Author Topic: Can anyone help with these images  (Read 16044 times)

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Offline lawdog2985

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Can anyone help with these images
« on: May 11, 2014, 08:20:35 PM »
I always thought arches are fish.  I showed some great arches and spent some time jigging strippers in this spot with no luck.  I tried viewing this on the SI and DI views and could not find any shadows from these arches/fish.  Could someone offer any insight as to some settings I might adjust to possibly get my SI or DI and sonar images to coincide somewhat.

I have been reading the manual and had this unit for the past 3 years and never been able to get it dialed in especially the SI.  I have just given up on SI it just wont work with my boat no matter what I have done.  I would at least like to get some use out of sonar or DI though. Thanks

BTW this is in max mode sonar set up 4.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2014, 08:22:43 PM by lawdog2985 »


Offline LocDown

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Re: Can anyone help with these images
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2014, 11:21:56 PM »
I usually run clear mode with about 12 sensitivity. Your bottom picture looks like interference. Your top picture looks like smaller fish. I'm not sure what chart speed those were taken at but stripers/hybrids should come up looking something like this.

Offline lawdog2985

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Re: Can anyone help with these images
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2014, 09:50:46 PM »
Thanks for the input.  That's what I expected was to see fish rising on baitfish and various arches holding the bottom.

My chart speed was set to my boat speed at the time most likely, typically 4 or 5.

I thought this might be interference on the bottom screen shot after searching this forum.  I will try and boost the electronic interference settings to eliminate some of this.

Is this a lot of surface clutter too, or is this what you would expect to see.  Any tips suggestions are appreciated.

Offline Humminbird_Greg

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Re: Can anyone help with these images
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2014, 10:06:45 AM »
You will see more surface clutter when using the Max Mode as the SwitchFire menu setting.  You will also see more surface clutter if you are using the 83kHz 2D sonar (“83kHz” or “200/83kHz” settings for the Beam Select menu) or a high numerical setting for the Surface Clutter menu.  Of course if there is just more surface clutter, the unit will show more.
Greg Walters at Humminbird
gwalters@johnsonoutdoors.com

Offline lawdog2985

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Re: Can anyone help with these images
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2014, 07:58:34 PM »
Thanks Greg,
I was thinking about your post where I was fishing was on a deep section of river that is brackish (salt/fresh) water.  The water was a little muddy but fairly clear, with around a 1-2 knot current.  Does current effect the surface clutter.  I can also remember using the unit down off Cape Lookout (Atlantic Ocean) and seeing a lot of surface clutter in the screen.  At the risk of sounding really stupid but does salinity, current, sediment impact surface clutter.

Also if I was to adjust top sonar depth reading so that it is below the clutter would that be better then using the surface clutter settings, as I read on another post that reducing your surface clutter can effect the strength and amount of returns.

I fish primarily brackish and salt water.

I also posted some pics of the mounting on 18' Keywest CC back in February at your suggestion.  If not to much trouble could you look at this posting again, I was late getting the mounting pictures up originally but the posting was titled

Need help with KeyWest 18Cc and mounting 798ci HD SI)
« on: January 31, 2014, 09:05:26 PM »
« Last Edit: May 13, 2014, 08:09:42 PM by lawdog2985 »

Offline Humminbird_Greg

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Re: Can anyone help with these images
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2014, 12:36:31 PM »
lawdog,
Basically anything that can reflect sonar that is in the upper end of the sonar’s water column, can affect the appearance of surface clutter.  So wind, waves, current and even other boats will all keep air bubbles, dirt/sand, plankton, algae, zooplankton mixed up in the upper layers of the water column and can add to the surface clutter seen.

Yes, adjusting the Surface Clutter menu does affect the sonar readings that are shown and not just at the surface.  Increasing amounts of filtering will affect sonar readings at deeper water depths.  Try it out sometime: with the boat drifting in at least 20 feet of water, set the Surface Clutter menu to 10 and then, as the display updates, progressively select more filtering (a lower number) and see the changes to the sonar even at lower water depths.  Setting the Upper Range menu to say 3 feet will cut that portion of the water column off without changing any of the filtering that is done to the sonar.  You will just not see any sonar data for those first 3 feet of the water column.

