Author Topic: 798ci HD and V. 6.570 problems (Read 22562 times)

gixxer01 · « **on:** January 11, 2013, 01:54:38 PM »

Updated to the V. 6.570 yesterday and noticed a big problem. I have completely lost the Universal Sonar ll option in the transducer select option. I know the update said it was to be removed, but it also led me to believe that it was being replaced with something labelled Dual Beam. I do use this unit for ice fishing with the 9/20 ice ducer, and not having the option for universal sonar renders this unit useless right now. I am also concerned about what this means for running this unit off of the TM ducer. Am I alone on this one. I know there is another thread going on about going back a version, and will wait to see if that's an option. I just don't understand why an update would remove a feature.

Humminbird_Greg · « **Reply #1 on:** January 11, 2013, 01:59:07 PM »

It was replaced by the “Dual Beam” selection.
Does your 798ci HD Si unit have this menu option? If so, this is the one to use when using the 9-20 ice transducer or the Universal Sonar transducer.

gixxer01 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 11, 2013, 02:32:32 PM »

My transducer selection options are.....Compact Sidescan and QuadBeam. I no longer have the Universal Sonar ll, nor was it replaced with Dual Beam.
I do have the beam selections 200, 83, or 200/83. Should I be looking somewhere else for the "Dual Beam"

gixxer01 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 12, 2013, 05:10:54 PM »

So I tried starting from scratch, thinking maybe the download had a hiccup. Still not seeing Dual Beam in the Transducer Select Menu. Reverted back to v6.250 to get it working again. Someone tell me I'm not crazy!!!!!

Humminbird_Greg · « **Reply #4 on:** January 14, 2013, 01:48:52 PM »

Strange… they replaced the “Universal Sonar” menu with “Dual Beam” in some of the other units but not the 798ci HD Si (there could be others but I have not looked at them yet).

Just use the “Quad Beam” menu setting for now. Be aware that you will not have any Side Beam sonar data in the Side Beam View (QuadraBeam sonar view). You can just select to Hide this View if you wish to.

gixxer01 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 14, 2013, 02:11:39 PM »

I appreciate you not forgetting about me!! Unfortunately the quad beam doesn't Ping nearly fast enough for use with the 9/20 ducer. I use the unit for jigging both on ice and at the front of the boat with the TM. The USll setting has a much faster "refresh rate" which is very important to me.

Again, thanks for the response.

Humminbird_Greg · « **Reply #6 on:** January 14, 2013, 02:47:47 PM »

Was this in the regular sonar View?
What is the Beam Select menu set to? It should ping faster with the 200kHz (only) setting.

gixxer01 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 14, 2013, 03:23:25 PM »

It didn't matter what view it was in. The views I was most concerned with were 2D and flasher mode. More specifically, ice fishing mode. The US2 setting in v.6.25 would ping very quickly in both views regardless of which beam was selected, whereas, the quad beam would ping once per second, if that.
With v 6.57 i don't have the option of US2 or Dual Beam, so I can't test them. But, the Quad Beam still pings about the same as v.6.25, regardless of beam selected. I may try installing 6.57 again since I backdated to 6.25, but I doubt things have changed.
I should note, By Ping I am referring to the amt. of clicking I'm hearing from the 9/20 ducer. I don't know if that is correct.

Humminbird_Greg · « **Reply #8 on:** January 14, 2013, 04:16:31 PM »

Not sure that you can go by that gixxer01 especially if the transducer is out of the water and not reading the lake bottom.
Try setting the Max Depth menu to a setting that will be just a little deeper than the deepest water you will be in. That will give you the fastest transmit rate.

sonar2000 · « **Reply #9 on:** January 14, 2013, 04:20:02 PM »

In or out of the water the transducer will still ping.
Question: if the depth is set to auto wont it adjust to the depth at hand not not a deeper depth as if you had set to to the depth itsself?

