Author Topic: Portable battery with Helix 9 (Read 17848 times)

Billfish1984 · « **on:** October 26, 2015, 10:02:22 AM »

Can I use a portable battery with the Helix 9? I would like to be able to carry the unit between two boats. I would get a removable bracket for the transducer to mount it on both boats. Also is anything else needed to use AutoChart Live?

rnvinc · « **Reply #1 on:** October 26, 2015, 09:31:29 PM »

The specs for the HELIX 9 indicate power draw at 1 amp so I would think a portable battery would operate the HELIX for several hours ...
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AutoChart Live is built into the HELIX 9 and has capability to record 8 hrs of AutoChart Live data into the internal memory ...

You can add a Zero Line card and record AutoChart Live data directly to the Zero Line card ...

http://www.humminbird.com/Products/AUTOCHART-ZLINE-SD-N-AM/

Rickie

Billfish1984 · « **Reply #2 on:** October 27, 2015, 07:16:11 AM »

Thanks Rickie; does the Zero Lines Card also update 'Live'?

Billfish1984 · « **Reply #3 on:** November 28, 2015, 07:25:14 PM »

I am not certain a portable battery can be used with a Helix 9. Does someone know, or know where I can find out?

rnvinc · « **Reply #4 on:** November 28, 2015, 10:33:27 PM »

Quote from: Billfish1984 on October 27, 2015, 07:16:11 AM

Thanks Rickie; does the Zero Lines Card also update 'Live'?

The unit menu allows you to select where to save the AutoChart Live data (internal memory or Zero Lines card) ...

8 hours of AutoChart Live data can be saved into the internal memory ...

Once that 8 hours is full ...any new AutoChart Live data starts overwriting the earliest recorded AutoChart Live data ...

If the Zero Lines card is selected as where to save AutoChart Live data ... The amount of data is only limited by how much the Zero Lines card will hold ... Which is a bunch ...

Rickie

rnvinc · « **Reply #5 on:** November 28, 2015, 10:38:01 PM »

Quote from: Billfish1984 on November 28, 2015, 07:25:14 PM

I am not certain a portable battery can be used with a Helix 9. Does someone know, or know where I can find out?

The specs say the power input rating is 10-20vdc ...

As long as your portable battery is outputting a voltage higher than 10 ...the unit doesn't care if it's a portable battery or a full size battery ...

Rickie

Billfish1984 · « **Reply #6 on:** November 28, 2015, 10:44:01 PM »

Thanks Rickie, but the reason I asked again is this:
http://www.westmarine.com/buy/humminbird--gel-cell-battery-kit--8659252?cm_mmc=PS-_-Google-_-Shopping_PLAs-_-8659252&adpos=1o2&creative=54601694764&device=m&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=CPWwwtGrtMkCFYEfHwodhJsE1w
And this, under View All Features:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1121326-REG/humminbird_770027_1_portable_7ah_battery_only.html

FishSeeker · « **Reply #7 on:** November 29, 2015, 12:45:16 AM »

I run my 798 Ci HD SI unit all day, no problem, on this battery from Amazon;
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KC39BE6?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=od_aui_detailpages00

Billfish1984 · « **Reply #8 on:** November 29, 2015, 06:07:38 AM »

Quote from: FishSeeker on November 29, 2015, 12:45:16 AM

I run my 798 Ci HD SI unit all day, no problem, on this battery from Amazon;
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KC39BE6?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=od_aui_detailpages00

Thanks!

rnvinc · « **Reply #9 on:** November 29, 2015, 10:00:37 PM »

Quote from: Billfish1984 on November 28, 2015, 10:44:01 PM

Thanks Rickie, but the reason I asked again is this:
http://www.westmarine.com/buy/humminbird--gel-cell-battery-kit--8659252?cm_mmc=PS-_-Google-_-Shopping_PLAs-_-8659252&adpos=1o2&creative=54601694764&device=m&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=CPWwwtGrtMkCFYEfHwodhJsE1w
And this, under View All Features:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1121326-REG/humminbird_770027_1_portable_7ah_battery_only.html

I understand the list of compatible units in those batteries is limited ...

The basic limitation is in how many hours the unit will operate given the amp hour rating of the battery ...and the input needed to operate the unit ...

A 7ah battery should last 7 hours at 1 amp output ...

The higher amp hour rating you can find (like the one FishSeeker lists) = the longer your unit will operate before the unit shuts itself off within its built in "low power shutoff" criteria ...

