Author Topic: 999SI left side and <5' depth issues and transducer placement  (Read 11260 times)

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Offline jfreborg

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Hello,
   Thanks in advance for any suggestions. Prior to this post I have read several threads here and enjoy and appreciate the content. I recently installed a new 999 and followed the directions including using the mounting template to the letter as best I could. When I initally tested my unit on the water it was holding depth well in all depths as well as on plane (max 34mph) but the transducer was pulling water back up over my transom. In an effort to correct the issue I trailered the boat and lowered the transducer slightly. This resulted in a small (1ft or so) rooster tail from the transducer which I could care less about as it is straight up but now at a depth of 5ft or less my depth readings jump from 2 to 20 ft repeatedly whether I am moving or not. In addition the left side of the water column on the side imaging views shows some steady clutter (not a vertical line but clutter) near the water surface. It is only on the left side.

   My unit was not cooperating with my SD card once I deleted the software update I had downloaded on it so I do not have any screen captures. I am running 7.02. I will try and get some screen captures later in the week. In the meantime I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions or troubleshooting recommendations based off of my transducer placement. This is the first transom transducer I have installed.

I have read here about trying the saltwater depth setting and can will that a shot, but I am hoping it is something more logical like bad transducer placement or positioning on my part. Interference maybe? When I view staight across the transom the closest thing is the livewell intake, which I added a screen of my own and removed the previous one which was slightly larger. As is, the intake sits about flush with the transducer mounting board I added to the transom. I don't think this should interfere but I do not know. I have been running a max depth in freshwater mode of 120ft and 120ft SI range. I was toying with the SI sensitivity but the clutter would not disappear. The depth worked just fine once I was deeper than roughly 5 feet. Anything jump out at anyone as looking way off with the placement or position of the transducer? Thanks for your time! Jeremy


Offline Humminbird_Greg

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Re: 999SI left side and <5' depth issues and transducer placement
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2014, 04:23:03 PM »
Welcome to the Humminbird Side Imaging Forums Jeremy.

The less than 5 feet water depth reading issue is not transducer placement.  Before trying the Saltwater (deep) mode, try adjusting the Surface Clutter menu to a lower numerical setting (filters out more surface clutter) first.

As for the clutter in the left Si sonar: does it only happen when the boat is moving?
Does it appear when the motor is trimmed up and out of the way like in your posted pictures?

You got me curious about that livewell intake screen.  Any chance you could post some pictures of it so others can see what you did?  I don’t think this is what was causing the left Si sonar clutter.
Greg Walters at Humminbird
gwalters@johnsonoutdoors.com

Offline jfreborg

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Re: 999SI left side and <5' depth issues and transducer placement
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2014, 04:57:14 PM »
For the depth issue I will double check the surface clutter setting I believe it is already on 1 but will verify that, I know I have the 2d set in clear mode.

The left side SI issue is always present, sitting still or moving and with the motor out of the way, as shown or higher.

You can see the livewell intake in the top picture which was taken from the left side of the boat. It is the closest/first object you can see on the transom and is a small protrusion with a metal screen over it. I thought maybe it could have something to do with the metal but the positioning of it seems like it should be in the clear.

Thanks!

Offline biggs aquaholic

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Re: 999SI left side and <5' depth issues and transducer placement
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2014, 11:52:25 PM »
I have the same eratic depth problem with my 998c hdsi unit, I have two 998c hdsi units and one of them at both stations does the eratic depth readings only when on clear mode. When on max mode it goes away completely. The other unit works fine at both stations so I know my transducer and set ups are not the problems. I think that some of us just got units that are not tested out correctly, but I am no tech genius. On mine I have tried salt shallow, no surface clutter, salt deep,  the only thing that worked is the max mode and then back off on the sensitivity where the screen was not cluttered so much. My unit is still under warranty like your 999 unit should be, so I am going to fish this summer and then send it for repairs again this winter. See if the max mode makes your unit pick up all the time on the correct depth.
Biggs Aquaholic

Offline Humminbird_Greg

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Re: 999SI left side and <5' depth issues and transducer placement
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2014, 11:00:29 AM »
Jeremy,
Since the left Si sonar clutter is present when moving or sitting still that means that it is either something on the boat causing a sonar reflection back to the transducer, something wrong with the left Si sonar in the transducer or something in the unit itself.  It may be that the HDSi transducer is picking up on the motor mount as that intake is too flush to the transom to cause this.  You may need to temporarily mount the HDSi transducer on a pole and hold it down in the water well under the boat to see if the clutter in the left Si sonar goes away or not.  That would help tell us where the problem is as would testing your unit on someone else’s boat that has a Humminbird Si unit – any model will work for the test.

Try the Surface Clutter menu change.  You may have to combine it with the Saltwater (deep) change too.
Greg Walters at Humminbird
gwalters@johnsonoutdoors.com

Offline jfreborg

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Re: 999SI left side and <5' depth issues and transducer placement
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2014, 03:00:56 PM »
Greg and Biggs,
   Thanks very much for the suggestions. I will try everything you have both mentioned prior to removing the transducer and mounting it on a pole. I have a pole I can use but my time on the water is so limited I hate to use it up not fishing and messing around. I am getting out Friday so I will retest everything as is with different settings and see how it goes.

Greg,
   My transducer is definitely mounted lower than the motor mount. That said is there a minimum distance it should be below the mount? I would say the bottom of the mount is roughly in the center of the transducer mounting bracket, so just above the transducer itself. Perhaps it is not low enough?

   Bottom line the thing is still really cool and works well enough as is that I will use it through the season and send it in in the winter if need be. 2 year warranty with the select program so that's nice. Thanks again guys!

