Topic: Problem running dual 1199s with 360 Imaging

[KBarr]

Greetings,

I recently upgraded my bow unit to an 1199, it originally was a 958 DI.  I was out on the water yesterday and suddenly my 360 imaging is not functioning properly (see attached image).

Here are the specifics of my system:

Console Unit - Humminbird 1199ci HD,  FW version 6.640
Bow Unit - Humminbird 1199ci, FW version 6.680
360 Imaging

In addition to the 360 imaging problems, I am also experiencing that on the console unit, when I deploy the 360 imaging, as I scroll through the views, the unit gets to the a particular view and locks and restarts, this is very repeatable.  This never occurred before the addition of the 1199 at the bow.

Some things I did to troubleshoot the 360 imaging issue:
 - shutoff  the boat motor, NO CHANGE
 - cycled power several times, NO CHANGE
 - powered down, disconnected bow unit and powered back up - NO CHANGE 

Trouble shooting for the 1199 Console unit restart issue
 - Disconnected BOW unit and powered back up - NO CHANGE
 - Removed all MAP cards (running Lakemaster 5.0) and powered back up - NO CHANGE

One thing I have observed is that when the 360 imaging is running, I hear a cyclical "knocking", I am not sure if that has always been there or not.  The 360 unit was not struck or anything like that.

Any support would be greatly appreciated.

Kevin

[Humminbird_Greg]

Kevin,
Does either of these problems happen when the bow mounted 1199 unit is shut off?
Can you try swapping units around and see if the problem stays at the console location or that it stays with the original 1199 unit?
Are the two 1199 unit Ethernet connected?

[KBarr]

Greg,

Greetings.  The screen shut down issue occurs on the Console Unit but not on the Bow Unit.  Even if I disconnect the Bow unit, the console unit still has the restart issue. 

Yes, the two units are on ethernet.

The 360 imaging problem is present on both units.

All of this started when I installed the 2nd 1199,  do I need to run matching FW in both units?

Thanks,

Kevin

[Humminbird_Greg]

Kevin,
You may want o go back and check the software versions in both 199ci HD Si units.  I don’t have a record of them having either the 6.640 nor 6.680 versions of software.  The earliest they could have would be a 6.8XX version.

Try the console 1199 nit on the bow to see if it restarts there or not.

Try testing either unit with only one 1199 unit running at a time for the 360 Imaging problem.  Also check to see how you have the unit set up to use the 360 Imaging.  What you may be seeing is what some call the “Wagon Wheel” effect.  This is from a FAQ from the Humminbird Web site:

I am seeing images that look something like a wagon wheel on my 360 Imaging. What is this?
This could happen for two reasons:
1.   When using multiple units with a single transducer or multiple transducers and the 360 Imaging Accessory.  This is Crosstalk/Noise. 

a.  With two or more units using a single transducer the SI transducer will ping all the time.  This is because we cannot currently track which view each unit is on.  To prevent data from not appearing on a remote view when it should we ping all the beams.  To prevent noise/crosstalk between an SI transducer and a 360 Accessory the user should select the 360 as their SI/DI source ON BOTH UNITS when the 360 is deployed and use the SI Transducer as their SI/DI source when the 360 is retracted.  The user could also opt to subscribe to no SI/DI source ON BOTH UNITS while the 360 is deployed.  Turning sonar off is also a possible solution but several 360 features will not work correctly without a valid digital depth.

b.  With two or more units using two or more different transducers the problem is mitigating multiple transducers.  If both transducers are subscribed to their local units then when a unit goes to a 360 view (assuming that the 360 is deployed) the local SI transducer will stop pinging on that single unit – the problem is that the other SI transducers on the other units continues to ping.  If both units when a 360 view then both SI transducer would stop pinging.
2.   Using a single unit with a single transducer and a 360 Accessory:

a.  In this scenario the 360 and SI transducer will stop/start pinging when necessary.  Assuming that the 360 is deployed, while on the an SI/DI view the 360 will stop pinging.  While on a 360 view the SI transducer will stop pinging.

b.  If the 360 is selected as the SI/DI source the 360 will stop rotating and Home if the user stays on an SI view for more than 2 seconds.  The 360 will restart rotation if the user goes to a 360 view for more than two seconds.


