Humminbird Side Imaging Forums

General => General Discussion => Topic started by: riverlogger on January 20, 2014, 11:55:52 AM

Title: Different use for scanning
Post by: riverlogger on January 20, 2014, 11:55:52 AM: Hi
As the name states, I was a riverlogger, looking for and recovering sunken deadhead logs in black water. All the searches turn up "logs" as Data. ::)

OK, I don't have a side scan of any kind, and, can't afford a normal side scan sonar machine. These fish finder machines have come a long way since I used to play with them.

For many reasons, I have very limited funding, what with needing to re-equip my needs, boat, etc. I could start out with a $500.00 machine, IF it would do the job. Later on, I could upgrade to something better. Right now, I need to do some searching, to see if there are logs and where I need to look. Diving up to 50 feet deep, in coffee colored water, then, crawling around on the bottom, feeling for logs, is not the way I want to get back into this.

The river currents will cover the logs, but, on occasion, the logs will appear as lumps on a normal side scan, like a Wesmar ,etc. All the images I see from fish finders are trees. We can't take those, just the precut "deadheads".

Is it possible to use a $500.00 machine to locate scattered logs just laying on the bottom, for the initial survey, so I can decide to get in the logging again, or not ??

Any opinions good or bad, are acceptable. Thanks for letting me post this here. I really need some expert advice.
Title: Re: Different use for scanning
Post by: Gattlin on January 20, 2014, 11:57:39 PM: I believe the cost of the transducer will be the downfall of $500. Sk
Title: Re: Different use for scanning
Post by: Drifter on January 21, 2014, 05:47:03 AM: Your entry price range might get you some used equipment from someone that's looking to upgrade. Here are a couple of samples to give you a better idea of what you should be able to "pick up" ...

Waccasassa River ~ Gulf Hammock, FL (freshwater)
(click image to enlarge ..).
(http://limbatus.net/linked/Fern-A-si-image@300ppi.jpg) (http://limbatus.net/linked/Fern-A-si-image@1254ppi.jpg)

Fishing pier towfish runs ~ Cedar Key, FL (saltwater)
(click image to view the webpage ...
(http://limbatus.net/info/CKPTF-20110322/vptm.gif) (http://limbatus.net/info/CKPTF-20110322/rpttm.html)

You will probably want to make sonar recordings and review them from a computer to see more detail (as was done in the examples above). They showed them using one along the Suwannee on the Discovery Channel ...

http://www.history.com/shows/ax-men/videos/sleepless-on-the-suwannee#sleepless-on-the-suwannee (http://www.history.com/shows/ax-men/videos/sleepless-on-the-suwannee#sleepless-on-the-suwannee)
Title: Re: Different use for scanning
Post by: riverlogger on January 21, 2014, 07:43:37 AM: Thanks for the responses, guys.
Maybe I should have left the price out,but,I have located a NEW in the box Humminbird 597, complete for $500.00. Guy is holding it for me for a few more days. Friend of a friend deal.

I don't want to buy something, that I have to look around for "extras". I was hoping to find something that I could connect directly to a laptop, so I could view as I idled along.

I know it will take some scrutinizing of the data, but, will this machine be a good starter for me. I have been wearing out the internet looking at videos, but, anyone talking on the videos is more concerned with fish structure. I was hoping someone would "mention" look, there is a covered log showing as a bump in the sand.

I'm just trying to avoid wasting my money, as someone that wants to do a local fish tournament, that has to buy a $10,000.00 boat, and a trailer, then all the tackle, then a fish finder, just to see if the local lake is worth fishing in.

I don't get those shows down here, and, online is terrible, out where I live, on the farm. I will try to find them, online, and see what I can glean from them.

