Topic: Navionics Platinum+ series charts & Community users based SonarCharts

[Drifter]

All I know about it is what I read on the Web. =========------>

Navionics Community users record their sonar logs and upload them on navionics.com, where updated charts can be downloaded  within 24 hours

http://www.navionics.com/en/sonarcharts

SonarChartsTM (English) GC

Tight lines,
Darrell

PS - Anybody have any suggested resources for running phone apps on a PC?

[ITGEEK]

The only problem with this is:
  How good is the equipment the community users are using?
  Is it dialed in correctly?
  Is the tranducer offset set right to record the correct
  depth.

 Sounds like a way for Navionics to make money off of free labor.
 I would not trust any part of a map created this way.

[Jim Jack]

Navionics assumes no offset entered and use 18" offset they add. They cross reference with other user data and official data if available.

I don't really trust anyone's maps but so much, that includes NOAA's, some of the soundings and obstructions and Auth depths are 20-30 years old.

[Humminbird_Greg]

I wonder how this will work with lake level fluctuations; especially for those lakes that normally see large depth changes thorough the year.

[ITGEEK]

It sounds like a lazy and inaccurate way for Navionics
to add maps to their library.
And of course, they are going to sell those to the public.

I don't know if they do this or not, but any person who gives them
free map information/sonar logs should get a discount on their
map chips.

[Rough House]

So last season i opted on doing some sonar logs for navionics. I think i did around 20 or so.  Its pretty simple. They send you a card, you plug it in, hit record and go fishing.  I did this because the data that navionics (and every other map card) for Lake Erie has very little information. (eastern basin)  So i figured id contribute to helping them out because in the long run it will benefit me as well as others fishing that part of the lake.  From what i was told by navionics CS is that the take the data you have recorded and check it with the data that they already have on file. So if there are significant differences changes might be applied.  There is a specific area called the "mountain" where I fish that is actually a big mountain under the water.  Depth goes from 75 up to 55 then back down to 90ft.  Its very wide and long but the drop offs on either side are quit substantial and hold fish.  This is not marked on the navionics cards very well, So im hoping that some of the information that i recorded will help them put this information on they map cards.
     Now for the lake level fluctuations, they told me that they check the water gauges at the particular lake (with lake erie have hundreds) to see if the levels are lower or higher than normal and take that into account. I can see where you can get some bad information though.  Like if you dont have the correct depth offset reading for you unit and big waves.  But they told me that they have correction programs for the waves.  So all in all i dont think they they will put bad information on a card.  As for what you get for doing this...  I have no idea.  Im hoping that i will be able to update my card anytime i want for the work i put in.  Im gonna call and find out though.  Ill let you guys know.
RH

[George]

I really like the idea of supporting the mapping companies to improve these charts.  Many of us will not get updates on our lakes because they are not popular. 

Lake Eufaula (OK) annually varies at least 10 feet, right now we are 5 feet lower then the pool level.  We have a generating plant when running removes a lot of water depending on how many gates they open.

We have a lot of areas some very large which do not have any detail.  I have found that the shoreline even at pool level is different then the charts.  So sonar charts would help improve the mapping of this lake. 

I look for the day when they combine the GPS with the charts to make automatic changes to charts. 

George

[ITGEEK]

I can understand this being useful to users, for areas which Navionics has
no plans of ever mapping.  At least the users will have something.

I was under the impression that Navionics used very high dollar towfish type equipment,
and super accurate grids to throughly and completely go over a lake.  And, also used historic maps and charts to further enhance their maps.

But, to think that Joe Blow out there, with the cheapest, used,
crappiest equipment he could buy, could be recording and
sending the information in is kind of scary.
Especially if he doesn't know anything about proper
depth offset.

Then the term 'Warning:This map is Not to be used for Navigational purposes'
will really hold true.

I think that Navionics should disclose with their maps, what areas were professionally
mapped, and what areas were mapped by volunteers.

[George]

ITG

I would be surprised if Navionics or any other chart mapping company does much in the way mapping lakes in detail. 

I would guess that most of the information off of government topo charts.  There is lots of public information available. 

There are just too many lakes available for them to gather all of the information they have with out using the information available.

The cost of mapping lakes would be exponentially expensive to send individual teams out to map out each lake and the time it would take.

Using the Sonar project is a way of securing more up to date information on lakes and yes you are right they will have to be cautious on the information they us.  Just think how massive the information system would have to be to keep the lakes up to date. 

If I can help to improve the information on my lake, I want to be involved.

George

[sjefsrafsern]

I think this is great. this way we might be able to get some maps of lakes in norway. our lakes are usually to small and doesent have enough "traffic" for the mapping companies to bother making a map.

[sharky12]

Paul from Navionics here. I'll try to address each question, there are lots:
Govermnet charts: not the most accurate and in many cases are very old. these are typically used as the general maps or used as an embedded product. Some of the detail isnt as new as it should be. Navionics has updated these the best we can with our freshest data program but mapping (George, great reply by the way). The one comment made is that yes, some mapping companies have interpolated these maps the best they can. To try and do all these lakes with a handful of boats would take YEARS. Navionics is 27 years old and still we dont have them all from personal soundings. We get request daily on "Can you map my lake?". To do a lake obviously there has to be a demand for that lake which gets it priority. for example one would not map a small public lake over say Gunterville. the SonarChart program allows users to map lakes and share that data today rather than wait for us to map it. Even currently surveyed lakes could be 3-5 years old and a new map could imporve what is there now.

