Topic: Help - 899ci HD SI Stock transducer vs upgrade to "HD" SI transducer

[October1]

Can anybody here explain how much of a difference the upgrade would make?

My dad just bought the 899ci HD SI combo and I had told him the he would have to send in the transducer with about $80 to get the HD transducer, but now after emptying his wallet he is very reluctant to upgrade. He is retired and this was a MAJOR purchase for him.

He asked me why Humminbird would include a transducer that doesn't allow the unit to do what it's capable of and I didn't have a good answer. He is not sure if the upgrade will make a significant difference and unfortunately Humminbird dose not have a video showing the difference.

I read a review on this unit from a guy that had the 898 and he was very upset about the 899 not coming with the HD ducer. He said the 899 didn't have near the detail of his 898. He said it wasn't even close and he wished he never bought it. His review got me a little curious about the performance difference too.

[Airliner9]

I bought the 899 last spring, and I was pretty happy with it using the transducer that came with it.  Granted, my previous unit was a Humminbird Piranha unit that came with the boat, so not much to compare it to really.  I installed the latest software this winter and sent my head unit back for the upgrade that is supposed to solve the washout issue some people had with the 800KHZ transducer. I also purchased the "HD" transducer this winter.    Ice just went out of the lake this morning and I should have the boat in this weekend.   Will let ya' know what I think of the upgrade and if I think it was worth the extra $$$s.

[bobcoy]

Can anybody here explain how much of a difference the upgrade would make?

My dad just bought the 899ci HD SI combo and I had told him the he would have to send in the transducer with about $80 to get the HD transducer, but now after emptying his wallet he is very reluctant to upgrade. He is retired and this was a MAJOR purchase for him.

He asked me why Humminbird would include a transducer that doesn't allow the unit to do what it's capable of and I didn't have a good answer. He is not sure if the upgrade will make a significant difference and unfortunately Humminbird dose not have a video showing the difference.

I read a review on this unit from a guy that had the 898 and he was very upset about the 899 not coming with the HD ducer. He said the 899 didn't have near the detail of his 898. He said it wasn't even close and he wished he never bought it. His review got me a little curious about the performance difference too.

Some do not notice much difference. Most say there is a difference. It depends on your personal situation,(money and preference).

[rnvinc]

I may be able to shed light on both of your Dad's queries ...

The 899ci SI was released at a much lower retail price point than the previous 898 SI simply to allow more opportunity for people to experience SI ...

The biggest cost saving factor in allowing HB to offer this lower price point was supplying the Compact SI xducer instead of the HDSI in the box ...

HB could very easily also have replaced the "Dual Frequency" transmitter with a "Single Frequency" transmitter (like is in the 798 SI) and lowered their cost factor even more ... But instead decided to leave that part alone to allow some interested users of the new 899 series to "upgrade" for the added 800kHz frequency ...
-------

Here's the difference in the 455kHz vs the 800kHz ...

Same settings (other than SI frequency) ...same boat speed...same boat path ... 4 minutes apart ...so exact same water conditions ... 

I'll let you and your Dad decide if you think the difference is worth a mere $80 ...



Rickie

[Airliner9]

Hey rnvince, Thanks for the images.  Pretty big difference for sure.  Makes me want to get my boat in the lake and try out the new transducer and software, but had 3 inches of snow this morning, and the weather is gonna' be pretty nasty up here for a while.   Hard to get too excited when the water is still just at the freezing mark and a damp wind coming out of the north.

[October1]

Thank you very much rnvinc. That is exactly the kind of information I was looking for. I will forward a link to this thread so he can see for himself. I already planned on getting the upgrade when I get my unit. Now I know it will be well worth it and I'm sure he will agree too.

I was guessing HB's reasoning was the price point and even mentioned it to my dad, but it seems like HB would have offered the option up front so people that wanted the upgrade could avoid the shipping cost and time waiting to get it back. Basically, they could have had an SI model and a SID (Dual frequency) model. Not a huge deal, it just makes more sense to me. Either way, I'm looking forward to using the upgraded transducer. I plan on calling HB Monday to find out the cost and what I have to do. Thanks again rnvinc!

Thanks to everyone else too.

Airliner9, I would still be interested in hearing what you think about your upgrade.

[Brady Darren]

October1,

I'm new to these boards and relatively new to HB side imaging so take this for what it's worth, but another thing your dad may need to consider is high speed sonar readings if this is going to be a transom mount configuration.  If his boat is capable of running over 20MPH and the SI transducer is mounted to the transom, he may have difficulty maintaining contact with the bottom at higher speeds.  The side imaging transducers, especially the HDSI, aren't ideally suited to high speed readings.  If your dad doesn't care about getting depth readings at higher speeds, then it's a non-issue.  But what many guys end up having to do is mount an XNT 9 20 T (710198-1) transducer on the transom as well and then pair them both with the AS SI DB Y (720055-1) transducer splitter cable in order to get consistent depth readings at higher speeds.  The AS SI DB Y allows the powerhead to connect to both transducers.  In this configuration you will get dedicated 2D depth readings from the high speed transducer and SI readings from the HDSI. 

