Author Topic: 898SI loosing depth reading once on plane.  (Read 28749 times)

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Offline BassNBob

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898SI loosing depth reading once on plane.
« on: January 11, 2012, 11:09:24 PM »
Here is the location on my bass tracker.  I hope it turns out,
« Last Edit: January 11, 2012, 11:56:17 PM by BassNBob »


Offline sonar2000

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Re: 898SI loosing depth reading once on plane.
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2012, 09:19:13 AM »
for the HDSI transducers this is an on going issue. Due in part to the type of transducer and the susceptibility to turbulence in moving water (speed)
Most have opted to use  thru the hull for on speed display...
For more information search this forum using the search tab. Vary your search entry.
Chuck
« Last Edit: January 12, 2012, 09:22:39 AM by sonar2000 »

Offline Humminbird_Greg

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Re: 898SI loosing depth reading once on plane.
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2012, 03:58:55 PM »
You can try lowering that transducer down some more and even lowering the back end of the transducer so that it has a slight downwards angle.  Other than that you would have to look at other options like moving that transducer or installing a second transducer.

Greg Walters at Humminbird
gwalters@johnsonoutdoors.com

Offline sonar2000

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Re: 898SI loosing depth reading once on plane.
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2012, 05:48:35 PM »
From previous posts on the forum you might well consider adding a second transducer. These thing are so sensitive to water movement and air bubbles. Trolling is fine, especially if you raise the motor tilt.
For on plane usage I would suggest a thru the hull configuration.
Be sure to "search" the forum on ideas about a thru the hull second transducer.
Chuck

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Re: 898SI loosing depth reading once on plane.
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2012, 10:17:40 AM »
BassNBob,
Is this a fiberglass or aluminum Bass Tracker?  It looks to me like a (very clean) aluminum hull in the photos. If this is the case than Humminbird does not make an inside-the-hull transducer for aluminum boats.  There is a company that does though:
Radarsonics makes the AlumaDucer, though I have read mixed reviews about its use.
http://www.radarsonics.com/AlumaDucer.htm

Greg Walters at Humminbird
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Offline sonar2000

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Re: 898SI loosing depth reading once on plane.
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2012, 11:24:13 AM »
We have used the XFM 9 20 for some alumn/plastic/fiber boats.  Of course the sonar is limited...
Chuck

Offline BassNBob

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Re: 898SI loosing depth reading once on plane.
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2012, 12:07:38 PM »
Is Humminbird trying to solve this problem? They sure are hidding it so the fishermen can spend the money for one.  What is the latest update for the software or will that even help.  Why do I have to spend extra money to make this thing work.  Do the pro's like this?

Yes this is an alum. Bass Tracker 2011 model 175 TF. bought at the end of June last year.  Is this still under warranty?

Offline sonar2000

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Re: 898SI loosing depth reading once on plane.
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2012, 12:17:48 PM »
Not sure I can answer the marketing or sales thoughts on type or availability.
The biggest issue come from the HDSI large transducer and the sensitivity of water vs air coupled with placement.
I would hate to think that a product is built with issues that would cause a person to have to invest in the next step with additional equipment.
I dont know of the testing done with the devices to even determine the functionality or failures. I would also think that some thought has to go toward reliability so testing is important.
Trolling speed vs plane speed is a concern with the bigfoot (HDSI) transducer.
However for side imaging I would suspect that slow speed are the normal.
Faster speed is usually a downward look at depth and bottom changes so a different transducer might be the right way to go.,

Interesting comment you make..

Chuck

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Re: 898SI loosing depth reading once on plane.
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2012, 12:43:25 PM »
You have to look at this from a mechanical standpoint.
Depending on what boat and motor you have, the transducer may not
even be in the water when you're on plane.
The prop may be the only thing touching the water.
You can't expect it to work under those conditions.

The Pros probably rely more so on the depths of their mapping
cards with gps while on plane.

Offline Humminbird_Greg

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Re: 898SI loosing depth reading once on plane.
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2012, 12:58:58 PM »
Is Humminbird trying to solve this problem? They sure are hidding it so the fishermen can spend the money for one.  What is the latest update for the software or will that even help.  Why do I have to spend extra money to make this thing work.  Do the pro's like this?

Yes this is an alum. Bass Tracker 2011 model 175 TF. bought at the end of June last year.  Is this still under warranty?

BassNBob,
The problem is that the design of some boats does not allow a single transducer to be used for both unblocked Si sonar and good high-speed depth readings.  Humminbird does not build boats so all we can do is try and design our transducers so that they will perform better on most boats.  The shape and size of the HDSi transducer is dictated more by what is inside of it versus how it will work on a particular boat or boat type.

