Author Topic: Need Help with 998c  (Read 9724 times)

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Offline kabrams001

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Need Help with 998c
« on: February 23, 2014, 03:37:10 PM »
Is there something wrong with this unit or am I doing something wrong? ila_rendered
« Last Edit: February 23, 2014, 04:18:24 PM by kabrams001 »


Offline castle rock clown

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Re: Need Help with 998c
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2014, 09:01:32 PM »
I am not good at anomalies with the digital images, but the 2D image looks like interference either from another sonar, or electrical interference. Some hookups are suseptable to interference from trolling motors, other sonar or transducers, main motor alternators even radios. Turn off all other electronics including trolling motors and have the one fishfinder operate off one transducer. I can see from your screenshots you are under some sort of propulsion. Good luck.

Offline rnvinc

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Re: Need Help with 998c
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2014, 12:53:16 AM »
Looks like cross talk interference to me also....

You can try turning up the "Noise Filter" under the Sonar tab...

Or, as castle mentioned, turn off any other sonar running at the same time...

Rickie

Offline kabrams001

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Re: Need Help with 998c
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2014, 01:28:58 AM »
castle rock clown, Thanks for the advice, I am at my wits end, the side imaging shots were taken under way by the Merc. 250 pro xs, the down imaging shots were taken a drift with everything turned off. I do have a 958c on the tm but it was turned off and out of the water. There are two transducers hooked to the 998c, one on the transom and one glued it the hull hooked together with a Y cable. This is a factory install, they were part of the package in the boat when I bought it, in fact part of the reason for buying the boat. 

Thanks for the input Rickie, I have turned the "Noise Filter" up to 3. Is there any other adjustment that I may be missing?

Offline rnvinc

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Re: Need Help with 998c
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2014, 01:38:04 AM »
Where there any other electrical devices running at the time...livewell aerators, bilge pumps, VHF radios...??

You can try bypassing the AS SIDB Y cable and plug the HDSI xducer directly into the unit...does the lines to away now...??

Then set the "Transducer Select" menu to "Dual Beam" and plug the 2d thru hull xducer directly into the unit...does the lines go away now...??

This may help determine if the AS SIDB Y cable is faulty...(or 1 of the xducers)...

If the 958c is NOT a DI unit...you can even use the 958 xducer for testing...(with the SI unit "Transducer Select" menu set to "Dual Beam)...this may help determine if the head unit is having some kind of issue....

Rickie
« Last Edit: February 24, 2014, 01:42:17 AM by rnvinc »

Offline kabrams001

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Re: Need Help with 998c
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2014, 02:50:22 AM »
Nothing else was running when I took the pictures, I have tried turning the pumps on and off, it doesn't make any difference.
the 958c is not a DI and has lockup problems that haven't been straightened out yet either, that is a hole new story. If the weather permits tomorrow I mite try your idea with the Y cable.  Thanks for the idea, I've been looking for things I could be doing wrong or just haven't learned yet. Sense they are new I am hard pressed to blame it on the equipment and more on me just missing something simple...

Offline Humminbird_Greg

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Re: Need Help with 998c
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2014, 03:39:21 PM »
While you are testing each transducer and the AS-Si-DB-y cable; see if the interference is in the Si sonar when you are drifting with the motors and everything off.  This may be some reflected sonar from the jackplate while the 2D sonar interference may be something else.

Test your 958c on the two 998 transducer too while you are at it.
Greg Walters at Humminbird
gwalters@johnsonoutdoors.com

Offline kabrams001

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Re: Need Help with 998c
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2014, 08:03:17 PM »
Hi Greg, thanks for you input, I didn't have a chance to get to this today but have it planed for tomorrow, I will have to open up both condoles to get to them, I didn't have that mush time before it got dark today, I will post my results tomorrow...Thanks again.. 

