Topic: Trying to decide?

[Poolman]

Hi All:

I am getting ready to upgrade the electronics in my Triton-186 bass boat (both console & bow units) & I would really appreciate some advice from those "in the know"! All of my "club buddies" have Lowrance units & are encouraging me to go in that direction, but price & feature wise, it sure seems to me that the Hummingbird units are the better "value". Would you agree?

I am considering a 798HD SI Combo for the console & a 858c DI Combo for the bow; is this a wise choice of units in these locations? My thinking is; have the SI unit for "finding the spots" then the larger DI unit for the actual "fishing". If I had the extra cash I would go for the larger SI unit in both locations, but that's not the case. I guess my real questions are;

1. Is my thinking correct (unit placement wise)?
2. Should I wait until I've got the extra cash & go SI in both locations, or will I be happy with this combo of units?
3. How would you rate the Hummingbird units compared to the Lowrance units?
4. Are the lake maps that come with the Hummingbird sufficient, or should I plan on upgrading them? I've been told they are not all that good. The lakes I mostly fish on should be on any of the maps I would think (Diamond Valley, Perris, Skinner, Hodges, Otay, San Vicente, & etc.)
5. Can anyone recommend a good place to have these units installed, in or around, the Temecula, Riverside area's? I plan on buying them from an online retailer (better pricing it seems). Any recommendations as to which one has the best price?

I really look forward to hearing what you have to say.

Thanks in advance,
Jim 
aka... Poolman

[ITGEEK]

Well Jim,
Here's my 2 cents:

No normal (non-rich), fisherman is going to have equal experience with both current
models of Humminbird and Lowrance.  Most people stick with (and only can afford) one brand
at a time.  I think there's a slim chance that you are going to get feedback from people that run both units.

I think with Lowrance, if you want side-imaging,  you have to buy an additional
module.  So, I think Humminbird units will be a bit cheaper for the same features as compared to
Lowrance.

I think both brands are very high quality, and represent the state of the art in sonar for recreational fishermen.  I don't think you could go wrong in selecting either one of them.

I have personal experience with Humminbird customer service, and it is A++ (absolutely first rate).  I have no experience at all with Lowrance customer service, so I can't tell you anything there.  I did own a Lowrance model previously and I was very happy with it.

I'm not much of a Bass fisherman.  I troll, verticle jig, and baitfish.
I don't even have a bow mount motor on my boat.

So, strictly looking at this from my perspective, I'd get a bad-ass
1198c for the console and forget about the bow, but that's just me.

With any unit (any brand), get the biggest screen you can afford.
If you are no spring chicken, and have aging eyesight, you will really appreciate
a bigger screen, especially if you split the views.

Also, I would not buy two units at the same time.  Get one and tweak it and get some
experience with it, then get another unit.  And, when you get that second unit,
you are most likely going to be dealing with some interference issues.  It takes time to get
the very best from these units.  Sometimes, you have to move your transducer
multiple times for optimum performance.

I think the base maps in any unit aren't going to be very good.
I would research NAVIONICS, and LAKEMASTER and see if they have
detailed maps of your fishing waters.

You might want to consider this:
If all your buddies already have Lowrance, then they have a lot of valuable experience that's
right at your fingertips.  They have been through everything before and will be a very
valuable asset to you.  If you do go with Lowrance, I'd get the GEN2 model(s).
I hear the map updates on those are instantaneous.  They have nice, fast processors.

I would not rush into a decision.  Take your time and have some fun.
I wish you the best of luck.

[Poolman]

Great advice & all worth considering! I do realize it could be a "A Chevy vs a Ford" thing if you get my point &you you're probably correct assuming most of my club members haven't had both. So a real fair comparison wouldn't be possible.

I really hadn't considered doing one at a time but you make a great point. Although from a install cost point I do believe it would be more costly that way. I'll have to check.

If I did do one at a time, I will have to decide which location to do first. Having to possibly change transducer location several times really concerns me. What a pain that would be! Is that common??

Thanks again for your input; all great points!