The best solution is to subscribe to the 360 as their SI/DI source while using the 360 Accessory and then subscribe back to the SI transducer when they are done using 360. 

[KBarr]

Greg,

I am probably wrng on the FW versions, I was trying to recall from memory.  I did unplug the bow unit and ran the 360 imaging, same effect, but I will verify again. 

If the fix below is what solves it, this is a very poor design.  I am supposed to be switching Sonar sources manually at my bow and console units each time I want to use 360??? These systems should be much smarter than this (especially for the cost). 


Thanks Greg for the help!

[LocDown]

is your trolling motor being used or are you drifting with no motors running when the 360 is on? I know I get some interference on my 360 when my powerdrive is running. I have some ferrite cores coming to clip onto my ethernet cable to see if that helps.

[KBarr]

Greg,

Update.  I upgraded both my units as well as the 360 and iPilot.  That appears to have fixed the restart issue. 

Regarding the "wagon wheel" artifacts I did some testing and I have found that if I keep the Bow Unit powered off and I set the 2D potion of the Transducer selection screen to have NO transducer selected, the 360 functions normally.

Is this going to be on HB Bug List to fix?

I am wondering Greg if I could pick your brain with a few other questions?

- I running my 1199 Bow unit with a Minn Kota Terova (sp) that has the built in transducer.  Do you know what transducer type I should select in the Sonar Tab?  Do I pick the Side Imaging, Dual Beam or other?  Right. Now I have Dual beam Selected and it's working

-  The other question I have is I have BOTH a SI Transducer and a Dual Beam Transducer "Y"d together to my main console 1199 unit.  When running this configuration, what transducer type should I select on the Sonar Tab?  Should I keep the Side Imaging transducer Selected.  Also,  in this configuration, does the 1199 use the Dual Beam for the 2D Sonar readings automatically?

Thanks Greg for all your support and sorry for all the questions.

Regards,

Kevin

[Humminbird_Greg]

Kevin,
I do not have access to any bug list, so I do not know if that is on it or not.

For the 1199 on the Terrova Universal Sonar transducer you should use the DualBeam setting like you have been doing.

For the 1199 with the HDSi and DualBeam transducers connected via an AS-Si-DB-Y cable you should be using the standard Hi-Def Sidescan menu setting.  When these two transducers are connected with this splitter cable it all looks like one HDSi transducer to the unit.  The AS-Si-DB-Y splitter cable changes where the 2D sonar connections go.  They are removed from the HDSi transducer and are rerouted to the DualBeam transducer.  So at all times the 2D sonar comes from the DualBeam transducer.

[KBarr]

Thanks Greg, makes sense.

I appreciate the support.

Kevin

[Skymaster]

I just joined this site recently after finding a discussion for a problem I also was experiencing.  The solution was in the mix and might be worth mentioning here.  I am running two 1199s and a recently installed bow mounted 360, all of which are 'new' to me as I always seemed to have Lowrance gear.  Only a few minutes of watching a HB unit using the Lakemaster map made a believer out of me!  That said, I only have a few hours experience on the water, but have had a couple of issues, one of which was not being able to get one unit to 'save' waypoints.  It would give the little "waypoint saved" window, but not give a wp number, and there would be no wp on the map.  My other unit worked as advertised.  Somewhere on this site an identical problem was mention and the solution offered said "put an SD card" in the unit.  Each unit had/has the Lakemaster card, but I tried the suggestion, adding a blank SD card to each unit.  That's all it took.  Don't ask me why, but on the trailer, it worked fine, saving and numbering the wp, and they were on the map, too.  On the water, same.  The SD card seemed to be the trick. 

