Author Topic: Interference/Ghost signal on new 899  (Read 48021 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline jerklip

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Joined: Jan 2014
  • Location: Columbus, MS
  • Posts: 33
  • Unit(s): 899 with XHS 9 180T xducer
Interference/Ghost signal on new 899
« on: February 17, 2014, 11:49:53 AM »
[ Specified attachment is not available ]Hello, I'm hoping someone can help me diagnose and fix a problem with an interference signal i'm getting on my 899.
It's signal that shows up on down scan, 2d sonar, and on the left side only of SI.  It also shows up in all of the simulator views.
It is a line about a couple of feet down.  It really never stops although I think it may decrease when I completely stop and drift a while.  I need to do more testing  there to be sure.
I have attached some pictures for  reference, real and simulator.
Can anyone offer any suggestions??
Other than that, this thing is drawing some AMAZING pictures.  Very happy with that.  Upgraded to the XHS 9 HDSI 180T transducer.
Thanks for  any help.ila_renderedila_renderedila_renderedila_renderedila_renderedila_rendered[attachimg=7
« Last Edit: February 20, 2014, 04:46:15 PM by jerklip »


Offline al. river

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Joined: Apr 2011
  • Posts: 4
Re: Interference/Ghost signal on new 899
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2014, 01:21:00 PM »
My 899 unit doing the same thing. I thought it was my motor. Im going to raise up my motor to check for sure. its doing it in simulator too.



Offline rnvinc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Joined: Nov 2009
  • Location: Western KY
  • Posts: 4329
  • Unit(s): 1197c SI Combo, SOLIX G2 MSI
  • Software: Dependent on whim
  • Accessories: AS GRHA, MEGA 360, LowBird LSS 1 & 2
Re: Interference/Ghost signal on new 899
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2014, 08:08:48 PM »
You might try testing without the livewell screen on...

I've seen many cases where the screen sticks out just far enough to reflect some of the left sound pulse...these instances have been remedied by installing a spacer block between the transom and the xducer bracket...

The SI beams reach all the way to the water's surface ...to overlapping at the bottom...
___________________________________

The line at the top of the 2d image is most likely just surface clutter...it's not the same obstruction reflection that is showing in the DI and the left SI...

Rickie

« Last Edit: February 17, 2014, 08:12:47 PM by rnvinc »

Offline Rickard

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Joined: May 2009
  • Location: Mariefred, Sweden
  • Posts: 512
  • Unit(s): 999, 981, M37, LowBird-1, LowBird-2
Re: Interference/Ghost signal on new 899
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2014, 08:20:32 AM »
Like Rickie says the SI beam may hit the surface, but it may also hit details on the stern even if they don't seem to obscure the beam. This is possible because the SI beam is not a single thin slice with sound as is shown in most sketches, it actually consists of a large number of thin slices which fill the angular space between the main beam and the plane of the piezo element. These sidelobes have much lower intensity than the main lobe has so they don't use to affect the image. This bundle with lobes act like one wide lobe that sometimes produces wide arcs around very reflective objects. If the stern has something very reflective on it, this can cause a line in the image similar to what jerklip has.
 
The image below show a simulation of the SI beams in a transducer with 113 mm long piezo element at 455 kHz. This is a way to show what the beams would look like if they were visible from above. The beams are calculated down to -50 dB which is rather low so the image actually exaggerates the influence from sidelobes.
 
Rickard
 
« Last Edit: February 18, 2014, 10:08:03 AM by Rickard »

Offline jerklip

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Joined: Jan 2014
  • Location: Columbus, MS
  • Posts: 33
  • Unit(s): 899 with XHS 9 180T xducer
Re: Interference/Ghost signal on new 899
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2014, 09:49:50 AM »
Wow!  Thank you to Rickey and Ricard.  I have read this board for hours upon hours, and I am continually amazed at the generosity and interest to help by so many...and here it is again.  Thank you both again.  Rickey, I think you must have been spot on about the line in the 2D view being different from the returns in the DI and SI views.  About two clicks on the surface clutter adjustment, and it was gone, at least sitting on the trailer.  I'm going to see what happens when I remove the livewell screen.  I read on another thread about adjusting the beam width also which I may try.

Rickard, that's a great explanation and illustration, and I actually get it.

Thank you both for the great technical information and advice.

I'll report back.

Al.river, would you please let us know what you discover also when you get a chance?

