Author Topic: Side Imaging with no movement?  (Read 22839 times)

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Offline Outek

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Side Imaging with no movement?
« on: November 27, 2009, 12:20:09 PM »
Hi

I have a question to this sideimaging technology.
If i have no movement with boat, is sideimaging still working or do i have to ship around to have a clear view?
Can anyone post a video where i can take a look at how this is working with no movement?

Thanks for your answer


Offline Jolly Roger

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Re: Side Imaging with no movement?
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2009, 04:20:56 PM »
Grüezzi outek,
SI funktioniert nur, wenn Du in Bewegung bist. Die SI Strahlen werden wie ein hauchdünner Fächer nach links und rechts vom Geber ausgestrahlt und die Echos dann wieder empfangen und auf dem Display dargestellt.
Wenn der Geber nicht in Bewegungs ist, wird praktisch immer wieder der gleiche Bereich abgescannt und empfangen, was dann als Streifen auf dem fortlaufenden Display abgebildet wird.

Befindet sich der Geber in Bewegung, wird bei jedem Impuls ein neuer Fächer abgescant und empfangen. Dabrei ist nicht nur die richtige Bootsgeschwindigkeit wichtig, sondern auch die richtige Ablaufgeschwindigkeit des auf dem Display wiedergegebenen Bildes.
Im Idealfall bewegt sich das Boot "parallel" zur Laufgeschwindigkeit des Displays.
Ist die Laufgeschwindigkeit zu hoch, werden die Objekte auf dem Display "gestretched", ist sie zu niedrig, werden sie gestaucht dargestellt.

Ich hab hier was dazu geschrieben: http://forums.sideimagingsoft.com/index.php?topic=242.0


Rickard (http://forums.sideimagingsoft.com/index.php?action=profile;u=250) hat Versuche gemacht, bei denen er eine Seite seines Gebers abgeklebt hat und den Geber durch ein Loch im Eis im Kreis gedreht hat. Beeindruckende Bilder sind dabei rausgekommen. Leider kann ich den Thread nicht mehr finden.

Falls Du weitere Fragen hast: Feuer frei!

Grüsse vom Bodensee
Harry
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Offline Outek

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Re: Side Imaging with no movement?
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2009, 04:29:26 PM »
Hi

Sorry, habe zu spät gesehen, dass du hier geantwortet hast.

Die Frage ist ja, was mache ich wenn ich nicht fahre mit dem Boot.
Bedeutet das, dasss ich im Prinzip das SI ausschalten und auf 2D Modus wechseln kann und so die gleiche Qualität erreiche wie bei einem guten 2D Gerät?

Offline Jolly Roger

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Re: Side Imaging with no movement?
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2009, 06:42:38 PM »
Hallo Outek,
also beim Ankern zum Felchenfischen bringt das SI nicht viel, da Du dann eigentlich nur Striche und Streifen auf dem Display erkennen kannst. Aber Du hast bei den SI Modellen auch die Möglichkeit dann auf traditionelles 2D umzuschalten und da siehst Du dann die Fische als Bögen oder als Symbole.
Mit der TVG oder Switch Fire Funktion werden die Fische dann auch in der richtigen Grösse als Symbol auf dem Display angezeigt. TVG steht für Time Valuable Gain. Das musst Du so verstehen, das ein kleiner Fisch in fünf Meter Tiefe aufgrund der Sonarcharakteristik ohne TVG genauso gross angezeigt werden würde wie ein grosser Fisch in zwanzig Metern Tiefe. Das liegt daran, dass das empfangene Sonarecho vom grossen Fisch die gleiche Energie reflektiert wie der kleine Fisch in kürzerer Entfernung. Das TVG rechnet Dir also die Laufzeit des Echos in Relation zur Energie um und stellt dann das entsprechende Fischsymbol auf dem Display dar.

Ich hoffe, das war jetzt einigermassen verständlich erklärt. Falls nicht, ruf morgen einfach mal an.

