Author Topic: What should we buy?  (Read 9128 times)

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Offline Boriskamp1991

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What should we buy?
« on: October 09, 2012, 12:56:14 PM »
Hi all!

Me and a mate of mine are fanatic fisherman and are looking for a new fishfinder.
I decided that I want to buy a Humminbird (currently own a simple Eagle fishfinder)

Off course we want the side imaging and down imaging feature! that looks awesome! how is the overall experience of the users with that feature?
We would like to be able to make use of the 3-views on one screen (SI, DI and the normal one)
I looked on the website of Humminbird and found out that they got this very cool 360 stuff, but its not out yet.
The fishfinder we buy must be compatible with that in the future, might never know if we buy that.

After looking a bit by myself I found this one: Humminbird 798ci HD SI Combo GPS
but am not sure it has the 3-view feature? it should right?
one more thing, what do we need to get started? or is everything in the box?
Any REAL handy accessoires for it?

We live in Holland, and want to import one (in Holland the mentioned model costs 1450 euro, in the USA it costs about 670 euros)
When importing we want to make sure we got everything we need


Thanks for looking guys! curious about the outcome!

Boris


Offline xSilmarilSx

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Re: What should we buy?
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2012, 01:11:21 PM »
The 798 will offer you the 3 views..

But keep in mind that if you import a US model in Europe, you will not have the metric units and will be stuck with the English language. You will also not have any support from European vendors.
If you can find a Canadian vendors that want to ship it to you you can have an International version for cheaper.

Offline Humminbird_Greg

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Re: What should we buy?
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2012, 01:30:34 PM »
As SilmarilSx stated: the 798ci HD Si does have the three-way display split (2D, Si, Di sonars) but it is a 5 inch display and splitting it up like that makes for some even smaller windows for each of those sonars.  You may want to consider looking at a larger display unit like the 898c Si model (7-inch display).

It can use the 360 Imaging through its Ethernet connection.

It will come with everything you need to mount it except for tools to install it.  You may want to buy some multi-stranded copper wire to extend the power cable if the standard 6-foot one does not reach the boat’s battery.  Use at least a 16 gauge wire for this plus a new in-line fuse and fuse holder.  Be sure to solder and seal all electrical connections to prevent future problems.

Greg Walters at Humminbird
gwalters@johnsonoutdoors.com

Offline Boriskamp1991

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Re: What should we buy?
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2012, 02:39:06 PM »
The 798 will offer you the 3 views..

But keep in mind that if you import a US model in Europe, you will not have the metric units and will be stuck with the English language. You will also not have any support from European vendors.
If you can find a Canadian vendors that want to ship it to you you can have an International version for cheaper.

Thanks for the tip. I did realize you can not change units, i dont mind, but the warranty might be something to think about. How is the warranty experience? do they often have defects or so?

As SilmarilSx stated: the 798ci HD Si does have the three-way display split (2D, Si, Di sonars) but it is a 5 inch display and splitting it up like that makes for some even smaller windows for each of those sonars.  You may want to consider looking at a larger display unit like the 898c Si model (7-inch display).

It can use the 360 Imaging through its Ethernet connection.

It will come with everything you need to mount it except for tools to install it.  You may want to buy some multi-stranded copper wire to extend the power cable if the standard 6-foot one does not reach the boat’s battery.  Use at least a 16 gauge wire for this plus a new in-line fuse and fuse holder.  Be sure to solder and seal all electrical connections to prevent future problems.

Ok, so you think the 5" screen will be to small? the 7" displays are about 400-500 $ more, I dont think we want that. choices.
The tools should not be a problem, I can get that in my country as well.
No handy accessoires or something like that, thats worth getting from the US?

Thanks for the help guys!

Offline Humminbird_Greg

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Re: What should we buy?
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2012, 03:58:19 PM »
Depending on where I mounted the 798ci HD Si unit it could be too small.  If I mounted it on the console where it was closer to my bifocals it may be okay, but at the bow by my feet it would definitely be too small, but you may have better eyesight than me.  Do this: find a screen snapshot (like the one below) that someone posted on this web site and print it out so that it is 3.58 inches (9.0932 cm) square and have someone hold it where you think you want to mount it.  That will give you a better idea if it will be large enough or not.