But addressing the shutdown issue:  My units were doing the same thing, usually one more than the other.  On the trailer or on the water, after startup the 360 didn't seem to be 'connecting' to the network and attempts to change the 'view' would lead to the unit stopping, as if frozen.  Repeated attempts to change view would result in a 'shutdown'.  Then without any input on my part the unit would restart.  Then trying to make any changes to enable a view change would lead to the self shutdown/startup again.  Very frustrating. 

As I could find nothing to help in the manuals or on-line, I called HB and the technician did some off-line 'research and stated the latest software download (7.020) was supposed to take care of the auto shutdown issue.  They suggested me shut down then disconnect the control head from the network and re start.  Then after shutting down again re-connecting to the network I powered up and the views/Exit buttons worked as advertised, changing views without causing a shut down.  The '360' views seemed to be the ones that couldn't be shown when the 'shut downs' were occurring.  Removing from the network, then reconnecting seemed to be the fix.  All this 'solution' was done 'on the trailer'.  The boat was powered down and I headed for the lake.  On the water when I powered up the HB my console unit came up normally, but the bow unit AGAIN did the auto-shutdown/repower thing!  My 5 port Ethernet switch is mounded next to my bow unit, so I did the disconnect/power down/reconnect by unplugging from switch.  When I repowered all worked again.

I have used the system a few times since without the problem recurring, but from what HB said, there is definitely a problem and hopefully a fix is in the works.  What little experience I've had leads me to think the 360 may be part of the problem, and I've become very intentional about 'waiting' for the 360 to be "connected" (as noted on the Accessory Test view) before I start punching buttons.  It seems to take a little time to 'connect', and trying to change to a 360 view before it connects seemed to trigger the freeze up, then the shut down event.  It's only a thought, but I've had no problems with this issue now that I wait for that 'connect'.

That 'wagon-wheel' effect on my 360 seemed to be a problem when I left the console unit(s) sonar ON.  I still have a Lowrance unit built in for 2D sonar, and with it OR the 1199 sonar on, the 'wagon-wheel' look would be on the 360.  Of course, even with sonar OFF on console, I can still view the 360 at work back on the console 1199. 

Sorry this ran long........

[Humminbird_Greg]

Skymaster for your unit that has to have the SD card in it to save a waypoint: try taking the SD card out and turn the Screen Snapshot menu “Off”.  With that menu “On” with no SD card in the unit it will look like it saves a waypoint but does not actually do so – just like yours was.

[Skymaster]

Thanks for that recommendation.  I'll give that a try.  I can't recall whether I had that Screen Snapshot 'on' or not.  Being 'new' to these systems I make a lot of key punches, with varying results, so I very well may have had one unit with it 'on' and the other unit having it 'off'.  Only one of my 1199s was not saving the waypoints and it sounds like the problem was as you described. 

On another note:  I just returned from the lake and experienced the 'auto-shutdown/restart' again.  Couldn't get the 'view' to change after what seemed to be a normal start-up, then unit shut down and restarted.  Wanting to get a hook in the water I didn't mess with it further, so I shut it down manually, then de-powered the network.  I restarted the 1199, then repowered the network, waited for all the 'accessories' to connect, and everything worked.  I did note 'how' I depowered/repowered the network, and it was just a matter of disconnecting the power cable from the network switch (where the cables for the two 1199s and the 360 are plugged). 

If you hear of others having the auto shutdown/startup, please post it.  I haven't called HB again to see if they are working on a fix.

Thanks

[LocDown]

My auto shutdown/restart fix is when it asks to deploy the 360 say no. Scroll screens until you get to a 360 screen and asks to deploy. Deploy and enjoy. Don't let it auto-deploy when it asks after discovering it on the network.

[Skymaster]

Thanks for the recommendation, but I have the bow mount 360, so I only have to deal with the "do you want to 'ping'?" prompt.  That window comes up when/if I get to a 360 'view'.  When my unit is not wanting to change views I don't even see the 'ping' prompt.  Unless I can get to the 'view' showing the Accessory connections, I don't even know whether the 360 has been recognized by the network/units.

Of course with the bow mount I don't have to worry about exceeding the 360 deployed speed, unless I want to get soaked trying to get on plane with the trolling motor down!

SM