Grüsse vom See
Harry
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Offline wizzo86

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Re: Side Imaging with no movement?
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2009, 12:24:02 AM »
something must have happined to the translator feature!!! would love to know what you said,,,, lol
« Last Edit: November 28, 2009, 12:26:00 AM by wizzo86 »

Offline vaiovillage

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Re: Side Imaging with no movement?
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2009, 07:33:26 AM »
Me too :(

Offline Outek

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Re: Side Imaging with no movement?
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2009, 09:25:19 AM »
also beim Ankern zum Felchenfischen bringt das SI nicht viel, da Du dann eigentlich nur Striche und Streifen auf dem Display erkennen kannst.

Aber das Verhalten ist ja bei einem reinen 2D Gerät genau gleich, mit dem SI könnte man aber dem Schwarm der vorbeischwimmt zuschauen und man wüsste noch wo ungefähr er vorbeizieht oder mache ich einen Überlegungsfehler?


Mit der TVG oder Switch Fire Funktion werden die Fische dann auch in der richtigen Grösse als Symbol auf dem Display angezeigt. TVG steht für Time Valuable Gain. Das musst Du so verstehen, das ein kleiner Fisch in fünf Meter Tiefe aufgrund der Sonarcharakteristik ohne TVG genauso gross angezeigt werden würde wie ein grosser Fisch in zwanzig Metern Tiefe.

Auch hier frage ich mich, wie den das die 2D Geräte bisher gemacht haben?
Muss ich das TVG und SwitchFire extra kaufen, bzw. sind das separate Geber die ich noch anschaffen muss?

Wenn ich ein Gerät aus den Staaten kaufe, kann ich dann die Menuführung auch auf das metrische System umschalten, bzw die Sprache auf deutsch wechseln?

Gruss
Daniel

ps. Ich habe heute noch versucht dich zu erreichen, aber wir können die Infos für die Nachwelt auch hier weiterziehen...
« Last Edit: November 28, 2009, 09:26:38 AM by Outek »

Offline keizerh

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Re: Side Imaging with no movement?
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2009, 10:01:45 AM »
I'm glad that I am an International version ;D
When I put myself on WGS84 and Munich Daylight Saving Time I can understand it perfectly

hendrik
« Last Edit: November 28, 2009, 10:04:25 AM by keizerh »

Offline bigkahuna

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Re: Side Imaging with no movement?
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2009, 04:39:00 PM »
[quote author = Outek link = topic = 490.msg2006 # msg2006 date = 1259418319]
If I buy a device from the States, I can then switch the menu navigation on the metric system, or change the language to German?
[/ Quote]

Hi Daniel,
Nur die Europäische Humminbird Ihnen Meter und Deutsch. Sie können nicht konvertieren, ein US-Modell.
regards,
Kevin

Offline Jolly Roger

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Re: Side Imaging with no movement?
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2009, 07:20:42 PM »
Hi Daniel,
TVG ist Bestandteil des 2D Sonars bei den SI Geräten. Da musst Du nichts dazukaufen. Eventuell haben die Konkurenzfirmen auch so was ähnliches, nennen es aber anders.
Das mit dem vorbeiziehenden Felchenschwarm kann ich Dir nicht genau sagen, da ich mein Gerät eigentlich nur zum Wracksuchen benutzt habe. Es müsste aber machbar sein, wenn der Schwarm schnell genug schwimmt und Du die Ablaufgeschwindugkeit vom Display weit genug runter fährst. Aber da fehlen mir wie gesagt die Erfahrungswerte.

Wie Kevin schon richtig gesagt hat, kannst Du die US Versionen nicht auf metrische Einheiten und Deutsche Sprache umstellen.