More detail on SonarCharts:
- this is a seperate layer on the charts under the "fish n chip" selection. It will not overwrite what data we have collected ourselves. this will be a seperate chart layer to build upon that data. This answers the question below of "disclosing" which maps we did and which are Community SonarCharts".
- SonarCharts never degrades. it only improves. You wont have some guy run a tight grid because he really wants his lake mapped well and then three days later a small boat runs around in a lazy S. SonarCharts will always keep the better data. at some point a lake can no longer be improved and then it stays as is unless there is some major change than a new Sonar log will correct that for the most up to date info.
- Saltwater is a little different. that changes all the time based on tides and currents. We actually calculate the depth based on the time you were there and what the tide was doing then to calculate the variance in depth on tide changes. With sand bars and botto changing all the time, SonarCharts is the only method to keep a chart super accurate and timely. NOAA isnt going to send a fleet of boats to sound every day
- Tranducer: when you upload your sonar logs to Navionics, you can change your transducer offset at that time. it gives you the option of doing so to give the best possible detail
- in relation to modern or old crappy sounders, all sounders can record the exact depth and GPS location. So the retail price point of that unit wont matter. what matters would be how well it holds bottom at the highest rate of speed to get the most data quickly. i also refer to above on data never downgrading.
- This is a free feature when you buy a chart. the charts needed currently are Hot Maps Platinum, Platinum Plus and a new chart launching very shortly to help those users that cant run a platinum to get SonarCharts. After a year, yes, you will need to renew Freshest Data to update your charts but at a reduced price of $99. Then you get another full year of daily updates and SonarCharts. Discount is given so you dont have to buy a new chart every year like the old days when new data came out once a year.
- Community based is obviously a great way to go. Get more coverage quickly and in large amounts from 1000 boats than just one. also get more recent today, as new as yesterday based on that. It doesnt take waypoints, brush piles, rock piles or any "private" data, just gives one foot contours out to 80' and three foot after that.

So far the feature has been well recieved and many are anxious to get started. kind of exciting to map your own lake and also see lots of other lakes and changes in a 24 hour time differencial. Hope this answered some of the questions?

[Jim Jack]

Great info Paul. I PM'd you my info on FS forum.

[George]

sharky12

Thank you very much for the information.  I expect a lot of us will get involved to improve our favorite lakes, I for one expect to spend a lot of time working on my lake.

The question!  Is that Lake Eufaula in Oklahoma depth is constantly varying up and down to a range of 10 feet plus.  How will Navionics apply the information to the changing depths, is this a problem?

George

[Rough House]

The only problem is that humminbird units are not able to view the community layer, at least last year they weren't. I dont know know if anything has change but on navionics website it states the units able to view the community layer and humminbird isnt on the list. http://www.navionics.com/en/save-50-chart-update  I guess Its not part of humminbird software.  YET HOPEFULLY!!!!  Unless this "SonarCharts" is completely different or brand new??? If im wrong or anyone has any information on this please reply.

[TroyBoy30]

Ill stick with lakemaster. I'm not doing the scanning for them

[sharky12]

Rough house: Good follow up. The Community Edits are not on Humminbird only on Lowrance, Simard, and Raymarine. These are additonal points of interest added by the Navionics community to share local data. it can be seen on the iPhone/iPad app as well. The SonarCharts is a "Community Layer" but not in the same aspect. It is viewed on a sub layer called fish n chip. Currently fish n chip can be viewed on all plotters from 500 series up. I am also told there is possibility it can be viewed on the 300 series as well which would be AWESOME for kayak guys. So short story long, you are right on Community Edits, but this is a different deal. You just have to select Fish N Chip and it will appear. Currently that works right now in saltwater where it pulls up one foot - 3 foot contours for better fishing detail.

George: No, that wont be a problem. The only part that could be a bit confusing is that if it drops lets day 10', it may only alter that area of the lake you sounded if it is a small area. If you and others sounded a much larger area, then potentially the entire lake will then adjust to that. Kind of have to use imagination for this a little. You'll see.

Troy: Totally optional. Just wont have the latest details or as many lakes. Many people are excited about this. New and updated data is always cool. if you dont want to particpate, totally your call. Appreciate your decision.

[Rough House]

ok. I plugged in my card today to update it and it says that the SonarCharts isnt available in my area yet.  I have the Hotmaps Platinum east card.  Any idea when it will be availabe for me to download the SonarCharts function.

[sharky12]

Hi Rough House: I love your eagerness!!! Still hasnt fully launched yet. it'll launch in about a month in Florida and then expand from there. For PA, looking at Feb or March. So it'll be ready come Spring. sorry,should have mentioned.

[Rough House]

excellent...  its gonna be awesome to have my native waters in good detail.  The navionics is a little lackluster in my area and it doesnt show alot of detail.  thanks for the info.

[Highplains Fisher]

I think this is a great way to improve our charts. However, what about lakes that aren't currently offered by Navionics. Neither of the two lakes that I spend 90% of my time on are available on the chips. I would love to get them on my Humminbird and am willing to spend the time to do it. But if the lakes aren't already available will Navionics create a map based on the logs that I provide?

[D S]

will this option be available for saskatchewan waterways?
Is tobin lake listed?
I have most of my local water  mapped already with dr depth but would like to display in a better format than shades of green...
comments??

[G4bama]

Navionics for Android phones $10.95(US Lakes) Navionics Premium with Hotspots for Humminbird $149.95(Southern)
They are the same...   Before I bought my 898 I would use the app on my phone in conjunction with my depthfinder to mark area's of interest. It worked well but I do like having the SI look now. A big price difference depending on your application of the product but they a re both good products.
My point is to say that Navionics does a good job at making their products. I am all for comsumer involvement if they can enhance the finished product.