Rickie

Billfish1984 · « **Reply #10 on:** November 30, 2015, 08:16:18 PM »

Thanks for the replies. It got me thinking and I found this:
http://www.fishfindermounts.com/#!product/prd1/2792762631/10ah-magnetic-boat-mount-system---large-sized-ff's
I like how the battery is stored, and it gives flexibility for using the Helix.

rnvinc · « **Reply #11 on:** November 30, 2015, 09:04:32 PM »

Quote from: Billfish1984 on November 30, 2015, 08:16:18 PM

Thanks for the replies. It got me thinking and I found this:
http://www.fishfindermounts.com/#!product/prd1/2792762631/10ah-magnetic-boat-mount-system---large-sized-ff's
I like how the battery is stored, and it gives flexibility for using the Helix.

That's a very viable option ... And a neat product ...

Rickie

Bob B · « **Reply #12 on:** December 01, 2015, 04:50:09 PM »

One thing to keep in mind about battery performance is that it is not recommended to discharge a battery below 50% charge to get the best battery life......This % may be slightly different with different battery compositions.....So, a 10AH battery would only have a useful 5AH if this suggestion is followed.
A colder outdoor temperature will also reduce the performance of a battery.......I would use a larger battery than you think you need.

Billfish1984 · « **Reply #13 on:** December 01, 2015, 05:45:23 PM »

A friend of mine owns a battery store and said the same. I think I am going with an 18 amp hour battery that weighs 12 pounds.

Billfish1984 · « **Reply #14 on:** December 01, 2015, 05:48:43 PM »

This is pretty interesting:
http://www.chasintailtv.com/articles/diy-angler/199-make-your-fishfinder-portable

Gimp · « **Reply #15 on:** December 01, 2015, 06:28:29 PM »

Here's a little bit of my experience. I wanted a very light battery to use with my 998 SI. I wanted to be able to run it all day (at least 15 hours) on a single charge. I wanted a battery that needed next to no maintenance and one that I could charge very quickly and often times many days in a row.

SLA batteries were totally out of the question. Even Gel Cells and other 'glass' style batteries were a no go. I was looking up Lithium Polymer Ion batteries for R/C cars (Li-Ion LiPo batteries wouldn't work for me because of their tendency not to work well in the cold and they don't last enough charging cycles for me) when I came upon Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4) batteries. Not doing my research thoroughly enough, I picked up a Shorai 18 Ah battery thinking I'd meet all the criteria I'd want in a battery.

I was very wrong. Shoria and other motor sport starting batteries are rated differently than deep cycle batteries. There is actually a sticker on the bottom of my battery that states it is actually a 6Ah battery when the sticker on the side of the battery says it is 18Ah.

The other thing is this battery, and many Lithium starter batteries, don't have a Battery Management System (BMS) wired directly in the battery. What that means is I would have to be very careful not to totally discharge the battery or I would damage it.

Since that little expensive error I have gotten a LiFePO4 15Ah battery with a BMS board inside the case and things are going along as planned. I've charged it more times than I could have gotten away with on a SLA battery without a hiccup and no battery performance loss. I use this setting it right on the ice while ice fishing and in the hot sun in the middle of the summer. The big disadvantage is the initial cost of a LiFePO4. But from the performance I'm getting from my Depthfinder battery and the larger LiFePO4 I'm running my trolling motor on (which was quite the initial start up cost but the weight totally makes up for it at 26lbs. vs 85-95lbs. for an AGM or SLA battery) my charge times are very low and I already have dozens and dozens of charge cycles without any sign of loss in performance. The other cool thing is they don't slowly taper in voltage as they drain. I'm running these things all day and the voltmeters, under load, barely move.

Bob B · « **Reply #16 on:** December 01, 2015, 06:35:15 PM »

There's no doubt the LiFePO4 is a great battery .... and the BMS board is necessary to prevent it from getting too hot when charging.......Sure wish the price on them would come down.

What brand are you using and what type charger are you using?

Gimp · « **Reply #17 on:** December 01, 2015, 06:51:33 PM »

For the 998 I'm running this battery with this charger.

Billfish1984 · « **Reply #18 on:** December 01, 2015, 07:00:33 PM »

Quote from: Gimp on December 01, 2015, 06:51:33 PM

For the 998 I'm running this battery with this charger.

Definitely pricey for my tastes. My battery expert friend told me if I get a smaller battery like a 10 amp-hour and discharge it 75 percent, I might get 200 re-charge cycles out of it. And it would progressively lose capacity and get down to 25 percent quicker. But if I got a bigger battery and stayed above 75 percent I might get 2000 re-charge cycles, with minimal loss of capacity.
I wonder if bigger is more important, even if cheaper.