Mein Empfehlung diesbezüglich: Kauf ein internationales Gerät bei G-Comm in England. Ian hat mit Abstand die besten Preise, liefert schnell und wenn es Probleme gibt mit der Kiste, hat er auch mui pronto ein Ersatzgerät geschickt. Dann hast Du ein Gerät, was in Europa zugelassen ist und metrisch anzeigt und noch Deutsch auf der Latte hat.
Ach so, bevor ich's vergess: Hier die Telephonenummer: +44 (0) 1493 669966 und die Website: www.g-comm.co.uk

Humminbird ist was die SI Technologie anbelangt zur Zeit der einzige Anbieter. Lowrance will mit ihrem Structure Scan gleichziehen, allerdings liegen da noch keine Vergleichswerte vor. Ich glaube, dass Lowrance sich ganz schön strecken muss, um an die SI Geräte ranzukommen. Ausserdem bin ich kein Fan von Erstjahresmodellen. Da stecken meist noch zu viel Kinderkrankheiten drin.

Wenn Du bei Ian oder Anne anrufst, bestell Grüsse von German Harry.

@all: Sorry for writing German, but it's easier for me to explain things to Daniel.

@ Hendrik: What do I have to switch to to understand dutch?

Regards and a nice 1st advent / Harry
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Offline George

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Re: Side Imaging with no movement?
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2009, 07:30:30 PM »
Hey Guys

All of us are interested in this forum and it would be nice if you shared it in English
« Last Edit: November 29, 2009, 04:24:28 PM by George »

Offline Jolly Roger

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Re: Side Imaging with no movement?
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2009, 07:38:05 PM »
Well George,
I just tried to answer a couple of questions Daniel had and since we both speak German, it's easier for me to explain things in German.
He asked initially if SI is working when the boat is not moving.
SI will not work if the boat is stationary, but he can change to traditional 2D sonar views if he wants to see fish as arches or symbols.
He asked, if he can see fishes swimming beside a stationary boat in SI. I don't have enough experience using SI for fishing, but I guess that one can see fishes if they are swimming fast enough through the arrays.

Maybe you or someone else can help out on this question.

Regards / Harry
« Last Edit: November 28, 2009, 07:50:02 PM by Jolly Roger »
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Offline reddog

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Re: Side Imaging with no movement?
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2009, 09:53:17 PM »
What happens if the boat is stationary, but the transducer is not? 

What if you had an ability to "pivot" the transducer in a 360 degree circle?  What kind if image would that give?

I know that turning a boat does not work well with SI because the boat is moving forward and the beam is going faster on the outside of the arc and reading new material, but it is going slower on the inside and reading some of the same material.

Think of it this way.

Ice fishing (stationary transducer) but the transducer is on a pivotable device that allows me to turn the transducer in a 360 degree circle at a specific, constant  speed.

Would this not give an accurate scan of the bottom of the distance that you were set up to view?
Hate to see her go, but love to watch her leave.

Offline Rickard

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Re: Side Imaging with no movement?
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2009, 03:17:49 AM »
Hi,

I developed a 360 degree method last winter. It was discussed in a rather long thread at the "other" HB forum:
http://www.xumba.scholleco.com/viewtopic.php?t=851&start=30
I think this was the thread Harry couldn't find. It's possible to get very good images from structures through ice this way, but I'm not sure if this method is appropriate for finding fish. Sometimes I see fish this way but they appear as tiny dots like when you move in a straight path with a boat. My avatar is from such a 360 degree image. Note, you cannot see these images on the unit's display, they have to be processed in a computer to be presentable.

Here is an image taken by Strikeback when the boat and transducer is stationary:
http://www.xumba.scholleco.com/viewtopic.php?t=939&highlight=stationary

/Rickard
« Last Edit: November 29, 2009, 08:40:47 AM by Rickard »

Offline keizerh

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Re: Side Imaging with no movement?
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2009, 04:04:18 AM »
Harry,

To understand dutch, will take a course of about 20 years.
There is no such switch it's a way of life.

But very good of you to al least ask for it how to.

Most people just won't and force us in another mode.
This has made us very flex  :)

Daniel
Best regards to Ian form Dutch Hendrik if you call him

Paypal Euro/GBP 0.88......
1197 now GBP 2176,-
UK vat still 15% but going tot 22.5 per january 1.