Greg Walters at Humminbird
gwalters@johnsonoutdoors.com

Offline Boriskamp1991

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Re: What should we buy?
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2012, 04:02:03 PM »
Depending on where I mounted the 798ci HD Si unit it could be too small.  If I mounted it on the console where it was closer to my bifocals it may be okay, but at the bow by my feet it would definitely be too small, but you may have better eyesight than me.  Do this: find a screen snapshot (like the one below) that someone posted on this web site and print it out so that it is 3.58 inches (9.0932 cm) square and have someone hold it where you think you want to mount it.  That will give you a better idea if it will be large enough or not.

Thanks! thats one amazing tip!

any thoughts on accessoires?

Offline Humminbird_Greg

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Re: What should we buy?
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2012, 04:12:14 PM »
Depending on where you end up mounting the transducer, you may want to look at some of the aftermarket mounting brackets.
If you go with the larger 898c Si unit you may want to look at some of the RAM mounting products.

Greg Walters at Humminbird
gwalters@johnsonoutdoors.com

Offline Boriskamp1991

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Re: What should we buy?
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2012, 06:30:40 AM »
Depending on where you end up mounting the transducer, you may want to look at some of the aftermarket mounting brackets.
If you go with the larger 898c Si unit you may want to look at some of the RAM mounting products.

thank you for your answer!
I think i'll mount the transducer on the back of the boat (we have a minnkota on the bow)
what do you mean with "RAM mounting products"
One more thing, is there a major difference between the 898c Si and the 798 ci SI? appart from the screen size? I note the difference in the "c" and "ci" in the names?
any extra functions or something?

regards,
Boris

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Re: What should we buy?
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2012, 01:17:59 PM »
RAM mounting products: http://www.rammount.com/Products/MarineElectronicMounts/tabid/141/Default.aspx#/


The “c” designation means the unit has a color display.
The “I” designation means the unit has an internal GPS Receiver.
So the 798ci HD Si has a color display with an internal GPS Receiver while the 898c Si has a color display but an external GPS Receiver.

Besides the differences in the display size, the 898c Si also has the additional 455kHz Si/Di sonar capability and a much larger HDSi transducer.  This larger transducer allows the 898c Si to have more detail in the 455kHz Si/Di sonar and allows it to use the 800kHz Si/Di sonar.  [Using the HDSi transducer with a 798 unit will allow for the more detailed 455kHz Si/Di sonar but it will not allow it to make the 800kHz Si/Di sonar.]

Greg Walters at Humminbird
gwalters@johnsonoutdoors.com

Offline Boriskamp1991

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Re: What should we buy?
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2012, 01:33:54 PM »
RAM mounting products: http://www.rammount.com/Products/MarineElectronicMounts/tabid/141/Default.aspx#/


The “c” designation means the unit has a color display.
The “I” designation means the unit has an internal GPS Receiver.
So the 798ci HD Si has a color display with an internal GPS Receiver while the 898c Si has a color display but an external GPS Receiver.

Besides the differences in the display size, the 898c Si also has the additional 455kHz Si/Di sonar capability and a much larger HDSi transducer.  This larger transducer allows the 898c Si to have more detail in the 455kHz Si/Di sonar and allows it to use the 800kHz Si/Di sonar.  [Using the HDSi transducer with a 798 unit will allow for the more detailed 455kHz Si/Di sonar but it will not allow it to make the 800kHz Si/Di sonar.]


thanks again for your answer Greg!
what does an external GPS reciever mean? and why would it be external on a more expensive model? any advantages / disadvantages?
So the 898ci SI has an even better accuracy to say it the easy way, am I right?

thanks!

Offline Humminbird_Greg

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Re: What should we buy?
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2012, 01:48:05 PM »
An external GPS Receiver means that the GPS Receiver is in a separate module or structure that will also have to mounted on your boat somewhere.