[ITGEEK]

Jim,
For first time installs, it is very common to move the transducer around a bit to get the
very best location (this is for transom mounted transducers).  You should get a transducer bracket, which is a polyurethane pad,
which requires only drilling two holes to attach it to the transom.  Then, you can move the transducer around without putting additional holes in your boat.  Probably THE MOST critical thing in installing side imaging sonars is the transducer placement.  There is also some expoxy available where you can just glue it to your boat, but I don't know how trustworthy it is.

Another thing you need to consider, and I don't know if you fall into this category.
The Bass guys like to go fast, but going fast and getting good depth readings don't always
go hand in hand.
Sometimes, the boat motors are so powerful, that the transom is actually lifted up out of
the water, where the transducer is left dry.
It's not possible to get good 2-d depth readings unless the transducer is submerged.

Some guys have had to either get thru the hull transducers, or shoot-thru the
hull transducers to get high speed depth readings.  This involves a y-cable that
will take the 2d reading from one transducer and the SI, and DI readings from another.
Also, depending on your main motor and if you have a jack plate or not, some guys have
had to have a side-imaging transducer on each side of the transom in order to get
good side images for left and right.

I hadn't considered you having the units installed by somebody.  In this case, it would be more
expensive to install one, then another one later.  It's just that if you install both at the same
time, you may be overwhelmed with having to adjust the transducer(s) and dealing with
interference issues.  Very rarely does somebody just bolt these things to their boat and get
perfect performance.  There is a learning curve associated with side-imaging.

The good news, is that your Bass club buddies have had to make the same type
of decisions that you are going through now.  Look at other boats like yours and see
what they have done, as far as transducer locations.

[Poolman]

Thank you again; great points you make.

Question's;

Is it just the SI that makes the transducer location so critical, or does the DI have the same issues? Of course I don't have either right now & I have a "thru the hull" transducer & I do like that.

Is the SI really worth the cost & the hassle?

None of my "buddies" in the club have that SI feature & they all seem to get along just fine. Many of them fish B.A.S.S, W.O.N., & American Bass tournaments on a regular basis. Am I "wanting" something that I really don't "need"? I don't fish any tournaments other than our club tournaments.

My two older Lowrance units that I have right now doesn't have a GPS, isn't color (so obviously not HD) & those are the main features (along with DI) that I really want. The SI was just a bonus that I figured "why not"??

I'm all for saving money where I can, but I don't want to buy these new ones & wish later that I had gone for the SI feature. My "buddies" say it's not really worth it.

Your thoughts.

[Bob B]

I don't know anyone who has SI that would go back to not having it.  There is a significant learning curve to use SI to it's full potential, but most people find structure the first time out that they had no idea was there.  SI has much greater coverage area than DI when trying to locate structure.

When it comes to DI, it depends a lot on how you fish, depth of water, etc how valuable it will be.  With Humminbird, you get DI derived from the SI beams that will be sufficient for most situations.....if DI clarity is extremely important to the way you fish, a DI unit with a dedicated di element will give you better DI clarity.....with Humminbird DI units, you get DI as well as 2D....no 2D on the Lowrance DI units. 
Transducer mounting with DI units is not as discussed as SI because with Humminbird SI, the beam angle is virtually 180 degrees....obstuction to the side would not be as significant with DI only becasue the beam width is a lot less.

As far as Humminbird vs Lowrance, you get a dedicated DI element in the Lowrance transducer in their LSS add on, but at the expense of SI range.  Humminbird SI range is much better than the LSS-1 and LSS-2.  Humminbird GPS also has greater accuracy than Lowrance.  There are some after market GPS that work with Lowrance that improve accuracy, but you are now spending more money.

Humminbird is owned and manufactured in USA......a major factor in my opinion.

[ITGEEK]

Jim,
If you haven't been exposed to SI, it opens up a whole new world of enlightenment.
If you were on someone elses boat that had it, and you got a good look at it, trust me
you would want it.

It does a couple of things:  You learn a lot about the structure in the waters you fish.
It also helps you keep abreast of technology, and by downloading updates, and making
and reviewing recordings, you will become computer savy if you are not already.

You can cruise around your favorite lake while recording to your SD card.
Then, while at home, relaxing and having a hot cup of coffee, review the
recording on your PC and take note of the GPS coordinates of structure you see.
Then, add those Waypoints to your unit.

Now, I don't fish tournaments, and I think using SI in a limited time tournament
may be difficult to make out items, and actualy take advantage of the SI
while you are under the gun with time.