Chuck

Humminbird_Greg · « **Reply #10 on:** January 14, 2013, 04:39:46 PM »

In or out of the water the transducer will ping. However, if it is not getting a water depth reading it will wait for the maximum amount of time before it pings again. It has to do this in case it really is in very deep water. Setting the Max Depth menu will limit the unit in the amount of time that it will wait to ping again – depth reading or not.

With the Max Depth reading set to “Auto” it will adjust to the depth at hand if there is a water depth to be detected.

sonar2000 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 14, 2013, 05:05:11 PM »

OK, on that. Now back to the problem. If the transducer is pinging, at any rate,..shouldn't he have the display that he is saying he is missing..in the update.....or is this a code issue...

Chuck

gixxer01 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 14, 2013, 05:16:35 PM »

You're rather knowledgeable, aren't you Greg?

I should reiterate, the only thing I think I'm missing is the Dual Beam option in the Transducer Select menu. Something I would really like back.

Thanks again to everyone.

Humminbird_Greg · « **Reply #13 on:** January 15, 2013, 08:00:09 AM »

I hope that I am gixxer01.
Engineering knows about the Dual Beam menu setting not being there but did not tell me if this was intentional or something they forgot to add, so at this point I don’t know if this will be included in a future software release or not. They did say that the Quad Beam menu setting should work the same though.

Kenneth_v · « **Reply #14 on:** January 20, 2013, 04:18:17 PM »

Greg

I just spent close to $350 on the ice accessories (portable case, ice ducer, extra battery, etc) to use my 798ci si hd for ice fishing.

This post now has me VERY concerned that I wasted $350 that I could have spent on a dedicated flasher

Could you please find out the answers to the questions below?

1) Has this 6.570 update taken functionality away from the 798 that will make it less functional when ice fishing?

2) Am I able to use my 798 for ice fishing as with previous software versions without losing the ability to see my jig in real time?

3) if there is a problem with the software revision and ice fishing, when will it be corrected to restore the ice fishing functionality?

Thanks Greg

Ken

gixxer01 · « **Reply #15 on:** January 21, 2013, 04:24:54 PM »

Check and see what version software you are running. The V.6.25 works well with the ice kit, which is what I reverted back to, after upgrading to 6.57. I have not yet tried the V.6.57 on the ice yet, and don't plan to. If you plan on running the 360 or Ipilot Link, you will be forced to upgrade to 6.57. If you won't be running Link or 360, hopefully you can backdate to 6.25.

The reps did state that 6.57 removed the USll and did not replace it with anything. They also stated that the dual beam setting would work for the TM ducer, but I would imagine requires more menu changes.

Run 6.25 if able, avoid 6.57 unless you need it. Hopefully the engineers at HB give us our USll option back. Pretty, Pretty, Please!!!!!

Kenneth_v · « **Reply #16 on:** January 21, 2013, 04:39:28 PM »

I need a new trolling motor this spring so I might be forced to upgrade the firmware if I havent already. I will have to check what version I have upgraded to but hopefully it is 6.25 or lower!!

how do you find using the 798 on the ice?

It almost as good a flasher like the 45 or 55?

gixxer01 · « **Reply #17 on:** January 21, 2013, 04:50:31 PM »

I actually run both the 798 and the ice 45. The 45 truly is a better ice fishing unit. However, the 798 does a great job of it, plus does LOTS more. I've had some issues when jigging small buckshot spoons not giving constant returns in the flasher mode. I would imagine it's because of their limited profile. I can drop down a waxi jig and get better returns with the same settings. Not too much of an inconvenience. It does a great job and seems to play with other flashers nicely. An FL18 gave me some interference, but we were able to work it out. I think you'll like it.