The external GPS Receivers have the potential to be more accurate but only under certain conditions.  These would be due to the mounting location of the GPS Receiver and any sort of high electrical noise conditions.  The larger external GPS Receivers have more signal-to-noise filtering capabilities than do the internal GPS Receivers so if it were used in an area that had a lot of electrical noise (interference in this case) that was at the same frequency as the GPS satellite signals; the external GPS Receiver would be able to hear and use these signals much better than the internal GPS Receivers would.  More satellites usually equals better accuracy.  Since the external GPS Receivers are separate from the unit, they can be mounted in locations that have a better view of all available satellites, especially those that may be low on the horizon.  They also have the ability to be mounted closer to the transducer that the unit will be using which can mean more accuracy when marking and traveling back to waypoints marked from the sonar.  The internal GPS Receivers are fixed on the units and so wherever the unit is mounted, so is the GPS Receiver.  This could be in a location where the GPS Receiver has some blockage of the available GPS Receivers or will be some distance from the transducer that it is connected to.

So any unit utilizing an external GPS Receiver (even a 798ci HD Si unit with an optional external GPS Receiver) has the possibility to be more accurate than an internal GPS Receiver unit – depending on the above circumstances.  I doubt that most fishermen would notice though but you may.

We just have never placed the GPS Receiver in the larger (and more expensive) units.  I personally hope that we don’t as I would want the option to optimize the GPS Receiver location as stated above.

Greg Walters at Humminbird
gwalters@johnsonoutdoors.com

Offline Boriskamp1991

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Re: What should we buy?
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2012, 01:54:23 PM »
An external GPS Receiver means that the GPS Receiver is in a separate module or structure that will also have to mounted on your boat somewhere.

The external GPS Receivers have the potential to be more accurate but only under certain conditions.  These would be due to the mounting location of the GPS Receiver and any sort of high electrical noise conditions.  The larger external GPS Receivers have more signal-to-noise filtering capabilities than do the internal GPS Receivers so if it were used in an area that had a lot of electrical noise (interference in this case) that was at the same frequency as the GPS satellite signals; the external GPS Receiver would be able to hear and use these signals much better than the internal GPS Receivers would.  More satellites usually equals better accuracy.  Since the external GPS Receivers are separate from the unit, they can be mounted in locations that have a better view of all available satellites, especially those that may be low on the horizon.  They also have the ability to be mounted closer to the transducer that the unit will be using which can mean more accuracy when marking and traveling back to waypoints marked from the sonar.  The internal GPS Receivers are fixed on the units and so wherever the unit is mounted, so is the GPS Receiver.  This could be in a location where the GPS Receiver has some blockage of the available GPS Receivers or will be some distance from the transducer that it is connected to.

So any unit utilizing an external GPS Receiver (even a 798ci HD Si unit with an optional external GPS Receiver) has the possibility to be more accurate than an internal GPS Receiver unit – depending on the above circumstances.  I doubt that most fishermen would notice though but you may.

We just have never placed the GPS Receiver in the larger (and more expensive) units.  I personally hope that we don’t as I would want the option to optimize the GPS Receiver location as stated above.

Again a really helpfull answer Greg! thank you for that, I guess we'll go with the 898 then.
can you confirm my question in the previous post about the 898 being more accurate?

Great service by Humminbird!

Boris

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Re: What should we buy?
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2012, 03:40:14 PM »
“can you confirm my question in the previous post about the 898 being more accurate?”

Not really Boris.
As stated before, the GPS Receiver accuracy could be more accurate under certain circumstances.
The accuracy of your waypoints and the accuracy of traveling back to them will be more accurate with the external GPS Receiver (regardless of whether this is connected to a 898 or 798 unit) only if it is installed close to the transducer.

So depending on your boat and how/where you install the GPS Receiver the 898c Si could be more accurate.

Greg Walters at Humminbird
gwalters@johnsonoutdoors.com

Offline Boriskamp1991

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Re: What should we buy?
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2012, 03:54:16 PM »
Besides the differences in the display size, the 898c Si also has the additional 455kHz Si/Di sonar capability and a much larger HDSi transducer.  This larger transducer allows the 898c Si to have more detail in the 455kHz Si/Di sonar and allows it to use the 800kHz Si/Di sonar.  [Using the HDSi transducer with a 798 unit will allow for the more detailed 455kHz Si/Di sonar but it will not allow it to make the 800kHz Si/Di sonar.]