Thank you,
Curtis

Offline al. river

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Joined: Apr 2011
  • Posts: 4
Re: Interference/Ghost signal on new 899
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2014, 01:28:31 PM »
WOW. Im sure my line is from my motor. I have my transducer mounted to a stern saver mount. the mount is 5/8 " so it sit me back some. it looked like  was going to clear. Ill let yall know . thanks guys

Offline jerklip

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Joined: Jan 2014
  • Location: Columbus, MS
  • Posts: 33
  • Unit(s): 899 with XHS 9 180T xducer
Re: Interference/Ghost signal on new 899
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2014, 10:06:30 AM »
Here is my latest input: 
Removing livewell screen - no improvement.
Sitting dead still calm-almost gone, but not completely.  Still there faintly (without the screen).  But waaaaaay better.  Tolerable.
Motor up, motor down, motor at idle, or revved, up or down, in gear or out of gear, not difference. (one exception to follow)
Narrowing the beam width on DI does give noticeable improvement on the DI view.  But I don't want to be limited to narrow only.
Here is the exception mentioned above.  Speed up.  From 800-900 rpm to  1900-2000 rpm, it almost completely goes away.... in both I and SI.  Almost completely gone.  It's like I'm outrunning the cause of the interference.
It is definitely worse when in gear at idle speed.
Thanks y'all.

Offline Humminbird_Greg

  • Humminbird Helper
  • Humminbird Staff
  • *
  • Joined: Mar 2009
  • Location: Eufaula, AL.
  • Posts: 6546
  • I help because I can
    • Humminbird Web Site
Re: Interference/Ghost signal on new 899
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2014, 12:48:44 PM »
See if you can try reversing your drain plug on the boat so that it is inserted from the inside.  That could be what you are seeing now.

You could try adding a spacer block between the transducer and the transom.
Greg Walters at Humminbird
gwalters@johnsonoutdoors.com

Offline slabbacks

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Joined: Sep 2013
  • Location: Mid TN
  • Posts: 212
  • Is it Friday yet!
  • Unit(s): 898c HD SI / 859ci HD
  • Software: 6.490
Re: Interference/Ghost signal on new 899
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2014, 07:47:41 AM »
Jerklip, something I noticed is your drain plug.  The handle or tip (used to tighten the plug)  has a wide / flat profile.  The flat portion is also facing your xducer. 

Try to lower the profile by turning it till it is horizontal with the boat.  Also try a lower profile drain plug such as a T handle or fold down model.  See if this reduces what you are seeing as far as interference.   Make a recording running in SI with the old plug AS IS (flat and facing the xducer) then do the same with it turned flat and one or both of the other model plugs.  By pulling a screen shot of all three off HBPC you will really be able to see if it made a difference.

At this point it would be worth a shot.  Post the px if you do this so we can see it as well.  Hope this helps
Tell them I've gone fishing!

Offline freezerfiller

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Joined: Jan 2013
  • Location: Columbus, GA
  • Posts: 164
  • Unit(s): 998c SI
  • Software: ??
  • Accessories: Ipilot link
Re: Interference/Ghost signal on new 899
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2014, 08:46:08 AM »
X3 on the drain plug.  That would be a fairly cheap test as well.

Offline slabbacks

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Joined: Sep 2013
  • Location: Mid TN
  • Posts: 212
  • Is it Friday yet!
  • Unit(s): 898c HD SI / 859ci HD
  • Software: 6.490
Re: Interference/Ghost signal on new 899
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2014, 09:14:07 AM »
apologize about the re-post Greg...should had read farther down before posting. 
Tell them I've gone fishing!

Offline Humminbird_Greg

  • Humminbird Helper
  • Humminbird Staff
  • *
  • Joined: Mar 2009
  • Location: Eufaula, AL.
  • Posts: 6546
  • I help because I can
    • Humminbird Web Site
Re: Interference/Ghost signal on new 899
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2014, 10:32:04 AM »
Not a problem slabbacks – I didn’t even think about turning the drain plug handle sideways and testing.  I was just focused on getting it totally out of the way by inserting it from the inside of the boat.  I’ve had some experience in doing this but it was usually after the boat was launched and was starting to fill up with water…  ::)
Greg Walters at Humminbird
gwalters@johnsonoutdoors.com

Offline cache22

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Joined: Dec 2013
  • Location: arkansas
  • Posts: 36
  • Unit(s): 998c SI
  • Software: 6.74
Re: Interference/Ghost signal on new 899
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2014, 11:05:42 AM »
This is a fascinating discussion and it raises more questions in my mind than answers or suggestions  ??? First one: does turbulence from intake screen, plug or something else cause sonar returns (this would perhaps explain less ghosting at higher than idle speed when boat lifts object from water or while not moving) ???
Second One: is the transducer pinging when in simulation mode.. if it is shut down then it seems it has to be an artifact in the units programming ??? If pinging it would have to be overlaying simulation if you know what I mean.
Finally a comment: Ricard your illustation of sonar beam is great! I would like to see the same type of image looking horizontally. Then would have a 3d idea of beam shape.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2014, 11:07:36 AM by cache22 »

Offline jerklip

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Joined: Jan 2014
  • Location: Columbus, MS
  • Posts: 33
  • Unit(s): 899 with XHS 9 180T xducer
Re: Interference/Ghost signal on new 899
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2014, 04:38:37 PM »
Thank you again EVERYBODY !
On my "to do list":
1) Drain plug from inside, or at least turned as slabbacks suggested.  That's some pretty good sleuthing there slabbacks!  Note to self- Do this BEFORE launching (Greg).
2) Trying a spacer block if necessary. I want to reserve that as a last option.
3) There is actually still a small threaded portion of pipe that the screen was fitted to sticking out. See if I can remove that also.
4) Get better quality pictures/video.
5) Try with the transducer out of the mount, on pole or something, away from the boat, to see what happens.

