll with the new "Chart Speed" setting...
*Press the 4 way cursor to pause the playback..
*Take screenshots of each sonar view 2d/DI/SI ...while the playback is paused (going thru the "Views" should not change the playback from being paused....only hitting "Exit" will cancel the "Pause" command)..

*Post these screenshots of the 2d, DI, and SI views...and indicate in the post which set of images were taken at the original chart speed and which images were taken at the faster chart speed..

This will eliminate some variables (changing settings during playback) ...for us to diagnose together...

Rickie

DWilks · « **Reply #33 on:** June 06, 2013, 09:44:39 AM »

HB_Greg and rnvinc, I am able to duplicate the problem that shows up on the 2d screen by playing back at the top speed that the 798 allows and it stretches out the pixels causing the pixelation for the 2d screen. Next, I will do as Rickie suggest and post the same shots in normal play mode for 2d, DI, and SI. Greg, it is possible that I had the console sonar, which is less than 2 feet from the HB798, running at the same time...I don't remember. It will take a few to get these posted. For my part of OHS, I didn't know that the HBird video playback changed the shape of the pixels for the different speeds...but sure looks like it does!!!....(OHS) <<< operator head space !

rnvinc · « **Reply #34 on:** June 06, 2013, 09:54:07 AM »

Quote from: DWilks on June 06, 2013, 09:44:39 AM

HB_Greg and rnvinc, I am able to duplicate the problem that shows up on the 2d screen by playing back at the top speed that the 798 allows and it stretches out the pixels causing the pixelation for the 2d screen. Next, I will do as Rickie suggest and post the same shots in normal play mode for 2d, DI, and SI. Greg, it is possible that I had the console sonar, which is less than 2 feet from the HB798, running at the same time...I don't remember. It will take a few to get these posted. For my part of OHS, I didn't know that the HBird video playback changed the shape of the pixels for the different speeds..but sure looks like it does!!!....(OHS) <<< operator head space !

This is what I want to determine...

I can understand changing the chart speed during playback would stretch the pixels out....(this has happened is some versions of software for my 1197)...

But increasing the "Playback Speed" should not ...

Can you perform the same set of test steps I posted in post #32 above but change the "plackback speed" instead of changing the "chart speed"...??

Rickie

DWilks · « **Reply #35 on:** June 06, 2013, 11:06:25 AM »

Results are that the playback speed and of course the chart speed affects the resulting display or snapshot with the chart speed being having the greatest affects!!! I labeled the pics as what I changed and I will use 3 post as to keep them separate. Rickie, thanks for the suggestions and I have learned a lot from making just these two adjustments during playback! First set is Normal playback and chart speed of 4:

DWilks · « **Reply #36 on:** June 06, 2013, 11:08:42 AM »

Next is Fast Playback and chart speed of 4
So only the playback speed is changed

DWilks · « **Reply #37 on:** June 06, 2013, 11:10:36 AM »

Now for the killer....Fast Playback and Chart Speed of 9 !!!

DWilks · « **Reply #38 on:** June 06, 2013, 11:29:21 AM »

Left out Normal Playback Chart Speed 9

DWilks · « **Reply #39 on:** June 06, 2013, 11:33:11 AM »

meant one SI but posted 2 DI's

rnvinc · « **Reply #40 on:** June 06, 2013, 01:15:10 PM »

OK ...this gives us good comparison stuff with very few variables....yay...!!

Now...like I mentioned above...I have seen the pixel stretching of increasing the chart speed in a playback ...in some versions of software in my 1197..

I have not done enough recording at the newest software versions to replicate your finding of pixel stretching by just increasing the playback speed....(I do not recall this anomoly on any recording I have ever made...so this one is new to me)...

Both instances of pixel stretching (chart speed and playback speed) is a software deal ...probably in the newer versions...

What was the original software version that came on your unit...??

Can you reload your original version and perform the very same tests as above to determine if the original version also has these same effects on recording playback...??

2 things to consider here before testing with the original version (if its different from your current one)..

*changing the software version ...but playback of the same recording (recording made at new version) ...may or may not affect the playback....(check this first to determine if the issue is the playback software...)

*it may be necessary to also record at the original version if the issue is in the recording function of the new software...

Rickie

rnvinc · « **Reply #41 on:** June 06, 2013, 01:52:22 PM »

Oh...and by the way...

I think if you turn your chart speed down to about 1 or 2 on the recordings you already have...they may look even less pixelated...

This is not a fix...by any means...but merely an understanding of "what's happening" (pixel stretching during playback/probably software related)...vs...."what can we do about it" (lower chart speed/no fast-forward)...

and I agree with Greg...looks like the back end of the xducer is too high because you're only getting the "last half" of the fish arch in the 2d...)

Next...we have to determine if this pixel stretching is happening during "live view" (which I suspect it is)...or is it just an issue when playing back a recording...??

Rickie

DWilks · « **Reply #42 on:** June 06, 2013, 07:20:03 PM »

I went back to the original software version of 6.250(installed on the unit when I received it).
In this first post of snapshots, I used HBird's Demo recording since they are way superior to what my unit records!....then I played the recording that I have been posting on and with the old 6.250 ver software.

DWilks · « **Reply #43 on:** June 06, 2013, 07:29:15 PM »

Too late I figured it would be easier to post the same screen one after another to compare. But here's the new recording with the old software ver 6.250.
Also, due to work needed to be done, I won't be back on until Monday....Thanks for helping and the suggestions!!!

Donnie G · « **Reply #44 on:** June 07, 2013, 08:37:41 AM »

There are some real good replies for the OP to learn from. But I will make this as simple as possible.

My 798ci HDsi was doing exactly what the OP's unit is doing after I installed 6.610 & 6.640. There is NO COMPARISON to his snapshots and what mine were with 5.840. Mine rivaled the sharpness and somewhat better than my 898.

In short, my HB is now at Eufaula because it locked up on the 6.640 update. All of this "settings" talk is mumbo-jumbo. HB has a software problem & I am tired of being a field tester for HB.

I do hope that the OP's problem will be cleared up.

DWilks · « **Reply #45 on:** June 07, 2013, 09:27:24 AM »

Thanks for posting Donnie G, but why didn't you just go back to the 5.840 software version? I think that I will try that and see what it looks like!!
Thanks for the heads up

Donnie G · « **Reply #46 on:** June 07, 2013, 09:41:27 AM »

I have the GRP external antenna which requires the 6.610 or 6.640

DWilks · « **Reply #47 on:** June 07, 2013, 09:59:03 AM »

I see..thanks

slackwater · « **Reply #48 on:** June 07, 2013, 10:01:58 AM »

Some of the problem might be the SD card.
Try moving recordings to folder on computer.
Then full format card fat32.
Move recordings back to card the same way they
came off. Now play recordings see if they smoother.

DWilks · « **Reply #49 on:** June 07, 2013, 10:24:36 AM »

Using a new SanDisk SD card. I would think that my last several post of the snapshots would prove that most of the problems involve the software. Speeding up the playback should not in anyway stretch the recording. Look at my post of HB's Demo recordings and there's the proof.

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