I found your post:
http://forums.sideimagingsoft.com/index.php?topic=6837.msg40504#msg40504
but I think that Rickie and I were waiting to hear back on how the test went with the transducer on the port side of the transom.
Greg Walters at Humminbird
gwalters@johnsonoutdoors.com

Offline lawdog2985

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Re: Can anyone help with these images
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2014, 08:24:12 PM »
Ok
Thanks Greg that answers a lot of my questions.  I haven't yet purchased the second transducer because I was waiting to hear from you, and because I didn't want to unnecessarily  spend that money.  I was thinking of going to a larger screen minus the side imaging like maybe in the 900 series, do you have any other 2009-2011 Keywest CC owners who have had similar issues with getting the SI features to work, particularly on the port side images, just wondering if there is an easy way to fix these issues like adjusting the location of the xducer. 

I am going to try and get on the water this weekend and snap some SI images to better explain my issues with the port side imaging, and I will try and post them Saturday or Sunday night.  Thanks again
« Last Edit: May 14, 2014, 08:51:12 PM by lawdog2985 »

Offline Humminbird_Greg

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Re: Can anyone help with these images
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2014, 08:26:22 AM »
I’m sure that we have had many KeyWest CC owners who have installed Si products on their boats but I certainly do not remember any off hand.  I would try testing the transducer under the ladder as Rickie suggested first before trying or buying anything else.
Greg Walters at Humminbird
gwalters@johnsonoutdoors.com

Offline lawdog2985

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Re: Can anyone help with these images
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2014, 09:34:20 PM »
Okay here are some images I recorded today on a dead flat clear fresh water river.  These are horrible.  I tried adjusting the scan range to 3 times the depth, and matched the chart speed to boat speed. I attempted to use the electronic noise settings (these images were set at high 4) as I was getting what I suspect is a lot of EI.  I am going to try moving this transducer to the port side of the boat but I suspect there is still more to it then just moving this transducer.   I am going to try to adjust the transducer and tape it to the left side of the boat under the swim ladder but I suspect that's not going to fix whatever this is that's going on.

I see all these beautiful images being posted, and I just can't seem to get this unit to remotely give a good sonar reading much less SI reading what am I doing so wrong! Is there a Humminbird tech in the Richmond, VA area I could take this thing to and have it diagnosed?
« Last Edit: May 17, 2014, 09:42:30 PM by lawdog2985 »

Offline lawdog2985

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Re: Can anyone help with these images
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2014, 09:36:03 PM »
2

Offline rnvinc

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Re: Can anyone help with these images
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2014, 01:22:23 AM »
Can you go back to posting snapshots from the unit...?? (Screen captures from Humviewer are difficult to diagnose because there are different processing parameters used)...

I think if we look at the very first image you posted below....the only change in settings that would need to be made to get the 2d image to what you expect to see is to increase the Chart Speed more...the arches are there in the first image...they're just "squashed" together from too low a Chart Speed...



The common recommendation to match Chart Speed to boat speed is only for imaging (DI/SI)...not 2d....2d should always have a higher Chart Speed to stretch those arches out more across the screen...
(Unfortunately, the Chart Speed setting is global for all three..2d/DI and SI....so you have to speed it up to use 2d...and then slow it back down to use DI or SI)....

Your DI images (from the unit itself)...are no different than most DI images from the HB SI units...

Because there is no "down pointing" piezo in the HB SI xducers...the DI in the HB SI units is lacking (to say the least)...

I have all my DI views hidden because they are just not worth looking at...

See if you can capture some 2d images with a Chart speed of 8-10....

And post some SI images from the unit itself...with a Chart speed to match boat speed...