Side note.  The pictures provided are with the SI at 455 kHz.  When I switch to 800, the left side is not usable at all.  Way to bright.  Right side looks gorgeous.  I'm assuming it's all related, but I'll find out eventually.

Again, I humbly appreciate all of the input and help and suggestions.  I am amazed.

Offline slabbacks

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Joined: Sep 2013
  • Location: Mid TN
  • Posts: 212
  • Is it Friday yet!
  • Unit(s): 898c HD SI / 859ci HD
  • Software: 6.490
Re: Interference/Ghost signal on new 899
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2014, 08:12:35 PM »
JL
  I went through the same thing with the screen.  From the help I got here I took the screen off the mount...cut the mount back to just enough threads to hold it tight and mounted a spacer and shield saver to push the xducer out a bit.

This is a shot after all was said and done with the mount along with what I started with and ended with.
Stick with it and with the help of these guys you'll be good to go soon.



« Last Edit: February 20, 2014, 08:49:56 PM by slabbacks »
Tell them I've gone fishing!

Offline rnvinc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Joined: Nov 2009
  • Location: Western KY
  • Posts: 4329
  • Unit(s): 1197c SI Combo, SOLIX G2 MSI
  • Software: Dependent on whim
  • Accessories: AS GRHA, MEGA 360, LowBird LSS 1 & 2
Re: Interference/Ghost signal on new 899
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2014, 10:12:05 PM »
This is a fascinating discussion and it raises more questions in my mind than answers or suggestions  ??? First one: does turbulence from intake screen, plug or something else cause sonar returns (this would perhaps explain less ghosting at higher than idle speed when boat lifts object from water or while not moving) ???
Second One: is the transducer pinging when in simulation mode.. if it is shut down then it seems it has to be an artifact in the units programming ??? If pinging it would have to be overlaying simulation if you know what I mean.
Finally a comment: Ricard your illustation of sonar beam is great! I would like to see the same type of image looking horizontally. Then would have a 3d idea of beam shape.


First One...:  Anything (or any part of the boat) that causes bubbles can be an issue...sonar does not like air...

Second One...:  The unit is not pinging during Simulation...The Simulation (both the Demo Simulator and the Forced Simulator)...are a recording preinstalled into the unit memory...(I think Doug V did most of the recordings for the Simulators on a lake in Missouri or Alabama)...

If there are anomolies in the Simulator recording ...it's because those anomolies were present when the recording was made for the Simumator....

Third One...here is Rickard's beam form depiction from the rear view (right SI beam only)...



Rickie



Offline rnvinc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Joined: Nov 2009
  • Location: Western KY
  • Posts: 4329
  • Unit(s): 1197c SI Combo, SOLIX G2 MSI
  • Software: Dependent on whim
  • Accessories: AS GRHA, MEGA 360, LowBird LSS 1 & 2
Re: Interference/Ghost signal on new 899
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2014, 10:30:29 PM »
Thank you again EVERYBODY !
On my "to do list":
1) Drain plug from inside, or at least turned as slabbacks suggested.  That's some pretty good sleuthing there slabbacks!  Note to self- Do this BEFORE launching (Greg).
2) Trying a spacer block if necessary. I want to reserve that as a last option.
3) There is actually still a small threaded portion of pipe that the screen was fitted to sticking out. See if I can remove that also.
4) Get better quality pictures/video.
5) Try with the transducer out of the mount, on pole or something, away from the boat, to see what happens.

Side note.  The pictures provided are with the SI at 455 kHz.  When I switch to 800, the left side is not usable at all.  Way to bright. Right side looks gorgeous.  I'm assuming it's all related, but I'll find out eventually.

Again, I humbly appreciate all of the input and help and suggestions.  I am amazed.


Bright images on "1 side only" could be a few possibilities...

1. *Harder bottom on that side (sonar reflects readily off of hard stuff)...
2. *Upward sloping bottom on that side (sonar reflects readily from stuff closer to 90° from the direction of the travel of the sound pulse)...
3. *Xducer rotated toward that side (aiming that side's piezo more toward the bottom)...
4. *Piezo failing on darker side (making the other brighter side seem blown out)...

If moving around over different bottom types creates differences in this "bright side"...(bright here but not over there)...then it's probably from items 1 or 2 above...