Aluminum boat hulls are notoriously hard to get a high-speed depth reading on due to the amount of air bubbles that flow off of the hull.  You have to be able to get the transducer mounted so that it is always in a clean (air bubble free) stream of water while also not causing a problem with the water flow through the propeller, to the cooling water intake or where the transducer will be damaged while loading the boat on a trailer.  Due to the lighter weight of aluminum (and other boats) how the boat is set up, loaded and run can also affect whether you can get a high-speed depth reading on them or not.  As an example: I ran a TX17DC for Humminbird for many years.  We did not try and install the transducers for high-speed use – mainly because we could have up to six transducers on the transom at one time – but I was able to get a depth reading at full speed (45mph) with only me in the boat and no one or nothing else and with about ¼ tank of gas as long as the lake was glass smooth or had a light chop on it.  Anything else and I could not get a high-speed depth reading.

In my opinion, your options are to try lowering the transducer so that it will be in cleaner water, lowering the back end of the transducer to help shed those air bubbles around (as opposed to under) the transducer, moving the HDSi transducer to another location (I don’t see a better location on your boat) or installing a second transducer just for high-speed depth readings.

Most of the Pro’s are running different boats than you are.  They also typically have their HDSi transducers installed higher up on the transom so that the HDSi transducer is protected but will work for Si sonar and they have a second inside-the-hull transducer installed for the best possible high-speed depth readings.

If you bought the boat last June and it came with the 898c Si unit than I would expect that the 898c Si unit is under warranty.  Check with the folks you bought it from to be sure.

Greg Walters at Humminbird
gwalters@johnsonoutdoors.com

Offline BassNBob

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Re: 898SI loosing depth reading once on plane.
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2012, 01:33:06 PM »
Greg,
I bought the boat at a BPS and it came with a small Lowrance D/F.  I purchased the brand new 898 SI and had the people at BPS install it for me.

Also I have a 60HP Mercury and my max speed is about 39MPH but I loose the depth reading around 12MPH.

Is there still a warranty in effect? 

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Re: 898SI loosing depth reading once on plane.
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2012, 03:05:57 PM »
Yes if you bought the 898c Si unit back in June of 2011.
In fact if you register your unit with the Humminbird Select Program you will get the warranty extended to 2 years:
http://www.humminbirdselect.com/

What do the BPS folks say about your 898 unit not getting high-speed depth readings?

Greg Walters at Humminbird
gwalters@johnsonoutdoors.com

Offline BassNBob

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Re: 898SI loosing depth reading once on plane.
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2012, 01:19:07 PM »
Greg,
What is Humminbird's definition of high speed? It disappears around 12-15 MPH.

Offline Humminbird_Greg

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Re: 898SI loosing depth reading once on plane.
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2012, 02:04:49 PM »
I don’t think that we have an official definition.  Mine would be at the speed that the boat starts a bow up attitude and/or attempts to get “up on plane”.  I could also define it as the speed that the hull starts to generate air bubbles.  That can be at the 12 – 15 MPH speed for your boat.  So much of this gets back to the design of the boat and how it is set up (motor, prop, loading).
Greg Walters at Humminbird
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Offline BassNBob

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Re: 898SI loosing depth reading once on plane.
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2012, 01:17:53 PM »
Greg,
What would you suggest that I purchase as for as a high speed T/D, Cables, etc. so I can have the best of both worlds, SI and depth on plane.  Also, from the photos I,ve given what would be the best location of the new tranducer.  If you could give me part numbers it would be very helpful.  Thanks

Offline LocDown

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Re: 898SI loosing depth reading once on plane.
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2012, 06:01:12 PM »
SI on plane? I wonder how the SI would like with chart speed 10 but you're doing like 40+ mph.

Offline sonar2000

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Re: 898SI loosing depth reading once on plane.
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2012, 06:58:55 PM »
Probably not much as the HDSI just does not like speeds. Most will not function at above trolling. Some will,,,,maybe you will be lucky....
Chuck

Offline ITGEEK

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Re: 898SI loosing depth reading once on plane.
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2012, 07:27:13 PM »
I've heard that SI will not work at speeds above 10mph.
The technology does not exist yet for what you want to do.

Offline Perch Jerker

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Re: 898SI loosing depth reading once on plane.
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2012, 09:58:02 PM »
BassNBob,I have a 17 ft aluminum boat and the only time I loose depth is in a hard turn. Evidently the boat generates air bubbles under these conditions.From looking at your pictures I concur with Greg completely, just lower the back end of the transducer one click and if that does not work drop the transducer a 1/4 inch. Good Luck.

Offline Bob B

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Re: 898SI loosing depth reading once on plane.
« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2012, 02:35:08 PM »
If you have the transducer in location that doesn't have turbulence in the water stream you can get readings at high speed.