Humminbird_Greg · « **Reply #18 on:** January 22, 2013, 03:08:30 PM »

Ken,
gixxer’s concerns were about the loss of the Universal Sonar menu setting. That did not change the Ice Flasher mode that I am aware of, so that should still work as before. I think that the intention was to start using a menu setting that described the type of sonar that the selected transducer would produce (Compact Sidescan, Quad Beam, Dual Beam,…) as opposed to the name of the transducer itself. As stated before; the DualBeam sonar function is a part of the Quad Beam menu setting, so if you do have the 6.570 software installed in your 798c HD Si unit you can use that menu setting.

Kenneth_v · « **Reply #19 on:** January 22, 2013, 05:57:50 PM »

Thanks Greg

Because I will be using the 9/20 ice ducer I will have the same concern as he does with the menu changes and transducer selection.

I am not sure if I did the latest update or not but when my ice kit arrives I will power it up and chech the version.

gixxer01 · « **Reply #20 on:** January 22, 2013, 07:11:43 PM »

Quote from: Humminbird_Greg on January 22, 2013, 03:08:30 PM

Ken,
gixxer’s concerns were about the loss of the Universal Sonar menu setting. That did not change the Ice Flasher mode that I am aware of, so that should still work as before. I think that the intention was to start using a menu setting that described the type of sonar that the selected transducer would produce (Compact Sidescan, Quad Beam, Dual Beam,…) as opposed to the name of the transducer itself. As stated before; the DualBeam sonar function is a part of the Quad Beam menu setting, so if you do have the 6.570 software installed in your 798c HD Si unit you can use that menu setting.

This is getting very confusing!

I did as you stated earlier and adjusted the Lower Range to 25ft: V.6.25----Ping rates increased dramatically on all Transducers (Compact Sidescan, Quad Beam, and Universal Sonarll). V. 6.57-----Ping rates stayed same on both Transducers (Compact Sidescan and Quad Beam). Ping rates are very slow and Ice Fishing Mode does not refresh nearly as quickly as it did with V.6.25. Still getting a ping/second with lower range set to 25ft with the Quad Beam transducer selected. Nothing I do increases the ping rate and the real time sonar windows remain useless.

I apologize if I'm being a pain, but I don't understand what's going on here. Can you please explain this in "moron" terms.

Quote from: Kenneth_v on January 22, 2013, 05:57:50 PM

Thanks Greg

Because I will be using the 9/20 ice ducer I will have the same concern as he does with the menu changes and transducer selection.

I am not sure if I did the latest update or not but when my ice kit arrives I will power it up and chech the version.
[/quote

Please let me know when it arrives. I am curious to know.

Humminbird_Greg · « **Reply #21 on:** January 23, 2013, 01:40:43 PM »

gixxer, are you testing this while on the water?

gixxer01 · « **Reply #22 on:** January 23, 2013, 02:48:41 PM »

I am testing this in my office. I have the unit in the ice kit with the 9/20 ice ducer up to my ear.

Kenneth_v · « **Reply #23 on:** January 23, 2013, 03:01:36 PM »

Gixxer

You need to have it in the water to get the proper ping rate.

It won't work in the air. It needs water and a bottom to bounce the signal off of.

Think of it like this- the transducer sends out a signal, it hits the bottom and it receives the signal back. When the signal is received, it sends out another one. If there is no water column for the signal to travel through and no bottom to reflect off of, the transducer is waiting to hear a responses back but never gets the response.The reason you are hearing the ping at a slow rate is that the transducer is waiting and waiting for the signal to return and times out eventually, then sends out another signal and waits again and times out, and again and again and again. If it was in water with a bottom, i think the rate would be much faster than what you are hearing on your desk because it gets the response signal back.

Best to test it on the lake.

Maybe Greg can answer this better!!

gixxer01 · « **Reply #24 on:** January 23, 2013, 03:49:49 PM »

I agree that it is probably best to test it on the lake. However, adjusting the Lower Depth range in 6.25 (like Greg suggested) changed the ping rate drastically on all transducers! Much, Much faster! In 6.57 changing the Lower Depth range does nothing to the ping rate. So, apparently there is another change in 6.57.