If the "bright side" stays bright over different bottom types...then it's probably from items 3 or 4 above...

I keep the SI Enhance window overlayed into my screen any time I'm using SI...this gives instance access to the SI Sensitivity setting ...which I change constantly depending on the bottom composition my boat happens to be over...to brighten or darken the SI image...

In this shot I had to nearly Max out the SI Sensitivitly to get enough of the sound pulse reflection from this mud bottom to make the image acceptable...



Rickie
« Last Edit: February 20, 2014, 11:08:30 PM by rnvinc »

Offline Rickard

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Joined: May 2009
  • Location: Mariefred, Sweden
  • Posts: 512
  • Unit(s): 999, 981, M37, LowBird-1, LowBird-2
Re: Interference/Ghost signal on new 899
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2014, 04:47:57 AM »
Quote
I would like to see the same type of image looking horizontally. Then would have a 3d idea of beam shape.

I found an older figure that I made for a discussion on the DI from SI technique. The transducer is located at the crossing between the dashed lines. The dashed lines represent left and right element surface. The shaded areas represent the distribution and intensity of sound transmitted from the left and right SI elements (starting at the crossing). Quite alot of sound is sent towards the surface. I have tried to draw a 3D figure, but these cases are so extreme that my program can't do that due to too low decimal resolution.
 
(There is a wide sector right under the transducer where left and right beam overlap. The large distance between left and right element array (about two inches) causes a phase shift between the beams and therefore also a complicated interference issue. The "fingers" pointing downwards indicate this interference. This is the reason why the DI from SI technique is doomed to be inferior to dedicated DI. But this is another subject and has nothing to do with Jerklips problems.)
 
Rickard
 
« Last Edit: February 21, 2014, 11:50:59 AM by Rickard »

Offline cache22

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Joined: Dec 2013
  • Location: arkansas
  • Posts: 36
  • Unit(s): 998c SI
  • Software: 6.74
Re: Interference/Ghost signal on new 899
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2014, 08:33:23 AM »
Thanks Guys.  One other random thought..... the interference line appears to be farther away from the transducer than either the screen or plug. Could misalignment of or in the transducer be causing it to pick up on the port corner of the hull?

Offline Humminbird_Greg

  • Humminbird Helper
  • Humminbird Staff
  • *
  • Joined: Mar 2009
  • Location: Eufaula, AL.
  • Posts: 6546
  • I help because I can
    • Humminbird Web Site
Re: Interference/Ghost signal on new 899
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2014, 08:59:04 AM »
That’s just due to some near-filed filtering that is automatically done to the Si sonar data.  Often you will see the multiple lines.  Set the SI Range to its lowest setting and you may see that there are multiple lines and not just the one big blurry one.

Example:
Greg Walters at Humminbird
gwalters@johnsonoutdoors.com

Offline jerklip

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Joined: Jan 2014
  • Location: Columbus, MS
  • Posts: 33
  • Unit(s): 899 with XHS 9 180T xducer
Re: Interference/Ghost signal on new 899
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2014, 02:51:59 PM »
Slabbbacks, your "before and after" shots are great.  I can see why you were pleased with those results. 
I know you were happy when you saw that come up on the screen.

Hopefully I get to do some tweaking tonight and this weekend.

Offline jerklip

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Joined: Jan 2014
  • Location: Columbus, MS
  • Posts: 33
  • Unit(s): 899 with XHS 9 180T xducer
Re: Interference/Ghost signal on new 899
« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2014, 12:09:54 AM »
Completely removed drain plug and the livewell screen/threaded pipe from transom.  Transom was flush smooth where these were. No improvement.  Here is a screen shot.ila_rendered

Transducer mounted on pole---if it was pointed out beside the boat at about a 45 (idle speed), the interference would go away!!!  In other words if I just forgot about keeping the face of the transducer parallel with the bottom, and just pointed it out away from the hull.

So here is what works:
Transducer on pole away from hull and prop
Increasing idle speed from 800 to 2000 rpms
Sitting dead still for several minutes

So what the heck does that mean?  Turbulance? from hull?  from prop?

I'm limited to places I can move the transducer because of the trailer bunks and the chines on the hull.  Slabbacks, evidently I need to try a combination like yours.

Not to hijack my own post, but I wanted to show a picture with the 800 kHz, because I think this is related to the left side interference.
ila_rendered
The two sides are way different in brightness.  Adjusting to improve one side just makes the other side worse.

I can get just fantastic images from this unit while on 455 kHz even with the interference ...
ila_rendered
...but I want to get the most out of the capability of the 800 kHz transduce that I paid extra for.

For the "Connected Transducer" I have the high def sidescan selected.  Is that correct?

Thanks y'all and I apologize the length of the post.