So call Ian tomorrow!!

Hendrik

« Last Edit: November 29, 2009, 04:12:59 AM by keizerh »

Offline Outek

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Re: Side Imaging with no movement?
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2009, 05:52:41 AM »
Thanks for the answers guys :)

i have another question. Is the 2d mode on the 798c SI Combo as strong as on the 778c?

Thanks

Offline Jolly Roger

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Re: Side Imaging with no movement?
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2009, 11:54:47 AM »
Thanks for helping out Rickard!
That was the thread I coudn't find any more.

Dutch is realy a way of life Hendrik. A bit more easy taking than the German  ;).

There shouldn't be a difference in the 2D sonars Daniel.

Regards / Harry
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Offline George

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Re: Side Imaging with no movement?
« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2009, 04:12:32 PM »
Harry
Thanks for the reply, I understand that using German makes it easier to communicate. 

One thing about this forum is that everybody is here to help, if you need to use a different language then by all means use it, but you might want to consider using both language just encase someone on the forum can help you with answers which can be translated to German. 

A side from that no matter how simple or difficult we all learn from each other.

George


Offline keizerh

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Re: Side Imaging with no movement?
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2009, 04:54:21 PM »
We need more international, multi langual people here.

Remember,
Everybody is more or less dutch in his or her lifestyles.

So at least, everybody has to learn:
English,Spanish, French, German.
For some of us also Dutch (including her 12 dialects).   >:D

Hendrik,

Who is thinking about selling his Simrad CX44E with RB715 radome
Humminbird 1197
XPLORE IX104C2 with WingpsPro and AIS

To buy
Simrad NSE12 with BR24 radar, BSM-1 sounder for the Airmar M260 transducer and LSS1 for Sidescan

Offline Jolly Roger

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Re: Side Imaging with no movement?
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2009, 06:15:24 PM »
Harry
Thanks for the reply, I understand that using German makes it easier to communicate. 

One thing about this forum is that everybody is here to help, if you need to use a different language then by all means use it, but you might want to consider using both language just encase someone on the forum can help you with answers which can be translated to German. 

A side from that no matter how simple or difficult we all learn from each other.

George

You're right George,
I should have used both languages, but sometimes (especially late at night) I just can't get my brains together to translate what I just wrote in German  ??? .

Hendrik, do understand right?
You wanna sell your 1197? Or what's this last sentence meaning?
You just bought it in summer.

Regards / (puzzled) Harry
« Last Edit: November 29, 2009, 06:16:45 PM by Jolly Roger »
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Offline keizerh

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Re: Side Imaging with no movement?
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2009, 01:05:43 AM »
Harry,
At least it is crossing my mind. And only if it means it will be an upgrade.
Remember, I started with a 987 in March or April when G-comm Ian put the last ones on sale.

Hendrik


Offline bob

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Re: Side Imaging with no movement?
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2009, 12:12:57 PM »
The initial question asks if SI works while the boat is stationary, and the answer is yes. The bottom will be blurred, but some of the fish will show up very well. Here is one of many images of fish that swam near my boat. Set the chart speed all the way up, and adjust the distance till you get fish shadows in a "proper" perspective. When fishing in shallow water, there isn't much to see looking straight down with a narrow cone, but SI will give a good idea of what is going on around the boat.

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Offline keizerh

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Re: Side Imaging with no movement?
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2009, 03:21:40 PM »
Great Bob.

I thinks this pic needs no translation.
It's an International picture!

Hendrik

Offline Jolly Roger

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Re: Side Imaging with no movement?
« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2009, 06:25:31 PM »
Excellent shot Bob!!
"A picture says more than thousend words", we say here in Germany.

Actually I haven't though this is possible, because I never used my unit for fishing. Maybe I should get a licence next year and catch some chow on the way to the next wreck  ;D.