Offline kabrams001

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Re: Need Help with 998c
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2014, 03:21:59 AM »
I took to heart what Greg said about reflection off the jackplate and moved the si ducer down and bolted it in the hole you can see in the picture, it is the hole where you would normally adjust the angle, effectively lowering it maybe 1.75", that's just a guess I didn't measure it. At first I thought we may be on to something the DI had cleared up a lot still didn't show much but clear up a lot of the checker board, when I got to 35'-40' foot of water it went into a spasm telling me it was 1000-1400', screen looked like a snow storm, I switched to DI, Sonar, same thing turned off the motor and the screen went almost clear (pic 1 showing 1016'), I shut the unit down and restarted it and came back the some thing, I pulled up the lower range up to 4' and snapped pic #2(showing 415') then lowered it back till it picked up the bottom at about 35' dropped it down to 41' to show the bottom while the read out says 479 pic #3, turned the unit off and unplugged the inside ducer (the one glued in the hull) pic#4, turned it off again and  then I pulled the Y cable and plugged the SI ducer straight in the unit pic #5 Restarted the unit and it came back to 35', started the motor to go to SI and got the interference you can see in pic #6, on the right of it you can see where I turned the motor off. The SI showed little to nothing more than a clear bottom, now that I think about it, it doesn't when it gets to 30+' deep, so I went to an area where I know there are trees, stumps, sunken logs, lots of stuff, and tried the sonar, tried to get views of the some stuff for a fair comparison  the 7th pic is the ducer in the hull, #8 is SI ducer, #9 is the 958c on the in hull ducer , I thought I took a pic with the 958 hooked to the SI ducer but can not come up with it, but it looked the same as the in hull. I thought that I got away from the interference with the 958 until I got in 20+ feet of water pic #10, but was able to filter it out pic #11. Pics #12 and 13 are DI and a DI/SI of the same area with the SI ducer plugged straight into the 998. I look forward to hearing your thoughts

Offline Humminbird_Greg

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Re: Need Help with 998c
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2014, 02:31:38 PM »
If I understood all of this correctly (guys check me to see if I’m right!):
- It sounds like you have a bad AS-Si-DB-Y cable because your 2D sonar looked better on either unit with either transducer without it.
- You may have a problem with the HDSi transducer producing that cloudy area that I thought was coming from the jackplate.  Only way to know for sure would be to see if it was there while you were drifting (motor off) and if it is try putting it on a pole to lower it down beyond the boat to see if it is still there as well.
- It may also have a problem with motor interference as the Si/Di data clears up some when you turn the motor off plus you had interference in the 2D data when you tested the 958 unit.
Greg Walters at Humminbird
gwalters@johnsonoutdoors.com

Offline kabrams001

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Re: Need Help with 998c
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2014, 03:57:17 AM »
Hi Greg, I appreciate with your analysis, pics 12 and 13 were taken using the TR (36 volt motorguide) for propulsion, the Merc was off. Why does the motor noise not show up on the 958 hooked to the 998 transducers until it gets to 19-20 feet deep?

Offline Humminbird_Greg

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Re: Need Help with 998c
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2014, 11:22:52 AM »
It could have something to do with one of the automatic noise filters.  The TVG curve used as well as the surface clutter algorithm would be weaker the deeper you go as well.
Greg Walters at Humminbird
gwalters@johnsonoutdoors.com

Offline kabrams001

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Re: Need Help with 998c
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2014, 01:32:46 PM »
Do you have any suggestions to address the motor noise (interference) that I mite be able to do? I was thinking of checking the way the transducer cables are run, would it be correct to look at the transducers and cables as being similar to the antennas and coax on a two way radio? I haven't cut a cable on a transducer or seen one that was cut everything I read has always said "DO NOT CUT" so I haven't,  are they made in a similar fashion, and if they do get cut or broken does that just render that transducer junk?   

Offline Humminbird_Greg

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Re: Need Help with 998c
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2014, 10:15:23 AM »
The transducer cables have an internal shielding (the Si transducers also have internal shields for pairs of wires).  If the outer shielding is broken/cut it could be an entryway for electrical interference but the transducer may still work otherwise.
I would contact the Humminbird Customer Resource folks about this because they have the latest information on reducing/eliminating electrical interference – but keeping the wires going to/from your unit separated from other boat wires is always a good thing when it comes to electrical interference.
Greg Walters at Humminbird
gwalters@johnsonoutdoors.com

Offline kabrams001

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Re: Need Help with 998c
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2014, 03:19:45 PM »
First I want to thank you for your help, at this point I think my problems are more than me just not pushing the right buttons. I will let you know how this turns out.. it may take a few days, weather around here has gotten nasty...Thanks Again


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