Offline rnvinc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Joined: Nov 2009
  • Location: Western KY
  • Posts: 4329
  • Unit(s): 1197c SI Combo, SOLIX G2 MSI
  • Software: Dependent on whim
  • Accessories: AS GRHA, MEGA 360, LowBird LSS 1 & 2
Re: Interference/Ghost signal on new 899
« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2014, 02:03:08 AM »
With the line going away while the xducer is mounted to a pole and it goes away while drifting...it seems it may be bubbles coming off the hull somehow...or the prop turbulence...

Can you temporarily mount the xducer on the opposing port side of the transom and test...?? (Maybe clamp the pole to the transom with the xducer attached and in the water..)

The darker right side in the images looks like the bottom is sloping down and away to the right...which would be normal for that side to be dark...

Do you know if this was the case...??

Keep at it...we'll get it...sometimes these things are very finicky...

Rickie

« Last Edit: February 23, 2014, 08:04:35 AM by rnvinc »

Offline slabbacks

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Joined: Sep 2013
  • Location: Mid TN
  • Posts: 212
  • Is it Friday yet!
  • Unit(s): 898c HD SI / 859ci HD
  • Software: 6.490
Re: Interference/Ghost signal on new 899
« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2014, 06:35:00 AM »
JL

  These guys are going to ask a ton of Q.  Just part of it.  A lot of knowledge and the only reason my shots look like that is from their advice and tips. 
Tell them I've gone fishing!

Offline jerklip

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Joined: Jan 2014
  • Location: Columbus, MS
  • Posts: 33
  • Unit(s): 899 with XHS 9 180T xducer
Re: Interference/Ghost signal on new 899
« Reply #24 on: February 23, 2014, 02:13:36 PM »
Thanks Rickie,

The bottom is not sloping away on the dark, right side.  It is all flat out there in that area.

I have enough slack available to me to try it on the port side.  Going to do that now.

Thank you guys.
Curtis

Offline jerklip

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Joined: Jan 2014
  • Location: Columbus, MS
  • Posts: 33
  • Unit(s): 899 with XHS 9 180T xducer
Re: Interference/Ghost signal on new 899
« Reply #25 on: February 23, 2014, 08:30:07 PM »
The transducer is gone.

 it came loose from a temporary mount.

I heard it when it hit the prop.

*sigh*



Offline slabbacks

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Joined: Sep 2013
  • Location: Mid TN
  • Posts: 212
  • Is it Friday yet!
  • Unit(s): 898c HD SI / 859ci HD
  • Software: 6.490
Re: Interference/Ghost signal on new 899
« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2014, 10:24:47 PM »
Dang bud!   Wishing ya better luck for sure.
Tell them I've gone fishing!

Offline rnvinc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Joined: Nov 2009
  • Location: Western KY
  • Posts: 4329
  • Unit(s): 1197c SI Combo, SOLIX G2 MSI
  • Software: Dependent on whim
  • Accessories: AS GRHA, MEGA 360, LowBird LSS 1 & 2
Re: Interference/Ghost signal on new 899
« Reply #27 on: February 24, 2014, 01:46:47 AM »
The transducer is gone.

 it came loose from a temporary mount.

I heard it when it hit the prop.

*sigh*




Now that does hurt...

Is your unit still under warranty...??

I would call HB and tell them the issues you were having ...and the testing that you were doing to try and trouble shoot it...(even give them the link to this thread where we were trouble shooting)...

Rickie
« Last Edit: February 24, 2014, 01:48:53 AM by rnvinc »

Offline jerklip

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Joined: Jan 2014
  • Location: Columbus, MS
  • Posts: 33
  • Unit(s): 899 with XHS 9 180T xducer
Re: Interference/Ghost signal on new 899
« Reply #28 on: February 24, 2014, 03:06:46 PM »
...the shock is wearing off kind of...

It's not Hbird's problem, it's mine.

Question on your rig, slabbbacks.   Will that arrangement and height give you any 2d down signal when on a slow or medium plane?  Or do you use a separate transducer for that?

Offline Humminbird_Greg

  • Humminbird Helper
  • Humminbird Staff
  • *
  • Joined: Mar 2009
  • Location: Eufaula, AL.
  • Posts: 6546
  • I help because I can
    • Humminbird Web Site
Re: Interference/Ghost signal on new 899
« Reply #29 on: February 24, 2014, 03:32:44 PM »
I agree with Rickie.  Call and speak sweetly and maybe you will get a sympathetic ear.  If they don’t want to cover it under warranty ask them to please ask their Supervisor about it and reference this page on the web site.  I think that there may have been something also wrong with the left Si sonar as both the 455kHz and 800kHz has a “haze” that I don’t think was due to where it was mounted.
Greg Walters at Humminbird
gwalters@johnsonoutdoors.com

Offline slabbacks

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Joined: Sep 2013
  • Location: Mid TN
  • Posts: 212
  • Is it Friday yet!
  • Unit(s): 898c HD SI / 859ci HD
  • Software: 6.490
Re: Interference/Ghost signal on new 899
« Reply #30 on: February 25, 2014, 02:06:51 AM »
Only use the stock xducer that came with the unit.  I used it for both running the water looking for stuff and also jigging off the back while in max mode.  Speed had a lot to do with what your going to see or not see.