Rickie
« Last Edit: May 18, 2014, 01:30:04 AM by rnvinc »

Offline lawdog2985

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Re: Can anyone help with these images
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2014, 09:02:15 PM »
Thanks Rickie.  I am unable to get back on the water until this Monday, but I plan on using your suggestions.  Thanks that is the first time I have ever had the differences in chart speed between 2d and SI, very interesting and kind of makes sense as I sit here and think about it. 

Offline rnvinc

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Re: Can anyone help with these images
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2014, 02:30:44 PM »
Like I mentioned....the Chart Speed setting controls all 3 screen scroll rates (2d/DI/SI)....

You have to remember to bump up the chart speed when using 2d...(if you want to see pretty arches)...

Rickie

Offline lawdog2985

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Re: Can anyone help with these images
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2014, 02:13:35 PM »
I tried to screen shot images Rickie, but for some reason they didn't capture luckily I also made a humviewer scan.  I bought industrial strength Velcro and tacked the transducer under the swim platform on the portside.  You be the judge but I think this is a much more improved image.  I tried to stretch the range out, I couldn't find any deep water today, but I am getting image returns on both sides out to 100 feet.  I don't fish too much deeper then 30-40ft of the water most of the time so I can live with this range.

It looks like I am still getting some sort of interference all though not as much as before. 

I will try again next Monday to get some screen shots Rickie not sure what happened today.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2014, 02:36:49 PM by lawdog2985 »

Offline lawdog2985

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Re: Can anyone help with these images
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2014, 02:23:37 PM »
These are scans of the bridge pilings while traveling the channel.

Offline lawdog2985

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Re: Can anyone help with these images
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2014, 02:34:18 PM »
and another
« Last Edit: May 27, 2014, 02:35:23 PM by lawdog2985 »

Offline rnvinc

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Re: Can anyone help with these images
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2014, 06:50:57 AM »
Looks pretty good to me...

Sometimes those horizontal dark lines that pop up on the SI image are simply turbulence from the boat hull or motor...wherein there is aerated water in that side's SI nearfield causing blockage...(specifically when the dark horizontal lines on 1 side are not exactly mirrored on the opposite side)....

If the image clears up by slowing down the boat then it's just an understanding of what is causing the horizontal dark lines and adjust speed...

Rickie
« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 06:55:06 AM by rnvinc »

Offline lawdog2985

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Re: Can anyone help with these images
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2014, 09:42:54 PM »
Okay I got a few more screen shots.  I moved transducer a little more to the port side and closer to the strake, this is allowing me to maintain depth soundings on plane.  I would consider a shoot thru but I don't think it really changed the quality of the images do yall.  Thanks for all the help I actually feel like I am getting my moneys worth out of this unit now, as I all but had given up on the SI features.

Offline rnvinc

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Re: Can anyone help with these images
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2014, 02:12:13 PM »
I think it's looking really good....

I still feel you will get a little better images at closer to 2-4mph...and then adjust Chart Speed to match boat speed...(maybe 1 notch higher Chart Speed "IF" you are looking specifically to stretch fish echoes out to be more Visable)....

And the horizontal dark bands that are evident in the 1st image should go away...(if it is turbulent water at 5-6mph causing the dark bands)...

Rickie
« Last Edit: June 03, 2014, 02:14:22 PM by rnvinc »

Offline lawdog2985

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Re: Can anyone help with these images
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2014, 04:05:02 PM »
Again thanks Rickie..The bridge pilings/supports I was trying to scan are in tough spot.  The tide was outgoing so I had to keep a little speed to maintain steerage.  I will try lowering the boat speed and bring up the chart speed to 6 or 7, I think I had it at 5 for these images

Offline rnvinc

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Re: Can anyone help with these images
« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2014, 09:57:34 AM »
While a higher Chart Speed is sometimes beneficial in stretching out fish echoes to make them more Visable...a Chart Speed matching your boat speed will generally make structure more "true to perspective"...

So a boat speed of 2-4mph with a Chart Speed of 2-4 would give structure a better recognizable perspective...

(I apologize if I may have made my prior post incorrectly worded)...

Rickie



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