I like it more for recording, then going home and reviewing the recordings
at my leisure.  I always find some new feature on a lake that I didn't know
existed before.

Search Google for SIDE-IMAGING - YOUTUBE, and look at some of the videos.
The technology is truly amazing.

If you do decide to get an SI unit, all your buddies will be jealous.

[Poolman]

Wow; I didn't know you could that. That is awesome! You sold me.

Would you agree that if you only had that SI feature on one unit; it should be on the console unit?

[newkid4si]

Poolman
   
    "Would you agree that if you only had that SI feature on one unit; it should be on the console unit?"

     I would recommend the console. For the SI to be used to it's best capabilities, your boat needs to travel in a straight line
     at a constant speed ( 2 to 5-6 mph ). You will find this much easier to do from the console than the TM.
     It's also a lot more comfortable.

              Mike

[ITGEEK]

Absolutely, most definintely the console.
It is the most comfortable position on the boat for the Captain.

Having the screen in front of you is much more comfortable than to keep
looking down at a bow unit on the deck.  I don't see how the Bass guys do it
without getting a stiff neck.  And, you can see the images better if it
is closer to your face.

Jim,
Here's an idea.
If you do go with two units, have them installed at the same time, and test both of
them thoroughly to make sure they both work.

Then, get the console unit dialed in good, with a few trips to the water, and adjusting
the SI transducer if needed.

Then, when you are very comfortable with the console unit, start using the bow unit.  That way, you will be able to tell immediately if you have any interference issues.

[generalpatton71]

Here is my 2 cents. I'm new here I usually post on a different forum so hello to all here. I would STRONGLY recommend at least a 898 unit that does SI at the console. You will really want to screen size to see what your looking at. I've been in a hundred different boats with Si it feels like. I can't tell you how many are scanning 180f to the left and 180ft to the right. Think about that for a second. You have something like 8 inch screen showing 360ft of information! Now just how big is that stump thats 4 ft by 3 ft going to look? It would be TINY and most people will never see it. So on a unit like the 898 it better to dial that back a ton. I usually run 60ft to both sides and things are still small. On a 798 that stuff would be tiny. So IMHO a 898 is worth the extra cost.

Now I realize your on a budget and here is how I suggest you get back on target. Skip the DI feature on the front. IMHO it's practically useless on it's own. I only use it in conjunction with SI and 2d sonar to help determine what something is. It's my third tool to figure something out. IMHO a quality 2d sonar is whats needed upfront. They are great for vertical jigging and they can still help find that structure you marked with the SI unit. Check out the HDS 5X here at a great price http://www.basspro.com/Lowrance-HDS5x-Fishfinder/product/103485/110237

[Poolman]

What you say makes a lot of sense, but I am confused with your recommendation of the front unit, as it's a Lowrance product. Will a Hummingbird communicate with a Lowrance; I didn't think it would. Am I wrong?

Do you happen to prefer the Lowrance to the Hummingbird, & if so, why?

Thanks... Jim

[ITGEEK]

Jim:
A Humminbird WILL NOT directly communicate with a Lowrance.

You can however, convert the Nav data (Waypoints, Tracks, Routes), through
software from one unit to another.

[Poolman]

Why would I want to do that? Why not stay with Hummingbird?

[ITGEEK]

Jim,
It looks like you've decided to get a Humminbird for your console.
If that's the case, then I think you need to stick with that brand for your
bow also.
That way, you could Ethernet them together to share Waypoints.

Or,
Pick Lowrance for both, but I think mixing them is recipe for heart break.

[Poolman]

I agree. Thanks again.

[generalpatton71]

I listed the hds unit because at it's current price it's the best bang for the Buck. You said u have budget and hummingbird units that are equivalent run alot more. I personally don't think sharing waypoints is that big of a deal if it means you loose out to smaller units to get it. The 898 would offer the size and features u need at the console. A 798IMHO would be a mistake at the console. So then if u get the 898 it's going to eat into ur budget more by the cost of say 300 or so dollars. I suggested a way to get u back on budget with the closeouts of those units. I think that one was like 380$. Go look and see what that price point gets u on a bird. I'm pretty sure it gets u a fairly small unit with a lower resolution screen. Now if it's in ur budget by all means get the bird unit in the 700 series as well. Again I'm just saying prioritize screen size at the console for side image. At the front sacrifice down image for a better bigger 2d sonar unit. I personally. Don't care much about sharing way points either my console unit isgets me right by it to then I use trolling motor unit to get on top with sonar. GPS is only accurate to an extent ur always going to have to use ur sonar to find that brushpile. Sorry for any typos my phones auto correct feature is going overboard right now.