Here I was running the same as above but after seeing these fish I went to neutral and was trying to find a marker to throw out



We all get grainy images from time to time, don't be discouraged in this.  We sometimes speak of snapshots worth posting and those for out on the water we use to find fish.  For every shot you see from guys with nice shots posted we have a ton of not so nice shots to go with them.  Don't think we have these screen views every time we hit the water.

 You will find that after you get your key settings in place you will still need to fine tune it to some degree depending on depth, bottom type ect. / this is part of the learning curve we all go through.

keep at it and it will come together

Tell them I've gone fishing!

Offline jerklip

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Joined: Jan 2014
  • Location: Columbus, MS
  • Posts: 33
  • Unit(s): 899 with XHS 9 180T xducer
Re: Interference/Ghost signal on new 899
« Reply #31 on: February 25, 2014, 09:40:11 AM »
Good grief slabbacks !!! That first image is stunning.  I may use that as the background for the screen on my phone!

Thanks for the encouragement.

Offline jerklip

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Joined: Jan 2014
  • Location: Columbus, MS
  • Posts: 33
  • Unit(s): 899 with XHS 9 180T xducer
Re: Interference/Ghost signal on new 899
« Reply #32 on: March 03, 2014, 12:32:32 PM »
I got a new transducer, new 1" thick plastic mounting board, springback bracket and angle block.
ila_rendered


Offline jerklip

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Joined: Jan 2014
  • Location: Columbus, MS
  • Posts: 33
  • Unit(s): 899 with XHS 9 180T xducer
Re: Interference/Ghost signal on new 899
« Reply #33 on: March 03, 2014, 02:29:04 PM »
The results are about the same. Much interference on 455.  But not near as much on 800.
Here is 455 pic.

Here is an 800 shot

Switching back and forth between 455 and 800 without changing any settings




On 800, the left side still mostly looks different than the right side.

Here are two shots in 800 of some pilings.  Scanned once from left, and once from right.  They look so different.


I'm grateful to be functioning again, and on 455 at least, this thing draws some amazing images.  I'm still completely fascinated.  But some things are still wrong.  The 455 returns much better images than the 800 hands down, in almost every situation.

I lost my 2D down signal when on a plane, but I think I can adjust that back in by moving the transducer some.

Any suggestions or observations are humbly appreciated.  Including any observations about how the transducer is now mounted.  I have not tried this new mount with the livewell screen removed yet.

Thanks,
Curtis


Offline Humminbird_Greg

  • Humminbird Helper
  • Humminbird Staff
  • *
  • Joined: Mar 2009
  • Location: Eufaula, AL.
  • Posts: 6546
  • I help because I can
    • Humminbird Web Site
Re: Interference/Ghost signal on new 899
« Reply #34 on: March 03, 2014, 03:07:26 PM »
Curtis,
Isn’t your HDSi transducer further back from the transom than the livewell screen sticks out?
Does the left Si look like this when the motor is shut down and trimmed all the way up?

Greg Walters at Humminbird
gwalters@johnsonoutdoors.com

Offline slabbacks

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Joined: Sep 2013
  • Location: Mid TN
  • Posts: 212
  • Is it Friday yet!
  • Unit(s): 898c HD SI / 859ci HD
  • Software: 6.490
Re: Interference/Ghost signal on new 899
« Reply #35 on: March 03, 2014, 07:18:14 PM »
When you are making your passes to search a area do you raise the motor some or do you leave it trimmed down?

In reference to what Greg spoke of about your motor try this.   Use 455 in one test and then go to 800.  Start a straight run then shut the motor off...raise the motor up out of the water and see if you still have the interference on the left screen.  You may need to get speed up some to allow for the drift at your set screen speed for a short time after killing the motor.  You can take a screen shot of each like you did above.

This will point to the motor as being the problem if the interference goes away.  May be wrong but it's worth a check
Tell them I've gone fishing!

Offline jerklip

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Joined: Jan 2014
  • Location: Columbus, MS
  • Posts: 33
  • Unit(s): 899 with XHS 9 180T xducer
Re: Interference/Ghost signal on new 899
« Reply #36 on: March 03, 2014, 11:33:04 PM »
I believe that my transducer is further back from the transducer than the livewell screen....not by much, but I think it does.
ila_rendered

I'm doing all the passes with the motor trimmed up, right to the point of starting into the tilt mode.

I'm not sure anymore about how it looks with the motor off, and trimmed up, so I'll check that out again.  It will be a few days.

I really appreciate the help and patience.