Sorry Greg, with accuracy I was referring to the above text from you. So the sonar should pick up things the 798ci wouldn't pick up, and shows, lets say baitfish, more accurate. Is that what youre saying?
with the 455kHz (798ci) and 800kHz (898c) does that mean the sonar on the 898c is about 95% better?

I understand the GPS thing, couldn't be any clearer, thanks for that

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Re: What should we buy?
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2012, 04:16:58 PM »
I wouldn’t say the 800kHz sonar would be more accurate Boris, more detailed yes but not more accurate.  Think of it this way: if you made a painting first with a larger brush (455kHz) and then another with a smaller brush (800kHz), the 800kHz one would have finer detail.
The trade-off between the 455kHz and 800kHz Si sonar is that the 455kHz covers a wider area of the water column and will work to a farther/deeper distance than does the higher 800kHz frequency will.  The 800kHz sonar beams are 55 degrees each while the 455kHz beams are 86 degrees each.  You are trading coverage area for sonar definition here.  Most use the 455kHz sonar unless they want a more detailed look at something and then switch to the 800kHz sonar.  You should see the baitfish with both the 455kHz and 800kHz sonar beams (as long as they are not high up near the surface and to the side) but they will be more detailed and clearer with the 800kHz Si sonar beam.

Greg Walters at Humminbird
gwalters@johnsonoutdoors.com

Offline Rüdiger

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Re: What should we buy?
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2012, 08:23:53 AM »
Hello Boris

If importing a device itself from Canada or the USA, the european support stations refuse any service. But these stations you can anyway only help if your device is still alive, in case of a total failure to send your unit to the manufacturer. That you can also own and it goes faster.  ;)

mvh
Rüdiger

Offline Boriskamp1991

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Re: What should we buy?
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2012, 01:31:46 PM »
I wouldn’t say the 800kHz sonar would be more accurate Boris, more detailed yes but not more accurate.  Think of it this way: if you made a painting first with a larger brush (455kHz) and then another with a smaller brush (800kHz), the 800kHz one would have finer detail.
The trade-off between the 455kHz and 800kHz Si sonar is that the 455kHz covers a wider area of the water column and will work to a farther/deeper distance than does the higher 800kHz frequency will.  The 800kHz sonar beams are 55 degrees each while the 455kHz beams are 86 degrees each.  You are trading coverage area for sonar definition here.  Most use the 455kHz sonar unless they want a more detailed look at something and then switch to the 800kHz sonar.  You should see the baitfish with both the 455kHz and 800kHz sonar beams (as long as they are not high up near the surface and to the side) but they will be more detailed and clearer with the 800kHz Si sonar beam.

Thats another great answer! Thank you.

I am happy to tell you we bought the 898c SI.
Now I started to wonder how to give the fishfinder power? Are there normal batteries inside? Or do you need an external battery?

Kind regards,
Boris Kamp

Offline Boriskamp1991

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Re: What should we buy?
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2012, 01:33:54 PM »
Hello Boris

If importing a device itself from Canada or the USA, the european support stations refuse any service. But these stations you can anyway only help if your device is still alive, in case of a total failure to send your unit to the manufacturer. That you can also own and it goes faster.  ;)

mvh
Rüdiger

Hi Rüdiger!
Thanks for your tip! I am aware of the fact that the european statiosn dont give support.
But what do you mean with "That you can also own and it goes faster.  ;)"
Please let me know

Thanks!

Offline Rüdiger

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Re: What should we buy?
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2012, 04:44:14 AM »
Hi Rüdiger!
Thanks for your tip! I am aware of the fact that the european statiosn dont give support.
But what do you mean with "That you can also own and it goes faster.  ;)"
Please let me know

Thanks!

Hi Boris

I mean, if your unit has a total failure, then you should send them directly to the U.S.. The European service partners send defective units not individually :o, they are waiting until several of units has accumulated.

mvh
Rüdiger

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Re: What should we buy?
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2012, 04:03:59 PM »
Yes you need an external 12-volt battery as a power source.

Greg Walters at Humminbird
gwalters@johnsonoutdoors.com

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Re: What should we buy?
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2012, 04:10:53 PM »
As a caution, remember to fuse the positive 12 volt lead with a proper electrical fuse connector.. If you are using this on salt water the connector type is most important..
As a second note: try to if possible use only a dedicated battery for the unit.

Chuck


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