Thanks again Bob / Harry
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Offline keizerh

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Re: Side Imaging with no movement?
« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2009, 01:15:13 AM »
"A picture says more than thousend words", we say here in Germany.
----------------------------------------------------------------

Huh?
Harry is overdoing it a bit.
He translated all people of Germany to International versions!

Now the all speak Englisch  8)
Very Kewl

Hendrik

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Re: Side Imaging with no movement?
« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2009, 01:41:43 PM »
For us 'English' speakers whose language skills are not too good a useful addition is the Google toolbar, which automatrically translates the forum page to the chosen language. Saves a lot of hassle if this is added to Explorer.

http://translate.google.com/support/?hl=en

Offline Jolly Roger

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Re: Side Imaging with no movement?
« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2009, 04:40:25 PM »
Aaaarg Hendrik!

"Ein Bild sagt mehr als tausend Worte", is what we say here in Germany, which means in English: " A picture says more than thousand words."

Did I switch the Germans back to German now? Gonna have a Weissbier now.

Prost / Harry
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Offline keizerh

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Re: Side Imaging with no movement?
« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2009, 05:05:55 PM »
For us 'English' speakers whose language skills are not too good a useful addition is the Google toolbar, which automatrically translates the forum page to the chosen language. Saves a lot of hassle if this is added to Explorer.

http://translate.google.com/support/?hl=en


Thats what you think.
Harry and I amongst others know better.


Offline keizerh

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Re: Side Imaging with no movement?
« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2009, 05:10:59 PM »
Aaaarg Hendrik!

"Ein Bild sagt mehr als tausend Worte", is what we say here in Germany, which means in English: " A picture says more than thousand words."

Did I switch the Germans back to German now? Gonna have a Weissbier now.

Prost / Harry


Je suis fier, que je suis multilingue.
Een plaatje zegt meer dan duizend woorden.

And the most important thing:




Offline Outek

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Re: Side Imaging with no movement?
« Reply #30 on: December 02, 2009, 10:25:25 AM »
Hi Guys
Thanks for the picture bob!

i bought the 798c combo, hopefully i can show you soon some pictures of a swarm whitefish(felchen?)  ;D

Offline Jolly Roger

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Re: Side Imaging with no movement?
« Reply #31 on: December 02, 2009, 06:32:49 PM »
Excellent Daniel,
I hope you gonna catch some Felchen and we have a BBQ together one day. You'll bring the fish, I'll bring the beer.

Regards / Harry
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Offline wizzo86

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Re: Side Imaging with no movement?
« Reply #32 on: December 02, 2009, 07:54:54 PM »
let us know when!!!!! Rodert and I will fly in,,,, maybe do some diving I would love to dive some of the wrecks you've been finding.. Before the beer drinking starts that is...lol.

Offline Jolly Roger

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Re: Side Imaging with no movement?
« Reply #33 on: December 03, 2009, 05:02:48 AM »
That would be really cool Wizzo!

"The SIDEIMAGINGSOFT.COM crew diving world tour"....

Regards / Harry


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Offline keizerh

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Re: Side Imaging with no movement?
« Reply #34 on: December 03, 2009, 12:37:58 PM »








I am on my way!

btw, Knock radar Germany on the background of the picture





hendrik

« Last Edit: December 03, 2009, 12:40:42 PM by keizerh »

Offline Jolly Roger

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  • Software: latest (mostly)
  • Accessories: AS GR50, custom towfish and: A boat!!
Re: Side Imaging with no movement?
« Reply #35 on: December 03, 2009, 06:14:08 PM »
Nice boat Hendrik,
looks like you're hauling ass there.

Regards / (speedlimited) Harry
YES,......
WE SCAN!

Offline wizzo86

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Joined: Jun 2009
  • Location: baltimore, Maryland
  • Posts: 111
  • diving in phillapenes
Re: Side Imaging with no movement?
« Reply #36 on: December 03, 2009, 10:24:50 PM »
Nice boat Hendrick. Looks alot like my c hawk


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