Offline rnvinc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Joined: Nov 2009
  • Location: Western KY
  • Posts: 4329
  • Unit(s): 1197c SI Combo, SOLIX G2 MSI
  • Software: Dependent on whim
  • Accessories: AS GRHA, MEGA 360, LowBird LSS 1 & 2
Re: Interference/Ghost signal on new 899
« Reply #37 on: March 04, 2014, 02:09:36 AM »
Jerklip...have you been in correspondence with HB on the washed out left SI on 800kHz..??

Have they asked for screenshots of the issue...??

With the new xducer showing no improvement in the left SI at 800kHz...maybe there is something amiss in the head unit...

Rickie
« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 02:11:34 AM by rnvinc »

Offline jerklip

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Joined: Jan 2014
  • Location: Columbus, MS
  • Posts: 33
  • Unit(s): 899 with XHS 9 180T xducer
Re: Interference/Ghost signal on new 899
« Reply #38 on: March 04, 2014, 10:09:20 AM »
Hey Rickie, yes I have been in touch with Hbird on the issue, have sent them pictures, and it has been passed to a specialist now.  I'll see what they say.  Thanks sir.

Offline Humminbird_Greg

  • Humminbird Helper
  • Humminbird Staff
  • *
  • Joined: Mar 2009
  • Location: Eufaula, AL.
  • Posts: 6546
  • I help because I can
    • Humminbird Web Site
Re: Interference/Ghost signal on new 899
« Reply #39 on: March 04, 2014, 12:03:38 PM »
Rule out the motor as a possible source of the bad left Si sonar first.  You can do this without the boat moving; just trim/trailer the motor all the way up.  If the left Si sonar changes than you know it was the motor and if it doesn’t than it is either the unit or the transducer.  You would need to find someone else with a Humminbird Si model unit (any one will do for testing) and try your unit on their power cable and Si transducer and their unit on your power cable and transducer.  The testing can be done while drifting as all you are looking for is whether the left and right Si sonar look the same or not.  I would go ahead and test at both 455kHz and 800kHz.
Greg Walters at Humminbird
gwalters@johnsonoutdoors.com

Offline jerklip

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Joined: Jan 2014
  • Location: Columbus, MS
  • Posts: 33
  • Unit(s): 899 with XHS 9 180T xducer
Re: Interference/Ghost signal on new 899
« Reply #40 on: March 04, 2014, 04:22:34 PM »
Hbird sent a software update for me to do.  I have v6.830 and the new one is v6.860.

But I am going to do the motor out of the water testing as you guys suggested, before I do any software updates.

Do you guys know of any issues with the newer v6.860?

Thank you.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2014, 10:08:22 AM by jerklip »

Offline jerklip

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Joined: Jan 2014
  • Location: Columbus, MS
  • Posts: 33
  • Unit(s): 899 with XHS 9 180T xducer
Re: Interference/Ghost signal on new 899
« Reply #41 on: March 09, 2014, 09:24:18 PM »
I have some new information if you guys are still willing to take a look.

I did the software update but I could not tell any difference.

To eliminate the motor as a source of the left side interference as you guys suggested, here are two pictures, sitting dead calm still in the water, 455kHz, and motor trimmed all the way up out of the water.

ila_rendered
ila_rendered


Here is the same thing, sitting dead calm still, motor trimmed all the way up out of the water, but this time on 800kHz.

ila_rendered

So there is still some interference, even with the motor up.

I have not found anyone yet to try swapping out with to test, but I'm looking.

And please look at that 800 image above.  The left and right side still do not match, and you can see strange layers coming up from the bottom on the left side scan, and DI.

Thank you again for any advice.
Curtis




Offline rnvinc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Joined: Nov 2009
  • Location: Western KY
  • Posts: 4329
  • Unit(s): 1197c SI Combo, SOLIX G2 MSI
  • Software: Dependent on whim
  • Accessories: AS GRHA, MEGA 360, LowBird LSS 1 & 2
Re: Interference/Ghost signal on new 899
« Reply #42 on: March 09, 2014, 10:19:00 PM »
Did you send the original CSI xducer back to HB as a trade in..??..(another xducer to cross test with would be beneficial)...

Also...stay in contact with HB while the unit is still in warranty...(did you register for the HB Select Program...??)...

I think something is amiss in the head unit...

Rickie
« Last Edit: March 09, 2014, 10:20:06 PM by rnvinc »

Offline jerklip

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Joined: Jan 2014
  • Location: Columbus, MS
  • Posts: 33
  • Unit(s): 899 with XHS 9 180T xducer
Re: Interference/Ghost signal on new 899
« Reply #43 on: March 09, 2014, 10:49:29 PM »
Yes sir, I did send the original CSI transducer back for the upgrade.

But this is my second XHS 9 HDSI 180 T transducer.  Same results for both.  And I never tried the original CSI model.

I will stay in touch with HB.  I did register the unit, but I don't know anything about a "Select" program.  I'll check that out.