Gimp · « **Reply #19 on:** December 01, 2015, 07:23:28 PM »

Here's the case I made for it. The battery sits under the GPS antenna. For ice fishing the transducer drops out the back and is in a separate hole to avoid a tangled mess.

sfw1960 · « **Reply #20 on:** December 13, 2015, 04:26:04 AM »

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-12AH-Sealed-Lead-Acid-Battery-Compatible-with-Universal-Power-UB12120-D5775-/321909490381

Ken L · « **Reply #21 on:** December 20, 2015, 05:21:14 PM »

A couple of points here. I don't share the views here and elsewhere on SLA's. I have a 598 with SI. My 7AH batteries last for years. I have one that is now 8 years old and running strong. I once hooked it up with the polarity reversed and discharged it to zero. That was two years ago. Everything wears out in time but to me these things seem hard to kill.
Rechargeable batteries will usually reach maximum capacity after between ten and twenty cycles. Capacity will decline after that but slowly. Deep discharges will shorten life but not all that much. The day will come when it won't hold a charge and it's junk but it won' t come with a warning in the form of a loss of capacity.
The other thing I often wonder about is why people put these things in boxes. It's already in a sealed waterproof box.

sfw1960 · « **Reply #22 on:** December 20, 2015, 06:04:07 PM »

I guess everybody has opinions.... I have about 25 years of experience to form mine from.

I've had 7amp SLAs last me over 6 years and I've had them go South in as little as 2 years. The newer ones have less lead & thinner plates so they don't last as long as the old ones did.
The basic 7 AMP SLA isn't worth a hoot on the ice in 15-20 degree WX; I ran a Lowrance X70A off 2 - 7 amp in parallel B/C it would eat a single in 4 hours - or course a CCFL display takes more juice than an LED back light does.
I ran a Lowrance LMS332c off a 7amp and had to baby that to get 6 hours out of it.
I ran a 798ciSI off a 7amp also, with the back light dimmed to get more than 4 hours out of it.
I used the 12 AH SLA for about 3 of the 4 years I used the 798 on the ice - my son has it now and it's "soft" but will work for a half day no problem.
In warmer temps you'll get much more run time from any SLA.
I have a brand new 12amp SLA I'm going to run a 688ciHDDI on because I can't seem to devise a way to fit an 899 or 999 into a 5 gallon bucket that will be safe & sturdy while traveling.
I already know of a way to rig it so it would fit, but don't feel good about a $1200 dollar machine getting trashed at 30MPH flying on the ice.

Ken L · « **Reply #23 on:** December 20, 2015, 06:26:29 PM »

I guess I could claim over 25 years of experience with SLA's but it was smaller units. There are a iot more electric only or 10 hp limit lakes here in NJ so big boats with big units don't have as many places to fish. I know I seldom discharged below 50%. If I did I guess I would go to a 12 or a 17. The 35AH I used for the trolling motor on my kayak just died last Spring after 8 years.

sfw1960 · « **Reply #24 on:** December 20, 2015, 06:42:05 PM »

You could address operating temperatures, but chose not to also.
SLA's work great in warmer climes...
I haven't been around to the East Coast in a few months, but the fishing opportunities are fewer than my home state, I'm glad I live in Michigan.
I fish in all kinds of adverse conditions - I also fish on bodies of water (3k-5k acres) that many folks wouldn't last long on with electric only.
Many 500/600/700 series only draw about 650-700maH of power.
The Larger units draw 1.1 to 2.5 amps so a 7AH isn't going to cut it running a Helix 9.
That's what the OP was inquiring about and I brought what I knew worked to the table.
The Helix 9 SI draws about an amp or so, FWIW.

Ken L · « **Reply #25 on:** December 21, 2015, 06:40:59 PM »

I'm glad you live in Michigan too. What I said was a general reply on SLA's, not specific applications. I stand on what I said but only on what I said.

Ken L · « **Reply #26 on:** December 22, 2015, 03:05:40 PM »

If you're going out in cold weather put your battery in something to keep it warm. An insulated lunch bag or an appropriately sized cooler. As it discharges it will generate some heat and trapping it will tend to keep it warm. As a genarel rule the speed of a chemical reaction doubles with every ten degree increase in temperature and the opposite for decreases. All battery chemistries we are likely to use are subject to this.
There are a number of concerns with LiPo's aside from the price. They will die if overcharged or under charged. They usually come with circuitry that prevents both but it is something that can go wrong. They also discharge at an almost steady voltage. Once it reaches the lower limit it shuts down completely so you have no warning. LiPo's deteriorate with time regardless of use. SLA's will almost certainly last longer if not a lot longer.
On most forums when this topic comes up there is a lot of overkill just to be safe. If the application is to be portable the lightest battery you can get away with is optimal as an engineer would say. This is a vote in favor of a LiPo but lead acid capacity after an outing is far easier to measure. In an SLA a fully charged battery is going to read at least 12.8 and when freshly charged as much as 14 volts. Fully discharge batteries will read 11.8 or lower. You can buy a cheap digital volt meter for under Ten bucks to measure this. If you never get a reading below say 12.5 you can lighten up. The opposite is also true.
SlA's survive complete discharges and deep discharges quite well.

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