[Poolman]

I appreciate the advice, but I think I would feel more comfortable having both units at least from the same company. I may just have to wait a little longer & save a little more but I would rather do that than be sorry for what I did later. What I may end up doing is just putting the 898 on the console & use the unit I've got on the front now until I can afford to spring for the new one up front. That would also give me a chance to get use to using the SI & DI features as well. Not sure which way Ill go now!  

[generalpatton71]

Sounds like a great idea..since your holding off on the front unit look at getting a ram mount. Some offer the ability for u to swing it around. So could use it while on the deck even.

[Poolman]

Absolutely; already figured that one out!

Do you know if Hummingbird makes a DI/SI "thru the hull" transducer?

[sonar2000]

Dont think there is a thru the hull SI.
Unless you carve out a hole and stick an si in the hole.  dont advise this..
Chuck

[Poolman]

Nope, wouldn't want to do that. I have a "thru the hull" 2D transducer now; was just thinking maybe it could go there?? I'll check with Hummingbird to see what they offer. Thanks... Jim

[sonar2000]

Poolman. It will depend on your interpretation of thru the hull.  A true thru the hull means making a hole. In a shoot thru the hull the transducer is epoxied to the existing hull and no hole.
A shoot thru the hull does not have SI.

Chuck

[Humminbird_Greg]

No, we do not make a shoot through-the-hull Si/Di transducer.  They just don’t work well when mounted inside the hull as we have tested this.

[Poolman]

Thanks, now I know.

[lcookie]

Hi All:

I am getting ready to upgrade the electronics in my Triton-186 bass boat (both console & bow units) & I would really appreciate some advice from those "in the know"! All of my "club buddies" have Lowrance units & are encouraging me to go in that direction, but price & feature wise, it sure seems to me that the Hummingbird units are the better "value". Would you agree?

I am considering a 798HD SI Combo for the console & a 858c DI Combo for the bow; is this a wise choice of units in these locations? My thinking is; have the SI unit for "finding the spots" then the larger DI unit for the actual "fishing". If I had the extra cash I would go for the larger SI unit in both locations, but that's not the case. I guess my real questions are;

1. Is my thinking correct (unit placement wise)?
2. Should I wait until I've got the extra cash & go SI in both locations, or will I be happy with this combo of units?
3. How would you rate the Hummingbird units compared to the Lowrance units?
4. Are the lake maps that come with the Hummingbird sufficient, or should I plan on upgrading them? I've been told they are not all that good. The lakes I mostly fish on should be on any of the maps I would think (Diamond Valley, Perris, Skinner, Hodges, Otay, San Vicente, & etc.)
5. Can anyone recommend a good place to have these units installed, in or around, the Temecula, Riverside area's? I plan on buying them from an online retailer (better pricing it seems). Any recommendations as to which one has the best price?

I really look forward to hearing what you have to say.

Thanks in advance,
Jim 
aka... Poolman

1. Yes.  Put the SI at the console so you can search from stuff while you run around and then target fish it with the Di unit up front.  I would personally get a 898 SI and 788 DI.  When looking at SI images size matters.  You will be able to see objects much better with the larger screen.  When it comes to DI he width of the screen is not as important as everything to the left is old news (history)  Not having as much history shown is not a big deal to me.  Wen you look at the screen heights between a 788 and a 858 there is not much difference. 

2. SI in both locations is nice but not a necessity.  A good DI unit or 2d only unit usually serves most people fine. I personally find the DI from SI image conversion lacking in detail.  The dedicated DI units are light years better.   

3.  I like Chevy.  Both have advantages and disadvantages.  Which ever you choose be happy with it and don't get sucked into buyers remorse. 

4.  Functional but not great.  You will probably want to upgrade to a map chip in the end.

5.  Not hard to do it yourself.  Just take our time and map things our step by step before you get started.