Offline rnvinc

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Re: 999SI left side and <5' depth issues and transducer placement
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2014, 10:42:30 PM »
The outer/upper reaches of the SI beam radiate all the way to the water's surface...

If there is any object close enough, hard enough, or perpendicular enough to the pulse...it can cause reflections back to the xducer...

So the "minimum" height above the xducer for beam clearance is "the waters's surface"...

Rickie


Offline jfreborg

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Re: 999SI left side and <5' depth issues and transducer placement
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2014, 08:45:23 AM »
Hi Rickie,
   I understand that you are saying the beam actually radiates above the transducer.
 
   Care to ellaborate on what that means with respect to placement of the transducer on the transom? Are you saying there is nowhere I can place my transducer without it picking up the motor mount?

   I have to mount my transducer somewhere below the transom to the left or the right of the motor. This results in my motor mount being in the water column between my transducer and the water's surface at all times.

   I guess I can entertain mounting it on my bow mount trolling motor if that's the case but I would prefer it be on the transom for higher speed trolling and simply scanning water. Thanks.

Offline Humminbird_Greg

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Re: 999SI left side and <5' depth issues and transducer placement
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2014, 02:04:53 PM »
That’s not what it means Jeremy.  The Si sonar beams radiate outwards and upwards at an angle.  It’s about at a thirteen degree angle using laboratory measurements.  In the real world it is probably more than that.  There are other factors that can influence whether you will get a sonar return from something above and to the side of the transducer.  The ‘pole test’ will show us whether this is caused by the motor mount.  If it is, a strange sounding but possible solution would be to mount the transducer closer to the motor mount.
Greg Walters at Humminbird
gwalters@johnsonoutdoors.com

Offline jfreborg

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Re: 999SI left side and <5' depth issues and transducer placement
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2014, 10:29:25 PM »
Got it. I can picture why you say moving it closer to the motor may help if that is the issue. Steeper angle makes perfect sense. Hooked the unit up on the boat tonight in the driveway and my surface clutter was set at 1 already. I look forward to testing out everyone's tips, thanks again everyone.

Offline jfreborg

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Re: 999SI left side and <5' depth issues and transducer placement
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2014, 04:55:37 PM »
Tried everyone's settings suggestions with regard to depth readings on Friday with no luck. It is still extremely erratic in 5fow or less but holds perfectly, even on plane, when a bit deeper. Surface clutter on 1, then max mode on, then salt water shallow, then salt water deep, nothing stuck. Very strange. SI works pretty well and showed me a lot of great stuff, but I am still getting the left side funk in the water column only so I am going to remove the transducer this week and try it closer to the motor to get more vertical distance between the motor mount and the transducer. If that does not work I will try the pole mount. I am hoping if I can get rid of the left side SI interference maybe the depth reading issue will magically disappear with it! Thanks for the ideas!

Offline Humminbird_Greg

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Re: 999SI left side and <5' depth issues and transducer placement
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2014, 09:12:10 AM »
Jeremy,
I would see if you can find someone else with a Humminbird unit that is not a DI model and try swapping units so you can test your 999ci HD Si unit on their transducer and their unit on your transducer.  Most any non-DI model will work for this as they all use the same 200/83kHz 2D sonar.  Just hand plug in the power and transducer for the test but make sure you do this in an area that the 999 shows the erratic depths in.  If this other unit is an Si model I would check for the clutter in the left Si sonar.

I would do the pole test before I would try relocating the transducer.  The transducer itself could be the cause of both of the problems that you are seeing.
Greg Walters at Humminbird
gwalters@johnsonoutdoors.com

Offline jfreborg

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Re: 999SI left side and <5' depth issues and transducer placement
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2014, 02:05:01 PM »
I have an extra hi speed quad beam transducer I will bring out next time and use it to test the depth issue and see. Also, just an FYI. I called H-bird support to let them know what was up and get myself educated to the process of how it works if I do have to send anything in etc. They walked me through some troubleshooting as well and long story short the gal told me the exact opposite with respect to the surface clutter setting.

She said she was trained that if there are depth issues in shallow water the surface clutter setting needs to be turned up from 1 to say 5 and try to find what works to hold the depth. She also told me that the transducers are only guaranteed to read in 3fow or deeper for whatever reason. Anyway, not a complaint as clearly it is not an exact science, just a heads up that is what I heard straight from H-bird support. Thanks again

Offline rnvinc

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Re: 999SI left side and <5' depth issues and transducer placement
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2014, 05:25:48 PM »
Just for "grins and giggles"...

You might try setting the "Transducer Select" menu to "Dual Beam"...(this shuts off the SI transmitters and utilizes your unit as a basic 2d unit)...

Restore defaults to get all the settings back to midrange...

Test the shallow water depth readings for the same erratic behavior...

Rickie
« Last Edit: June 20, 2014, 05:27:18 PM by rnvinc »

Offline jfreborg

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Re: 999SI left side and <5' depth issues and transducer placement
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2014, 04:15:01 PM »
Had the boat out on Monday and got the depth to hold in less than 5fow with the surface clutter on 5 (which I think is also the default setting, so good call Rickie). I was pumped. The strange bubbles or interference or whatever on the left side of the SI were still present but they were not nearly as bad. I was unsure if it was because I was on a different body of water or if it was because the surface clutter was turned up? Regardless, I was much happier with the performance of the unit. When I have a full day on the water and I can tinker around with the placement of the transducer I will try moving it closer to the motor and see what happens. Thanks again to everyone!

Offline rnvinc

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Re: 999SI left side and <5' depth issues and transducer placement
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2014, 12:53:32 PM »
Just a reminder....

The Surface Clutter setting seems backward to what one would think...

The setting is "how much clutter is shown on the screen"...

So a setting of 1 shows very little clutter on the display...
And a setting of 10 shows a lot of clutter on the display...

Rickie


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