Topic: Mapping and legislation

[Rickard]

There is a lot of discussions on mapping, making mosaics, depth charts etc, but nobody has mentioned the legislation which can turn us into outlaws... In my country, Sweden (the country of DrDepth...), all depth-mapping is prohibited at sea and in all coastal waters for national security reasons. You may not collect depth data with position data and store the results. Permission to do that can be given by the military authorities, but they use very strict criteria for permission. Depth mapping is not restricted in lakes and rivers.

Most people with sonars with the capacity to do this are probably unaware of these rules, and most of them won't be prosecuted because of lack of surveillance and because the data are only used for private purposes, in most cases. However, if such data are posted or made available to the (international) public someone might react...

I have made an inquiry to the Swedish Armed Forces about permission to scan for wrecks in a prohibited area and got a positive, preliminary response. They really took me seriously and a head (rank: lieutenant-colonel) of a support division of the military intelligence visited me in my home. I think he wanted to know what we, the amateur sidescan guys, can accomplish these days. Hopefully, this won't cause new legislation that limits our activities...

These rules probably differ between countries, but I'm sure there are some sort of restrictions everywhere, could be worth checking.

Rickard

[Jolly Roger]

Holy smoke!

And I have thought that Sweden is a quite liberal country........

On the other hand: I guess this law goes back to the age when the Russkies were still bad and their subs were lurking around in the coastal waters of the Baltic sea of your country.

I'm not aware that we have such a regulation here in Germany and I doubt that we have one (I hope I'm not mistaken here). Last year I had a discussion with some of our local archaeologists. They were not happy (actually not even aware) about the existence of Side Scan Sonars for relatively low prices. They are afraid that archaeological interesting wrecks might be discovered and looted or destroyed by divers. Makes sense from their point, but luckily not enough to prohibit the use of Side Scan Sonars.

Thanks for the heads up Rickard!

Regards / Harry

[sonar2000]

I understand homeland security and the issues but to take it to the level of legislation for a sport would be like giving the TSA the authority over the program of sonar.
I dont understand what the sonar would do that would help a terrorist with all the other tools, maps, intelligence available.
Next our road maps will be taken away and you wont be able to give directions to your friends to come over to visit.
Sorry for the rant but I must really be missing the legislation point.
Chuck (sonar2000)

[Rickard]

I agree the legislation seems outdated, but the national security issues were very real until recently. Sweden didn't fear terrorism, we prepared for the massive invasion over the sea. The enemy certainly would benefit from detailed depth info when trying that, that's the reason for the restrictions. During the 80:s there was a weird period with repeated incidents when unidentified alien submarines penetrated into coastal waters triggering warlike drama with exploding mines and use of live depth charges. A soviet submarine once ran ashore with nuclear torpedoes aboard! Fortunately, no lives were lost, as far as have been reported. These incidents were interpreted as reconnaissance operations and preparations for an invasion. The activities ceased when Soviet union fell apart. 20 years ago every Swedish male who could pull a trigger had a function in the military, now, all of that is gone.

The eternal peace is here....

Rickard

[Jolly Roger]

"The eternal peace is here...."

and hopefully stays!

Harry

[Rickard]

Yes,

Let's hope the peace will be forever... While waiting for softer sonar mapping legislation we can enjoy very liberal rules for marine archaeological investigations in this area. There are no restrictions whatsoever on sidescan investigations with the objective to find historical wrecks. On the contrary, the archaeological authorities are encouraging activities like sidescanning and diving. This way they believe there will be more finds found and reported and less looting. To be honest, there is a debate ongoing on this. Not everyone believes this strategy will have a positive net outcome. To me, and other amateurs, it's a very welcome strategy and I can have continuous contact with the marine archeology professionals thanks to this.

Rickard