I will test it out on the water and report back this weekend.

Humminbird_Greg · « **Reply #25 on:** January 24, 2013, 11:21:23 AM »

gixxer, make sure that it is the Max Depth menu that you are adjusting; if it is needed at all.

gixxer01 · « **Reply #26 on:** January 30, 2013, 12:41:25 PM »

Well, now that 6.6 is out....Still no Dual Beam setting. I did try 6.57 on the water with Quad Beam selected, and it did work. Although, I did notice a bit more lag time. I also noticed that I needed Sensitivity cranked up to Max in Max Mode to see my jigging spoon in 12' of water. Regular flasher mode gave much better returns and allowed me to run a lower sensitivity.

This all means Jack now that 6.6 is out. Lots of fixes made that I didn't know I needed. The one I was concerned with....not addressed.

Kenneth_v · « **Reply #27 on:** February 11, 2013, 11:46:12 AM »

Gixxer01

Have you tried 6.6 on the ice yet?

Id like to hear your results if you have.

gixxer01 · « **Reply #28 on:** February 11, 2013, 12:55:14 PM »

I have tried it. A few issues...
1. I have been having a hard time seeing my jigging spoons in anything over 18'. Perhaps my transducer is bad, because this is not only 6.6 related.
2. Still no Dual Beam
3. I am having more interference issues now having to use Quad Beam. Running it next to my Ice 45, I have to set noise rejection to high 3 to eliminate it, but then I can't see my spoon. I've tried running opposite beams on each unit, same beams, not much helps except noise rejection.
4. I find myself constantly having to adjust sensitivity. An hour into fishing I had sensitivity maxed out in max mode and could barely see the spoon in 23'. Perhaps the noise rejection set to high 3 contributed, but without it, the screen was a mess.
5. At one point, the sensitivity levels reversed. As I would increase sensitivity levels, the screen would actually. show less sensitivity. There is a good screen shot in another thread of exactly what I experienced. Restoring defaults fixed this, and actually helped across the board.
6. Traditional 2D view was screaming fast when set at 10. Didn't play with it much, though. Max depth was set to auto.
7. I experienced a few hiccups where the flasher mode seemed to freeze for a second. Minor, but noticeable. Happened a handful of times in 4 hrs of fishing.

Take this with a grain of salt, as I was constantly changing settings trying to see my spoon and eliminate interference. It is entirely possible that I had this unit completely confused, because I know I was. However, within an hour of fishing, I wish I hadn't lent my ice 45 to my buddy and that I was using it. I do believe I will exchange my ducer to see if that helps the sensitivity issue I'm having with my spoons.

LastRide · « **Reply #29 on:** March 01, 2013, 03:21:39 AM »

I am new here. The latest update Humminbird has for my 798CI is 6.3 which I installed. I am guessing you guys are loading beta software updates. I now have compact sidescan, Quad Beam and univeral sonar II. I lost my dual beam selection from the previous software. I just purchased an XI 9 20 ice ducer. After the update and USII selected, ice fishing on with the ice ducer hooked up. I headed out for some ice fishing. I had no bottom reading. My maximum depth was set to auto. The unit/ducer wouldn't detect bottom and would always show 1 1/2 or 2 foot depth. I was left scratching my head what was going on. I had to manually select the depth to get the proper depth reading. Greg, does auto depth with the XI 9 20 screw up the auto depth reading ?. Not that its a big deal selecting it manually which is better. In 20 feet of water I had no problems seeing my tear drop with a wax worm and split shot. Both were showing up. The response time was dead on with what I was doing.

Humminbird_Greg · « **Reply #30 on:** March 01, 2013, 09:15:15 AM »

No the unit should have automatically found the bottom and adjusted the Lower Range for that water depth.