Thanks a ton Rickie.

Curtis


Offline slabbacks

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Joined: Sep 2013
  • Location: Mid TN
  • Posts: 212
  • Is it Friday yet!
  • Unit(s): 898c HD SI / 859ci HD
  • Software: 6.490
Re: Interference/Ghost signal on new 899
« Reply #44 on: March 09, 2014, 11:31:19 PM »
I got a new transducer, new 1" thick plastic mounting board, springback bracket and angle block.
(Attachment Link)

Jerklip

 This may be a long shot and maybe some of the others could tell better...in the last picture (in the post in reference to you mounting the 1" mounting block)  it looks as though the transducer has a angle to it.  It looks like the left side is tipped up more than the right based off how the boat is setting.

« Last Edit: March 09, 2014, 11:35:56 PM by slabbacks »
Tell them I've gone fishing!

Offline jerklip

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Joined: Jan 2014
  • Location: Columbus, MS
  • Posts: 33
  • Unit(s): 899 with XHS 9 180T xducer
Re: Interference/Ghost signal on new 899
« Reply #45 on: March 10, 2014, 12:06:57 AM »
Thanks Slabbacks.  I've moved the transducer (several times) since that picture.
This is what it looks like now.  I tried to get it square with the world, and if anything, it may be tilted up on the right now. 

ila_rendered
ila_rendered


Not sure if you can tell anything from these shots or not.

Thank you,
Curtis

Offline slabbacks

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Joined: Sep 2013
  • Location: Mid TN
  • Posts: 212
  • Is it Friday yet!
  • Unit(s): 898c HD SI / 859ci HD
  • Software: 6.490
Re: Interference/Ghost signal on new 899
« Reply #46 on: March 10, 2014, 12:42:28 AM »
Big difference in that shot.  I hope you can get her figured out with all the work your putting into it.

So the last shot I just saw is the set up you done your last test with?
Tell them I've gone fishing!

Offline jerklip

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Joined: Jan 2014
  • Location: Columbus, MS
  • Posts: 33
  • Unit(s): 899 with XHS 9 180T xducer
Re: Interference/Ghost signal on new 899
« Reply #47 on: March 10, 2014, 06:53:28 AM »
Yes sir that's the same set up I did the last tests on with one exception. The back end (trailing edge) edge of the transducer was angled down more. I raised it some just to take these pictures.   I can still get a 2D bottom signal on a pretty fast plane with it tilted down a few degrees so I like that part.
Thanks sir,
Curtis

Offline rnvinc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Joined: Nov 2009
  • Location: Western KY
  • Posts: 4329
  • Unit(s): 1197c SI Combo, SOLIX G2 MSI
  • Software: Dependent on whim
  • Accessories: AS GRHA, MEGA 360, LowBird LSS 1 & 2
Re: Interference/Ghost signal on new 899
« Reply #48 on: March 10, 2014, 10:29:53 AM »
Here is the HB Select program that will give you a second year warranty...

You should sign up for this before your 1st year goes out...(and the sooner-the better)..

http://www.humminbirdselect.com/

Rickie

Offline spyder357

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Joined: May 2013
  • Location: Minnesota
  • Posts: 5
  • Unit(s): 597 HD DI, 899ci HD SI
Re: Interference/Ghost signal on new 899
« Reply #49 on: March 10, 2014, 11:42:11 AM »
Couple of questions

1. Do you have the 'ducer cable routed to the helm near any power lines. I would expect it to affect both left and right readings but you never know.

If it runs near any powerline you want to have them as perpindicular as possible where the two cables meet  to eliminate crosstalk.

2. Do you have the bilge pump/aerator or any other pump going while testing? It looks like you have an intake, and two outlets just to the left of the transducer?
3. Are there any other electronics turned on while this is running, have you tried it with the motor trimmed all the way up and everything else in the boat completely turned off?

If you still have the problem after testing it with everything else turned off/motor up...I'd start to suspect the head unit.



Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
6 Replies
4453 Views
Last post April 30, 2012, 04:51:39 PM
by sonar2000
1 Replies
3252 Views
Last post September 14, 2012, 12:57:30 PM
by ITGEEK
4 Replies
4176 Views
Last post September 17, 2012, 03:32:38 PM
by Humminbird_Greg
10 Replies
6412 Views
Last post January 28, 2014, 10:38:41 AM
by Humminbird_Greg
2 Replies
3283 Views
Last post September 16, 2013, 07:33:41 PM
by Alloutdoors
2 Replies
2365 Views
Last post March 30, 2015, 07:53:19 PM
by fshndude
3 Replies
4183 Views
Last post June 13, 2017, 10:35:59 PM
by rnvinc
2 Replies
1026 Views
Last post March 25, 2022, 10:16:17 AM
by Blacklab


SimplePortal 2.3.3 © 2008-2010, SimplePortal