The compact SI transducer that the 899 comes bundled with is supposed to be better at getting high speed readings than the HDSI, but I've read plenty of posts from guys having problems with high speed readings with that transducer as well.  But if it were me, I'd definitely upgrade to the HDSI regardless.  If your dad ever gets around to recording sonar data and then views them in an application like HumViewer, he will most certainly notice the imaging quality difference between the compact SI and HDSI.

Just some food for thought. 

Brady

[October1]

Wow, I didn't realize that. You just saved me a lot of frustration from trying to get it to work at higher speeds. Thanks Brady.

So even though the upgraded transducer also has down imaging and the switch fire sonar the unit with know to use the XNT 9 20 T transducer instead?

I know my dad and myself would want to get depth readings at higher speeds. I suppose we could keep using our ancient Eagle fish finders mounted next to the HB for high speed. He is getting Lake Master maps so most of the time he probably wouldn't need to worry about unexpectedly going into shallow water anyway. I will have to check with my wholesaler on the price of the XNT 9 20 T transducer and the AS SI DB Y cable. If it's fairly inexpensive I may order one for myself and keep my Eagle on the portable mount.

[Brady Darren]

October1,

Maybe what you could do is mount the SI transducer and see how it performs at high speed?  That way you can determine if you actually need the high speed transducer and cable or not?  Part of the reason SI doesn't do well at speed is because most guys mount the SI transducer above the bottom of the hull.  This helps prevent rooster tailing and kickup, which the HDSI is especially prone to doing.  Mounting it higher than you would a traditional high speed transducer also protects it from being torpedoed off the transom by debris in the water. A 1" diameter twig at 50mph could be the last thing your beloved (and rather expensive) SI transducer ever sees.   

Good luck!

Brady

[Brady Darren]

October1,

To answer your specific question about the unit knowing which transducer to use, that is my understanding of how the AS-SIDB-Y cable works.  In fact, my cousin is running with that exact configuration with his 999.  The AS-SIDB-Y is specifically designed to be used by Side Imaging units to split the sonar readings from a traditional high speed dual beam transducer like the XNT-9-20 and the HDSI.

The beauty of the AS SIDB Y is you don't need a transducer switch.  You could do that too, but the AS SIDB Y cable seems to be a better option if you're just looking for high speed readings without having to monkey with a switch.  I'd definitely do some research on it before you jump in with both feet though.  It sounded like you were just getting into the game so I wanted to just give you a heads up on the high speed readings so you don't end up frustrated or think you did something wrong mounting your transducer.  High speed readings with SI transducers can be problematic.  Fortunately, there are several options for solving that problem.

More on the AS-SIDB-Y from Humminbird:
 http://www.humminbird.com/Products/AS-SIDB-Y/

[October1]

Thanks again Brady. I will keep what you said in mind.

[Airliner9]

Hey October1,
 Sorry for the delay, but the weather was total garbage here last week, so just got the boat wet today and played around with the new transducer.  Not gonna' say it is like night and day, but it is a big improvement for detail.  No problem with depth readings at speed. (31MPH GPS)  Of course, the sonar screen gets a crazy, but seems to give me the correct depth on plane and follows the contour of my lake.   The new transducer is a lot bigger than the compact one, and I do get a little bit of rooster tail, but I have not make any changes to it's mounting yet. No big deal really, and I think if I wasn't looking for the spray, I never would have noticed it.    I just mounted it the same place my old transducer was and seem to have got lucky.  The new transducer does not have the rubber plug to put in the gap between the bracket and transducer body.  Not sure why, and think that's what is causing my little rooster tail. Next time I pull the boat out and have it on the trailer, I will take a look and maybe wrap some tape around the gap.
 But bottom line, I think the upgrade will make you happy if you are really looking for detail in the structure for bass fishing.

One disappointment I have thus far is that the "Fish ID" still doesn't seem to work on my 899 even after the software upgrade and sending it back to the factory.  I will play with it some more  and re-read the instructions before I say it is a problem with the unit and not me.  No big deal, but I do like to be able to show kids and even some adults the " fish" on the screen.


Later,
 Airliner

[October1]

Thank you the feedback Airliner9. We appreciate it. I will be sending in the transducer sometime next week. I'm going order a Lakemaster chip for it too.