Next time out try using the Quad Beam menu setting. It should not work differently with this setting but at the same time it would be nice to know that for sure. It sounds like there could be a problem with the new XI-9-20 transducer if your unit is working correctly with its normal Side Imaging transducer.

LastRide · « **Reply #31 on:** March 01, 2013, 10:05:15 AM »

Thanks Greg, I am heading out today so I'll give that a try.

LastRide · « **Reply #32 on:** March 02, 2013, 02:06:02 AM »

I was out today and didn't have a problem with auto depth in quad beam or US2. I think I know what might have happened. Before I updated the unit. I factory defaulted like your suppose too. After the update my unit was set around 2 feet maximum depth. I thought it was on auto but pretty sure it was set to 2 feet for some odd reason. Greg, when I switch beams US2 and quad beam. The screen color changes completely. It was all yellow with US2 and quad beam had the proper colors selected form the menu. Default color palette 1 with white back ground. I don't remeber the unit doing that previous time out.

Is the 83 KHZ setting useless for ice fishing ?. Using it in split screen 83/200 or 83 alone. I noticed it wasn't marking anything other than the surface and bottom. Wouldn't mark my jig, thermocline or anything. I raised the sensitivity with no luck.

Humminbird_Greg · « **Reply #33 on:** March 04, 2013, 01:22:07 PM »

Not sure why you are seeing so much difference between the US2 and Quad Beam menu settings. What water depth were you in and which software version was this with?

The 83kHz will not work as well for showing small objects or those that do not reflect little sonar when compared to the higher 200kHz frequency.

LastRide · « **Reply #34 on:** March 04, 2013, 07:03:16 PM »

I was fishing 21.6 feet with the latest software 6.3 for the 798CI SI. I was out today but didn't mess with any of the settings.

LastRide · « **Reply #35 on:** March 16, 2013, 01:06:18 AM »

Greg, just a quick update. I was out fishing a couple days ago. When I turned my unit on. The 798 wasn't reading the ice-ducer. I checked all my options, max depth, sonar on and whatever else. I was left scratching my head as I turned the 798 off and on a few times. I tried the reset defaults and bang I was back in action. The 798 picked up the ducer. Must be some kind of firmware issue. I think I will go back to my previous firmware for ice fishing and back to 6.3 for the boat.

Humminbird_Greg · « **Reply #36 on:** March 19, 2013, 09:21:46 AM »

LastRide,
Try setting the Demonstration menu to the “Off” setting. This menu is under the Setup menu tab.

What is happening is that the unit is powering on and starts trying to detect if a transducer is connected or not. It primarily does this by detecting the built-in temperature sensor. If your transducer does not have one (the ice transducers do not) than the unit will try and ping the transducer and listen for what is called ring-out. If it hears that it will enter into the normal operation mode, if not it states that no transducer is connected and goes into the simulator mode. This method of transducer detection is nowhere near 100%. Setting the Demonstration menu to the off setting will by-pass this and will send the unit straight into the normal operation mode regardless of which transducer (if any) is connected to it.

LastRide · « **Reply #37 on:** April 09, 2013, 11:46:55 PM »

I know its been a while. I didn't mention it, but demonstration was set to off. I remember reading about it. I checked to make sure it was set to off. When I couldn't get it working. I did a reset as a last resort. Never changed any user setting and the unit was left as last time out.I will try the latest firmware again next time out to rule out user errors. Running 5.4 right now without any issues.

gixxer01 · « **Reply #38 on:** April 10, 2013, 12:14:20 AM »

I've run 6.610 in the boat a few times now, and haven't run into any issues. There still isn't the Dual Beam setting, but thats my only gripe.

Kenneth_v · « **Reply #39 on:** December 01, 2013, 12:00:43 AM »

Gixxer

Did you get everything dialed in with the newest firmware?

Seeing your jig in real time and sensitivity working well etc?

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Author Topic: 798ci HD and V. 6.570 problems (Read 22562 times)

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