A couple more responses would be great. Thanks
Title: Re: Different use for scanning
Post by: Gattlin on January 21, 2014, 12:12:13 PM: Niice :)
Title: Re: Different use for scanning
Post by: Cookiecutter2 on January 21, 2014, 12:21:51 PM: Check out West Marine stores...I have seen the 798 SI units on sale there $699.00 and I asked if that was the best they could do and they said they would take 10% off of that. So for a little more than what you wanted...for 630.00 you can get a nice Side imaging unit.
I'm getting one myself.
Good Luck
John
Title: Re: Different use for scanning
Post by: Drifter on January 21, 2014, 12:48:41 PM: One cent worth of opinion = you will probably want an "SI" unit. I think the 597 only does "DI" (==> Amazon Link (http://www.amazon.com/Humminbird-408120-1-Fishfinder-597ci-Combo/dp/B0042T4T84) <==). I could demo an older portable unit (798ci SI or 997c SI head unit with a XHS-9-HDSI-180T transducer) if you ever get up around the Gainesville. FL area.
Title: Re: Different use for scanning
Post by: riverlogger on January 21, 2014, 01:10:45 PM: Thanks again, guys.

Drifter, Gainesville is a definite possibility. I started out selling logs to Goodwin, right off the southern end of Paines Prairie.

You wouldn't by chance, know of any log buyers up that way, would you? It's been 10 years since I had to give up logging underwater. Thanks for the invite. Could be around the end of Feb before I get things sorted. Kinda puts the squeeze on that 597, but, not a LOT of money difference, IF I get better results.

Edit: Is the main difference between the 798ci SI and the 997ci SI the size of the screen? Might it be possible to rig up a Fresnel lens to see a larger image, especially if I built a nice dark box to slip over the whole head ? I really need a large viewing screen for these old eyes.

Sorry for all these questions, but, I have some experienced people on here, so, I need all the input I can get.

REALLY appreciate all the advice, guys.
Title: Re: Different use for scanning
Post by: sonar2000 on January 21, 2014, 04:39:19 PM: Logger, If you are planning on a business I would STRONGLY suggest you find a user that can come to your river and make some scans to see what might and might not work. And of course before you make a decision to buy anything. 50 feet of depth and only wanting the bottom is a bit stressful for most cheap sonars. Fish finding and structure scanning sonar does not do a whole lot for bottom pictures. Mostly it will be some variance in color and that takes some time to learn wood over sand, over hard/soft bottom and mud. Keep in mind that you are wanting to start a business and location of submerged deadheads is your only interest. Hopefully someone near you can bring some sonar to test
your location.
Chuck
Title: Re: Different use for scanning
Post by: rnvinc on January 21, 2014, 06:13:39 PM: I think only the 800, 900, 1100 series units have a "video out" port...

This is RCA video/audio "out"....to connect to any monitor that has RCA video "in"...

Most laptops do not have "video in"....a video capture card must be installed in the laptop to capture and view from an external video source...

Rickie
Title: Re: Different use for scanning
Post by: riverlogger on January 21, 2014, 07:30:27 PM: Sonar-Chuck

Appreciate the input. Maybe I should lay out what I am planning to try. I did the logging for 4 years, until circumstances beyond my control, caused me to quit and sell the equipment. I didn't use any sonar back then. Asked around, being a semi retired treasure hunter, if anyone with a side scan would be interested in doing some work. 1 guy offered at $400.00 per hour, + expenses. No way.

Much of the rivers are less than 20', except in the sharp bends. That's where the 50+' would be.

I DO know where some logs are, and another spot where they SHOULD be, to get me started. I need to get or build a boat, and a trailer.I have dive gear, IF it still fits. ::)

After watching 50 or so videos, I THINK I can make out some logs here and there, on the videos. IF I bought a reasonably priced fish finder, it would MAYBE allow me to be sure of what I THINK I know. It's been 10 years, so, someone else might have gotten those logs. Then, I could always sell a decent Fish Finder, and recover SOME of the cost.
Once I get some logs landed, Then I have some cash to expand the operation. As you suggested, maybe find someone with a machine. I have found NEW Side Scan Machines, not fish finders, for $4500.00 and up.That would be the ticket. One company even suggested a Bottom sounder, not a side scan.

Any state that allows log recovery, can always stop allowing it. Politicians always go with the MONEY people, like the ENVIRO nuts.