It is not a limitation of the transducer that casues most people to not get a reading at higher speed, it is the choice of location.
Most bass boat transducer mounts are higher up where the transducer is more protected at higher speed, but will not have smooth water flow....The reading at high speed is sacrificed for protection of the transducer. To get the a good 2D reading at high speed a 2nd transducer is usually mounted for shoot thru hull.
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Re: 898SI loosing depth reading once on plane.
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2012, 06:54:23 PM »
I recently bought a Alumacraft 185 Dominator. At first it would read only to 10 mph but, after adjusting it only an 1/8th of an inch lower it works up to about 40 mph. keep adjusting is my advice--hopefully you find the sweet spot.


Offline BassNBob

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Re: 898SI loosing depth reading once on plane.
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2012, 08:11:59 AM »
Thanks for all the responses.  Before I go out the next time I will adjust the tranducer down an eight of an inch and also tilt it more downward.  I may end up purchasing a new DI tranducer and adding it to the transom. so I can see a depth reading.

Offline coriobay

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Re: 898SI loosing depth reading once on plane.
« Reply #22 on: February 27, 2012, 10:57:42 PM »
Hi
I have an aluminium boat(4.8 quintrex freedom sport) Depth at speed is very dependant on how far you put the ducer in the water, i have mine mounted on a slide, When positioned corectly, deeper the better,slightly lower than the hull, i can see the bootom trace in Si,di and 2d at 30MPH, the only drawback is the amount of spray or rooster tail the ducer generates, i intend on making a shroud over the ducer to divert the water away from the motor.
I am talking about shallow water to maintain the reading, 2-30 feet.

Offline G4bama

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Re: 898SI loosing depth reading once on plane.
« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2013, 10:22:56 PM »
Did you resolve this issue? If so, how?

Offline coriobay

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Re: 898SI loosing depth reading once on plane.
« Reply #24 on: February 25, 2013, 10:35:43 PM »
Issue is fixed, i will post some pics when i can

Offline coriobay

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Re: 898SI loosing depth reading once on plane.
« Reply #25 on: March 07, 2013, 08:43:17 PM »
Please see attached pic of my setup, the height of the ducer is very important for high speed running, the foil prevents the rooster tail hitting the motor

Offline Submaster

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Re: 898SI loosing depth reading once on plane.
« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2013, 04:45:15 PM »
Just joined and saw this post.  I've always had problems with speed while on plane, never works. But, I've decided I no longer care...GPS provides me with a chart with water depth.  If you run over a shallow spot and run your boat aground, your depth reading from your transducer would not have done you any good anyhow. You'd be high and dry by the time you notice you were in shallow water.  :o
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Offline Speedtroller

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Re: 898SI loosing depth reading once on plane.
« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2013, 10:29:22 AM »
I have a 2003 tracker pt185. i had the same problem as you when i installed my 798ci si . if you lower your transducer a 1/8 to a 1/4 inch you will get on plane readings. only problem is you leave it vulnerable to being hit by debri in the water. I would not suggest tilting your transducer down. It will affect the quality of the images you get on your unit. Trackers already sit high in the front. And your transducer needs to be tilted up in the back to make it level in the water at idle and trolling speeds.i would put you old unit back on and use that for high speed depth readings or use a second transducer and the y cable for 2d and depth when on plane. Also make sure your transducer is not in line with one of the ribs that run down the bottom of the hull they creat lots of air bubbles center it in between them. Hope this helps you out.
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Re: 898SI loosing depth reading once on plane.
« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2013, 01:43:38 PM »
A possible option for some of you that do not want to put your transducer lower in the water would be to mount it on some sort of device (like a thicker block of the transducer mounting plate material) that will place the transducer back farther away from the hull.  This may get it into an area where there are no air bubbles in the water.  I have seen some success with this but it may also place the Si sonar where it will hit your motors lower unit.

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Offline Patty

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Re: 898SI loosing depth reading once on plane.
« Reply #29 on: April 07, 2013, 12:03:51 PM »
Greg, you mean like a jackplate for the transducer, Same principal anyway... On my Javelin I found that once I was above 15mph or so the transducer was completely out of the water therefore no readings at all just a blank screen... Moved on to a newer Lund boat now and with some tweaking I get "readings" from SI at speeds upwards of 40MPH... Mostly spikes on the SI readout that tell me there was a major depth change, but a reading none the less... Humminbird does make a high speed transducer said to be good for speeds up to 70mph, so for accurate depth readings this would be the way to go, not detailed but a depth reading...

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Re: 898SI loosing depth reading once on plane.
« Reply #30 on: April 08, 2013, 11:03:20 AM »
Like a jackplate for the transducer but only to move it farther backwards away from the transom (not upwards).

Any transducer will work at 70 mph as long as you can keep it in contact with air bubble free water.
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Offline wolfs4evr

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Re: 898SI loosing depth reading once on plane.
« Reply #31 on: April 08, 2013, 05:34:49 PM »
I didn't see it mentioned.  Try playing with your suface clutter setting.  I have lost bottom before in my boat at speed then adjusted the clutter setting and got bottom back.  Something else to try anyways.


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