I'm getting pretty old to do this for many more years, and, pretty much forget about anyone wanting to do the diving in this black water.

Therefore, I'm really asking if what I want to do, is possible. IF I can spot a possible log, I can throw a weighted buoy at it, and then, have a place to star circling from.

I used to drag a 3 pronged hook to try to snag onto some weight, but, the boat won't cooperate in staying put with a couple knot current or more. ::) ;D

Rickie, thanks for that info.
Title: Re: Different use for scanning
Post by: Drifter on January 22, 2014, 06:50:23 AM: Quote from: riverlogger on January 21, 2014, 01:10:45 PM
I started out selling logs to Goodwin, right off the southern end of Paines Prairie.

It looks like Goodwin's is still in the business of supplying reclaimed wood ( Goodwin Company (http://heartpine.com/) ). It might be worth checking in with them.

Quote from: riverlogger on January 21, 2014, 07:30:27 PM
I'm really asking if what I want to do, is possible.

it depends on the equipment you use and how you use it. If done right, then yes - it 'wood' be possible. ;-) Read through the SAR section of the forum for some good search oriented info and get in touch when you get up this way.

Darrell
Title: Re: Different use for scanning
Post by: Rotus623 on January 22, 2014, 02:27:31 PM: I have done a lot of fishing out on the James River. We have seen beautiful shots of logs and trees laying on their sides. The river has a ton of debris in it typically, and the unit still works its wonders. I think that it will save you hours and hours of time by getting one of these units. Honestly, if you are an older fella I think it will be hard to make anything useful out of the small 798 screen. I have an 898 and there are still times where I wish that I went bigger.

Anyways, if you are going log huntin, my vote is that side imaging is essential. It will pay for itself in a few trips.
Title: Re: Different use for scanning
Post by: Dieago on January 22, 2014, 08:45:12 PM: This video show lots and lots of lay down logs on side imaging but hes not using a 500.00 unit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkrX81XCrAM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkrX81XCrAM)
Title: Re: Different use for scanning
Post by: riverlogger on January 22, 2014, 11:01:16 PM: That is a very interesting video. I tried to ask what machine he was using, but, I couldn't get the dialogue box to allow me to write him.

If I could get 2/3 of that quality, I would be satisfied. The logs could be crossing over each other, and sticking up some. They don't all lay flat.

Thanks Dieago.
Title: Re: Different use for scanning
Post by: RGecy on January 22, 2014, 11:09:43 PM: He is using a Humminbird and just converted the format over to YellowFin using the HBSI Converter so it could be played back in the YellowFin software.

Both pieces of software can be found here on the forum in the downloads section.

Robert
Title: Re: Different use for scanning
Post by: riverlogger on January 23, 2014, 11:00:47 AM: I know I ask a lot of questions. I am simply not educated to computer stuff. Everyone that has responded to my questions, have been very helpful.

I want to thank all those and to Mr. RGecy, who has developed this forum. What a great place to learn from.

Harold--riverlogger
Title: Re: Different use for scanning
Post by: sonar2000 on January 23, 2014, 06:05:21 PM: I used to drag a 3 pronged hook to try to snag onto some weight, but, the boat won't cooperate in staying put with a couple knot current or more. ::) ;D

wow. diving in 2 knots would be fun. chuck
Title: Re: Different use for scanning
Post by: riverlogger on January 23, 2014, 06:18:14 PM: It gets better. There is a bridge where a whole raft of logs crashed and sank. My son went down 100' from the bridge, in 30' of water, and actually brushed up against the bridge pylon, right as he touched bottom.

Just for reference, a raft of logs, being towed to the sawmill, could be 10 MILES long. YUP, there were estimated 20+% of all logs cut, that sank either in the rivers leading to the main staging area, or, anywhere along the main river toward the mill.
Title: Re: Different use for scanning
Post by: Dieago on January 23, 2014, 08:02:23 PM: He uses a 997c
Title: Re: Different use for scanning
Post by: riverlogger on January 23, 2014, 08:32:11 PM: Thank You